FG to just do nothing for the next 5 years.

Mortelaro

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

Fine Gael and their supporters. This thread is about FG, why would i be talking about anyone else?

So FG and their supporters are responsible for what decision exactly that caused covid 19 deaths in nursing homes
Be as precise as you can

Brendan Bendar

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

Fine Gael and their supporters. This thread is about FG, why would i be talking about anyone else?

Probably because as usual they do nothing except live in the past?

StackSteevens

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Govern?

They messed up and it probably cost lies.

People will accept that mistakes happen..I think Irish people are reasonable, the Rugby match and Cheltenham can be put down to usual government incompetence and slowly forgotten.

But already we see FG heading down a familiar arrogant rabbithole over Nursing Homes.
The knives are out here among the FG apologists already for anyone but guess who.
Real people, loved as much as anyone else died there...did they die prematurely and needlessly? I think we will find out, they won't be forgotten as ordinary normal incompetence and dithering.

Evidently Francie is one of the SF intellectuals who believes that desperately scarce PPE should have been diveted from front line workers in public hospitals to private nursing homes.

Curiously, I'm unable to find Louise O'Reilly's Press Release demanding that this immediately be done on the SF website. Perhaps Francie can assist?

FrancieBrady

StackSteevens wrote: »

Evidently Francie is one of the SF intellectuals who believes that desperately scarce PPE should have been diveted from front line workers in public hospitals to private nursing homes.

Curiously, I'm unable to find Louise O'Reilly's Press Release demanding that this immediately be done on the SF website. Perhaps Francie can assist?

All I have said is that what happened in the Nursing Homes needs to be inquired into.
If the FG boys and girls led by defence barrister in chief, Fergus O'Dowd could lay off the 'it wasn't our fault, look at the Shinners' stuff, we might find out.

Mortelaro

I don't know what Fergus o'Dowd said about the Shinners
What I do know is at the start of the crisis hospitals world wide were hard set to get PPE never mind nursing homes
Once covid was in there,disaster to be fair

Some posters here are dredging the internet grasping at easily debunked straws to try hurl political football from the ditch
I'd expect that not to fly when the dust settles and this is over because people have sense

dundalkfc10

Mortelaro wrote: »

So FG and their supporters are responsible for what decision exactly that caused covid 19 deaths in nursing homes
Be as precise as you can

Well FG were in government, didnt even bother replying when nursing homes raised issues. So somebody in Govt is partially to blame.

Dont worry it will all come out, this wont be just brushed under the carpet as usual.

dundalkfc10

Mortelaro wrote: »

I don't know what Fergus o'Dowd said about the Shinners
What I do know is at the start of the crisis hospitals world wide were hard set to get PPE never mind nursing homes
Once covid was in there,disaster to be fair

Some posters here are dredging the internet grasping at easily debunked straws to try hurl political football from the ditch
I'd expect that not to fly when the dust settles and this is over because people have sense

You only seem to know about things that suit your argument

Fair enough it was hard to get, does that mean they were correct just not to reply at all to Nursing Homes etc?

FrancieBrady

Mortelaro wrote: »

I don't know what Fergus o'Dowd said about the Shinners
What I do know is at the start of the crisis hospitals world wide were hard set to get PPE never mind nursing homes
Once covid was in there,disaster to be fair

Some posters here are dredging the internet grasping at easily debunked straws to try hurl political football from the ditch
I'd expect that not to fly when the dust settles and this is over because people have sense

Posters are listening to this being discussed...in the media.

Stop trying to deny there is an issue here. TBH, whatever about SF, I wouldn't like Roisin Shortall and Catherine Byrne on my case. It won't be let go until the answer are gotten.

Mortelaro

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

You only seem to know about things that suit your argument

Fair enough it was hard to get, does that mean they were correct just not to reply at all to Nursing Homes etc?

I dont know
Some private nursing homes got on great others didn't
Why was that?

efanton

Mortelaro wrote: »

I don't know what Fergus o'Dowd said about the Shinners
What I do know is at the start of the crisis hospitals world wide were hard set to get PPE never mind nursing homes
Once covid was in there,disaster to be fair

Some posters here are dredging the internet grasping at easily debunked straws to try hurl political football from the ditch
I'd expect that not to fly when the dust settles and this is over because people have sense

But surely that was the problem.

Nursing homes for the elderly and disabled ARE part of our health service, as are our metal institutions and maternity hospitals. Many of them are private or charity run, but they still provide services to our national health system.

How a health minister could suddenly forget about a large proportion of the essential services that provide health care is frankly unforgivable.

