FG to just do nothing for the next 5 years.

FrancieBrady

tobsey wrote: »

That was Bowie’s, or Matt Barrett's favourite line on these threads, that FG made FF electable and that was somehow damning on FG. In fact FF’s vote didn’t really grow at all in the latest election. They bounced back a bit in 2016 from their wipeout in 2011 but have stagnated since. The biggest gains by far were by SF, so if anything FG’s performance boosted SF. I’d have thought you’d be happy with that. Why you’re saying FG’s losses are a benefit to FF is strange. The numbers don’t support that.

FF should have been dead and buried in 2011. But FG couldn't afford to do that because it would then be a straight fight between them and SF.

So they rehabilitated the other party of the power swap. FF should have went the way of the PD's before them - redundant, irrelevant and toxic.

SF did it the hard way with both FF and FG trying to take them down.

Mortelaro

Fianna Fáil aren't going anywhere
Arch supporter Fionnan Sheehan is editor of the Irish independent and is busy converting it to the new Irish Press

FrancieBrady

Mortelaro wrote: »

Fianna Fáil aren't going anywhere
Arch supporter Fionnan Sheehan is editor of the Irish independent and is busy converting it to the new Irish Press

No, they aren't going anywhere. Like dock weed you have to keep it cut back or it will just get stronger.

Bass Reeves

FrancieBrady wrote: »

FF should have been dead and buried in 2011. But FG couldn't afford to do that because it would then be a straight fight between them and SF.

So they rehabilitated the other party of the power swap. FF should have went the way of the PD's before them - redundant, irrelevant and toxic.

SF did it the hard way with both FF and FG trying to take them down.

What a load.of Baloney. It was Labour that saved FF. In there rush to be part of the government in 2011 they made unsustainable promises, remember the Labour way or the Frankfurt way. If labour has not over promised they would have been the main opposition party from 2011- whenever, it is likely that if FG had the numbers to form a government by itself it would have only lasted 3-4 years not 5. Labour would have stormed into power and SF would still be only a party of 10ishTDs

Instead labour left an open gate to both SF and FF.you should be thanking Gilmore and Rabbit

FrancieBrady

Bass Reeves wrote: »

What a load.of Baloney. It was Labour that saved FF. In there rush to be part of the government in 2011 they made unsustainable promises, remember the Labour way or the Frankfurt way. If labour has not over promised they would have been the main opposition party from 2011- whenever, it is likely that if FG had the numbers to form a government by itself it would have only lasted 3-4 years not 5. Labour would have stormed into power and SF would still be only a party of 10ishTDs

Instead labour left an open gate to both SF and FF.you should be thanking Gilmore and Rabbit

Blame anyone but FG.

Surprise surprise we now have them coalescing to cling onto power for a wee while longer.

They'll help SF alright by being completely transparently obvious in what they are doing.

Mortelaro

FrancieBrady wrote: »

No, they aren't going anywhere. Like dock weed you have to keep it cut back or it will just get stronger.

Are you sure you're not talking about Sinn Féin:D

FrancieBrady

Mortelaro wrote: »

Are you sure you're not talking about Sinn Féin:D

One man's weed is another's flower...etc etc

smurgen

blanch152 wrote: »

That is the problem, you are relying on book learning from an economics masters.

Economics theory usually only survives about five minutes in the real world, hence that is why you get so much wrong. By the time you adapt economics to reality, it is more like a combination of psychology, sociology, behavioural science and business management than any recognisable economics that you pick up in college.

I agree 100% that's why is more regarded as an art than a science by those that have studied it. However I was scoffed at and accused of lying about my education last night. The latest insults cast. Hence why I wanted to tackle people on the actual theory that I studied.

smurgen

christy c wrote: »

You never gave a figure, what was Google's effective rate of tax in 2018?

When referencing companies paying more than 12.5% you said "Some companies?lol maybe small companies than can't afford tax efficient structures".

Please don't get on your high horse with insults either, with your frequent mention of Finnerbots.

Is this before of after you dismissed the creative accounting that facilitates tax deductible payments back to the parent company? You know that part that puts the profit shifting part into BEPS?

christy c

smurgen wrote: »

Is this before of after you dismissed the creative accounting that facilitates tax deductible payments back to the parent company? You know that part that puts the profit shifting part into BEPS?

Whenever you have calculated the effective rate come back to me.

smurgen

markodaly wrote: »

What nonsense is this?

EVERY country in the western world is going to have a huge bill to pay after this dies down. Blaming FG for the fact that a bill is due because of Covid-19 is among one of the most stupidest comments I have seen here for a while.

You're intentionally misrepresenting what I said. I'm saying the boom was squandered and we're more exposed than we should be. That stupid comment is your own because you created a false arguement out of the misreading of my comment and attributing it to me.but I've seen it as a regular tactic out of yourself.

smurgen

christy c wrote: »

Whenever you have calculated the effective rate come back to me.

