FG to just do nothing for the next 5 years.

beggars_bush

I still wouldn't vote for SF.
Who the feck goes to the funeral of a terrorist?

Bishop of hope

ELM327 wrote: »

Less than 50% of people voted for the opposition parties, more than 50% of people voted for the government we have now. That's how PRSTV works.

That's true and not necessarily true as well.
After the election it was probably the best we were going to get, but it wasn't necessarily the govt people would have voted for if it was laid out on the ballot as being the actual govt option.
They've got to start being more cohesive and somehow stop their individual TD's criticising their cabinet decisions and undermining what should be strong decisions, once they're made.
So far it seems they're prepared to reverse every cabinet decision if there's dissent at all, that makes for very weak govt don't you think?

ELM327

Bishop of hope wrote: »

That's true and not necessarily true as well.
After the election it was probably the best we were going to get, but it wasn't necessarily the govt people would have voted for if it was laid out on the ballot as being the actual govt option.
They've got to start being more cohesive and somehow stop their individual TD's criticising their cabinet decisions and undermining what should be strong decisions, once they're made.
So far it seems they're prepared to reverse every cabinet decision if there's dissent at all, that makes for very weak govt don't you think?

We have never voted for "a government"
You elect representatives. These representatives then are tasked with forming a government, along with electing a taoiseach.


Over 50% of people voted for the representatives that are in government

James Brown

major interest wrote: »

You have no balance in your posting on the pensions issue. The initial proposals for gradual increases in pension age have been in train for years. A lot of work has gone into projecting pensions liabilities into the future in various scenarios.

https://web.actuaries.ie/sites/default/files/story/2020/01/200127%20-%20Press%20Release%20on%20State%20Pension%20Policy%20%28Setanta%20PR%29.pdf

This summarises the actuarial viewpoint on the issue i.e. the people responsible for modelling the future cash flows.

I don’t mind people saying they don’t like the idea of state pension age increasing but at least acknowledge that a lot of thought has gone into the topic (rather than saying it’s a back of the beer mat solution as you suggested).

I'm sure it has. I think you maybe read an fictitious false criticism rather than my comment itself.
I said it was a bad idea that seemed like it was created last minute. That's how poor I think it is.

James Brown

blanch152 wrote: »

So Fine Gael attacked you with made-up claims?

I am not sure what you are trying to say in this post.

You made up the reasoning for the opposition and myself pointing out the flaws in FF/FG whole holiday debacle.
You ranted on and on about it being an insult to workers.
Then when FF/FG themselves corrected themselves, supporting the position, you ran away rather than rant about them insulting the working man etc.
You know this but are hiding.

blanch152

Bowie wrote: »

You made up the reasoning for the opposition and myself pointing out the flaws in FF/FG whole holiday debacle.
You ranted on and on about it being an insult to workers.
Then when FF/FG themselves corrected themselves, supporting the position, you ran away rather than rant about them insulting the working man etc.
You know this but are hiding.

My response is on the relevant thread, but you have missed the point completely.

The provisions in relation to the PUP were introduced before the green list. Now that there is a green-list, they, like everyone else (including public servants) can travel to green-list countries. All detailed with references elsewhere.

Claims of u-turns are wide of the mark, what they were slow to do was clarify when circumstances changed.

What I will keep saying is that anyone on PUP or JSA or JSB (or anyone who supports or defends them) who travels for a holiday to a country not on the green list should have their benefits deducted, and is kicking the frontline workers who have been protecting them in the face. It is a clear insult to people who have put their lives on the line.

Stay at home to save lives.

blanch152

Bowie wrote: »

I'm sure it has. I think you maybe read an fictitious false criticism rather than my comment itself.
I said it was a bad idea that seemed like it was created last minute. That's how poor I think it is.

You can say it is a bad idea, you are entitled to that opinion.

However, that opinion carries little weight when numerous reports at national, European and international level, including EU and OECD, have all recommended or mandated changes to the pension age and said that it is a good idea. I am sure that you will appreciate that it will always be difficult for the unsubstantiated opinion of an anonymous internet poster without any credible alternative to carry any weight versus the considered weight of the EU, the OECD, and various expert national reports, unless the anonymous internet poster sets out a reasonable and reasoned arguable case for the alternative with supporting rationale.

