Formula 1 2020 - General Discussion Thread (See MOD warning on first post)

flazio

vectra wrote: »

Huhh?

The point I'm getting at is even throughout his recent Ferrari stint, he'd have one or two cracker drives a year and everyone says that is good enough to warrant a seat for next year despite the fact that the other 80% of the year he's barely noticeable. Meanwhile drivers like Bottas and Albon are considered waste of seats despite getting the same amount of decent Grand Prix that he does.

jammiedodgers

Latifi and Russell confirmed for next year

https://twitter.com/JennieGow/status/1322147676100698113

chicorytip

The only elements of the cars that are tailored specifically for each individual driver are seat widths and pedal lengths. These can be changed quickly in the event of a last minute driver replacement such as Hulkenberg for Stroll recently.

ELM327

chicorytip wrote: »

The only elements of the cars that are tailored specifically for each individual driver are seat widths and pedal lengths. These can be changed quickly in the event of a last minute driver replacement such as Hulkenberg for Stroll recently.

You can't be that short sighted surely?
The feel and downforce levels and drag and tendencies can be changed. EG Alonso's renault when he won the 2 WDC was set up specifically for his turn in response. Its rumored that Max has a similar setup in the RB

AMKC

artanevilla wrote: »

I can only dream but hopefully it just means Alfa are dropping Sauber and making a proper works team.

I doubt it. They are just there as a name sponsor. It would cost far to much to go and become a works team and Alfa are just to small for that. I think they are still.owned by Fiat.
As for Kimi I really thought he would retire this year but can not blame him for doing another year if he still enjoys it and gets paid for it.

Harika

AMKC wrote: »

I doubt it. They are just there as a name sponsor. It would cost far to much to go and become a works team and Alfa are just to small for that. I think they are still.owned by Fiat.
As for Kimi I really thought he would retire this year but can not blame him for doing another year if he still enjoys it and gets paid for it.

Indeed, with the new regulations a new entry has to fork out 200 million to get a seat on the table, no factory, people nothing.

artanevilla

As I said I can only dream.

El_Duderino 09

ELM327 wrote: »

You can't be that short sighted surely?
The feel and downforce levels and drag and tendencies can be changed. EG Alonso's renault when he won the 2 WDC was set up specifically for his turn in response. Its rumored that Max has a similar setup in the RB

Yes but it is all just rumour. For all we know, the Ferrari is further from Leclers's preference than from Seb's preference. I really douby Ferrari produced the car they intended to produce this year. SO i credit both drivers with having to adapt to the car and drive as fast as they can. One driver is just faster than the other.

In any case, there's absolutely no chance that the 2019 Ferrari wasn't built with Seb in mind since they knew Kimi was leaving and Seb was staying. Leclerc beat him anyway...

El_Duderino 09

AMKC wrote: »

I doubt it. They are just there as a name sponsor. It would cost far to much to go and become a works team and Alfa are just to small for that. I think they are still.owned by Fiat.
As for Kimi I really thought he would retire this year but can not blame him for doing another year if he still enjoys it and gets paid for it.

Joe Saward was talking on Missed Apex yesterday and he reckons all the teams are gone into financial defensive mode. The FIA money to teams is being HALVED next year and that's why Russell is out and Perez is in at Williams Perez and Latifi bring money, simple as that. Likewise the Haas boys are out because Schumacher brings money and the other new boy (Mazipane?) brings money too.

Russell to be reserve at Mercedes and he will hope to jump into Bottas' seat in 2021.

ELM327

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Joe Saward was talking on Missed Apex yesterday and he reckons all the teams are gone into financial defensive mode. The FIA money to teams is being HALVED next year and that's why Russell is out and Perez is in at Williams Perez and Latifi bring money, simple as that. Likewise the Haas boys are out because Schumacher brings money and the other new boy (Mazipane?) brings money too.

Russell to be reserve at Mercedes and he will hope to jump into Bottas' seat in 2021.

Russell has been confirmed for next year at williams.

El_Duderino 09

ELM327 wrote: »

Russell has been confirmed for next year at williams.

I just see that. Well, that's disproved that part

quokula

chicorytip wrote: »

The only elements of the cars that are tailored specifically for each individual driver are seat widths and pedal lengths. These can be changed quickly in the event of a last minute driver replacement such as Hulkenberg for Stroll recently.

