CHAdeMO v CCS

Stealthirl · 16-12-2019 2:01am #1

Originally posted as a reply but thought it was worth it's own thread

On the Chademo v CCS issue
Currently there are

Chademo
Nissan EVs registered here (leaf/ENV) - 3,239
The triplets (Mitsubishi I-MIEV/Peugeot Ion/Citroën C-Zero) - 18
Total = 3,257 (could not find any 1st gen soul EVs oddly

)

CCS
Hyundai Kona - 1,084
Hyundai Ioniq - 460
E-Golf - 338
BMW i3 - 246
Kia Niro - 72
Kia e-Soul - 62
Audi e-tron - 44
Jaguar I-Pace - 42
Mercedes-Benz EQC - 4
Total = 2,352

Tesla
Model S - 184
Model 3 - 168 CCS
Model X - 81
Total = 433

Type2 only
Zoe 465

Could not find any Mercedes-Benz B class or Smart EV numbers

Left out the Twizzy as it's only 3pin

Thats a total of 6,507 with Chademo representing just over 50% and CCS just over 36%
Yes Chademo is in decline but with the Leaf being so popular it will be a long time before it's gone as there's no indication it would switch to CCS

I don't think i left any BEV's out and my sums are right but open to correction.

Dardania · 16-12-2019 9:05am

Stealthirl wrote: »

On the Chademo v CCS issue
Currently there are

Chademo
Nissan EVs registered here (leaf/ENV) - 3,239
The triplets (Mitsubishi I-MIEV/Peugeot Ion/Citroën C-Zero) - 18
Total = 3,257 (could not find any 1st gen soul EVs oddly )

CCS
Hyundai Kona - 1,084
Hyundai Ioniq - 460
E-Golf - 338
BMW i3 - 246
Kia Niro - 72
Kia e-Soul - 62
Audi e-tron - 44
Jaguar I-Pace - 42
Mercedes-Benz EQC - 4
Total = 2,352

Tesla
Model S - 184
Model 3 - 168 CCS
Model X - 81
Total = 433

Type2 only
Zoe 465

Could not find any Mercedes-Benz B class or Smart EV numbers

Left out the Twizzy as it's only 3pin

Thats a total of 6,507 with Chademo representing just over 50% and CCS just over 36%
Yes Chademo is in decline but with the Leaf being so popular it will be a long time before it's gone as there's no indication it would switch to CCS

I don't think i left any BEV's out and my sums are right but open to correction.

Very revealing numbers, and yes deserves it's own thread. I didn't realise just how strong the leafs numbers were.

It's an interesting design decision by Renault with the zoe- do they take both ac and DC over that type 2 connector?

krissovo · 16-12-2019 9:13am

If you arrange the data by year of manufacture I expect the data will tell a very different story.

L1011 · 16-12-2019 9:17am

Some of the PHEVs are Chademo-only also aren't they? That would add to the overall demand even if not BEV

thos · 16-12-2019 10:04am

Tesla Model S/X made after May 2019 also include CCS adapter, and available for older stock.

slave1 · 16-12-2019 10:26am

Tesla S/X have as an option a Chademo adaptor too

ELM327 · 16-12-2019 10:35am

This is an interesting thread

1 - Chademo - most popular now due to high supply of leafs since 2011. Limited to 50kW.

2 - CCS All other evs. Newer. Will be majority very shortly. Limited to 350kW, max is currently 270 (Taycan) and 250 (Model 3)

2 will win out, but 1 will be around for the next few years as a legacy

Dardania · 16-12-2019 10:39am

ELM327 wrote: »

This is an interesting thread

1 - Chademo - most popular now due to high supply of leafs since 2011. Limited to 50kW.

2 - CCS All other evs. Newer. Will be majority very shortly. Limited to 350kW, max is currently 270 (Taycan) and 250 (Model 3)

2 will win out, but 1 will be around for the next few years as a legacy

With Chademo, I thought it was going to achieve a first mover status due to support V2G...

ELM327 · 16-12-2019 10:42am

Dardania wrote: »

With Chademo, I thought it was going to achieve a first mover status due to support V2G...

V2G is already supported by type2 AC, and the next version of CCS will support it at chademo speed.
That first mover "advantage" won't last long.

