Formula 1 2020 - General Discussion Thread (See MOD warning on first post)

El_Duderino 09

vectra wrote: »

I said it before and I will say it again,
I wouldn't be Vettel's biggest fan, I do like the guy as a racer. BUT
For someone to come on here and blatantly try to say he is done and dusted by trying to make it seem impossible that one guy can feel comfortable in a race car while the other cannot, that same poster apparently sees no grey area in anything. It is either black or white. ( as long as it is his black or white ).

Be sure to let us know when someone says he’s done and dusted. I haven’t seen anyone say that. Maybe you could point it out if you can think of an example....

I’ll save you the bother because nobody has said it. All we can judge a driver’s current form on, is their performances on track. You’re way to defensive of an accurate description of Vettel’s performance level being well below LeClerc’s and well below his own level from when he was a much better driver. You’ve even exaggerated the claim from Vettel having poor form for the last 2 and a half seasons to being “done and dusted”.

recyclebin

ELM327 wrote: »

Watching the 2010 abu dhabi GP at the mo on sky f1
interesting viewing!

F1 have a 5 minute recap of this race on Facebook or YouTube. Four drivers could have won the championship going into the last race! I had completely forgot that.

El_Duderino 09

recyclebin wrote: »

F1 have a 5 minute recap of this race on Facebook or YouTube. Four drivers could have won the championship going into the last race! I had completely forgot that.

Yeah people often remember that year as a red bull dominance, but it wasn’t. Vettel had to fight really hard to win that championship.

I always remember Alonso was held up behind Petrov all race which killed his chances of winning the title. And at the end of the race he gave out loads to Petrov, presumably for not letting him through. I always through a that was bonkers to expect a driver to give up a position because the guy behind was in title contention.

Would a driver ever give up a position like that? And what of Petrov and Alonso were good friends?

Faugheen

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Yeah people often remember that year as a red bull dominance, but it wasn’t. Vettel had to fight really hard to win that championship.

I always remember Alonso was held up behind Petrov all race which killed his chances of winning the title. And at the end of the race he gave out loads to Petrov, presumably for not letting him through. I always through a that was bonkers to expect a driver to give up a position because the guy behind was in title contention.

Would a driver ever give up a position like that? And what of Petrov and Alonso were good friends?

It’s really interesting because Hamilton was stuck behind Kubica and Renault told him to let Hamilton go because they weren’t racing him for the final position.

Petrov pitted on lap 1 under the safety car until the end of the race, so him and Alonso was for position. Two completely different circumstances but both really interesting nonetheless.

Petrov drove a great race that day actually on the face of it.

donspeekinglesh

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Would a driver ever give up a position like that?

It's not unheard of. Sauber-Ferrari were very quick to get Fontana (I think) out of the way of Schumacher's Ferrari at Jerez 97. And McLaren were happy to have both drivers hang behind Villeneuve/Schumacher until the title was settled and there was no need to stay behind Villeneuve's hobbled car.

ELM327

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Yeah people often remember that year as a red bull dominance, but it wasn’t. Vettel had to fight really hard to win that championship.

I always remember Alonso was held up behind Petrov all race which killed his chances of winning the title. And at the end of the race he gave out loads to Petrov, presumably for not letting him through. I always through a that was bonkers to expect a driver to give up a position because the guy behind was in title contention.

Would a driver ever give up a position like that? And what of Petrov and Alonso were good friends?

It's actually a common misconception of vettel/RBR titles that it was 4 years of dominance.
At least 2 of the titles won went not only to the wire, but to a couple of points in it.

Just looking at poll for the last 4 seasons

2017: Hamilton 11 - 4 Bottas
2018: Hamilton 11 - 2 Bottas
2019: Hamilton 5 - 5 Bottas
2020: Hamilton 10 - 5 Bottas

Someone who is quite good overall but excellent in qualifying should be matching their teammate.

To be completely honest, and there's no way to prove this one way or the other, just opinion, I don't get the impression that Hamilton is performing at his peak for the last season and a half or so. I also think if it was him and Russell I could easily see him not able to raise his game back up. As a Hamilton Hater it'd be easy to use that (if it happened) as evidence that he was never that good but he'll be a 36 year old who holds all the records before next season starts so I would think we're past his peak performance.

chicorytip

LollipopJimmy wrote: »

This little prick at Haas needs to go. There is no room in F1, or anywhere in life for people that think its OK to sexually assault people. Haas have plenty of other options

He's dumb and immature like many racecar drivers. It's his on track behaviour that merits more criticism than just tweaking a titty does. He'll get that "bate" out of him in F1.

