FG to just do nothing for the next 5 years.

FrancieBrady

FrancieBrady wrote: »

But you are gonna stick with the government leaders who brought about record crisis in housing and health as well as other fiascos. They have more 'brian cells' apparently.

Government leaders didn’t bring about the housing or health “crises”. Rather total lack of personal responsibility. I want a house, with a garden, two doors down from mammy. What to do? Sleep in a Garda station or in a car, or on steps of council offices. Then get comfy hotel or B&B room(s), moan to any bleeding heart struggling to be relevant political activist, wait a few months and Bobs your uncle. Got what I wanted without having to work for it.
Regarding health, wasn’t it strange how the numbers on trolleys disappeared during the lockdown?
The opposition showed their trust colours by walking out in a strop when they didn’t get their way, despite shouting the loudest.

Bishop of hope

satguy wrote: »

Minister for Justice Helen McEntee has rejected claims that legislation to reform the courts will allow vulture funds and banks get summary judgments against property owners on the basis of hearsay evidence.

Independent TD Mattie McGrath claimed the provision was “designed for vulture funds by their well-paid legal advisers to remove any protections for people from vulture funds”.


read it again.

So Mattie McGrath is you're insight, that's brilliant seeing as what point of view, your coming from.
But as I said, your article doesn't support the claim, just gives his opinion on it.
Helen McEntee claims it doesent, as, she is the minister I'd say her claim is more valid.

James Brown

Bishop of hope wrote: »

Well they'd be right wouldn't they.
What blind pundit would say that covid and brexit weren't detrimental to the Irish economy and indeed its services.
Of course the shameful pay rises didn't endear them to anyone and finding that a 10 percent pay cut actually still leaves them beeter off is a criticism that is valid, as well as Cowen, voting against themselves etc etc.
But anyone that thinks that covid and brexit aren't going to damage Ireland is quite simply not living in the real world.

Agreed in that context.
However what I said was...

They'll likely cynically blame Covid and Brexit for the results of their poor policies but we saw things get worse for a growing number of people before either of them.

McMurphy

Deleted User wrote: »

Government leaders didn’t bring about the housing or health “crises”. Rather total lack of personal responsibility. I want a house, with a garden, two doors down from mammy. What to do? Sleep in a Garda station or in a car, or on steps of council offices. Then get comfy hotel or B&B room(s), moan to any bleeding heart struggling to be relevant political activist, wait a few months and Bobs your uncle. Got what I wanted without having to work for it.
Regarding health, wasn’t it strange how the numbers on trolleys disappeared during the lockdown?
The opposition showed their trust colours by walking out in a strop when they didn’t get their way, despite shouting the loudest.

That's the FG arrogance I was talking about up there. ^^^

Some posters on here try to say "It wasn't arrogance that cost them the election, it was the housing and health crises" and as I pointed out, some FGers insist these crises never existed, which is a level of arrogance in itself.

So yeah, I stand over my assertion that arrogance cost them the election, and arrogance is a trait that is hard to shake.

Bishop of hope

[Deleted User] wrote: »

What if both.their claims are equal??

Given both are elected....otherwise yous are argueing some peoples vote are worth more than others?

Agreed to a point yes.
But Mattie McGrath has no real decision making or in depth input into govt policy.
Therefore as McEntee is a minister and at cabinet, she has input and is responsible for actual policy.
McGrath is not the kind of politician I'd have much dependence on tbh, but hey, if he is your choice of credible spokesman, no foul either.

Muahahaha

Deleted User wrote: »

Government leaders didn’t bring about the housing or health “crises”. Rather total lack of personal responsibility. I want a house, with a garden, two doors down from mammy. What to do? Sleep in a Garda station or in a car, or on steps of council offices. Then get comfy hotel or B&B room(s), moan to any bleeding heart struggling to be relevant political activist, wait a few months and Bobs your uncle. Got what I wanted without having to work for it.
Regarding health, wasn’t it strange how the numbers on trolleys disappeared during the lockdown?
The opposition showed their trust colours by walking out in a strop when they didn’t get their way, despite shouting the loudest.

