Formula 1 2020 - General Discussion Thread (See MOD warning on first post)

El_Duderino 09

skipper_G wrote: »

You could have fooled me

No, it makes sense. Their loyalty is to Vettel and denying he’s not a good driver anymore, not to ferrari. They only chose this silly argument about Ferrari not cheating because I said ferrari cheated and they took exception to that for some reason. They’re like a dog with a broken record, to mix metaphors.

the_pen_turner

i cannot understand this issue.
its clear as day that ferrari were not cheating. if they were then it would be easily found . they have found all kinds of hidden code in other cars, something mechanical should be very easy to prove

there are only 3 options.
they were inside the rules. it seams they were inside them but outside the intent of them

outside them. no evidence of this

grey area. definetly . they found a loophole that allowed them an advantage but still be inside the rule book. fair play to them.

pjohnson

the_pen_turner wrote: »

i cannot understand this issue.
its clear as day that ferrari were not cheating. if they were then it would be easily found . they have found all kinds of hidden code in other cars, something mechanical should be very easy to prove

there are only 3 options.
they were inside the rules. it seams they were inside them but outside the intent of them

outside them. no evidence of this

grey area. definetly . they found a loophole that allowed them an advantage but still be inside the rule book. fair play to them.

Theres no place for that kind of nuance here.

GarIT

And with that spin and finishing last, Albon's career in F1 has come to a close. He will not be renewed with Red Bull for next season.

weisses

vectra wrote: »

Cheating was done by Mclaren. That was blatant cheating and when they got caught they paid dearly for it.
If Ferrari were Cheating as blatant as you say. Why did they not get a hefty punishment?

No punishment ?? They are forced to use an engine that isnt performing plus the chassis isnt performing because of this ... Ferrari were basically forced to throw away 2 formula 1 seasons because of it.

And ferrari is accepting all of this because it was just a loophole they were using ? ... Dont think so

weisses

the_pen_turner wrote: »

i cannot understand this issue.
its clear as day that ferrari were not cheating. if they were then it would be easily found .

What kind of ridiculous statement is this ? Teams have the best engineers on the payroll they have resources the FIA doesn't have they are vastly more knowledgeable then the governing body.

naughto

GarIT wrote: »

And with that spin and finishing last, Albon's career in F1 has come to a close. He will not be renewed with Red Bull for next season.

Ya most definitely hes done with red bull.id say some other team could pick him up

GarIT

naughto wrote: »

Ya most definitely hes done with red bull.id say some other team could pick him up

I doubt there's any chance of that. Perez is finding it difficult to find a seat when he is bringing 20 million, Albon with no sponsorship isn't a better prospect than Hulk, Magnusson or Kivyat.

This is it

naughto wrote: »

Ya most definitely hes done with red bull.id say some other team could pick him up

There are no seats other than Haas I think

GarIT

This is it wrote: »

There are no seats other than Haas I think

I was thinking there had to be one other, the one that Perez and Hulk were going for. And then I remembered that's Albon's old seat.

Sky Italia reported that Schumacher and Schwartzman have already signed at Haas. Crofty says the rumours around the paddock is that Schumacher and Mazepin are already signed.

the_pen_turner

weisses wrote: »

What kind of ridiculous statement is this ? Teams have the best engineers on the payroll they have resources the FIA doesn't have they are vastly more knowledgeable then the governing body.

whats redicules about it.

yes the teams have more rescources but they are being used to design , test and build stuff. a lot of that is wasted in failures and all the effert required.
the teams have to put thousands of hours into making the parts but the fia only have to put in effert to see if it complies.

vectra

skipper_G wrote: »

You could have fooled me

Must be easy :pac:

El_Duderino 09

GarIT wrote: »

And with that spin and finishing last, Albon's career in F1 has come to a close. He will not be renewed with Red Bull for next season.

Yeah, has to be. I think it' harsh that he's out on his arze when he's probably worth a decent run to find out how good h is elsewhere on the grid. I think if Gasley and he had swapped timeline, there's a great chance Gasley would be out on his arze and we'd be talking about Albon as driver of the season for his great comeback.

vectra

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Its common knowledge to people who follow f1. The Ferrari engine of last year being the best on the grid, the investigation and secret FIA deal, the Ferrari engine of this year being much slower to comply with the rules. This is such a strange hill for to those to die on. And it’s funny to me because as far as I can see you only chose this ridiculous argument because I argued Ferrari cheated last year.

I’ll answer the Seb Vs LeClerc question but I’ll note that I’ve asked you the same question 3 or 4 times so it would be great if you’d answer the question I asked you which was: since you brought up the development to excuse Vettel’s performance, how much of the gap from LeClerc back to Seb to do ascribe to the car not suiting Seb?

I just go with the evidence we have available so put it down to Seb failing to be as fast as LeClerc. I think LeClerc might be doing something special in the car and that will only become clear when we see LeClerc up against a good driver so we’ll know more when Sainz moves there next year. At the moment Seb isn’t even good let alone very good or a top driver so I think that explains the gap.

Now, your turn.

1)
"Knowledge to people" like you outside the F1 group that have this "Knowledge" with no evidence.

2)
I correct you there that you "argued"
You blatantly accused them of cheating.

3)
The Gap from Charles to Seb?
I have no answer for that as I am sure you haven't a clue either.
If you do "know" please tell.