Mortelaro

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Posters are listening to this being discussed...in the media.

Stop trying to deny there is an issue here. TBH, whatever about SF, I wouldn't like Roisin Shortall and Catherine Byrne on my case. It won't be let go until the answer are gotten.

I'm not denying the issue,I'm disputing your attempt at political football with the issue
If mainstream parties as opposed to online fan clubs get up to that,given how straightforward the reasons for issues were at the start,I'd expect them to be roundly shown up as wrong and criticized

IAmTheReign

StackSteevens wrote: »

Evidently Francie is one of the SF intellectuals who believes that desperately scarce PPE should have been diveted from front line workers in public hospitals to private nursing homes.

Curiously, I'm unable to find Louise O'Reilly's Press Release demanding that this immediately be done on the SF website. Perhaps Francie can assist?

This is what I find strange about the whole nursing home situation. Obviously any unnecessary deaths are a tragedy, that goes without saying, but would people have been happier if manpower and equipment had been diverted from hospitals to nursing homes? Imagine the headlines if they had!

FG Government caught diverting medical resources from public hospitals to private care facilities

It's inevitable that when there's limited resources tough decisions need to be made about where those resources go and that those decisions are going to negatively impact on someone. Personally I think FG have done an admirable job of managing what is an unprecedented crisis.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

All I have said is that what happened in the Nursing Homes needs to be inquired into.
If the FG boys and girls led by defence barrister in chief, Fergus O'Dowd could lay off the 'it wasn't our fault, look at the Shinners' stuff, we might find out.

Ah come on, you can't get away with lying about what you posted only a few short posts ago.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Govern?

They messed up and it probably cost lies.

Stop pretending to be some sort of distant onlooker taking an objective view.

Mortelaro

efanton wrote: »

How a health minister could suddenly forget about a large proportion of the essential services that provide health care is frankly unforgivable.

That's been put to posters here already,they answered what did you expect, scarce resources diverted from hospitals?
The pandemic is the most contagious and deadly virus ever to hit this country in modern times
The virus I'm afraid didn't send an email saying it what it was going to do in western Europe a year ago
We all had about 6 weeks notice at best

blanch152

efanton wrote: »

But surely that was the problem.

Nursing homes for the elderly and disabled ARE part of our health service, as are our metal institutions and maternity hospitals. Many of them are private or charity run, but they still provide services to our national health system.

How a health minister could suddenly forget about a large proportion of the essential services that provide health care is frankly unforgivable.

Rubbish.

As had been clear from the start, if the owners of nursing homes had done their job properly, adequately prepared, and managed their staff correctly, the problem would have been much less.

The passing of the buck by those owners, gleefully seized upon by the Sinn Fein Twitterati is not very edifying.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

Ah come on, you can't get away with lying about what you posted only a few short posts ago.



Stop pretending to be some sort of distant onlooker taking an objective view.

Nobody is denying that Nursing Homes were messed up...that's a given at this stage.

Did it cost lives? That's what we need to inquire into and who is at fault for that.
I'm far from a distant onlooker, like many.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

Rubbish.

As had been clear from the start, if the owners of nursing homes had done their job properly, adequately prepared, and managed their staff correctly, the problem would have been much less.

The passing of the buck by those owners, gleefully seized upon by the Sinn Fein Twitterati is not very edifying.

What about Simon 'I didn't see the letter' Harris when you mention 'passing the buck?

efanton

IAmTheReign wrote: »

This is what I find strange about the whole nursing home situation. Obviously any unnecessary deaths are a tragedy, that goes without saying, but would people have been happier if manpower and equipment had been diverted from hospitals to nursing homes? Imagine the headlines if they had!



It's inevitable that when there's limited resources tough decisions need to be made about where those resources go and that those decisions are going to negatively impact on someone. Personally I think FG have done an admirable job of managing what is an unprecedented crisis.

Yes I would, because the PPE would have been where it was most likely to be needed, protecting those that were the most susceptible to the virus.

I understand your concern about limited resources, and it is a valid point.
But what happened is nothing to do with budgeting or limiting resources and manpower, it was simply that the nursing homes and other healthcare facilities didnt even come into the equations until we started having mass deaths in them.

What I also could not understand is once we had confirmed deaths and cases in these facilities why there was not immediate testing of all residents and staff, and immediate segregation of those residents that had covid by using the private hospitals that were lying virtually empty.

If they had done the testing and moved all those with the virus into the private hospitals then it would have been easier to manage the scarcity of PPE because you could concentrate on delivering it to the place where the covid patients were and not every hospital and nursing home in the country.
With a regular testing regime in the nursing homes it would have been possible to target where PPE was sent.