And there you have it in a single sentence, its the voters fault that they cant afford a house.They need to take personal responsibility for their failures :rolleyes: Nothing to do with Fine Gael rigging the market in favour of vulture funds who enjoy charitable status and pay 1% taxes. Its this kind of warped logic that has seen Fine Gael literally lock an entire generation of young people out of the housing market. A person earning the average salary cannot afford to buy an average priced house anywhere near their place of employment. Their parents before them could (and did) but they cannot because Fine Gael, the party of landlords have pulled up the ladder and only those with huge financial assistance from their parents can now get a foothold on it.

Until Fine Gael realise that and actually go and fix it they will continue to lose elections. They spent 5 years denying the problem even existed, preferring instead to flog to death the tired and battered trope that people just want houses for free. When young people working hard in stable jobs cannot afford houses and have been made into life long renters through no fault of their own then you've got the beginnings of a type of societal breakdown.

Fine Gael would do well to remember that in the election earlier this year Sinn Fein outpolled them in every single age group from 18 to 65. They spent 5 years denying the housing crisis even existed until the electorate rattled them and finally woke them up. If the current governement dont fundamentally fix the housing mess over the next 5 years then they will lose the 18-65 group by even more next time out. Because at that stage the word will be fully out nationwide that a vote for Fine Gael is a vote to prevent your own children from ever being able to afford their own house, something all generations before them could and did achieve.

But sure carry on with the old battered trope that everyone wants a free house, Stick your head in the sand and pretend there is nothing to see here. And at the next election we'll be back here talking about another Fine Gael defeat.

McMurphy

satguy wrote: »

Does anyone really believe Micheál Martin is the real Taoiseach ?

Didn't Sleepy Eamo himself make a ****in deadly slip up the other day with this one. :pac:

https://twitter.com/PeteColeman11/status/1289176208656097280?s=19

Beechwoodspark

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I imagine the 7 people,who died in homeless shelters this week,will haunt them for a lomg time letting it get so bad


In no way is rearing entire families out of hotel rooms for years on end progress or is it partisan to want to fix this










Kudos to simon harris for speaking out in support of fintan warfield tonight though....theres a rake of FG supporters regularly scream homophobe at anyone for daring to critise varadkar...but have disappeared in face of a politian actually receiving homophobic abuse and having to lock down their social media tonight

What ever about the online comments about FW sexuality, he is an absolutely useless senator.

McMurphy

McMurphy wrote: »

That's the FG arrogance I was talking about up there. ^^^

Some posters on here try to say "It wasn't arrogance that cost them the election, it was the housing and health crises" and as I pointed out, some FGers insist these crises never existed, which is a level of arrogance in itself.

So yeah, I stand over my assertion that arrogance cost them the election, and arrogance is a trait that is hard to shake.

I read a book recently where the writer says that in the early 80’s there was a change in people’s behaviour in the Uk, and I’d imagine the same applies here too. He said that the post war values of self reliance had gone. People expect their demands to be met, no matter the cost to others. Some seem to think that they are entitled to a home, healthcare, education etc without having to put much effort into their provision.
I worked hard to provide for my family. Is it arrogant of me to expect others to do similar?

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I read a book recently where the writer says that in the early 80’s there was a change in people’s behaviour in the Uk, and I’d imagine the same applies here too. He said that the post war values of self reliance had gone. People expect their demands to be met, no matter the cost to others. Some seem to think that they are entitled to a home, healthcare, education etc without having to put much effort into their provision

Tbh that just seems like a revisionist,justification for thatcherism (which is itself basically a modern rebrand of laissez-faire,which lead to gorta mor here)

I worked hard to provide for my family. Is it arrogant of me to expect others to do similar?