So still ignoring what I'm saying or don't understand which is it? I hope to Christ you're not an accountant given the understanding you're showing.

christy c

smurgen wrote: »

So still ignoring what I'm saying or don't understand which is it? I hope to Christ you're not an accountant given the understanding you're showing.

As I said, come back to me when you have calculated the effective rate of tax.

I understand royalty payments perfectly, and they were explained to you by another poster when you were waffling a few weeks ago.

Mortelaro

smurgen wrote: »

I agree 100% that's why is more regarded as an art than a science by those that have studied it. However I was scoffed at and accused of lying about my education last night. The latest insults cast. Hence why I wanted to tackle people on the actual theory that I studied.

In my opinion, just going on your posts,you do not have a masters degree in Economics.

tobsey

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Blame anyone but FG.

Surprise surprise we now have them coalescing to cling onto power for a wee while longer.

They'll help SF alright by being completely transparently obvious in what they are doing.

You’re point on this is pure nonsense Francie. Do you think FG said to their voters who were leaving them, here Vote for FF so?? If the voters went to FF instead of the other parties that’s the fault of those parties. I’m sure you’d be delighted if FG had held on to them and kept FF and SF small alright.

smurgen

markodaly wrote: »

Oh here we go.
The bore has come out of the daily hibernation.

But lets take it this way, you blame FF for the crash, but I guess the good economic news since 2011 has been 'luck' and nothing to do with the government at the helm?

You cannot have it both ways, either governments in power are be blamed for their bad mistakes and praised for good outcomes or not.

The world financial markets have seen their biggest bull period ever. And as a small open economy it's a case of a rising tide lifting all boats.

Have a read of this as it highlights alot of how I feel and my worries on how we run the economy. I find the National Competitiveness Council reports good and I'd love to see the Department of Finance pay more attention to them.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2018/1219/1018003-competitiveness-threat/

tobsey

smurgen wrote: »

You're intentionally misrepresenting what I said. I'm saying the boom was squandered and we're more exposed than we should be. That stupid comment is your own because you created a false arguement out of the misreading of my comment and attributing it to me.but I've seen it as a regular tactic out of yourself.

Went from a massive deficit to a surplus, went from being bailed out by IMF at astronomical rates to borrowing on the bond markets at some of the lowest rates for any countries in the world. Yeah, wasted that boom alright.

smurgen

tobsey wrote: »

Went from a massive deficit to a surplus, went from being bailed out by IMF at astronomical rates to borrowing on the bond markets at some of the lowest rates for any countries in the world. Yeah, wasted that boom alright.

Ya good but could have been better. We've under spent in key areas that would secure our competitiveness into the future e.g housing and public transport and utilities. If we're looking at the return on investment for our public spending we should have absolutely pumped money into some of these areas as they could give us a good return even in a recession. If you've time have a read of this. It's pretty interesting stuff. U.S centric but we can use some of the principles being discussed.

https://www.epi.org/publication/the-potential-macroeconomic-benefits-from-increasing-infrastructure-investment/

FrancieBrady

tobsey wrote: »

You’re point on this is pure nonsense Francie. Do you think FG said to their voters who were leaving them, here Vote for FF so?? If the voters went to FF instead of the other parties that’s the fault of those parties. I’m sure you’d be delighted if FG had held on to them and kept FF and SF small alright.

That is just naivety.

FG and FF know they have to work together ultimately.

It's a bit like two parachutists colliding midair and getting their chutes tangled, with the result there is only one chute working. Both will cling to one another not willing to let go to see who's chute is the damaged one.

Same as the two power swap parties...they know ultimately one of them is going down, they just don't know which one.

They will merge closer and closer together as a result...they are now about to get as close to one another without actually merging.

smurgen

Mortelaro wrote: »

In my opinion, just going on your posts,you do not have a masters degree in Economics.

Okay so tell me the parts of economic theory that my posts are in contraction of?

smurgen

I wonder will Harris be turning attention to the nursing homes now that inaction have lead to numerous deaths? Couldn't even talk to our reply to the head of the nursing home body until the body count got too high to ignore. How in God's name were the nursing home visitations kept open for so long?

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/nursing-homes-body-wants-urgent-meeting-with-simon-harris-990134.html

Mortelaro

smurgen wrote: »

I wonder will Harris be turning attention to the nursing homes now that inaction have lead to numerous deaths? Couldn't even talk to our reply to the head of the nursing home body until the body count got too high to ignore. How in God's name were the nursing home visitations kept open for so long?