It was little to do with tough decisions, more to do with a complete feck up on the health ministers part.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Nobody is denying that Nursing Homes were messed up...that's a given at this stage.

Did it cost lives? That's what we need to inquire into and who is at fault for that.
I'm far from a distant onlooker, like many.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Govern?

They messed up and it probably cost lies.

Again, stop denying what you posted. You clearly pointed the finger at the Fine Gael government, so stop pretending you are neutrally looking for answers.

Deaths in nursing homes were inevitable, deaths in hospitals were inevitable, deaths in the community were inevitable. Using deaths as a political stick is typical of Sinn Fein republicanism, but show a little bit of decorum.

StackSteevens

FrancieBrady wrote: »

All I have said is that what happened in the Nursing Homes needs to be inquired into.
If the FG boys and girls led by defence barrister in chief, Fergus O'Dowd could lay off the 'it wasn't our fault, look at the Shinners' stuff, we might find out.

People died Francie, that's what happened.

But surely not even the most deluded SF foot soldier genuinely believes that everyone who is put into a nursing home is going to come out alive?

The simple fact is that you and your fellow SF bots are tapdancing and prancing all over over the corpses of the nursing home dead in an attempt to score a political point. Utterly contemptible, but absolutely predictable from Sinn Fein.

(I suspect that, deep down some of you are secretly a bit disappointed that Mary Lou pulled through - just imagine the propaganda value of a deceased leader "murdered by FG and the HSE".)

blanch152

efanton wrote: »

Yes I would, because the PPE would have been where it was most likely to be needed, protecting those that were the most susceptible to the virus.

I understand your concern about limited resources, and it is a valid point.
But what happened is nothing to do with budgeting or limiting resources and manpower, it was simply that the nursing homes and other healthcare facilities didnt even come into the equations until we started having mass deaths in them.

What I also could not understand is once we had confirmed deaths and cases in these facilities why there was not immediate testing of all residents and staff, and immediate segregation of those residents that had covid by using the private hospitals that were lying virtually empty.

If they had done the testing and moved all those with the virus into the private hospitals then it would have been easier to manage the scarcity of PPE because you could concentrate on delivering it to the place where the covid patients were and not every hospital and nursing home in the country.
With a regular testing regime in the nursing homes it would have been possible to target where PPE was sent.

It was little to do with tough decisions, more to do with a complete feck up on the health ministers part.

Using your expertise, which you clearly have in abundance, given your commentary on the subject, can you advise us of the number of deaths that would have occurred in the community and in hospitals that would have occurred if the limited amount of testing resources had been diverted to address the issues in nursing homes?

Can you explain to us the risk parameters that you considered for the moving of all Covid-19 patients to private hospitals? In particular, can you explain to us how many more people would have died in those private hospitals given the relative scarcity of ICUs in the private hospitals?

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

Again, stop denying what you posted. You clearly pointed the finger at the Fine Gael government, so stop pretending you are neutrally looking for answers.

Deaths in nursing homes were inevitable, deaths in hospitals were inevitable, deaths in the community were inevitable. Using deaths as a political stick is typical of Sinn Fein republicanism, but show a little bit of decorum.

Except it isn't just SF looking for answers.

Keep handwaving away with that cold uncaring FG arrogance. But it isn't going away.

Like many others I have skin in the game here and it won't be put to onside while Simon et al do the victory parades.

Was it a serious botch job and could it have been avoided.

FrancieBrady

StackSteevens wrote: »

(I suspect that, deep down some of you are secretly a bit disappointed that Mary Lou pulled through - just imagine the propaganda value of a deceased leader "murdered by FG and the HSE".)

If you wanted a signal as to what the agenda is here, there you have it.

Enda, pointing over there, in overdrive. We've seen it all before, and we've seen what the outcome was to this arrogance.

efanton

blanch152 wrote: »

Using your expertise, which you clearly have in abundance, given your commentary on the subject, can you advise us of the number of deaths that would have occurred in the community and in hospitals that would have occurred if the limited amount of testing resources had been diverted to address the issues in nursing homes?

Can you explain to us the risk parameters that you considered for the moving of all Covid-19 patients to private hospitals? In particular, can you explain to us how many more people would have died in those private hospitals given the relative scarcity of ICUs in the private hospitals?

I dont profess to have expertise.
Neither did the health minster require it, he is surrounded by experts, all he needed was to manage in general and make sure all the services that provide healthcare were accounted for in any plan related to the Covid crisis

There is only 25,000 residents in all the nursing homes in the entire country, so testing for all of them would have been easily possible, even easier if you split that amount over 4 weeks, and repeated that every month or two.
Are you suggesting that this was impossible to do even at that time?