V2H is more realistic, and for that, 7-11kW on type2 AC is a lot better than 43kW on chademo

jusmeig · 16-12-2019 11:08am

Bit of VHS vs BetaMax going on here.
BetaMax was technically superior, but VHS won the war.

Tesla is arguably CCS -> All M3's are CCS, only a handful of S/X's.
Chademo will wane greatly now, as the manufacturers using it and selling cars here have much smaller volume that the ones incoming.
It highlights one thing -> history is doomed to repeat itself!!

ELM327 · 16-12-2019 11:11am

jusmeig wrote: »

Bit of VHS vs BetaMax going on here.
BetaMax was technically superior, but VHS won the war.

Tesla is arguably CCS -> All M3's are CCS, only a handful of S/X's.
Chademo will wane greatly now, as the manufacturers using it and selling cars here have much smaller volume that the ones incoming.
It highlights one thing -> history is doomed to repeat itself!!

S and X are CCS now too.

For used cars you can spend 500€ on CCS for 150kW, or 500€ on chademo for 50kW!

(I got both for free, and have yet to use my chademo adapter, as if I'm using DC, I want the highest speed possible)

KCross · 16-12-2019 1:11pm

Stealthirl wrote: »

Thats a total of 6,507 with Chademo representing just over 50% and CCS just over 36%
Yes Chademo is in decline but with the Leaf being so popular it will be a long time before it's gone as there's no indication it would switch to CCS

I'd say it will be close to 50/50 by the end of 2020.

In 2021 when VW unleash the ID.3 in big numbers and you have all the others ramping up (e208, Corsa, El-born etc) CCS will sprint ahead at that stage... so not long at all really... 12 months ish.

Im sure CHAdeMO will be around for a long time. Most new charge points (except Ionity of course) will support it so nothing to fear by buying a Leaf.

The faster CCS charging speeds dont matter much to the Leaf anyway as the L40 can only take <50kW and the L62 wont take much more than 50kW so the speed is irrelevant. All that matters is charger availability and that doesnt look like its going to be an issue.

At the end of the day its just a plug, its not at all like VHS/Betamax. Think of it more like the different connectors on mobiles. That doesnt stop people buying Android or iOS. As long as you can charge it you buy the one that you like.

liamog · 16-12-2019 1:18pm

So basically for currently available to purchase EVs in Europe we have

CHAdeMO - A proprietary connector used by the Renault Nissan Mitsubishi Alliance
CCS - Everyone else

Silent Running · 16-12-2019 4:40pm

liamog wrote: »

So basically for currently available to purchase EVs in Europe we have

CHAdeMO - A proprietary connector used by the Renault Nissan Mitsubishi Alliance
CCS - Everyone else

Isn't the new Zoe CCS?

Disclaimer: might be talking out of me hole here.

Mickeroo · 16-12-2019 4:46pm

Silent Running wrote: »

Isn't the new Zoe CCS?

Disclaimer: might be talking out of me hole here.

It is, though it may be an optional extra.

ELM327 · 16-12-2019 4:47pm

Silent Running wrote: »

Isn't the new Zoe CCS?

Disclaimer: might be talking out of me hole here.

Yup, new zoe has 22kW AC and 50kW CCS DC

September1 · 16-12-2019 4:51pm

I think it should be also mentioned that Chademo has more locations where you can fast charge for free (Nissan dealerships) while CCS has more multicharger locations (Ionity).

ELM327 · 16-12-2019 5:23pm

September1 wrote: »

I think it should be also mentioned that Chademo has more locations where you can fast charge for free (Nissan dealerships) while CCS has more multicharger locations (Ionity).

Can non Nissan cars use them though?
Can I just rock up in my Tesla? (Unlikely!)

JohnC. · 16-12-2019 5:41pm

September1 wrote: »

I think it should be also mentioned that Chademo has more locations where you can fast charge for free (Nissan dealerships) while CCS has more multicharger locations (Ionity).

How many dealerships have fast chargers? The two in Waterford just have standard Rolec Wallpods, like people can install at home. Unless they upgraded recently.

krissovo · 16-12-2019 6:09pm

September1 wrote: »

I think it should be also mentioned that Chademo has more locations where you can fast charge for free (Nissan dealerships) while CCS has more multicharger locations (Ionity).

Its come in handy for me a couple of times but some dealerships are more friendly than others. Usually they are blocked or are in use if you just turn up, if you call in advance they will often clear the space for you.

loopymum · 16-12-2019 6:16pm

krissovo wrote: »

Its come in handy for me a couple of times but some dealerships are more friendly than others. Usually they are blocked or are in use if you just turn up, if you call in advance they will often clear the space for you.