No....but with 60% plus of households in state having an income of 60K and below and avaerage houseprice for this year just below 300K.....something has to give,as people simply wont get mortgages to buy them,and the rental situation is long term untenable here,given carryon of landlords last few years racheting up rents and even making renting unviable for low to middle income families

James Brown

Just saw Varadkar's bullying speech. This crap from a man gets irate when directly quizzed on policy. He has no business being at the top level in politics if he can't handle debate or criticism. Senior hurling indeed. I expect it was mostly for show. Just makes him look like a gilly.

christy c

McMurphy wrote: »

That's the FG arrogance I was talking about up there. ^^^

Some posters on here try to say "It wasn't arrogance that cost them the election, it was the housing and health crises" and as I pointed out, some FGers insist these crises never existed, which is a level of arrogance in itself.

So yeah, I stand over my assertion that arrogance cost them the election, and arrogance is a trait that is hard to shake.

And I stand over my assertion, that it was health and housing.

Bowie

Bowie wrote: »

Just saw Varadkar's bullying speech. This crap from a man gets irate when directly quizzed on policy. He has no business being at the top level in politics if he can't handle debate or criticism. Senior hurling indeed. I expect it was mostly for show. Just makes him look like a gilly.

Why should independents and small parties get more speaking time? If they used the time they’ve gotten more productively they wouldn’t need more. As it is they spend their time making petty points and then stomping off when they don’t get their own way. Maybe if they spent some time speaking to each other, then their fractured numbers might get a hearing.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Because the media cuts them.off and deosnt allow them air time....have people forgotten the way rte only wanted ffg leaders for election debate

It was wrong then,now the government has just legalised silencing smaller parties and those who dare vote for anyone except them

Are you saying that Paul Murphy, Richard Barrett and various other lefties, both independents and party members, don’t get plenty airtime?
They all seem to have similar aims, so why don’t they get together and form one large group that would guarantee them more speaking time.

James Brown

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Why should independents and small parties get more speaking time? If they used the time they’ve gotten more productively they wouldn’t need more. As it is they spend their time making petty points and then stomping off when they don’t get their own way. Maybe if they spent some time speaking to each other, then their fractured numbers might get a hearing.

Stomping off? Was Varadkar whinging and having a strop. Not your call or Varadkar's as to what points are important.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Not,what i said....but soc dems have an equal number of td to labour,but labour vote with government and get significantly more coverage




Thats their own business really and little to do with government legalising shutting down voices of small parties and those who dare vote for anyone but them?

In what world is it RBB fault for this happening,he isnt member of government,its time for goverenment to accept responsibilty for what they doing and outline reasons,why those who vote for smaller parties/indos arent allowed have their voices heard......trying to shut down the debate and demand they comply with your wishes and almagamte is childish tbh

Debate is not being shut down. Just being divided according to the size of parties rather than independents. At least, that’s my reading of it. Should an independent like Paul Murphy have the same speaking time as Sinn Fein? No.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Yes....everyone should have equal time

What makes vardkar or martin,or eamonn ryan whenever he feels like wakeing up,voters voice more worthy of time than any other TD??

What is logic behind demanding all opposition TDs arent allowed voice their view until all government TDs go 1st.....its only shutting down debate as gives government an excuse to ignore opposition and not reply to them....essentially saying anyone who dare vote for anyone but them,deosnt deserve to have their voice heard.....

Irish "democracy" in 2020,where government effectively legalises shutting down any/all opposition voice

Every TD or every party + independents? As in Michael Lowrey having the same speaking time, eg 15 minutes as all Sinn Fein? SF to have a total of 15 minutes?

Bishop of hope

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Let them.have however long they want,upto 30 mins each TD

Theres no sense to shuting down opposition and denying them right of reply from.the government .......why is it just people who dare not vote FFG that arent allowed a voice in 2020 ireland??