Furthermore, if you state that it "seemed like it was created last minute", you detract even further from your opinion when the facts make it clear that these changes have been planned, discussed and legislated for close to a decade.

James Brown

blanch152 wrote: »

My response is on the relevant thread, but you have missed the point completely.

The provisions in relation to the PUP were introduced before the green list. Now that there is a green-list, they, like everyone else (including public servants) can travel to green-list countries. All detailed with references elsewhere.

Claims of u-turns are wide of the mark, what they were slow to do was clarify when circumstances changed.

What I will keep saying is that anyone on PUP or JSA or JSB (or anyone who supports or defends them) who travels for a holiday to a country not on the green list should have their benefits deducted, and is kicking the frontline workers who have been protecting them in the face. It is a clear insult to people who have put their lives on the line.

Stay at home to save lives.

No it's not. You've been ducking and dodging.
You stated wanting to allow the 'entitlement class' go on holidays was an insult to workers and typical of the left etc. etc. You won't show the honesty of pointing tthe same criticism to FF/FG because they are your team. Its hypocritical is all. Just pointing it out.
Everyone and now FF/FG are on the same page.
That's a u-turn.
As has been made clear to you, the rights of people to travel were the issue and should they be penalised.
I don't think the ban should have been lifted at all.

blanch152

Bowie wrote: »

No it's not. You've been ducking and dodging.
You stated wanting to allow the 'entitlement class' go on holidays was an insult to workers and typical of the left etc. etc. You won't show the honesty of pointing tthe same criticism to FF/FG because they are your team. Its hypocritical is all. Just pointing it out.
Everyone and now FF/FG are on the same page.
That's a u-turn.
As has been made clear to you, the rights of people to travel were the issue and should they be penalised.
I don't think the ban should gave been lifted at all.

Stop misrepresenting my posts and making up things that I have said.

I have consistently objected to non-essential travel abroad to countries not on the green list and supported the provisions that require public servants to quarantine on their own time (unpaid if they have no annual leave left) and supported the provisions that deduct social welfare payments where recipients travel in such cases. All of those provisions remain in place.

I have never objected to essential travel abroad to any country or to any travel to countries on the green list.

If you want to allow social welfare recipients go on holidays to Ibiza and Magaluf and come back and infect us all with no possibility of penalty, man up and say that, don't hide behind attacking Fine Gael.

satguy

How can Micheál Martin stand by while Leo just gives Simon Coveney a state car and a Garda driver.

If he had any backbone at all, Leo would never have been able to make Micheál his lapdog. Can you imagine what CJ would have said.
Would Leo have even had the balls to ask ? I don't think so.

FF are puppets now, Leo and FG are still calling the shots.

Heather Humphreys is FG true and true, Just look at the mess she is making.

The FG wide boys see a weak FF with a weak leader, and this gives them the upper hand.

christy c

satguy wrote: »

How can Micheál Martin stand by while Leo just gives Simon Coveney a state car and a Garda driver.

If he had any backbone at all, Leo would never have been able to make Micheál his lapdog. Can you imagine what CJ would have said.
Would Leo have even had the balls to ask ? I don't think so.

FF are puppets now, Leo and FG are still calling the shots.

Heather Humphreys is FG true and true, Just look at the mess she is making.

The FG wide boys see a weak FF with a weak leader, and this gives them the upper hand.

I thought Denis O'Brien was calling the shots? Can you at least keep your conspiracy theories consistent?

satguy

christy c wrote: »

Can you at least keep your conspiracy theories consistent?

How can it be a conspiracy theory, it's on the news, Leo did give Simon Coveney a car and Garda driver.

It's only a conspiracy theory when it's not true,, that's how it works.

James Brown

blanch152 wrote: »

Stop misrepresenting my posts and making up things that I have said.

I have consistently objected to non-essential travel abroad to countries not on the green list and supported the provisions that require public servants to quarantine on their own time (unpaid if they have no annual leave left) and supported the provisions that deduct social welfare payments where recipients travel in such cases. All of those provisions remain in place.

I have never objected to essential travel abroad to any country or to any travel to countries on the green list.

