Will Britain piss off and get on with Brexit II (mod warning in OP)

Doctor Roast

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Could you point to a 'democracy' where every single thing decided by the elected representatives has to go before the electorate for decision?

There isn't, we elect people and so give them permission to change things and t make decisions on our behalf.


This has been explained so many times now it beggars belief. Scroll back and you'll find the answer to it.

Ahhh right that must be why they removed the language in the Lisbon treaty relating to flags and anthems to hide the EUs political ambitions and cut off any calls for referendums on it... Only to reintroduce them a short while later when it was ratified, I'm pretty sure a decision like a superstate belongs to the people of a nation, which goes back to my point, the EU doesn't have the people's consent... No wonder its in so much bother

Doctor Roast

Padre_Pio wrote: »

Oh God, every point makes me want to puke.
Some lads need an enemy to fight. Bunch of champagne socialists.

I could bother, but there's no point. you're clearly entrenched in your views and not willing to accept any input.


Please, read a book.

God love ya... I'd recommend you read a book and maybe read aloud to a few of the others here, completly naive or just acting ignorant

Seth Brundle

Doctor Roast wrote: »

Ahhh right that must be why they removed the language in the Lisbon treaty relating to flags and anthems to hide the EUs political ambitions and cut off any calls for referendums on it... Only to reintroduce them a short while later when it was ratified, I'm pretty sure a decision like a superstate belongs to the people of a nation, which goes back to my point, the EU doesn't have the people's consent... No wonder its in so much bother

As the EU is a collection of countries, which countries are looking for a superstate?

Ted_YNWA

Doctor Roast wrote:

God love ya... I'd recommend you read a book and maybe read aloud to a few of the others here, completly naive or just acting ignorant

MOD

Cut this attitude out.

Doctor Roast

Ted_YNWA wrote: »

MOD

Cut this attitude out.

What's good for the goose...

Padre_Pio

Doctor Roast wrote: »

Ahhh right that must be why they removed the language in the Lisbon treaty relating to flags and anthems to hide the EUs political ambitions and cut off any calls for referendums on it... Only to reintroduce them a short while later when it was ratified, I'm pretty sure a decision like a superstate belongs to the people of a nation, which goes back to my point, the EU doesn't have the people's consent... No wonder its in so much bother

You're not worth engaging with, because your opinions are not grounded in fact. You posts remind me of the anti-Lisbon and anti-Nice treaty posters from Coir, Sinn Fein, and all those other irrelevant groups that I shudder to call "political parties" since they haven't a single representative.
Ultimately, the people of Ireland voted Yes for both treaties. 67% for Lisbon and 62% for Nice, which is a pretty resounding Yes.

Doctor Roast

Padre_Pio wrote: »

You're not worth engaging with, because your opinions are not grounded in fact. You posts remind me of the anti-Lisbon and anti-Nice treaty posters from Coir, Sinn Fein, and all those other irrelevant groups that I shudder to call "political parties" since they haven't a single representative.
Ultimately, the people of Ireland voted Yes for both treaties. 67% for Lisbon and 62% for Nice, which is a pretty resounding Yes.

Really?!? Let's hear from old D'estaing... Ya know the architect of the EU constitution..

"
For the Treaty of Lisbon the process has been very different. It was the legal experts for the European Council who were charged with drafting the new text. They have not made any new suggestions. They have taken the original draft constitution, blown it apart into separate elements, and have then attached them, one by one, to existing treaties. The Treaty of Lisbon is thus a catalogue of amendments. It is unpenetrable for the public.

In terms of content, the proposed institutional reforms – the only ones which mattered to the drafting Convention – are all to be found in the Treaty of Lisbon. They have merely been ordered differently and split up between previous treaties. There are, however, some differences. Firstly, the noun "constitution" and the adjective "constitutional" have been banished from the text, as though they describe something inadmissible. At the same time, all mention of the symbols of the EU have been suppressed, including the flag (which already flies everywhere), and the European anthem (Beethoven's Ode to Joy). However ridiculous they seem, these decisions are significant. They are intended to chase away any suggestion that Europe may one day have a formal political status. They sound a significant retreat from European political ambition."

And oh look...

https://www.euractiv.com/section/public-affairs/news/parliament-resurrects-controversial-eu-symbols/

FrancieBrady

Doctor Roast wrote: »

Ahhh right that must be why they removed the language in the Lisbon treaty relating to flags and anthems to hide the EUs political ambitions and cut off any calls for referendums on it... Only to reintroduce them a short while later when it was ratified, I'm pretty sure a decision like a superstate belongs to the people of a nation, which goes back to my point, the EU doesn't have the people's consent... No wonder its in so much bother

The flag and anthem are there because of a democratic vote in which our reps voted. If your side lost, that's tough, but then, that's democracy in action.
As long as we are electing MEP's anf so giving them permission to vote on our behalf, it is a democratic institution, EVEN if you disagree with what they decide.

