Will Britain piss off and get on with Brexit II (mod warning in OP)

Tallyho !

First Up wrote: »

All negotiations involve a bit of give and take. EU member states are (rightly) suspicious and sceptical about the UK but they will do what's in the best interests of their own industries and economy. The UK is a nice market to sell into but companies across Europe are also doing very nicely by picking up business the UK has lost. UK exports to the EU are in free fall; sales from the EU to the UK are down as well but the UK needs the EU market a lot more than the EU needs theirs.

Of course the UK and EU will have a "relationship" but it is one of the most one-sided trade negotiations in history.

Early days yet and the pandemic has made things difficult.
Come back in 5-10 years time and see what's happening to get the true picture.
It'll be interesting to see how well the heavily-regulated EU bounces back.Remember Europe was already the worst-performing continent pre-pandemic.
And be careful what you wish for.If the UK sneezes then Ireland will not only catch the flu but will be in ICU PDQ.

First Up

Tallyho ! wrote:

Early days yet and the pandemic has made things difficult. Come back in 5-10 years time and see what's happening to get the true picture. It'll be interesting to see how well the heavily-regulated EU bounces back.Remember Europe was already the worst-performing continent pre-pandemic. And be careful what you wish for.If the UK sneezes then Ireland will not only catch the flu but will be in ICU PDQ.

If the UK has a 5-10 year plan it is doing a good job hiding it. If that plan includes lots of de-regulation, we'll see how the EU and its other trade partners feel about doing business with it.

Ireland sends 9% of its exports to the UK. Meanwhile Ireland is a bigger market for the UK than is China. I hope the UK's trade negotiators know that.

Tallyho !

Tallyho ! wrote: »

Remember Europe was already the worst-performing continent pre-pandemic.

What?

2019 GDP per capita:

ohnonotgmail

Tallyho ! wrote: »

Early days yet and the pandemic has made things difficult.
Come back in 5-10 years time and see what's happening to get the true picture.
It'll be interesting to see how well the heavily-regulated EU bounces back.Remember Europe was already the worst-performing continent pre-pandemic.
And be careful what you wish for.If the UK sneezes then Ireland will not only catch the flu but will be in ICU PDQ.

the 1980s called and asked for their economic predictions backed.

kowloon

Leroy42 wrote: »

As usual with Brexit, it the hypocrisy of it.
FoM was apparently at the core of every ill, but now FoM is to be welcomed.

FoM is the complete opposite of controlling our borders!

All because the UK want FoM to Australia of course. Give it a few years, when the UK has loads more Aussies and you will see a backlash against them

I don't think there would be too much of a backlash unless they were Aussies of the wrong colour.

RobMc59

France apparently threatening to cut electricity to Jersey over fishing licence disputes according to this link.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-56984886

ILoveYourVibes

RobMc59 wrote: »

France apparently threatening to cut electricity to Jersey over fishing licence disputes according to this link.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-56984886

and

https://www.rte.ie/news/brexit/2021/0503/1213564-brexit-food-safety-rules/

Leroy42

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

and

https://www.rte.ie/news/brexit/2021/0503/1213564-brexit-food-safety-rules/

Reads to me that the EU are looking to bend the rules for the UK.

From a UK POV, its working. Keep ignoring the deal and the EU will give way.

fash

Leroy42 wrote: »

Reads to me that the EU are looking to bend the rules for the UK.

From a UK POV, its working. Keep ignoring the deal and the EU will give way.

I'm not sure I understand: in relation to the TCA, didn't the EU always permit the opportunity to align to food standards to minimize disruption? It also benefits the EU: otherwise the same disruptions will kick in for EU countries whenever the UK gets around to implementing them- and it makes it (slightly more) difficult for the UK to leave EU regulatory orbit at a future stage.

ILoveYourVibes

Leroy42 wrote: »

Reads to me that the EU are looking to bend the rules for the UK.

From a UK POV, its working. Keep ignoring the deal and the EU will give way.

Not really i think they do it for norway or ..some other countries but the uk would never do it.

I think they will ...but if they want to do trade deals with others it might hurt them.

Peregrinus

Leroy42 wrote: »

Reads to me that the EU are looking to bend the rules for the UK.

From a UK POV, its working. Keep ignoring the deal and the EU will give way.

Inviting the UK to align with EU rules is hardly "bending the rules", Leroy.

Leroy42

Peregrinus wrote: »

Inviting the UK to align with EU rules is hardly "bending the rules", Leroy.

Well, it is handing over the control to a third country. And unlike Canada etc, this is agri and fast moving goods.

UK has been saying the standards are aligned so what's the problem from the very start yet it was argued this was sufficient as the UK could change at any time and the EU wouldn't have control.

