CHAdeMO v CCS

Zenith74

liamog wrote: »

Ok, so you don't actually have a problem with the Leaf being a 2011 car in a pretty shell, you just don't want people to realise it, in some strange kind of defence of the car?.

I’m not convinced you’re actually reading what I’m posting, so let’s park this here.

Laviski

Zenith74 wrote: »

I’m not convinced you’re actually reading what I’m posting, so let’s park this here.

Yup wasting your time, majority have very bias anti leaf sentiment on here.

Yes they could have done better by battery by having active cooling. If they did then yes they could have CCS adapters. But they didn't. Was aware of this before I got mine and not a game changer for what I need the car to do.

I have only use chademo three times so far in last 3 months, two of which were same day. Not a major problem as some here make out. I got where I needed to be and back in the time I expected with no overheating or anything close to it.

On the cheaper end of the scale 40 leaf still has its place as it has other things going for it than others do, that will certainly change next year as more choice comes on stream. I defo think anyone going for the 60kw should defo consider other cars but the 40kw has its place.

Guess as the years go by and stop at these new 150v esb charge point I'd be glad the chademo spot will be available even for how rarely I would use it.

innrain

I don't known why you see a Leaf bashing. I see more a Nissan one. Maybe what others are saying will have a greater impact.
Here is a positive review, written in 2018, but it says the same things.
https://www.edmunds.com/car-news/first-impressions/2018-nissan-leaf-first-drive.html
"New Skin, Familiar Bones

The 2018 model certainly looks like a much different car inside and out, yet it retains much of the existing Leaf platform under the skin. The Leaf's fundamental floorpan, steering and suspension geometry are intact, albeit with revised tuning."

While some appeciate the familiarity the majority feels let down by Nissan by not bringing any major innovation until now, instead squeezing as much as possible from the old one. The first wave of Leaf owners were technically minded and they felt frustrated by this.

Zenith74

innrain wrote: »

I don't known why you see a Leaf bashing. I see more a Nissan one. Maybe what others are saying will have a greater impact.
Here is a positive review, written in 2018, but it says the same things.
https://www.edmunds.com/car-news/first-impressions/2018-nissan-leaf-first-drive.html
"New Skin, Familiar Bones

The 2018 model certainly looks like a much different car inside and out, yet it retains much of the existing Leaf platform under the skin. The Leaf's fundamental floorpan, steering and suspension geometry are intact, albeit with revised tuning."

I mean it's worth pointing out that the "New Skin, Familiar Bones" is in reference to the floorpan, steering and suspension, not all of the various electrical components that have been discussed further up in this thread as supposedly needing iteration. In fact on the whole car the article says
"With its improved driving dynamics, longer range and additional poke, the 2018 Nissan Leaf is a comprehensively improved car. That it is no more expensive than its predecessor is a pleasantly unusual bonus." which has kind been my point all along.

Laviski

if the leaf stayed with he original design would have steered well clear. The new design is what it should have been all along, plus the base versionnow comes with alot of features as standard, don't see value in premium for the type of car that it is.

anyways back on topic.
Chademo will be around for at least 10/15 years, that even if there were no new cars with that in Europe any longer (which isn't going to happen until leaf is revamped again or discontinued), there is a lot of inventory out there with Chademo and will be catered for, at least from esb ecars. the chills for CCS user's must be spiking. To think otherwise would be foolish.

the repeated same statements is pointless.

liamog

I'll update the Google Sheet with the updated numbers from beepbeep when they are available tomorrow.
The likelihood is that the current number of CHAdeMO chargers is enough to serve current and future demand.

innrain

looking at the stats for new car registration for July. Leaf down to 106 from 293 in July 2019. Would be safe to assume that the rest of 650+ new EVs maybe with he exception of twizy are CCS?

liamog

By rights we should be putting the 15 Tesla's as CCS (Model X and S only) but I'm leaving them for the moment. Data is updated on the spreadsheet.

Connector|July 2020
AC|3
CCS|550
CHAdeMO|129
FastAC|114
Tesla|15

ELM327

The Teslas are CCS. All Teslas sold since 2019 are natively sold with CCS.

liamog

I don't have a mechanism to separate the used and new models, as beep-beep registers used cars in the month they were imported. The numbers are so low it doesn't make a difference

Laviski

do you have totals of all electric cars to date by model?
we are somewhere around the 10k mark?

innrain

Nice data grab.
We have a bit less thank 11.7 k EVs in total, from which nearly 7k were sold in the last 19 months. From these 4k are CCS and 2k Chademo. From the 2k Chademo units, a quarter (510) are used imports while CCS used stands at 128 units. We already see a 2:1 ratio which I believe with the introduction of ID3 would only go up.

liamog

It's from beepbeep, so is recorded registrations new and used. Some of the cars in the number may be off the road due to accidents or exports.