Adamocovic

Russell deciding to wear his Merc top around track today has thrown me!

Will he be racing again in the Merc? Surprised not official word (that I’ve heard) yet.

El_Duderino 09

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Just looking at poll for the last 4 seasons

2017: Hamilton 11 - 4 Bottas
2018: Hamilton 11 - 2 Bottas
2019: Hamilton 5 - 5 Bottas
2020: Hamilton 10 - 5 Bottas

Someone who is quite good overall but excellent in qualifying should be matching their teammate.

...

That's true. But he's up against an all round top driver in Hamilton. I really mean that quali is the best part of his game. Bottas' quali pace is better than his race pace. Neither are as good as Hamilton, though his quali pace is closer than his race pace.

Gaoth Laidir

murphyebass wrote: »

Bottas is a completely different story in F1 in a car a monkey could come 2nd in.

Bottas has been incredibly average in that car outside of qualification.

George made an absolute and utter joke of him last weekend.

Not that it matters as Bottas is perfect for the one two without annoying Hamilton.

So I’m really not sure what your point is tbh.

My point is that in F2 you're arguing that Mazepin (for whom you seem to have a great affection) is a great driver because he's fifth "ffs", but such an argument doesn't apply to F1, or rather to Bottas, for whom you have the ultimate hatred.

Deleted User wrote: »

Just looking at poll for the last 4 seasons

2017: Hamilton 11 - 4 Bottas
2018: Hamilton 11 - 2 Bottas
2019: Hamilton 5 - 5 Bottas
2020: Hamilton 10 - 5 Bottas

Someone who is quite good overall but excellent in qualifying should be matching their teammate.

To be completely honest, and there's no way to prove this one way or the other, just opinion, I don't get the impression that Hamilton is performing at his peak for the last season and a half or so. I also think if it was him and Russell I could easily see him not able to raise his game back up. As a Hamilton Hater it'd be easy to use that (if it happened) as evidence that he was never that good but he'll be a 36 year old who holds all the records before next season starts so I would think we're past his peak performance.

Bottas has had 5 poles this season so far.
Austria
70th Aniversary
Eifel
Emiglia-Romagna
Sakhir

https://www.statsf1.com/en/valtteri-bottas/pole.aspx

El_Duderino 09

There was an interesting piece of radio that was on the Live Timing app but i don't think was broadcast. It was after Russell's pitstops and he was cross on the radio (understandably enough). Bobo came on and simply said, "you're showing emotion now." and the said something to the effect of "head down you've got a job to do".

Interesting that they would have a radio protocol for not showing emotion on the radio and also interesting that it didn't make the Russell radio highlights

Gaoth Laidir

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

There was an interesting piece of radio that was on the Live Timing app but i don't think was broadcast. It was after Russell's pitstops and he was cross on the radio (understandably enough). Bobo came on and simply said, "you're showing emotion now." and the said something to the effect of "head down you've got a job to do".

Interesting that they would have a radio protocol for not showing emotion on the radio and also interesting that it didn't make the Russell radio highlights

I think he actually said "I'm sharing your emotion".


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGh5gBijJLM

afatbollix

All the teams now know the team radio is now broadcast on TV and all team radio is put on youtube after the event.

Its bad PR to have a crying driver (Think Alonso in the Mclaren)


Check out this from 2010 when not as much team radio was shown on TV

A lot more emotion and telling the drivers to push push push.

El_Duderino 09

Gaoth Laidir wrote: »

I think he actually said "I'm sharing your emotion".


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGh5gBijJLM

Oh right. I must have misheard

chicorytip

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Be sure to let us know when someone says he’s done and dusted. I haven’t seen anyone say that. Maybe you could point it out if you can think of an example....

I’ll save you the bother because nobody has said it. All we can judge a driver’s current form on, is their performances on track. You’re way to defensive of an accurate description of Vettel’s performance level being well below LeClerc’s and well below his own level from when he was a much better driver. You’ve even exaggerated the claim from Vettel having poor form for the last 2 and a half seasons to being “done and dusted”.