4)
What evidence do you have?

weisses

vectra wrote: »

Cheating is a very strong word with no hard evidence of what they were doing.

Let me ask you this ... If Ferraris engine was legal why aren't they using it now ?

El_Duderino 09

vectra wrote: »

...

3)
The Gap from Charles to Seb?
I have no answer for that as I am sure you haven't a clue either.
If you do "know" please tell.

4)
What evidence do you have?

3) You have no answer for that? But you asserted they are developing the car around Leclerc and it's hurting Vettel. (I've been asking you the same question since your baseless assertion and it's taken you until now to admit you haven't a clue. Do you even remember saying it?

Here's what you said.

I seriously would have thought you would have clicked with Vettel's problem by now.

Did you ever hear of a team developing a car around one driver which ends up not suiting the other driver at all?
Why would Ferrari develop the car around Vettel when he is leaving at the end of this season?

So the next question is: To what do you attribute the performance gap from Leclerc back to Vettel?

4) the evidence we see on track - the evidence we all have in terms of measured time to do a lap of the circuit (a very common way to measure teammates relative performances), the position in which drivers qualify for each race, the position in which the drivers finish and a total of the points the score as the season progresses. Leclerc is winning on all those metrics.

Can you think of any ways to measure their relative performances which would paint Vettel in a positive light compared to his young teammate?

Let's hope it doesn't take you 2 days to answer these questions. I've bolded them for you to help you remember lol

the_pen_turner

weisses wrote: »

Let me ask you this ... If Ferraris engine was legal why aren't they using it now ?

because they changed the rules to stop them . doing it now would not be legal

recyclebin

Deja vu in this thread here over the Ferrari engine, with everyone bar one thinking the the same thing about the secret deal between Ferrari and the FIA!

Anyway, back to more recent events.

Hulkenberg is to podiums as Russell is to points.

Harika

https://www.thepitcrewonline.net/2020/11/01/why-hulkenberg-would-and-wouldnt-be-the-right-choice-for-red-bull/

Adds some aspects to the decision

Jordan 199

More reliability issues for the Renault team again today. If they want any chance of finishing third in the constructors championship, they need to have both cars in the points.

mickdw

Harika wrote: »

https://www.thepitcrewonline.net/2020/11/01/why-hulkenberg-would-and-wouldnt-be-the-right-choice-for-red-bull/

Adds some aspects to the decision

Its a very important point being made there re Perez being eager to assert himself in a team.
If 2 redbulls were sharing the same bit of track at the first corner, who would be more likely to take out team mate? My money says perez.

Charlie-Bravo

We all remember how Perez put manners on Ocon in Baku! :pac:

recyclebin

Perez and Ocon had many battles as team mates in 2017. Ocon has gone backwards since 2017 which is a shame.

I don't think Red Bull would have to worry about it though as I think Verstappen will be faster most of the time and Perez will be there to take podiums and 4th places depending on whether both Mercedes finish the race.

Man with broke phone

astrofluff wrote: »

We all remember how Perez put manners on Ocon in Baku! :pac:

He could just as easily torpedo Lewis at the start of each race leaving a Max, Bottas shoot out for the championship. Id say Bottas would fold.

(Joking of course) (kind of)

tipp_tipp_tipp

What's the story with Hamilton and next year lads? Is he dragging contract talks out to try and get a few extra quid, or could he genuinely walk away at the end of the year?

recyclebin

tipp_tipp_tipp wrote: »

What's the story with Hamilton and next year lads? Is he dragging contract talks out to try and get a few extra quid, or could he genuinely walk away at the end of the year?

Don't think it's money. Toto hasn't signed up yet either as far as I can see. Looks like Mercedes may be selling a major stake in the F1 team so things are up in the air. There is definitely something going on in the background anyway but it doesn't seem to be effecting on track performance. I think Lewis will definitely do at least one more year to try win 8th title but after that he may walk away.

El_Duderino 09

tipp_tipp_tipp wrote: »

What's the story with Hamilton and next year lads? Is he dragging contract talks out to try and get a few extra quid, or could he genuinely walk away at the end of the year?

Well, he could walk away in the sense that anything’s possible. He also has other interests* outside f1 and most of them aren’t things that would interest me, but if he wants to do those things while he’s still young, then it increases the chances of him leaving.

He is also not going to get the same money this year or ever again in his career (FIA payment to teams are halving next year and I’m sure lots of other revenue streams are way down). It might be very demotivating to do the same work for less money.

So those things will encourage him to go do other things, but it’s still overwhelmingly likely he’ll stay on next year. I wonder if they could pay him in equity rather than cash?

There haven’t even been rumours of him retiring - but there weren’t rumours of Rosberg retiring either.

*his interests are as varied as fashion, singing, electric racing team ownership and civil rights activism. Plenty to be getting on with if he wanted a change of scenery

GarIT

tipp_tipp_tipp wrote: »

What's the story with Hamilton and next year lads? Is he dragging contract talks out to try and get a few extra quid, or could he genuinely walk away at the end of the year?

There were rumours of Ineos (who are apparently their main sponsor, I thought petronas was) buying out Mercedes, Mercedes only own 70% of the team.


Hamilton said in the past that he would leave if Toto left, and follow Toto to Ferrari if that's where he went. Even if Toto does leave I think he will stay but as the El_D said something is up.

the_pen_turner

i cant see him giving up the high chance of an 8th championship