.....its legalised shutting down of opposition,is what it amounts too....no critism allowed of government anymore it seems,only yesmen allowed nowadays......FFG not a normal government,

LOL, up to thirty mins per TD?
When do you think there'd be anything done, 1/2 hour each every fortnight = a 40 hour week Dail.
Jesis, talk a bit of sense

McMurphy

Bishop of hope wrote: »

LOL, up to thirty mins per TD?
When do you think there'd be anything done, 1/2 hour each every fortnight = a 40 hour week Dail.
Jesis, talk a bit of sense

Some of them apparently put in 160hr weeks bish, 30mins of that is something like 0.3% of their working week, should be a doddle to them. :pac:

jimmycrackcorm

Muahahaha wrote: »

And there you have it in a single sentence, its the voters fault that they cant afford a house.They need to take personal responsibility for their failures :rolleyes: Nothing to do with Fine Gael rigging the market in favour of vulture funds who enjoy charitable status and pay 1% taxes. Its this kind of warped logic that has seen Fine Gael literally lock an entire generation of young people out of the housing market. A person earning the average salary cannot afford to buy an average priced house anywhere near their place of employment. Their parents before them could (and did) but they cannot because Fine Gael, the party of landlords have pulled up the ladder and only those with huge financial assistance from their parents can now get a foothold on it.

Until Fine Gael realise that and actually go and fix it they will continue to lose elections. They spent 5 years denying the problem even existed, preferring instead to flog to death the tired and battered trope that people just want houses for free. When young people working hard in stable jobs cannot afford houses and have been made into life long renters through no fault of their own then you've got the beginnings of a type of societal breakdown.

Fine Gael would do well to remember that in the election earlier this year Sinn Fein outpolled them in every single age group from 18 to 65. They spent 5 years denying the housing crisis even existed until the electorate rattled them and finally woke them up. If the current governement dont fundamentally fix the housing mess over the next 5 years then they will lose the 18-65 group by even more next time out. Because at that stage the word will be fully out nationwide that a vote for Fine Gael is a vote to prevent your own children from ever being able to afford their own house, something all generations before them could and did achieve.

But sure carry on with the old battered trope that everyone wants a free house, Stick your head in the sand and pretend there is nothing to see here. And at the next election we'll be back here talking about another Fine Gael defeat.

What is the voters fault is that they're the ones objecting to developments right left and centre. And non-FG politicians are equally as culpable of this also.

Also some people are very fond of giving out about the housing situation but have no solutions to offer other than a blase suggestion to hand out free government built houses no matter the cost.

James Brown

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

What is the voters fault is that they're the ones objecting to developments right left and centre. And non-FG politicians are equally as culpable of this also.

Also some people are very fond of giving out about the housing situation but have no solutions to offer other than a blase suggestion to hand out free government built houses no matter the cost.

We can't afford to use the private market yet we do, for many years now. If we build on our land its cheaper than buying homes which is something we do regular.
We hand out 'free' luxury apartments we lease from private entities.
NIMBYISM is it's own problem. Be it private or social builds.

Truthvader

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Debate is not being shut down. Just being divided according to the size of parties rather than independents. At least, that’s my reading of it. Should an independent like Paul Murphy have the same speaking time as Sinn Fein? No.

He makes as much sense

tobsey

McMurphy wrote: »

Some of them apparently put in 160hr weeks bish, 30mins of that is something like 0.3% of their working week, should be a doddle to them. :pac:

How many of them would you have speaking at the same time?

McMurphy

tobsey wrote: »

How many of them would you have speaking at the same time?

Every. Single. One of them tobsey......

*Woosh*

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Let them.have however long they want,upto 30 mins each TD

Theres no sense to shuting down opposition and denying them right of reply from.the government .......why is it just people who dare not vote FFG that arent allowed a voice in 2020 ireland??

.....its legalised shutting down of opposition,is what it amounts too....no critism allowed of government anymore it seems,only yesmen allowed nowadays......FFG not a normal government,

So, it’s ok in your eyes for a TD appointed at random as Teller for votes, refusing to sign result of vote because they don’t agree with said result? Yesman indeed!