If you want to allow social welfare recipients go on holidays to Ibiza and Magaluf and come back and infect us all with no possibility of penalty, man up and say that, don't hide behind attacking Fine Gael.

You are talking about another angle here.
While people were criticising the bending of rules by FF/FG to unfairly penalise PUP and SW recipients, you ranted that it was typical of the left/opposition parties to look after the 'entitlement class' to allow them go on holidays and how it was an insult to workers. A false made up claim you failed to back up.
Now FF/FG are also supporting their (PUP/SW) right to travel without being penalised...not a peep. Hypocritical.

christy c

satguy wrote: »

How can it be a conspiracy theory, it's on the news, Leo did give Simon Coveney a car and Garda driver.

It's only a conspiracy theory when it's not true,, that's how it works.

The conspiracy theory I was referring to was that Denis was calling the shots/the boss. Now it's Leo calling the shots.

blanch152

Bowie wrote: »

You are talking about another angle here.
While people were criticising the bending of rules by FF/FG to unfairly penalise PUP and SW recipients, you ranted that it was typical of the left/opposition parties to look after the 'entitlement class' to allow them go on holidays and how it was an insult to workers. A false made up claim you failed to back up.
Now FF/FG are also supporting their (PUP/SW) right to travel without being penalised...not a peep. Hypocritical.

I have made my position clear, absolutely clear, nothing hypocritical about it at all. I stand over every point that I have made as my opinion.

It remains my opinion that the comments of the opposition, and of Paul Murphy in particular, were designed to look after the entitlement class and were an insult to workers. How that "opinion" is a "false claim" is beyond me.

Your posts keep trying to paint a picture of me and others as being FG shills or something apparently as part of some weird obsessional crusade, that is increasingly hard to understand, especially when you don't seem to be able to distinguish between opinion, conspiracy theory, and fact.

id leave this thread to the ...... well, yknow

no point arguing with him/them

James Brown

blanch152 wrote: »

I have made my position clear, absolutely clear, nothing hypocritical about it at all. I stand over every point that I have made as my opinion.

It remains my opinion that the comments of the opposition, and of Paul Murphy in particular, were designed to look after the entitlement class and were an insult to workers. How that "opinion" is a "false claim" is beyond me.

Your posts keep trying to paint a picture of me and others as being FG shills or something apparently as part of some weird obsessional crusade, that is increasingly hard to understand, especially when you don't seem to be able to distinguish between opinion, conspiracy theory, and fact.

It was about FF/FG bending rules and being called out on it. You claimed various entities were willing to put health at risk.

blanch152 wrote: »

It's a real eye-opener indeed when you see the likes of PBP, ICCL, and the DPC all willing to put public health at risk so that social welfare recipients can go on holidays while the ordinary working man had to take his holidays in his own house during lockdown. Unbelievable the way that people will defend stuff like that.

Now FF/FG support that criticism with the u-turn, you don't have the same bile for FF/FG.

I am not trying anything. You change your stance based on whatever FF/FG are saying or doing that day. Pointing it out on this.
My posts regarding you are quoted and on topics posted, you are the one to go off the rails and make things up. I said I would not support travel by anyone and you responded claiming I was supporting SW/PUP recipients going abroad.

I posted:

Bowie wrote: »

You'd inform them you were leaving the country in advance.
I agree though I wouldn't support it.
On the covid payments if you job is shut down I've no problem with them taking a holiday.
However, nobody should be leaving Ireland.

They've some neck they really do. They've zero moral authority to be looking down on anyone.

You responded:

blanch152 wrote: »

If a nurse, civil servant, teacher or guard goes on holidays, they have to quarantine on their own time, most likely with a loss of money because it will be unpaid because they have used their leave for the holiday part. Yet, you are here defending the social welfare recipients, says it all about the left and the way that they have abandoned workers to support the non-workers and the never-workers.

Complete par for the course misrepresentation.

James Brown

Deleted User wrote: »

id leave this thread to the ...... well, yknow

no point arguing with him/them

You spend a lot of time posting in this thread on why we shouldn't be posting in this thread.

I'm still willing to hear him out.

blanch152

Bowie wrote: »

It was about FF/FG bending rules and being called out on it. You claimed various entities were willing to put health at risk.