This is mostly true, the idea of a car being designed to match a driver is overplayed. The car is simply designed to be as fast as it can, and it's only really tailored to the driver at the point where they do setup work each race weekend. Nothing that happens on the drawing board while the car is being designed could really possibly have enough perfect knowledge of what will happen once rubber hits tarmac to be able to take driving style into account.

To take Verstappen as an example. The Red Bull is unstable at the rear. This isn't because Max prefers it that way, it's just the nature of the car. Verstappen would much prefer a more stable car, but crucially he's capable of adapting to the skittish rear end better than other drivers. The more conservative Alpha Tauri design has allowed the other drivers to shine better.

This is again similar to what we saw in Schumacher's career. Throughout the mid 90s, he was regularly fighting for race wins in cars that his team-mates struggled to even get into the points. This isn't because the cars were designed around him, it's because they just weren't very good cars and he was head and shoulders above everyone else on the grid at dealing with that. His advantage was reduced when traction control was made legal in 2001. He was asked at the time if he'd prefer not to have it because it dulled his driving style, but he said traction control makes the car faster and anything that makes the car faster is better. I think the same could probably be said of Max. If Red Bull sorted out their rear end, Albon might be slightly closer to him, but he'd also be closer to the Mercedes so that would be worth it.

What's a much bigger factor in tailoring the car to the driver though, is the setup work that's done on each individual track in practice sessions and leading up to the race weekend.

It's here that we've seen Ferrari's mistreatment of Vettel really pay dividends. The relationship has soured horribly with all of the poor actions taken by Ferrari's management. This has led all of the team's resources flowing into maximising Leclerc's car at Vettel's expense. It's also led to terrible strategy calls, using Vettel as a guinea pig on suboptimal tyres, and generally sabotaging his race weekends. Vettel, on his part, has understandably lost motivation to put himself on the line for the team when they've done nothing but try to undermine him, so all of that compounds the situation. None of this is related to the car being designed to suit Leclerc specifically by its nature.

Frank Bullitt

Burkie1203

https://twitter.com/F1/status/1322268285019119616?s=19

Man with broke phone

Burkie1203 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/F1/status/1322268285019119616?s=19

Looks very like they have shown an interest but arnt fully sure. Maybe he is an option. Perez and Max or Perez and Luis in the same cars would be box office. Let them race.

GarIT

"The Race" who seem to be made up of Autosport's staff said yesterday that Hulk was the favourite rather than Perez.

It's fairly widely reported that Albon has to do well in this race or he is out. Anything less than 4th and he is probably gone. And a 4th might just barely buy him another race of consideration time.

mickdw

Man with broke phone wrote: »

Looks very like they have shown an interest but arnt fully sure. Maybe he is an option. Perez and Max or Perez and Luis in the same cars would be box office. Let them race.

Perez is good but i wouldnt be thinking he is a match for verstappen or even close to him.
He didnt shine against button. He generally got better of hulk ocon but not by any great margin.
He deserves a good seat but he is not in the top few drivers in f1.

Harika

Don't kid yourself, Albon is out. Red bull is only sorting out tsunoda, Albon and their driver for number 2 next to Max.
They have all time of the world as in their worst case they keep Albon. Else either hulkenberg or Perez will run away, both won't race for Haas next year so one of them will be available. Although I would think it's bad management to take the leftover driver.
Ferrari is likely waiting if illott or Schumacher wins F2 to get promoted to Haas.

Infoanon

Harika wrote: »

Ferrari is likely waiting if illott or Schumacher wins F2 to get promoted to Haas.

Schumacher is odds on,illot is wishful thinking by certain members of the media. Mazepin and his bucket loads of cash will get the second seat at Haas

Man with broke phone

mickdw wrote: »

Perez is good but i wouldnt be thinking he is a match for verstappen or even close to him.
He didnt shine against button. He generally got better of hulk ocon but not by any great margin.
He deserves a good seat but he is not in the top few drivers in f1.

I remember him getting better than Button for a time before they changed. Maybe overall button won but Perez had a good run at the end where he was better. Im open to correction.

vectra

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Right, but that's a pretty big assumption to make. So lets look at some wider evidence - Vettel vs Leclerc 2019. Do you think Ferrari designed and built the 2019 car around Leclerc before he even joined the team? Or do you think the much more likely scenario is that the 2019 car was developed and built around Vettel (insofar as Ferrari competently built the car they wanted to build) Leclerc was just better at driving the car than vettel was. And the same is happening this year.