Seb has been great for Ferrari, the heartbeat of the team, really, since he joined. His ultimate aim in the sport was to win the title in a red car and he did his utmost but narrowly failed. He has been treated shabbily and his poor performance this year is simply down to him feeling unappreciated and not an indication of diminishing driving skills. A couple of good years at Aston Martin may lead to a move to Mercedes. He would be the perfect fit for that team for many reasons, not least his nationality.

ELM327

chicorytip wrote: »

Seb has been great for Ferrari, the heartbeat of the team, really, since he joined. His ultimate aim in the sport was to win the title in a red car and he did his utmost but narrowly failed. He has been treated shabbily and his poor performance this year is simply down to him feeling unappreciated and not an indication of diminishing driving skills. A couple of good years at Aston Martin may lead to a move to Mercedes. He would be the perfect fit for that team for many reasons, not least his nationality.

Agree.
Like it or not, especially since MSC but even before, winning the title in the red car has always been viewed as even a higher aspiration than just winning a WDC in general.


Seb to Mercedes would be interesting, but with the emergence of Russell as the obvious successor to Lewis and with the team being UK based (as opposed to a german based team) I dont see Seb going there. I think his best hope is that Aston Martin Tracing Point Force Spyker Midland Jordan are competitive enough given stroll's money and mercedes PU to give him a shot in '22. Same aim that Alonso has in going to Renault Lotus Alpine Benneton Toleman

Joeface

ELM327 wrote: »

Aston Martin Tracing Point Force Spyker Midland Jordan

AMTPFSMJ ....I Thought Abbreviations would be better it clearly isn't .

maybe they should go with a version of this



oddly that symbol looks like G.Russell in a Mercedes .

ELM327

ELM327 wrote: »

It's actually a common misconception of vettel/RBR titles that it was 4 years of dominance.
At least 2 of the titles won went not only to the wire, but to a couple of points in it.

Yup. And watching highlights shows that for 2 of the seasons the RB wasn't the fastest car for the majority of races. And it was only 4 years. :P

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

There was an interesting piece of radio that was on the Live Timing app but i don't think was broadcast. It was after Russell's pitstops and he was cross on the radio (understandably enough). Bobo came on and simply said, "you're showing emotion now." and the said something to the effect of "head down you've got a job to do".

Interesting that they would have a radio protocol for not showing emotion on the radio and also interesting that it didn't make the Russell radio highlights

They played it on Sky at the time I'm pretty sure.

murphyebass

Gaoth Laidir wrote: »

My point is that in F2 you're arguing that Mazepin (for whom you seem to have a great affection) is a great driver because he's fifth "ffs", but such an argument doesn't apply to F1, or rather to Bottas, for whom you have the ultimate hatred.



Bottas has had 5 poles this season so far.
Austria
70th Aniversary
Eifel
Emiglia-Romagna
Sakhir

https://www.statsf1.com/en/valtteri-bottas/pole.aspx

I don’t love or hate Mazepin. I also don’t love or hate Bottas. They are drivers in a sport that I watch for entertainment.

Honestly the only driver I dislike is Hamilton, I’ll admit that, he comes across to me as a very unlikeable, fake human being. Very good driver but I can’t stand the guy.

Back to Bottas, he is a very good qualifying driver no doubt but in race conditions even in the most powerful car on the grid has been disappointing to say the least.

Mazepin has had a solid season in F2.

Only time will tell if he has the potential to be a better driver than Bottas.

Russell humiliating Bottas last weekend though I think is very telling.

I hope he gets a chance to beat him again

Adamocovic

Also on Mazepin.

I posted here a while back how I wasn’t a fan and that he was troublesome. Linked a Reddit post going over all his social media mishaps and off track issues.

Did end it thinking a PR team would now be handling all that stuff. Boy was I wrong! What a stupid guy. In hot water before in the seat.

Haas were toothless selecting him over some of the way better on and off track drivers. Well at least it gives me a driver to route against!

Gaoth Laidir

murphyebass wrote: »

I don’t love or hate Mazepin. I also don’t love or hate Bottas. They are drivers in a sport that I watch for entertainment.

