Formula 1 2020 - General Discussion Thread (See MOD warning on first post)

pjohnson

Gintonious wrote: »

https://twitter.com/_markgallagher/status/1321727604307709955

Another one to leave?

Alfa leaving wouldnt make much difference. They are literally only a name on the car akin to Aston Martin Red Bull Racing.

Frank Bullitt

pjohnson wrote: »

Alfa leaving wouldnt make much difference. They are literally only a name on the car akin to Aston Martin Red Bull Racing.

From what I have read, there was a technical partnership along with the commercial aspects too. Might be a bit more than a name on the car.

El_Duderino 09

PukkaStukka wrote: »

I ...
But...There is another article I read which theorised the whole enginegate thing is behind the aero problem as well. It explained that Ferrari may have been using fuel to cool the engine in a way that gave them more power but was a grey area in the rules and obviously they can no longer do that since the settlement. However it also meant that they needed to make additional provision for cooling which mean bigger radiators, more open bodywork, and aero disturbed massively as a consequence, but with no real opportunity to rework things with Covid and a compressed season. Could this also be behind Haas’ issue?

That would make sense.

Joe Saward was saying the same about using fuel as a coolant. The theory being they could cool the engine by warming the fuel and bringing it closer to combustion temperature. The closer it is to combustion temp the less work needed to ignite it and more likely to get a fuller burn and more power.

GarIT

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

That would make sense.

Joe Saward was saying the same about using fuel as a coolant. The theory being they could cool the engine by warming the fuel and bringing it closer to combustion temperature. The closer it is to combustion temp the less work needed to ignite it and more likely to get a fuller burn and more power.

I can't imagine that unless they had fuel running through the radiators, the engine would heat the fuel in minutes if not seconds. I can believe that they are heating the fuel but can't see it being useful for cooling.

Top Dog

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

That’s an interesting point. Mercedes could win the championship with Bottas and Russell as a no.2 so why pay Hamilton $50m when you could get the same result for about 15-20% of the cost.

You could be right about Mercedes, but I'd be putting my money on Russell winning with Bottas remaining a number 2 driver.

https://www.reddit.com/r/formuladank/comments/jh4hv8/emma_watson_test_positive_for_covid19_hulkenberg/

antodeco

Giovinazzi and Raikonen confirmed for Alfa Romeo for next year

https://www.sauber-group.com/motorsport/f1-news/kimi-raikkonen-and-antonio-giovinazzi-to-race-on-with-alfa-romeo-racing-orlen-in-2021/

El_Duderino 09

antodeco wrote: »

Giovinazzi and Raikonen confirmed for Alfa Romeo for next year

https://www.sauber-group.com/motorsport/f1-news/kimi-raikkonen-and-antonio-giovinazzi-to-race-on-with-alfa-romeo-racing-orlen-in-2021/

One of my teachers announced his retirement before he was 65 and she asked about it he said “go when people are asking you ‘why’ not ‘when’. I think Kimi could benefit from taking that advice.

ELM327

If I were Kimi I wouldnt retire.
He's clearly still enjoying himself and clearly still has pace in a crap car.

Harika

ELM327 wrote: »

If I were Kimi I wouldnt retire.
He's clearly still enjoying himself and clearly still has pace in a crap car.

And gets paid well for that privilege, no need to worry what some chaps on social media say.
Both get one year contract in line with the Alfa extension

El_Duderino 09

ELM327 wrote: »

If I were Kimi I wouldnt retire.
He's clearly still enjoying himself and clearly still has pace in a crap car.

Clearly still has pace? That’s a bold claim. He’s about as fast as Gio who I’ve not recently heard anyone say they rate highly as a prospect let alone having pace already.

PukkaStukka

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Clearly still has pace? That’s a bold claim. He’s about as fast as Gio who I’ve not recently heard anyone say they rate highly as a prospect let alone having pace already.

He's also ends up fighting Vettel in a supposedly superior car in most races

El_Duderino 09

PukkaStukka wrote: »

He's also ends up fighting Vettel in a supposedly superior car in most races

What does that tell you about Vettel’s form? Vettel’s miles off the pace, we know that by comparing him to his teammate.

I know lots of people get cross about it, but neither of them are good anymore.

ELM327

Did they wake up and forget how to drive?

El_Duderino 09

ELM327 wrote: »

Did they wake up and forget how to drive?

Not sure why you’d ask that. That’s not the most likely way to go from being good to not being good anymore.

GarIT

I love Kimi, I was about to say the last link to my childhood F1 viewing will be gone with Kimi but I realised we have Alonso back again.

As much as I love Kimi I can't think Alfa Romeo could have gone with a worse pair of drivers. Maybe Kimi does a lot of work in the background but Perez is equal or better now and was going to pay to drive. And for the second seat any of Hulk, Russel, Albon, Kivyat, Magnusson, Grosjean, or even Kimi. Or if they need moeny Mazepin.

aidyhawse

Harika wrote: »

And gets paid well for that privilege, no need to worry what some chaps on social media say.
Both get one year contract in line with the Alfa extension

2021 will probably be the final year for Kimi, can't see him staying around for the new regulations.
Surprised though about Gio - I would've thought that Alfa/Sauber would have wanted to take advantage of Kimi staying on and putting a rookie (Ilott/Schumacher/Shwartzman) beside him, to learn from Kimi.

GarIT

aidyhawse wrote: »

2021 will probably be the final year for Kimi, can't see him staying around for the new regulations.
Surprised though about Gio - I would've thought that Alfa/Sauber would have wanted to take advantage of Kimi staying on and putting a rookie (Ilott/Schumacher/Shwartzman) beside him, to learn from Kimi.