But since you brought it up, how much of the gap between Vettal and Leclerd do you ascribe to the car not suiting Vettel?

The claim that Gio and Kimi are about equal only because both are getting all the speed out of the car, is beneath you. I pushed you on his the last time you made that claim and you went so far as to say even Hamilton or Max couldn't get any more speed out of that car. Don't demean yourself with tat kind of argument. But do answer the question above, if you can.

I didn't say design, I said Develop.
So that in itself is a pretty big assumption.

Of course a cars characteristics can completely throw a driver off. It would be like having Hamiltons car set up 100% to his liking during p1 p2 and p3.
Then go and adjust everything on the car so he finds it a pig to drive. Do you think he would win? (just a question. not a debate)

As for Demeaning myself?
I am still waiting for your evidence of Ferrari cheating last season.

Harika

Infoanon wrote: »

Schumacher is odds on,illot is wishful thinking by certain members of the media. Mazepin and his bucket loads of cash will get the second seat at Haas

If illott wins F2 then it would be odd to promote Schumacher

El_Duderino 09

vectra wrote: »

I didn't say design, I said Develop.
So that in itself is a pretty big assumption.

Of course a cars characteristics can completely throw a driver off. It would be like having Hamiltons car set up 100% to his liking during p1 p2 and p3.
Then go and adjust everything on the car so he finds it a pig to drive. Do you think he would win? (just a question. not a debate)

As for Demeaning myself?
I am still waiting for your evidence of Ferrari cheating last season.

Yeah I agree it’s a pretty big assumption that they developed the 2019 car to suit LeClerc. Having presumably designed the 2019 car to suit Vettel (because LeClerc wasn’t at ferrari yet, LeClerc still beat him. So what does that tell you?

It’s also a big assume that they are developing the car to suit LeClerc and that development is at vettel’s expense. I would ask you to form an argument or provide some evidence, but you get touchy when I ask you to do that.

But since you brought it up, how much of the gap between LeClerc back to Vettel do you ascribe to the car not suiting Vettel?

flazio

Mad theory here. I don't know what Gene Haas's political allegiance is, but under the current American administration I imagine it's not too good an image to hire a Mexican. Should a shift in power happen (and this really isn't the forum for discussing how likely is that) then it might become easier for Haas to welcome Perez and his Mexican sponsorship.

Infoanon

Harika wrote: »

If illott wins F2 then it would be odd to promote Schumacher

The F2 champion does not have a right to a F1 seat - if illott was to be champion he might get a test role but Schumacher is the driver that Ferrari want in F1.

Man with broke phone

Infoanon wrote: »

The F2 champion does not have a right to a F1 seat - if illott was to be champion he might get a test role but Schumacher is the driver that Ferrari want in F1.

Yep all young schumacher has to do is prove he is reliable and smart enough to know when and when not to talk and he will get a good drive sooner or later.

Harika

Infoanon wrote: »

The F2 champion does not have a right to a F1 seat - if illott was to be champion he might get a test role but Schumacher is the driver that Ferrari want in F1.

Both are part of the academy, if illott would win the championship, (don't worry too much doesn't look like it) there will be questions why the worse placed driver does get promoted over the winning driver. Congratulations you just made Mick a pay driver.

AMKC

flazio wrote: »

Mad theory here. I don't know what Gene Haas's political allegiance is, but under the current American administration I imagine it's not too good an image to hire a Mexican. Should a shift in power happen (and this really isn't the forum for discussing how likely is that) then it might become easier for Haas to welcome Perez and his Mexican sponsorship.

Maybe but I doubt Trump or his current administration care or even notice F1 or who is driving in it. In fact I would go as far as to say he is even to stupid to know anything about F1 or where its drivers are from.
Maybe Gene Haas worries about it do but I guess we will know in two to three weeks time.

Man with broke phone

AMKC wrote: »

Maybe but I doubt Trump or his current administration care or even notice F1 or who is driving in it. In fact I would go as far as to say he is even to stupid to know anything about F1 or where its drivers are from.
Maybe Gene Haas worries about it do but I guess we will know in two to three weeks time.

I dont know anything about NASCAR, does that make me stupid?

flazio

flazio wrote: »

Mad theory here. I don't know what Gene Haas's political allegiance is, but under the current American administration I imagine it's not too good an image to hire a Mexican. Should a shift in power happen (and this really isn't the forum for discussing how likely is that) then it might become easier for Haas to welcome Perez and his Mexican sponsorship.

Nonsense tbh.