Honestly the only driver I dislike is Hamilton, I’ll admit that, he comes across to me as a very unlikeable, fake human being. Very good driver but I can’t stand the guy.

Back to Bottas, he is a very good qualifying driver no doubt but in race conditions even in the most powerful car on the grid has been disappointing to say the least.

Mazepin has had a solid season in F2.

Only time will tell if he has the potential to be a better driver than Bottas.

Russell humiliating Bottas last weekend though I think is very telling.

I hope he gets a chance to beat him again

Humiliated how exactly? I think that's a bit of an exaggeration.

El_Duderino 09

Gaoth Laidir wrote: »

Humiliated how exactly? I think that's a bit of an exaggeration.

They were evenly matched in quali and there was a pretty stable lead of 5-7 seconds for Russell. It’s a win for Russell but not a humiliating defeat for Bottas.

It gets a bit worse when you consider the fact that Russell was new to the car. It was about as much as he could do in one race but it’s still just one race. You can’t form a pattern from one race

murphyebass

Gaoth Laidir wrote: »

Humiliated how exactly? I think that's a bit of an exaggeration.

Did you watch the qualy? Or race?

Bottas a guy renowned for being the king of qualy just about out qualifies a guy who knows so little about the car he’s driving he put it into reverse by accident at one point!

He then beats him off the line and out races him until Mercedes made cock ups with the pit stops.

It was clear to most people, maybe not you, that Russell was streaks ahead of his experienced teammate.

Imagine Russell drove the car for more than a few hours. This guy has huge potential.

He looks to be on Lewis, Max level.

El_Duderino 09

chicorytip wrote: »

Seb has been great for Ferrari, the heartbeat of the team, really, since he joined. His ultimate aim in the sport was to win the title in a red car and he did his utmost but narrowly failed. He has been treated shabbily and his poor performance this year is simply down to him feeling unappreciated and not an indication of diminishing driving skills. A couple of good years at Aston Martin may lead to a move to Mercedes. He would be the perfect fit for that team for many reasons, not least his nationality.

I agree with the first half of that but I challenge the idea that he was treated so shabbily that the only logical thing to do, is half arse it for the last 2 seasons and pick up his $60m in pay checks. It’s not all shabby in my opinion.

The most shabby treatment he had from Ferrari was probably not getting a better car. The time they gave him a contending car in 2018, he started his slump.

Then in 2019 ferrari treated him shabbily by trying their young driver as his teammate. Charles treated him shabbily by beating him over the season. Ferrari then treated him shabbily by telling him they would only discuss a contract on vastly reduced terms (probably similar to what he’s getting at AM) and that was another slap in the face. Then they had some terrible team antics (they went all spaghetti again, as Lauda once said when Ferrari did a typically terrible job). The idea that they are sabotaging him is nonsense.

I think a lot of what has happened to Vettel is very embarrassing but it’s mostly his own issue -
the slump in the 2018 title contender,
losing Kimi and getting a younger, faster teammate,
the reduced terms and
most of all being complete out shon by his young teammate.

That must be very embarrassing but this notion that Ferrari has treated him so shabbily that the only logical thing to do is not try for two seasons, just doesn’t fly.

antodeco

Lewis confirmed to be racing the weekend

https://www.facebook.com/568665409957112/posts/1966294906860815/?sfnsn=mo

Frank Bullitt

Ah balls, i was going to watch the race live. Think I will skip the predictable snooze and head out on my motorbike instead.

El_Duderino 09

The legend of Russell grows. This series of events will make his eventual move to Mercedes, up there with the most anticipated moves in a long time.

murphyebass

antodeco wrote: »

Lewis confirmed to be racing the weekend

https://www.facebook.com/568665409957112/posts/1966294906860815/?sfnsn=mo

That’s a pity. Was looking forward to another open race.

As much as I dislike him I’m glad he’s ok.

Horrible bloody thing to get. Roll on the vaccine!

Harika

murphyebass wrote: »

That’s a pity. Was looking forward to another open race.

As much as I dislike him I’m glad he’s ok.

Horrible bloody thing to get. Roll on the vaccine!

Really, open race? Mercedes was leading uncontended as usual, only for their pitstop blunder to open up the race