So what has changed? Why have the EU now acceded to accepting the UK as the control of our (EU standards).

But more than that, it shows that by stamping their feet and refusing to implement agreements the EU will bend.

The lesson for the UK? Keep going, it will take time but the EU is not ready for a fight and will always look to negotiate

ancapailldorcha

Leroy42 wrote: »

Well, it is handing over the control to a third country. And unlike Canada etc, this is agri and fast moving goods.

UK has been saying the standards are aligned so what's the problem from the very start yet it was argued this was sufficient as the UK could change at any time and the EU wouldn't have control.

So what has changed? Why have the EU now acceded to accepting the UK as the control of our (EU standards).

I've no idea where you're getting this from.

Both the UK and the EU have strong standards for food and were previously aligned. All the EU is suggesting is that much of the problem is caused by the entirely political desire to end said alignment that has been manufactured by conservatives.

Peregrinus

Leroy42 wrote: »

Well, it is handing over the control to a third country. And unlike Canada etc, this is agri and fast moving goods.

UK has been saying the standards are aligned so what's the problem from the very start yet it was argued this was sufficient as the UK could change at any time and the EU wouldn't have control.

So what has changed? Why have the EU now acceded to accepting the UK as the control of our (EU standards).

But more than that, it shows that by stamping their feet and refusing to implement agreements the EU will bend.

The lesson for the UK? Keep going, it will take time but the EU is not ready for a fight and will always look to negotiate

Other way round. UK is currently aligned with EU but is upset because EU won't treat its produce as compliant, because UK hasn't committed to maintaining alignment - they could change at any moment, and would not be in breach of any agreement with the EU if they did.

So EU is suggesting that UK should make an agreement in which it commits to maintaining alignment.

This isn't "handing over control to a third country" — unless you mean that the UK would be handing over control, since it would be legally obliged to adopt and enforce product standards set by the EU.

And it isn't the EU bending - it's the EU pointing out that, if the UK finds that it doesn't like what it signed up to, it has the option of signing up instead to what the EU would all along have preferred the UK to sign up to.

Leroy42

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

I've no idea where you're getting this from.

Both the UK and the EU have strong standards for food and were previously aligned. All the EU is suggesting is that much of the problem is caused by the entirely political desire to end said alignment that has been manufactured by conservatives.

So why is this happening now? The UK have been making that claim from the outset and the EU claimed it wasn't workable as the UK could change at any time and had no guarantee they would take on new standards.

Basically, the UK get all the benefits of membership without being a member. They get to have full access without having any responsibility

Whats the point of membership if one can pick and choose the rules?

RobMc59

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

and

https://www.rte.ie/news/brexit/2021/0503/1213564-brexit-food-safety-rules/

Aligning with EU standards makes sense to most people I'd say but apparently not the tories.
What is your opinion of France threatening to cut electricity to Jersey?

Seth Brundle

RobMc59 wrote: »

Aligning with EU standards makes sense to most people I'd say but apparently not the tories.
What is your opinion of France threatening to cut electricity to Jersey?

What is your opinion of the UK Jersey altering the new undiscussed licencing rules?

Peregrinus

RobMc59 wrote: »

Aligning with EU standards makes sense to most people I'd say but apparently not the tories.
What is your opinion of France threatening to cut electricity to Jersey?

It's the equivalent of Pritti Patel threatening to blockade UK exports to Ireland. It's offensive, it's stupid and it's not going to happen.

RobMc59

Seth Brundle wrote: »

What is your opinion of the UK Jersey altering the new undiscussed licencing rules?

I'd say it's more wanting to enforce the licencing rules correctly using tracking of EU vessels .Forty one licenses were issued on on day alone which hardly seems like being obstructive.

ancapailldorcha

Leroy42 wrote: »

So why is this happening now? The UK have been making that claim from the outset and the EU claimed it wasn't workable as the UK could change at any time and had no guarantee they would take on new standards.

Basically, the UK get all the benefits of membership without being a member. They get to have full access without having any responsibility

Whats the point of membership if one can pick and choose the rules?

Where are they getting all the benefits, exactly? If they aligned, they'd have to comply with the regulatory inspection regime as they had done for four and a half decades.

Peregrinus

RobMc59 wrote: »

I'd say it's more wanting to enforce the licencing rules correctly using tracking of EU vessels .Forty one licenses were issued on on day alone which hardly seems like being obstructive.

The subject of the dispute seems to be the licensing rules which, in the French view, (a) are new and (b) have not been pre-notified or discussed. "Enforcing the licensing rules correctly" is not a defence if the rules themselves in in breach of the agreement.