Padre_Pio

Doctor Roast wrote: »

Really?!? Let's hear from old D'estaing... Ya know the architect of the EU constitution..

https://www.euractiv.com/section/public-affairs/news/parliament-resurrects-controversial-eu-symbols/

Lad, I don't care, and no one else cares either. I'd be happier having some Germans running the show here instead of the usual shower of idiots.

Besides, your link shows all this stuff was voted through with a huge majority. Ireland has 11 MEPs, that me and everyone else votes for. Guaranteed they all voted for it, so what's your problem?

Necro

Doctor Roast wrote: »

What's good for the goose...

Threadbanned

Doctor Roast

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The flag and anthem are there because of a democratic vote in which our reps voted. If your side lost, that's tough, but then, that's democracy in action.
As long as we are electing MEP's anf so giving them permission to vote on our behalf, it is a democratic institution, EVEN if you disagree with what they decide.

The MEPs are rubber stampers who hardly anyone has ever even heard of, not to mention the abysmal voter turn out for EU elections. The flag and anthem were removed in a "nothing to see here, just another ambiguous EU treaty"
It's antidemocratic and administrative abuse

FrancieBrady

Doctor Roast wrote: »

The MEPs are rubber stampers who hardly anyone has ever even heard of, not to mention the abysmal voter turn out for EU elections. The flag and anthem were removed in a "nothing to see here, just another ambiguous EU treaty"
It's antidemocratic and administrative abuse

Speak for yourself...don't expect to know anything about the EU by osmosis, you need to inform yourself as to what is going on. And you patently haven't.

kowloon

The troll-people are easily startled but they will soon be back and in greater numbers.

fash

Padre_Pio wrote: »

This undemocratic EU, full of elected MPs, foisting their rules on us through referendums after we voted to join.

And for what? What have the EU ever done for us?!
Apart from the following:

• Irish businesses have unhindered access to a market of over 510 million people
• An estimated 978,000 jobs have been created in Ireland during the years of membership and trade has increased 150 fold
• Foreign Direct Investment in to Ireland have increased dramatically from just €16 million in 1972 to more than €30 billion
• Irish citizens have the right to move, work and reside freely within the territory of other member states
• Between 1973 and 2015, Ireland received over €74.3 billion from the EU. During the same time, it contributed approximately €32 billion to the EU budget (Department of Finance figures).
• Between 1973 and 2014 Irish farmers received €54 billion from the Common Agricultural Policy.
• Irish views and interests are reflected in the policies of the EU towards the rest of the world.
• EU membership has helped bring peace and political agreement in Northern Ireland through support and investment in cross-border programmes.
• The Irish language is an official working language in the EU, which helps to protect the country’s native mother tongue for future generations.

You might also add: the EU forced the UK to keep a soft border in Ireland. What would the Tories have done to "show the Irish their place" if Ireland didn't have that power behind it.

Hamsterchops

Tis all very quiet on the Brexit front these days (apart obviously from NI) and the thuggish disturbances there, but in Britain itself have things calmed down? No giant lorry queues at ferry ports? No major trade disruption?

Have all the worries about Brexit chaos & meltdown been averted?

The Raging Bile Duct

Hamsterchops wrote: »

Tis all very quiet on the Brexit front these days (apart obviously from NI) and the thuggish disturbances there, but in Britain itself have things calmed down? No giant lorry queues at ferry ports? No major trade disruption?

Have all the worries about Brexit chaos & meltdown been averted?

There is major trade disruption caused by Brexit, it's just not the headline grabbing trucks queueing at ports kind. Covid has taken a lot of attention away from Brexit.

Imports and exports that might have taken a couple of days pre-Brexit can be stuck in customs for weeks at a time. And with the bulk of the UK's veterinary, and sanitary and phytosanitary inspections not being implemented until 1 October, things are going to get a lot more awkward for agrifood imports into Britain.

Brexit really is a death by a thousand cuts and it's there's a lot of complications that people never thought about, from issues with recognition of professional qualifications to things like visas for au-pairs, that are going to effect them on a daily basis.

timetogo1

Hamsterchops wrote: »

Tis all very quiet on the Brexit front these days (apart obviously from NI) and the thuggish disturbances there, but in Britain itself have things calmed down? No giant lorry queues at ferry ports? No major trade disruption?

Have all the worries about Brexit chaos & meltdown been averted?

40% fall in trade to the EU isn't a major trade disruption? That's from the Jan results (https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/nationalaccounts/balanceofpayments/bulletins/uktrade/january2021). Februarys aren't out yet. Government says it's "teething issues". Plenty of anecdotal stories from business owners saying their business to the EU is fubar.

Plus certain areas of fishing decimated.