Apparently the reason is Alfa will get **** in Italy if they drop the only Italian driver.

This is it

ELM327 wrote: »

Did they wake up and forget how to drive?

Can't understand this line of reasoning. I've no opinion on Kimi getting another year so I've no skin in the game but it's natural, and irrefutable, that drivers do get slower. They don't "forget" how to drive overnight but things change, reactions slightly slower, losing 1/100th here or 1/10th there. Because the margins are so fine in F1 the change, or decline, has a huge impact.

If this wasn't true we'd have far more drivers continuing into their late 30s and 40s but we don't because as with most sports there is a natural decline.

antodeco

So looks like it'll be Schumacher/Illot to Haas and Mazepin as the second driver.

vectra

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

What does that tell you about Vettel’s form? Vettel’s miles off the pace, we know that by comparing him to his teammate.

I know lots of people get cross about it, but neither of them are good anymore.

I seriously would have thought you would have clicked with Vettel's problem by now.

Did you ever hear of a team developing a car around one driver which ends up not suiting the other driver at all?
Why would Ferrari develop the car around Vettel when he is leaving at the end of this season?

I think Vettel haters will get a surprise next season when he is in the Aston.
If not, I will be very surprised.

As for Kimi with your constant "what about Gio"
They both a getting the maximum out of that car, quite plain to see, Kimi still has the speed and quick reactions even at 41.
Look at his opening lap last Sunday, then what happens? He is a sitting duck as the car simply won't go any faster.

pjohnson

Truly awful driver is Kimi

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ChdaNDFI30

flazio

That was just 1 race. Had somebody like Albon produced a race like that this year we'd still be looking to shove him out of the Red Bull seat.

Charlie-Bravo

Whoever wins the F2 championship will be in that Haas seat as they can't re-enter F2 after winning it!

And I feel sorry that Nick DeVries had nowhere to go as all the Merc-engine seats were busy/filled last year.

artanevilla

I can only dream but hopefully it just means Alfa are dropping Sauber and making a proper works team.

vectra

flazio wrote: »

That was just 1 race. Had somebody like Albon produced a race like that this year we'd still be looking to shove him out of the Red Bull seat.

Huhh?

Man with broke phone

Im starting to think Perez will get a really good seat, Red Bull or Merc, or get no seat at all, Im guessing no seat at all.

vectra

Man with broke phone wrote: »

Im starting to think Perez will get a really good seat, Red Bull or Merc, or get no seat at all, Im guessing no seat at all.

Perez and mick schu to Haas?

H3llR4iser

vectra wrote: »

I seriously would have thought you would have clicked with Vettel's problem by now.

Did you ever hear of a team developing a car around one driver which ends up not suiting the other driver at all?
Why would Ferrari develop the car around Vettel when he is leaving at the end of this season?

Most people can't wrap their head around the concept - they couldn't in the Schumacher era, they can't now with Ferrari/Leclerc and Red Bull/Verstappen.

What I find funny, however, is that while in the case of RB it's usually said "well it's just Verstappen driving faster!", nobody says the same about Leclerc. Maybe not surprising considering the numbers of straight out haters Vettel seems to have in the English speaking sphere.

vectra wrote: »

As for Kimi with your constant "what about Gio"
They both a getting the maximum out of that car, quite plain to see, Kimi still has the speed and quick reactions even at 41.
Look at his opening lap last Sunday, then what happens? He is a sitting duck as the car simply won't go any faster.

The Sauber/Alfa is right at the bottom of the field in terms of performance - it's a toss up between them, Williams and Haas as to who is the absolute worst depending on track (Haas and Alfa have a little better chassis, while Williams has a better PU). The simple fact that both Kimi and Antonio are usually not far from the points is a testament to the fact they're doing a good job indeed.

If the team thought the drivers were the issue, they wouldn't have been retained, straight and simple. Schumacher, Ilot or Shwartzman would cost them less than Raikkonen in terms of salary. Probably 0 as likely Ferrari would pay. Also, surely Ferrari tried to place Schumacher, Shwartzmann or Ilott in the second seat - the fact they kept Giovinazzi means they can't really see any of them doing better.

El_Duderino 09

vectra wrote: »

I seriously would have thought you would have clicked with Vettel's problem by now.

Did you ever hear of a team developing a car around one driver which ends up not suiting the other driver at all?
Why would Ferrari develop the car around Vettel when he is leaving at the end of this season?

I think Vettel haters will get a surprise next season when he is in the Aston.
If not, I will be very surprised.

As for Kimi with your constant "what about Gio"
They both a getting the maximum out of that car, quite plain to see, Kimi still has the speed and quick reactions even at 41.
Look at his opening lap last Sunday, then what happens? He is a sitting duck as the car simply won't go any faster.

Right, but that's a pretty big assumption to make. So lets look at some wider evidence - Vettel vs Leclerc 2019. Do you think Ferrari designed and built the 2019 car around Leclerc before he even joined the team? Or do you think the much more likely scenario is that the 2019 car was developed and built around Vettel (insofar as Ferrari competently built the car they wanted to build) Leclerc was just better at driving the car than vettel was. And the same is happening this year.

But since you brought it up, how much of the gap between Vettal and Leclerd do you ascribe to the car not suiting Vettel?

The claim that Gio and Kimi are about equal only because both are getting all the speed out of the car, is beneath you. I pushed you on his the last time you made that claim and you went so far as to say even Hamilton or Max couldn't get any more speed out of that car. Don't demean yourself with tat kind of argument. But do answer the question above, if you can.