From the BBC report, UK DEFRA is washing its hands of the affair ("We are clear that Jersey is responsible for its own territorial waters"), which may — or may not — be a straw in the wind suggesting that the UK don't want to align themselves with Jersey on this particular matter.

Donald Trump

I see the UK have closed yet another successful deal now that the EU shackles are off. A golden era for fishermen awaits!

Just kidding

loughside

Donald Trump wrote: »

I see the UK have closed yet another successful deal now that the EU shackles are off.

Yes indeed, fantastic news!!
Prime Minister announces £1 billion of new UK-India trade

New commercial trade and investment deals will create more than 6,500 UK jobs.


Only a matter of time now until the those EU poor, EU neglected and EU oppressed of the 26 counties rejoin the United Kingdom!!

Padre_Pio

loughside wrote: »

Yes indeed, fantastic news!!
Prime Minister announces £1 billion of new UK-India trade

New commercial trade and investment deals will create more than 6,500 UK jobs.


Only a matter of time now until the those EU poor, EU neglected and EU oppressed of the 26 counties rejoin the United Kingdom!!

How many of these jobs are pen pushers and customs clerks?

Donald Trump

loughside wrote: »

Yes indeed, fantastic news!!
Prime Minister announces £1 billion of new UK-India trade

New commercial trade and investment deals will create more than 6,500 UK jobs.


Only a matter of time now until the those EU poor, EU neglected and EU oppressed of the 26 counties rejoin the United Kingdom!!

Maybe some of the broke fisherman can upskill and go and work in Indian scam call centres?



https://smallbusinessprices.co.uk/brexit-index/

The Raging Bile Duct

loughside wrote: »

Yes indeed, fantastic news!!
Prime Minister announces £1 billion of new UK-India trade

New commercial trade and investment deals will create more than 6,500 UK jobs.


Only a matter of time now until the those EU poor, EU neglected and EU oppressed of the 26 counties rejoin the United Kingdom!!

You should read Priti Patel's facebook page. It's going down like a lead balloon with the section of Britain that voted to leave the EU to keep out the foreigners. Not the Brexit I voted for, etc...

ancapailldorcha

The Raging Bile Duct wrote: »

You should read Priti Patel's facebook page. It's going down like a lead balloon with the section of Britain that voted to leave the EU to keep out the foreigners. Not the Brexit I voted for, etc...

moritz1234

Brussels recommends member states block UK from Lugano Convention
Hannah Godfrey

The EU Commission has recommended that the EU does not give consent for the UK to join the Lugano Convention, an international legal pact.

In an update today, the EU Commission said the Convention was designed to support third countries with particularly close regulatory integration with the EU, including being aligned with part of the EU acquis.

“The Commission takes the view that the European Union should not give
its consent to the accession of the United Kingdom to the 2007 Lugano Convention.” the EU Commission said.

“For the European Union, the Lugano Convention is a flanking measure of the internal market and relates to the EU-EFTA/EEA context. In relation to all other third countries the consistent policy of the European Union is to promote cooperation within the framework of the multilateral Hague Conventions.

“The United Kingdom is a third country without a special link to the internal market. Therefore, there is no reason for the European Union to depart from its general approach in relation to the United Kingdom.

“Consequently, the Hague Conventions should provide the framework for future cooperation between the European Union and the United Kingdom in the field of civil judicial cooperation.”

The Lugano Convention applied to the UK until 31 January 2020 via membership of the EU.

The convention allows legal judgements to be enforced across borders, with all EU countries plus Norway, Switzerland and Iceland members of the pact.

It means that consumers are able to take companies based in different countries to court domestically if they are unhappy with a product, for example.

The UK applied to join the Lugano Convention in order to maintain stability on previous legal judgements on cross-border disputes.

Seth Brundle

I posted similar tweets in the Arlene & the DUP thread but Tony Connelly is after posting a thread on Twitter containing a load of quotes from Brexit meetings contained within Michel Barnier's new book.
The thread is worth reading - I'd say the book is even better!

https://twitter.com/tconnellyRTE/status/1389975583736598533

RobMc59

Peregrinus wrote: »

The subject of the dispute seems to be the licensing rules which, in the French view, (a) are new and (b) have not been pre-notified or discussed. "Enforcing the licensing rules correctly" is not a defence if the rules themselves in in breach of the agreement.

From the BBC report, UK DEFRA is washing its hands of the affair ("We are clear that Jersey is responsible for its own territorial waters"), which may — or may not — be a straw in the wind suggesting that the UK don't want to align themselves with Jersey on this particular matter.

It appears there are significant developments around Jersey with the imminent arrival of royal navy ships .

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57003069.amp