CHAdeMO v CCS

Fingleberries · 29-09-2021 02:35PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117954015#Comment_117954015

I thought they weren't bringing out a BEV until the end of 2022?

AndyBoBandy · 29-09-2021 03:06PM

The Lexus BEV that's available is CHAdeMO, so I'm guessing when theres a Toyota BEV.................... eventually................... available in Europe, it will have CHAdeMO as standard, because who needs to charge faster than 50kW? or 62kW or whatever it maxes out at.....

Toyota are one of the founders of CHAdeMO, so you know its the only horse they're going to back...

https://global.toyota/en/detail/337606

The irony of Toyota's current advertising schtick of 'don't get held up plugging in' to eventually being the cars that will have to spend the longest at the chargers will not be lost on folk.

Fingleberries · 29-09-2021 06:51PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117954553#Comment_117954553

Ouch. They really backed all the wrong horses for popularity this generation - Hydrogen and also CHAdeMO

graememk · 29-09-2021 07:13PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117954553#Comment_117954553

Even if they do put chademo in Japan, it's gonna be ccs in Europe, as it's a eu regulation now along with the type 2 for ac.

kennethsmyth · 29-09-2021 10:42PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117955665#Comment_117955665

I believe any car manufacturer will put ccs in for Europe, however I don't believe its eu regulation as chademo where going to sue the eu if ccs was the only allowed standard due to chademo being here first and the European car manufacturers essentially creating a senario to slow down the asian ev's with their ccs standard.

kennethsmyth · 29-09-2021 10:43PM

CCS and Chademo are both considered eu standards but no new cars will bring in chademo unless countries force electricity providers to install chademo along with ccs.

graememk · 30-09-2021 07:56AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117957044#Comment_117957044

Pulled the citation from Wikipedia

[1] Directive 2014/94/EU (on the deployment of alternative fuels infrastructure) (Report). European Parliament. 22 October 2014. Appendix II … Technical specifications for recharging points … Direct current (DC) high power recharging points for electric vehicles shall be equipped, for interoperability purposes, at least with connectors of the combined charging system 'Combo 2' as described in standard EN 62196-3.

All these things are for new cars, that's why they didn't change the leaf (but they did put the type 2 connector on it)

AndyBoBandy · 30-09-2021 08:17AM

What about the Lexus UX 300e? Did it sneak through with its CHAdeMO plug before the above regulation for CCS came into being?

liamog · 30-09-2021 11:54AM

Thats a regulation for chargers not for the vehicle. All newly installed DC chargers must at least have a CCS plug

Red Silurian · 30-09-2021 01:01PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117952120#Comment_117952120

Makes sense... I'd say Chademo accounts for almost 50% of network usage over here as sales of the Nissan Leaf took off much earlier so there is far more of them around

AndyBoBandy · 30-09-2021 01:20PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117958691#Comment_117958691

About 66% CCS & 34% CHAdeMO according to @Black_Knight

and growing by the day as CCS cars outsell Leaf's now by about 6/1

ted1 · 30-09-2021 01:27PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117958691#Comment_117958691

Far from it and I’d say once dealers can actually deliver cars it’ll be even smaller

ELM327 · 04-10-2021 08:58AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117958691#Comment_117958691

50% chademo usage? That's hilariously inaccurate. It's not even 50% by time (CCS is 2:1 ahead on that) but I suspect by kWh delivered CCS is miles further ahead as the only cars that have chademo have teeny batteries and charge slowly

kennethsmyth · 06-10-2021 06:33PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117957566#Comment_117957566

Thats for chargers always having ccs alongside others not the cars.

kennethsmyth · 05-11-2021 04:52PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117973196#Comment_117973196

Well there maybe a little more to this than just the amount of cars with ccs or chademo. Do more ccs cars have further range? If so there is a chance that the smaller battery leafs (other than the 62kw) have to charge more often and thus may use more chargers?

innrain · 10-01-2022 12:11PM

Maybe not relevant anymore but for historical reasons.

In 2021 Nissan and Lexus sold 755 units with CHAdeMO. I'm guessing all ZOEs in 2021 dropped Fast AC and got CCS. That means that the rest from 8646 are CCS. I have a table from liamog's data and I updated for 2021 keeping S/X as Tesla connectors (5)

In 2021 were sold 8.73% CHAdeMO but the absolute figures are more important, as more CCS cars were sold in 2021 alone than CHAdeMO in the whole time.

I'm thinking in 2022 CHA will not reach 500 units while CCS will go over 15k making the ratio at least 4:1

liamog · 10-01-2022 12:35PM

Thanks innrain, looks like we've gone from a total 1:1 ratio to a 2:1 ration in 12 months

ELM327 · 10-01-2022 12:37PM

Yes and probably 4 or 5 to one in 12 months time. Considering that one chademo car is sold for every ten CCS now.

AndyBoBandy · 10-01-2022 12:49PM

Its a good job then that every ESB eCars fast charging site (with the exception of Mayfield) has a 50/50 split between CCS/CHAdeMO, including all the new ones being installed/upgraded.

liamog · 10-01-2022 12:56PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118448646#Comment_118448646

I think they are right to install charging sites with at least 2 CHAdeMO points, it alleviates the single point of failure problem. In the sites where they install 1 50kW DC and 1 150kW DC I would prefer they install the site as 50kW DC (1xCHAdeMO + 1xCCS), 150kW DC (1xCHAdeMO + 2xCCS), or rather they install 2 of the 150kW units in that same config to allow up to 4 CCS cars to charge at once, they also really need to stop installing the 22kW socket on the DC chargers. The usage stats for Blanch show how ridiculous that concept is.

Any site bigger than that should have a max of 2 CHAdeMO plugs.

Laviski · 10-01-2022 06:21PM

stop talking sense.....

Black_Knight · 12-01-2022 07:58AM

Must break out the ecars CCS vs CHAdeMO stats later today. Last I checked it was like 67% CCS charging. And last I checked the 70kW CHAdeMO plug on the 150kW unit was used flip all. Likely only when the 50kW is in use or blocked. Nothing wrong with that, is called redundancy, but CCS users don't have that same redundancy since their plugs are in high demand and use.

ELM327 · 12-01-2022 11:29AM

One could argue it's a reason to buy a chademo equipped car. Your own private network.

AndyBoBandy · 12-01-2022 12:53PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118459994#Comment_118459994

Thats what I've been saying all along.. buy a Nissan Leaf and you have your own almost private network!!

50% of plugs at all eCars sites (except Mayfield) are CHAdeMO, which at single unit sites doesn't really matter, but when you get to the multi unit sites, you have a dedicated 'private' plug.

Black_Knight · 12-01-2022 01:20PM

Over the last 2 weeks...

CCS - 28.64 weeks of usage - 68% of usage

CHAdeMO - 13.34 weeks of usage - 32% of usage

CCS 150kW plug - 4.46 weeks of usage

CHAdeMO 70kW plug - 1.15 weeks of usage

So not flip all 70kW usage, but you can see it's lying idle a lot more than CCS.

AndyBoBandy · 12-01-2022 01:38PM

I bet they are only using the 70kW because someone was using the 50kW unit.... can your data show if the CCS or CHAdeMO usage on the 50kW unit overlapped with the 70kW CHAdeMO at the same site?