EU trading of shares leaving London (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2021-03-26/brexit-news-charts-show-financial-impact-on-london-paris-amsterdam-dublin)

British Expats (immigrants) having trouble in Spain if they didn't bother registering properly now that they can only spend 90 out of 180 days at at a time in the EU.

All the new shiny trade deals that were promised are copy / paste of the EU deals (except for Japan which is a bit worse) and the US deal seems to be getting further away.

It's hard to keep up. The NI stuff is bad enough obviously.

I think from Irelands / EUs point of view, Brexit is done. So you won't be seeing much business headlines.
In the UK it's not getting much traction. Even on BBCs news website the Northern Ireland riots gets the same amount of front screen space as "Deep sea mining to help produce electric vehicles" or "Egypt unearths 3000-year-old lost golden city"
https://www.bbc.com/news

On the www.nytimes.com Northern Ireland even gets a bigger part of the page.

Leroy42

timetogo1 wrote: »

40% fall in trade to the EU isn't a major trade disruption? That's from the Jan results (https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/nationalaccounts/balanceofpayments/bulletins/uktrade/january2021). Februarys aren't out yet. Government says it's "teething issues". Plenty of anecdotal stories from business owners saying their business to the EU is fubar.

Plus certain areas of fishing decimated.

EU trading of shares leaving London (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2021-03-26/brexit-news-charts-show-financial-impact-on-london-paris-amsterdam-dublin)

British Expats (immigrants) having trouble in Spain if they didn't bother registering properly now that they can only spend 90 out of 180 days at at a time in the EU.

All the new shiny trade deals that were promised are copy / paste of the EU deals (except for Japan which is a bit worse) and the US deal seems to be getting further away.

It's hard to keep up. The NI stuff is bad enough obviously.

One needs to also remember that in effect the Uk has given up, temporarily, the notion of import checks. That is limiting the disruption to stock and prices in the UK in the short term.

timetogo1

Leroy42 wrote: »

One needs to also remember that in effect the Uk has given up, temporarily, the notion of import checks. That is limiting the disruption to stock and prices in the UK in the short term.

Yep the TCA isn't even ratified by the EU yet and the UK wants to get rid of the Northern Ireland Protocol and hasn't implemented checks on it's side.

But the UK not checking stuff on their side is great for anybody importing to UK. Not so great for UK business.

MadYaker

Leroy42 wrote: »

One needs to also remember that in effect the Uk has given up, temporarily, the notion of import checks. That is limiting the disruption to stock and prices in the UK in the short term.

Which is kind of hilarious when you think back to some of things the brexiteers have been saying. I guess they have control at least!

Padre_Pio

timetogo1 wrote: »

40% fall in trade to the EU isn't a major trade disruption? That's from the Jan results

Feb results out next Tuesday. Will be interesting to see

Professor Moriarty

Padre_Pio wrote: »

Feb results out next Tuesday. Will be interesting to see

The Tories will bury them with Prince Philip. Nothing to see here, look at the royal funeral. Or removal.

J Mysterio

https://twitter.com/pimlicat/status/1383402103566061571?s=20

RobMc59

I've seen many things blamed on brexit but this is the most bizarre.

https://www.politico.eu/article/juventus-chief-blames-brexit-for-super-league-collapse/

The Raging Bile Duct

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/brexit-news/europe-news/brexit-regret-leave-voters-wish-remained-7908356

From that article....

In Benidorm, retired former Brexiteer Joe told website GCTN that the new 180-day restriction on visits to the EU means "People are panicking to sell their properties purely because they're going to be away from their properties for 90 days.”

He added: "Brexit itself, when it was first started, was going to be brilliant because I honestly believe that Britain should stay Britain and we run by ourselves. There's no way I would vote to go for it (now), because it's harming me and my future, what I want to do with what time we have left, me and my wife together, in this sort of surroundings."

There's isn't a violin tiny enough for me to play him.

RobMc59

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/brexit-news/europe-news/brexit-regret-leave-voters-wish-remained-7908356



just shows that Brexiteers can talk out of both sides their mouth and dont understand irony

His ability to jump on the bandwagon is second only to Ms ML McDonald who is the world champion bandwagon jumper.

FrancieBrady

The Raging Bile Duct wrote: »

From that article....



There's isn't a violin tiny enough for me to play him.

Bizarre lack of self awareness amongst this cohort of British ex-pats. Very hard to feel any sympathy for them.

ancapailldorcha

The Raging Bile Duct wrote: »

From that article....



There's isn't a violin tiny enough for me to play him.

It's real leopards eating people's faces stuff, isn't it.

ancapailldorcha

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Bizarre lack of self awareness amongst this cohort of British ex-pats. Very hard to feel any sympathy for them.

Impossible IMO. One positive of this whole farce is seeing these parasites getting shipped back to Blightey.

RobMc59

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Impossible IMO. One positive of this whole farce is seeing these parasites getting shipped back to Blightey.

How are they parasites?