Now FF/FG support that criticism with the u-turn, you don't have the same bile for FF/FG.

.

Ah, I see, you are not interested in debating the topic at hand. You only want to discuss how FF/FG can be criticised, who is criticising them, how much they should be criticised, and whether people who didn't criticise them should criticise them. Really not interested in going down that road.

Am only focussing on whether people should be allowed go abroad and whether they should be penalised if they do go abroad. I am happy to see people prevented from non-essential travel to destinations not on the green list and penalised if they do break those guidelines, whether they are public servants or social welfare recipients or anyone else falling under government jurisdiction. I would hope that private sector employers would similarly act.

Brendan Bendar

blanch152 wrote: »

Ah, I see, you are not interested in debating the topic at hand. You only want to discuss how FF/FG can be criticised, who is criticising them, how much they should be criticised, and whether people who didn't criticise them should criticise them. Really not interested in going down that road.

Am only focussing on whether people should be allowed go abroad and whether they should be penalised if they do go abroad. I am happy to see people prevented from non-essential travel to destinations not on the green list and penalised if they do break those guidelines, whether they are public servants or social welfare recipients or anyone else falling under government jurisdiction. I would hope that private sector employers would similarly act.

All these guys, Blanch, are interested in is trying to throw shade on everything the govt. do.

When the vagaries of their parent party are pointed out they go all po-faced and start flapping around the place.

They have a guy who exults in having ‘broken the State’ in a senior position.

How in fchurrkes name could anyone trust that lot.

It’s a joke.

James Brown

blanch152 wrote: »

Ah, I see, you are not interested in debating the topic at hand. You only want to discuss how FF/FG can be criticised, who is criticising them, how much they should be criticised, and whether people who didn't criticise them should criticise them. Really not interested in going down that road.

Am only focussing on whether people should be allowed go abroad and whether they should be penalised if they do go abroad. I am happy to see people prevented from non-essential travel to destinations not on the green list and penalised if they do break those guidelines, whether they are public servants or social welfare recipients or anyone else falling under government jurisdiction. I would hope that private sector employers would similarly act.

On the contrary, I was discussing the topic at hand and you start making false claims. So now both FF/FG and the opposition are singing from the same hymn sheet I'm simply trying to see are you genuine and going to show the same ire to FF/FG. It's important to know if people are giving genuine opinions IMO.
It's a no, based on all your efforts thus far.
I'll leave it there on this. I explained my reasoning and you yours, kind of.

Muahahaha

Meanwhile Sean Kelly in Fine Gael is trying to blame Catherine Noone for their disastrous election result. Nothing about the previous nine years of messing up housing and health, its Catherine Noone wot done it :rolleyes:

Fine Gael blames poor election result on series of pre-poll gaffesSeán Kelly MEP singles out Catherine Noone controversy at party postmortem meeting.


A series of gaffes prior to and during the general election cost Fine Gael at the polls, a meeting of the parliamentary party has been told.
Ministers and Ministers of State held discussions reviewing the party’s general election performance on Tuesday ahead of a further meeting of the entire parliamentary party on Wednesday evening.
At the meeting, Tánaiste Leo Varadkar discussed Fine Gael’s timing of the election with sources saying he acknowledged the party could have maximised on its Brexit successes at earlier stages than February of this year, and perhaps called the election sooner.


Seán Kelly MEP is understood to have pointed towards a number of gaffes that were made before and during the election campaign as well the issue around the planned increase in the pension age and cuts to the disability sector. Sources present say that he also singled out comments made by former senator Catherine Noone about Mr Varadkar during the campaign.


Ms Noone, who was elected to the Seanad after failing to win a Dáil seat in 2016, said “he’s autistic like, he’s on the spectrum, there’s no doubt about it. He’s uncomfortable socially and he doesn’t always get the in-between bits”. She apologised for the comments after they were published.