Are you suggesting that once one resident had covid in a nursing home they were not responsible to the transmittal of the virus to other residents?
If you had have segregated those residents with the virus as soon as possible then is it not reasonable to assume that less residents would have got the virus in the first place, and ultimately less residents would have died?

there were no ICU's in these residential homes either, your point about no ICU's in private hospitals is pretty moot. Just because an elderly person has covid there is nothing to suggest that they would all need ICU care. I would imagine it is as easy to transfer a patient from a private hospital to an ICU unit as it would be from a residential home, if that need arose.

James Brown

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Brought home FG's lowest ever result I think too. FF down to their lowest in the polls.
And their vote share down to 44% from a high of 84%
Do you think the public are trying to get a message through Bowie but the lads and lassies ain't listening regardless.

The responses on here show FG failed and tired strategy. FG get criticised, FG look to other parties and to insult any member of the public voted for those parties, rather than doing the sensible adult thing of looking at themselves and their policies. For all FF's faults and there are many, they were always cute enough to put their hands up and claim they changed, (although they never).

FrancieBrady wrote: »

If you wanted a signal as to what the agenda is here, there you have it.

Enda, pointing over there, in overdrive. We've seen it all before, and we've seen what the outcome was to this arrogance.

He's not alone sadly:

markodaly wrote: »

Id say deep down you are delighted that more Irish people are dying than Kiwi's

We'd one chap make light of her (MLM) self quarantining being over the top and we'd another chap surmise that both MLM and Tubridy might be pretending for PR purposes.

Anything but discuss FG and their woeful governing and miserable tenure in office.

Bishop of hope

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Except it isn't just SF looking for answers.

Keep handwaving away with that cold uncaring FG arrogance. But it isn't going away.

Like many others I have skin in the game here and it won't be put to onside while Simon et al do the victory parades.

Was it a serious botch job and could it have been avoided.

What do you think yourself, your questioning it.
Is that from a neutral standpoint or from a bit of an opinion already formed?
Personally I think it was an oversight that got caught up in the mix of so much that was going on and when it was realised that because of the infirm condition of nearly all residents it was too late and the virus had gotten hold in a lot of care homes.
Equally I can't help but wonder how some care homes escaped almost entirely without a case so far.
That implies to me that some care homes management and staff were more vigilant and up to speed than others perhaps too.
I would stop far from accusing any one of wrong doing, just that from the minister right down to the cleaning services, the fact that the whole world was seeking the much needed equipment and resources.
Hospitals obviously were dealing with much more staff and patients for all illnesses, not just covid, and through traffic than care homes and obviously were going to be the major places for the risk of spread of the virus community wise. So when available hospitals were obviously going to be eating up the bulk of the supplies.

dundalkfc10

StackSteevens wrote: »

People died Francie, that's what happened.

But surely not even the most deluded SF foot soldier genuinely believes that everyone who is put into a nursing home is going to come out alive?

The simple fact is that you and your fellow SF bots are tapdancing and prancing all over over the corpses of the nursing home dead in an attempt to score a political point. Utterly contemptible, but absolutely predictable from Sinn Fein.

(I suspect that, deep down some of you are secretly a bit disappointed that Mary Lou pulled through - just imagine the propaganda value of a deceased leader "murdered by FG and the HSE".)

:eek::eek:

Your a ****ing disgrace of a human. God help anyone who loves you

debok

The simple truth about Ireland is that every scandal , industrial schools, Magdeline laundries, scouts, priest paedophilies, cervical cancer scandal, baby's buried,Anglo Irish collapse ,gardai whistleblower scandal etc was done under the watch of either a FF or fg led government. Every single thing. So if ye want to back them and only talk about the good they have done please acknowledge the bad stuff too.

Bishop of hope

debok wrote: »

The simple truth about Ireland is that every scandal , industrial schools, Magdeline laundries, scouts, priest paedophilies, cervical cancer scandal, baby's buried,Anglo Irish collapse ,gardai whistleblower scandal etc was done under the watch of either a FF or fg led government. Every single thing. So if ye want to back them and only talk about the good they have done please acknowledge the bad stuff too.

Name a country that bad stuff hasn't happened in under any Govt, just a rant and of course any bad stuff that happened in the Republic was under either or.

smurgen

Shefwedfan wrote: »

To be honest, I would take Harris word on this topic

The guy who saying there was Covid 18?