Laviski

innrain wrote: »

Nice data grab.
We have a bit less thank 11.7 k EVs in total, from which nearly 7k were sold in the last 19 months. From these 4k are CCS and 2k Chademo. From the 2k Chademo units, a quarter (510) are used imports while CCS used stands at 128 units. We already see a 2:1 ratio which I believe with the introduction of ID3 would only go up.

how did you come up with the 11.7 k ?
from looking at the data going back through the years to 2009 there is only 8.5k electric
(filters are "total new registrations" and engine type "electric")

are you including hybrids?

electric only totals would be.
*table updated

Make Model TotalUnits Total&Units
NISSAN LEAF 3764 40%
HYUNDAI KONA 1483 16%
HYUNDAI IONIQ 641 7%
TESLA MODEL 3 636 7%
RENAULT ZOE 629 7%
VOLKSWAGEN E GOLF 494 5%
KIA NIRO 310 3%
BMW I3 309 3%
VOLKSWAGEN E GOLF 255 3%
KIA SOUL 222 2%
TESLA MODEL S 165 2%
AUDI E-TRON 119 1%
TESLA MODEL X 90 1%
RENAULT FLUENCE 72 1%
MINI MINI CLUBMAN 56 1%
OPEL CORSA 56 1%
PEUGEOT 208 55 1%
JAGUAR I-PACE 53 1%
RENAULT TWIZY 19 0%



there are others but less than 20 not listed

liamog

You are missing 2,400 used imports.
And your numbers are short, the data I've collected from beepbeep show's 1483 new Kona's and 3,764 Leaf's.

For the Kona it's 2 in 2018, 1086 in 2019, and 395 in 2020.
The missing Kona's match the number sold between August and December last year, any reason you don't like those months

Laviski

month was "not set"
as said only had two filters and total new registrations doesn't included imports?

correction - my 2019 figures got messed up within excel so corrected that now and updated table. Total 9506 Electric, can't account for the 2400 you mentioned.

liamog

Laviski wrote: »

month was "not set"
as said only had two filters and total new registrations doesn't included imports?

Yeah, it's a bit annoying, the best example is the numbers for 2017 Electric Nissans.

Total New Registrations: 260
New Irish Registrations: 260
New Imports: 0
Used Imports: 379

Basically to get a total figure you have to add Total New Registrations and Used Imports.

Laviski

that is simply retarded, why have "total" when it isn't... jeez

Laviski

okay it adds up now.
so the state of play as of July 2020, 11783 electric cars. The early years some cars are marked as UNIDENTIFIED or no model stated. (of that we are talking 20 units)

just listed the top 20

Rank Make Model TotalUnits Total %
1 NISSAN LEAF 5369 46%
2 HYUNDAI KONA 1485 13%
3 RENAULT ZOE 839 7%
4 HYUNDAI IONIQ 695 6%
5 TESLA MODEL 3 636 5%
6 VOLKSWAGEN E GOLF 494 4%
7 BMW I3 405 3%
8 TESLA MODEL S 391 3%
9 KIA NIRO 310 3%
10 VOLKSWAGEN E GOLF 257 2%
11 KIA SOUL 238 2%
12 AUDI E-TRON 119 1%
13 TESLA MODEL X 90 1%
14 RENAULT FLUENCE 78 1%
15 JAGUAR I-PACE 69 1%
16 MINI MINI CLUBMAN 56 0%
17 OPEL CORSA 56 0%
18 PEUGEOT 208 55 0%
19 RENAULT TWIZY 21 0%
20 MITSUBISHI I-MIEV 16 0%

ELM327

So we're already over 50% CCS?

liamog

Still about 750 short, between the Model S & Model X (519) and Zoe's which could be CCS, then it could well be even. I think you agreed to exclude them as part of the bet.

ELM327

S and X all are CCS anyway.
I'm still waiting to find the text of the bet

liamog

Laviski wrote: »

okay it adds up now.
so the state of play as of July 2020, 11783 electric cars. The early years some cars are marked as UNIDENTIFIED or no model stated. (of that we are talking 20 units)

The numbers on my Google Sheet are a little different, Kona matches. Leaf is 5406, double checked that number on beepbeep, so you are still missing something.

liamog

ELM327 wrote: »

S and X all are CCS anyway.
I'm still waiting to find the text of the bet

Is the CHAdeMO adapter still compatible (even if it's not sold) with the new ones, there is no point adding it as a mark in both columns.