“ During the heated debate Rise TD Paul Murphy and People Before Profit TD Richard Boyd Barrett repeatedly refused to resume their seats. The House was suspended twice in the chaos and disorder.

‘Marginalise’

Mr Murphy said the changes were an attempt to marginalise smaller parties in a bid by Government to dominate parliamentary debate and procedures.

But Mr O’Sullivan said “the system that was put in place doesn’t suit a minority”.

“They still have as far as I can see about 65 per cent or 70 per cent of speaking time.”

“Because they didn’t get their way they chose to behave like a pack of rowdy undergraduates.”

“We had the travesty last night of a person appointed a teller for a vote refusing to sign the result of the vote because it didn’t suit him,” he said in reference to Mr Murphy’s failure to sign.”

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/ff-senator-describes-left-wing-tds-at-centre-of-d%C3%A1il-uproar-as-rowdy-undergraduates-1.4318690

McMurphy

I see Sinn Fein polled higher than FG in the latest opinion polls - meanwhile FF have dropped further yet again.

Six weeks of senior hurling training now needed, that should just be enough time for Heather to get her story straight, Eamon to catch up on much needed slumber and instill some discipline within his troops, and Michaél can have six more weeks pretending to himself that he's a dog, Leo is his tail, and Leo is wagging him furiously.

Worst start to a government in the history of the state, and I don't see things improving anytime soon.

Truthvader

McMurphy wrote: »

I see Sinn Fein polled higher than FG in the latest opinion polls - meanwhile FF have dropped further yet again.

Six weeks of senior hurling training now needed, that should just be enough time for Heather to get her story straight, Eamon to catch up on much needed slumber and instill some discipline within his troops, and Michaél can have six more weeks pretending to himself that he's a dog, Leo is his tail, and Leo is wagging him furiously.

Worst start to a government in the history of the state, and I don't see things improving anytime soon.

Well keeping Sinn Fein / IRA out is a service to us all if nothing else

McMurphy

Truthvader wrote: »

Well keeping Sinn Fein / IRA out is a service to us all if nothing else

Good lad big Ian, you should just stick to getting torn a new one in the Shinner thread, I've been guffawing into my screen for a number of days now at your contradictory posts getting torn asunder.

Internet equivalent of a rodeo clown. It's all the more enjoyable when a poster is completely devoid of self awareness.

Truthvader

McMurphy wrote: »

Good lad big Ian, you should just stick to getting torn a new one in the Shinner thread, I've been guffawing into my screen for a number of days now at your contradictory posts getting torn asunder.

Internet equivalent of a rodeo clown. It's all the more enjoyable when a poster is completely devoid of self awareness.

So bitter when they're caught out

James Brown

[Deleted User] wrote: »

So, it’s ok in your eyes for a TD appointed at random as Teller for votes, refusing to sign result of vote because they don’t agree with said result? Yesman indeed!

“ During the heated debate Rise TD Paul Murphy and People Before Profit TD Richard Boyd Barrett repeatedly refused to resume their seats. The House was suspended twice in the chaos and disorder.

‘Marginalise’

Mr Murphy said the changes were an attempt to marginalise smaller parties in a bid by Government to dominate parliamentary debate and procedures.

But Mr O’Sullivan said “the system that was put in place doesn’t suit a minority”.

“They still have as far as I can see about 65 per cent or 70 per cent of speaking time.”

“Because they didn’t get their way they chose to behave like a pack of rowdy undergraduates.”

“We had the travesty last night of a person appointed a teller for a vote refusing to sign the result of the vote because it didn’t suit him,” he said in reference to Mr Murphy’s failure to sign.”

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/ff-senator-describes-left-wing-tds-at-centre-of-d%C3%A1il-uproar-as-rowdy-undergraduates-1.4318690

You don't like Murphy? Fair enough.
How does Leo cribbing about being bullied and getting into a strop sit? Hardly government business, more showboating even if it had the effect of making him look like he'd no business attempting senior hurling. Also did he need that time for making a fool of himself? Surely less for Leo would benefit FG?