That's handy to know, I just got a 24kwh leaf

September1 · 16-12-2019 7:22pm

ELM327 wrote: »

Can non Nissan cars use them though?
Can I just rock up in my Tesla? (Unlikely!)

They would work with any compatible car and I think Nissan only requires them to provide free charing for Nissan cars, but does not prevent free or paid charging for other cars. If you ever get a chance to test it, please let us know.

ELM327 · 17-12-2019 10:35am

September1 wrote: »

They would work with any compatible car and I think Nissan only requires them to provide free charing for Nissan cars, but does not prevent free or paid charging for other cars. If you ever get a chance to test it, please let us know.

MIght head down to Randle's actually
They turned off their chademo until they could charge for it. Now they charge a 5 euro connection fee with no usage charge. I'll rock up with 2% and charge to 100 for five quid!

September1 · 17-12-2019 1:10pm

ELM327 wrote: »

MIght head down to Randle's actually
They turned off their chademo until they could charge for it. Now they charge a 5 euro connection fee with no usage charge. I'll rock up with 2% and charge to 100 for five quid!

Update us about how it works in practice.

loopymum · 17-12-2019 1:49pm

September1 wrote: »

Update us about how it works in practice.

Is that Randles in Killarney? Says 29c kw on ecars?

ELM327 · 17-12-2019 2:02pm

loopymum wrote: »

Is that Randles in Killarney? Says 29c kw on ecars?

Its not an ecars unit

loopymum · 17-12-2019 6:09pm

ELM327 wrote: »

Its not an ecars unit

not doubting you but if it's not an ecars unit why is not showing as a third party unit on ecars? and why is it saying 29c per kw? I'm new to all this but I was in Killarney on Sunday and was glad that I hadn't taken the leaf when I was checking out chargers there as it was down on the app, I checked yesterday adn it was back up I think but down again now

ELM327 · 18-12-2019 9:43am

loopymum wrote: »

not doubting you but if it's not an ecars unit why is not showing as a third party unit on ecars? and why is it saying 29c per kw? I'm new to all this but I was in Killarney on Sunday and was glad that I hadn't taken the leaf when I was checking out chargers there as it was down on the app, I checked yesterday adn it was back up I think but down again now

ESB list all the nissan dealer chademo on their app too.
If it's displaying as 29c/kWh it's false

innrain · 18-12-2019 12:26pm

loopymum wrote: »

Is that Randles in Killarney? Says 29c kw on ecars?

ESB lists a wrong location for they FCP in Killarney. Plugshare has the right location. The Nissan garage is in the vicinity, literally behind the petrol station, maybe they own the land there but the FCP it is at the Maxol station

https://www.plugshare.com/location/34896. The GPS coordinates on the ESB map is away by a good bit. https://myaccount.esbecars.com/findCharger?52.0506500,-9.5071170,17z,Randles%20Garage%20(Nissan),%20Muckross%20Road,%20Killarney,%20Kerry,23si

Stealthirl · 23-12-2019 7:45am

krissovo wrote: »

If you arrange the data by year of manufacture I expect the data will tell a very different story.

Nope top selling every year has been Chademo until this year.
2019 so far
1085 new and 372 used Chademo = 1473 excluding PHEVs and Tesla adapters
1988 new and 88 used CCS = 2076 excluding PHEVs and Tesla S/X

No single BEV has sold more then a leaf until maybe this year with the Kona.

2018/2017 looked like this for new sales (thanks to www.irishevowners.ie)

So on just new sales
2018 = 807(env-200 van sales inc) for chademo and 234 for CCS
2017 was = 294(env-200 van sales inc) for chademo and 253for CCS

Silent Running · 23-12-2019 9:57am

Stealthirl wrote: »

No single BEV has sold more then a leaf until maybe this year with the Kona.

I wouldn't be so sure. Two Hyundai dealers near me have no Kona orders for January delivery. One has no Ioniq deliveries and the other has two for January.

I think Hyundai might have been found out. The Kona they brought to Ireland was a disgrace. A stripped out spec in a cynical money grab. I hope this is the backlash for that. The buying public aren't as stupid as some businesses think.

CHAdeMO v CCS

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