Stealthirl

So almost half the Irish BEV car fleet is represented by just 1 car. Are you leaving out commercial ENV200's

ELM327

liamog wrote: »

Is the CHAdeMO adapter still compatible (even if it's not sold) with the new ones, there is no point adding it as a mark in both columns.

Compatible yes but not supplied with.
Hence what I was saying about natively supporting CCS as out of the factory you can rock up to a CCS point and charge.

liamog

ELM327 wrote: »

Compatible yes but not supplied with.
Hence what I was saying about natively supporting CCS as out of the factory you can rock up to a CCS point and charge.

So after 2019, they are supplied with the CCS adapter? Cool.

Laviski

Stealthirl wrote: »

So almost half the Irish BEV car fleet is represented by just 1 car. Are you leaving out commercial ENV200's

data i collected was for passenger only electric vehicles for which i saw the following.

Rank Make Model TotalUnits
24 NISSAN EVALIA 7
25 NISSAN NV200 PASSENGER 7


from sifting through the light commercial id say your only talking 600-700 in total for light commercial (light vans), it isn't massive but the uptake on that but has grown a lot last year with 334 in comparison to the previous year which are less than 100 and going considerably less as you go back.
its great to see some stats but the tool on the site is just rubbish for collecting yearly totals, yet to go back and look through to see why my figures are slightly lighter than liamog's for passenger data.

liamog

Did you figure out where your missing Leaf's were, you can cross check against the sheet I published https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1tB_jWJf5cZjw36mn9enQ_vU0JDuDe1s-ZE4xFyFwgkI/edit#gid=1699030877&range=M5

Stealthirl

Laviski wrote: »

data i collected was for passenger only electric vehicles for which i saw the following.

Rank Make Model TotalUnits
24 NISSAN EVALIA 7
25 NISSAN NV200 PASSENGER 7

I had a look and came up with this
2012
Kangoo 51

2013
Kangoo 7

2014
Kangoo 8
eNV200 3

2015
eNV200 16
Kangoo 4

2016
eNV200 9
Kangoo 4
Tesla 1

2017
eNV200 36
Berlingo 4
Kango 1

2018
Kangoo 42
Berlingo 27
eNV200 22

2019
Kangoo 175
eNV200 94
LDV80 40
Zoe 16
Berlingo 2
Kango 2
Master 2
Vito 2

2020 [so far]
Kangoo 54
eNV200 48
Master 3
LDV80 2
Vito 1
e208 1

Plus a handful of GOUPIL G3 i ignored

1. Renault Kangoo - 346
2. Nissan eNV200 - 228
3. LDV80 - 75
4. Citroën Berlingo - 33
5. Renault Zoe - 16
6. Renault Master - 5
7. Mercedes-Benz Vito - 3
8. Peugeot e208 - 1

Total = 782 (790's with the Goupil G3's)

Laviski

As said 2019 was a spectacular uptake for light commercial, but in grand scheme a long way to go.

McGiver

ELM327 wrote:

S and X all are CCS anyway. I'm still waiting to find the text of the bet

I'll try finding it

liamog

Another good month for CCS, there are now with just 540 cars between CCS and CHAdeMO. With the release of the ID.3 this month, I think we may well see CCS squeak ahead of CHAdeMO by year end.

Make|Model|New|Used|Total
AUDI|E-TRON|9||9
BMW|I3|2||2
HYUNDAI|IONIQ|9|1|10
|KONA|36||36
KIA|NIRO|65||65
|SOUL|54|3|57
MERCEDES-BENZ|EQC|1||1
MG|UNIDENTIFIED||1|1
MINI|MINI CLUBMAN|6||6
|MINI HATCH|2||2
NISSAN|LEAF|17|22|39
OPEL|CORSA|9||9
PEUGEOT|208|15||15
|2008|3||3
|ION ELECTRIC||1|1
PORSCHE|TAYCAN|6||6
RENAULT|TWIZY|1||1
|ZOE|27|1|28
TESLA|MODEL 3|27||27
|MODEL S|1|4|5
VOLKSWAGEN|E GOLF|6||6
Grand Total||296|33|329

innrain

Big drop for Nissan. It is going to be an unusual quarter as some companies would push to get into the 0% BIK scheme as new entrants after 31/12/2020 do not qualify. ID3 new deliveries would also push CCS. From the 22 EV models sold as new this year only 2 (?) with CHAdeMO. Yeah we might see CHAdeMO loosing the throne this year.

the_amazing_raisin

Yeah looks like Chademo is on a definite decline. Those Leafs won't go anywhere for a while yet, so hopefully DC chargers will keep supporting Chademo for a while yet. I suspect new installations will be CCS only soon, the way Ionity went

liamog

This months numbers unsurprisingly a lot of ID.3's registered.
CCS is now at 5543
CHAdeMO at 5575.