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/nursing-homes-body-wants-urgent-meeting-with-simon-harris-990134.html

Jaysis..that's 3 days old

It's the job of the CMO and NPHET
Heres today's latest ...

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0404/1128463-covid19-coronavirus-ireland/

smurgen

Mortelaro wrote: »

Jaysis..that's 3 days old

It's the job of the CMO and NPHET
Heres today's latest ...

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0404/1128463-covid19-coronavirus-ireland/

So he’s days late implementing these time sensitive measures it seems. Important we document the timelines for when the dust settles here. Like here where on March 11th the government stance was it was too early to ban visitors after nursing homes Ireland had put in restrictions on visits. http://www.redfm.ie/news/coronavirus/department-of-health-blanket-ban-on-visitors-to-hospitals-and-nursing-homes-amid-coronavirus-unnecessary/

Mortelaro

smurgen wrote: »

So he’s days late implementing these time sensitive measures it seems. Important we document the timelines for when the dust settles here. Like here where on March 11th the government stance was it was too early to ban visitors after nursing homes Ireland had put in restrictions on visits. http://www.redfm.ie/news/coronavirus/department-of-health-blanket-ban-on-visitors-to-hospitals-and-nursing-homes-amid-coronavirus-unnecessary/

You need to contact NPHET about that
Did Fine Gael murder your mother or something?

joeguevara

Mortelaro wrote: »

In my opinion, just going on your posts,you do not have a masters degree in Economics.

I think it’s very unfair to claim something like that. If you don’t agree with points or think it’s misinterpreted, use that to argue. But to say that someone lied about something that could be an integral part of who they are isn’t nice. I have had similar things said to me and it really hurt. Especially with what is happening, no one knows the impact it can have.

smurgen

joeguevara wrote: »

I think it’s very unfair to claim something like that. If you don’t agree with points or think it’s misinterpreted, use that to argue. But to say that someone lied about something that could be an integral part of who they are isn’t nice. I have had similar things said to me and it really hurt. Especially with what is happening, no one knows the impact it can have.

I'm getting a good laugh off this. The FG fanboys questioning my educational background while a completely inept, disaster after disaster health minister who's also a college dropout,no education in the area he works in and zero experience gets their support couldn't make this stuff up.

declanflynn

FrancieBrady wrote: »

That is just naivety.

FG and FF know they have to work together ultimately.

It's a bit like two parachutists colliding midair and getting their chutes tangled, with the result there is only one chute working. Both will cling to one another not willing to let go to see who's chute is the damaged one.

Same as the two power swap parties...they know ultimately one of them is going down, they just don't know which one.

They will merge closer and closer together as a result...they are now about to get as close to one another without actually merging.

that's because the left have never had the numbers to form a government, so really it's the Irish people who are to blame

joeguevara

smurgen wrote: »

I'm getting a good laugh off this. The FG fanboys questioning my educational background while a completely inept, disaster after disaster health minister who's also a college dropout,no education in the area he works in and zero experience gets their support couldn't make this stuff up.

I don’t care which side a person is on but I find it below the belt for anyone to openly declare that someone is lying about their education or job. Obviously if someone claims to be something when they clearly aren’t is a different matter. But if someone is being genuine then it’s below the belt. People can be so cruel and accusing someone of being a liar is so hurtful.

FrancieBrady

declanflynn wrote: »

that's because the left have never had the numbers to form a government, so really it's the Irish people who are to blame

No...but so inept have the recent incarnations of FF and FG been, that we know where it is headed.

I reckoned before the crisis that the best out come from and indecisive election was FG/FF ending up coalescing because that garunteed change next time around. I still might get that outcome.

Suckit

declanflynn wrote: »

that's because the left have never had the numbers to form a government, so really it's the Irish people who are to blame

Sorry, but how does that make sense?
To blame for what exactly?

FG never hold on the majority vote per party, with 2 exceptions, and both of those times were exceptional circumstances.
FG know that, and it is likely why they strike so many deals when they are in, which in turn leads to their majority vote per party dropping again. If they moved forward and looked barely like they were in for the good of the country, they would do better. Their arrogance doesn't help either.
They expect those votes to go back to FF though, that's why their knickers got so twisted this time. FF historically have majority vote per party until they mess up, then FG come in and look after their seats for a while.
Now there is another contender for that seat and FG can't handle it. They are trying everything that they can, unfortunately for them, they have the most useless lot calling the shots, in their entire existence.
I believe that they will live to regret not going with Coveney, for a long time to come.
Leo and his spin team are looking good right now, but it won't stay that way.
The reality is, another party were always going to come in and shake things up. It mightn't happen yet, but it's not long away, whoever that party may be.
My money is on FG being the biggest casualty.

If you want to blame someone for the state of politics and the country, blame the take-all parties. They have had a century of mistakes forgiven over and over again. Still they take.