Fine Gael was the largest party in the 32nd Dáil but returned with just 35 deputies, 15 fewer than in 2016. It was the party’s second worst election result

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/fine-gael-blames-poor-election-result-on-series-of-pre-poll-gaffes-1.4317127



Ouch

James Brown

Muahahaha wrote: »

Meanwhile Sean Kelly in Fine Gael is trying to blame Catherine Noone for their disastrous election result. Nothing about the previous nine years of messing up housing and health, its Catherine Noone wot done it :rolleyes:



https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/fine-gael-blames-poor-election-result-on-series-of-pre-poll-gaffes-1.4317127



Ouch

At least they aren't blaming the general public for getting it wrong

smurgen

Fair play to Coveney. More of this please .

https://twitter.com/simoncoveney/status/1288885973477187584?s=19

James Brown

smurgen wrote: »

Fair play to Coveney. More of this please .

https://twitter.com/simoncoveney/status/1288885973477187584?s=19

Always liked him for his stance on this.

Brendan Bendar

Lot of anger here lately...

The roaring and shouting from the lefties in the Dáil was disgraceful.

The Tainiste fairly laid into them, accusing them of bullying ‘ here and on social media’ ‘ roaring and shouting every time a govt rep. tries to speak’.

Any sensible person can see he is correct there.

That said... Ryan bottled it on Hourigan and that scone O’Brien- barely a month elected and causing trouble already.

Tough times ahead, the bullhorn boys will be operating on the lithium batteries to keep the negativity maxed out.

JohnnyFlash

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Lot of anger here lately...

The roaring and shouting from the lefties in the Dáil was disgraceful.

The Tainiste fairly laid into them, accusing them of bullying ‘ here and on social media’ ‘ roaring and shouting every time a govt rep. tries to speak’.

Any sensible person can see he is correct there.

That said... Ryan bottled it on Hourigan and that scone O’Brien- barely a month elected and causing trouble already.

Tough times ahead, the bullhorn boys will be operating on the lithium batteries to keep the negativity maxed out.

Not sure the online outrage is resonating with people, Brendan. Too much, too early. It’s the political equivalent of shooting the load into the y-fronts while taking off your chinos.

There’s a percentage of people who seem to think here, Twitter comments, and and the Journal are representative of Frank and Fionnuala Floating Voter. Newsflash - it ain’t.

blanch152

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Lot of anger here lately...

The roaring and shouting from the lefties in the Dáil was disgraceful.

The Tainiste fairly laid into them, accusing them of bullying ‘ here and on social media’ ‘ roaring and shouting every time a govt rep. tries to speak’.

Any sensible person can see he is correct there.

That said... Ryan bottled it on Hourigan and that scone O’Brien- barely a month elected and causing trouble already.

Tough times ahead, the bullhorn boys will be operating on the lithium batteries to keep the negativity maxed out.

About time someone called them out for their behaviour.

Brendan Bendar

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Not sure the online outrage is resonating with people, Brendan. Too much, too early. It’s the political equivalent of shooting the load into the y-fronts while taking off your chinos.

There’s a percentage of people who seem to think here, Twitter comments, and and the Journal are representative of Frank and Fionnuala Floating Voter. Newsflash - it ain’t.

Agree there John, I was just quoting the Táiniste and he did mention it.

As I have often state, Middle Ireland don’t visit these outlets in large numbers, it’s just the hard core trotter that pumps the crud in 7/24.

If one has a lifestyle which is dominated by what’s said on these pages one could get a skewed view of things for sure and maybe believe the Trotters are semi-credible.



As an aside John, y-fronts are so 70s, prefer the CKs with the vented gusset and the ‘QuikRelease’ flap.

No danger of ‘ blue on blue’.

Bishop of hope

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Lot of anger here lately...

The roaring and shouting from the lefties in the Dáil was disgraceful.

The Tainiste fairly laid into them, accusing them of bullying ‘ here and on social media’ ‘ roaring and shouting every time a govt rep. tries to speak’.

Any sensible person can see he is correct there.

That said... Ryan bottled it on Hourigan and that scone O’Brien- barely a month elected and causing trouble already.

Tough times ahead, the bullhorn boys will be operating on the lithium batteries to keep the negativity maxed out.

Absolutely agree on this one Brendan.
Murphy and Boyd-Barrett, their masks should be used to gag them and Leo correctly called them out quite forcefully and correctly.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/d%C3%A1il-suspended-twice-after-tds-roar-at-each-other-over-speaking-rights-1.4317975?mode=amp