Very close to calling this a win for ELM327

Make|Model|New|Used
AUDI|E-TRON|13|1
BMW|I3|8|
HYUNDAI|IONIQ|6|1
|KONA|57|
JAGUAR|I-PACE||3
KIA|NIRO|52|
|SOUL|6|1
MERCEDES-BENZ|E CLASS||1
MG|UNIDENTIFIED||2
MINI|MINI CLUBMAN|13|
|MINI HATCH|8|
NISSAN|LEAF|51|31
OPEL|CORSA|3|
PEUGEOT|208|9|
|2008|1|
PORSCHE|OTHER PORSCHE||1
|TAYCAN|3|
RENAULT|ZOE|15|1
SMART|FORTWO||2
TESLA|MODEL 3|162|
|MODEL S|8|7
|MODEL X|6|
VOLKSWAGEN|E GOLF|5|
|ID|238|
Grand Total||664|51

JohnC.

What is “Other Porsche”? Maybe a classic conversion or something?

ELM327

probably a badly registered taycan

slave1

Model 3 still selling well and although modest the S imports are in line with domestic sales, loopy Ioniq figure, they really messed that car up

liamog

I don't editorialise the results, I just take what beepbeep records, that's why the Mini Clubmans are left in, I exclude them for the purposes of CHAdeMO vs CCS numbers

ELM327

I think there's a clubman phev

cannco253

Looks like you might be able to convert a Leaf to CCS next year if you wanted to...

https://muxsan.com/English/faq.html#future-products

Will you offer CCS fast charging upgrades?
Yes, probably early 2021

ELM327

I'm not surprised. The connectors and software behind them are not that different. The comms protocol iss different but apart from that should be a straight hardware swapout and reconfig. Tesla are doing it already, albeit with an associated CCS to DC type 2 adapter

liamog

ELM327 wrote: »

I think there's a clubman phev

There is, no idea why they are being recorded as electric though in the beepbeep stats, must be someone selecting the wrong option when submitting the data. As far as I can tell it's the only phev that shows up incorrectly. They're recorded in the A0 tax class, A1 should be used for them.

KCross

liamog wrote: »

... must be someone selecting the wrong option when submitting the data.

They've the ID.3 listed as "ID" and an "estate" so that is quite likely! :pac:

Should be fun trying to separate out the VW figures when the ID.4 comes on stream and it too gets bundled in as an "ID"!

liamog

KCross wrote: »

They've the ID.3 listed as "ID" and an "estate" so that is quite likely! :pac:

Should be fun trying to separate out the VW figures when the ID.4 comes on stream and it too gets bundled in as an "ID"!

So far their have been 6 Mini Convertible's registered and 1 Mini Contertible. I think SIMI need to do some data quality work

unkel

cannco253 wrote: »

Looks like you might be able to convert a Leaf to CCS next year if you wanted to...

https://muxsan.com/English/faq.html#future-products

That's great. The CHAdeMO car owners can pay for those conversions if they want to keep up to date. Like I paid for my car's conversion to CCS a couple of weeks ago. So the tax payer no longer has to pay for any new CHAdeMO charger installs. Insane to waste public money on obsolete tech.

liamog

unkel wrote: »

That's great. The CHAdeMO car owners can pay for those conversions if they want to keep up to date. Like I paid for my car's conversion to CCS a couple of weeks ago. So the tax payer no longer has to pay for any new CHAdeMO charger installs. Insane to waste public money on obsolete tech.

Now this is an area that we'd all benefit from if SEAI were to introduce a grant.

unkel

liamog wrote: »

Now this is an area that we'd all benefit from if SEAI were to introduce a grant.

Grants are always poor use of public funds as the money mostly ends up in someone's pocket it wasn't intended for. SEAI grant for new EVs goes mostly to the manufacturer / dealer. SEAI grant for charger install goes mostly to the installer. SEAI grant for PV install goes mostly to the installer. Etc.

So, no. No grant!

ELM327

I think SEAI should introduce a grant that does not apply retroactively, to CCS conversion and retrofit.
Just so Unkel is done out of money for once!!