Formula 1 2020 - General Discussion Thread (See MOD warning on first post)

AMKC

Anyone know where Eddie Jordan is hiding out these days. Have not seen him in a while. It would be interesting to hear what he thinks of all the latest goings on in F1.

weisses

vectra wrote: »

But wasn't whatever they were running was only after the summer break?
So it is hard to say it is Less good engine.

Also
Ferrari are running a lot more downforce on this years chassis which in turn would make it slower due to the less power they now have, After all, this car was designed around what they thought they would have.

any source for this ?

PukkaStukka

Here's my take on "enginegate" and this tallies with informed commentary by people close to the FIA. This information is in the public domain.

A number of teams query Ferraris engine performance last year.

The FIA investigated

The FIA then had concerns over what was found and the team defended themselves arguing what they were doing was exploiting a loophole and was therefore within the rules.

The FIA was duty bound to l close the loophole but disclosure of the findings and the specifics thereof would compromise the teams designs and IPR. Therefore the outcome of the process was subject to a non disclosure agreement on both the FIA and the team. The team withdrew the technology / practice concerned and agreed not to use it again.

Then there is further conjecture about what the alleged practice was, none of which is substantiated, corroborated or grounded in fact, like claims the team was actually cheating:

There is all sorts of dark talk of a disgruntled team insider spilling the beans to the FIA about all sorts of engine practices the team were allegedly using, but this person had illegally accessed the information and therefore same couldn't be used to prop up a complaint.

There was talk of a means of electronically manipulating the fuel flow sensor to record a flow rate lower than true thereby providing an increase in power.

There is talk of a second fuel tank with a different fuel to the first with both fuels being perfectly legal. However when both fuels were combined, they formed a more potent cocktail that would've been illegal in itself. Again rumour, speculation, conjecture or who knows. There is no official confirmation of this being true or even been looked at. It could well be no more than the byproduct of fertile imagination.

There is talk that the teams twin battery setup was being used to power the ERS beyond the permitted maximum.

There is talk the team had a magic intercooler full of oil laden with aromatics that increased engine power astronomically. Again talk but nothing found.

Summary

Ferrari has a confidential settlement with the FIA and are slower since. There was no admission or finding of wrongdoing on anyone's part. These are in essence the limit of known facts. Anything beyond this at present is speculation and conjecture and will remain so unless or until someone involved in this discloses the unknown bits.

And finally...

I will make no further comment on this as I don't want to contribute to or seeing this good thread being wrecked. And I would encorage all to do likewise and move on, and leave enginegate and trolling in the past. There are so many unknowns in this that the only things that are known is the the team were not found to be cheating and they are slower this year.

elperello

AMKC wrote: »

Anyone know where Eddie Jordan is hiding out these days. Have not seen him in a while. It would be interesting to hear what he thinks of all the latest goings on in F1.

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.would-i-employ-him-probably-not-eddie-jordan-on-the-prospect-of-vettel.H3wtE4J6vqmMZ8bz55jIb.html

Here he is on RP and Vettel.

I wish he was back on C4 at least occasionally.

g1983d

AMKC wrote: »

Anyone know where Eddie Jordan is hiding out these days. Have not seen him in a while. It would be interesting to hear what he thinks of all the latest goings on in F1.

He was in South Africa for the start of Covid.
Stayed there for a while any way

flazio

I think that f1.com article is an extract from an interview he did with f1 nation podcast a few weeks back.
Here's a Spotify link to the whole thing.

https://open.spotify.com/episode/6aRunxFGNGt4E6KEpbjydE?si=gV2PIK4XSkOnjM4tOdoCRA

El_Duderino 09

vectra wrote: »

Define less good engine?

LOL. I'd define it in the normal way in terms of speed.

Do you think the current ferrari engine is as good as last year's engine?

I think it's pretty clear you're dancing around answering why you think they've decided to use a less good engine this year than last year.

El_Duderino 09

vectra wrote: »

But wasn't whatever they were running was only after the summer break?
So it is hard to say it is Less good engine.

Also
Ferrari are running a lot more downforce on this years chassis which in turn would make it slower due to the less power they now have, After all, this car was designed around what they thought they would have.

Yes it's easy to say it's less good. It's also easy to say the engine they ran after the sure break was vetter then the one from before the summer break (or whenever the chance was actually made). Their improvement in straight line speed was marked and acknowledged by everyone and you'd acknowledge that if you weren't pretending you don't know last year's engine was better than this year's engine.

Ferrari are running more downforce than last year. Do.its great that we gave two other teams running the ferrari engine and we can also see his alfa abd Haas are doing.... This year's ferrari engine is less good than last year's.

I get they you're just arguing for the sake of arguing. I give you credit for knowing that what you're saying is pure guff.

Harika

Rumours sparking this will be Sebastian last race with Ferrari. https://www.racefans.net/2020/08/15/vettel-didnt-say-a-word-to-ferrari-on-his-radio-throughout-qualifying/ not even the Alonso divorce was that bad. Prost was at least outright fired.

Also Turkey to make comeback in November.

Jordan 199

Would be nice to see the Turkish GP back. Turkish Delight.

El_Duderino 09

Harika wrote: »

Rumours sparking this will be Sebastian last race with Ferrari. https://www.racefans.net/2020/08/15/vettel-didnt-say-a-word-to-ferrari-on-his-radio-throughout-qualifying/ not even the Alonso divorce was that bad. Prost was at least outright fired.

Also Turkey to make comeback in November.

That's a bit tenuous. The last line of the article is where the idea of Seb leaving after this race comes in.

"That is due to become a split at the end of the year, and under the circumstances it’s small wonder some are asking whether it will happen sooner than that"

Seb didn't ask for set-up tweaks, didn't ask for and guidance or feedback on where he's losing time or how to do things differently. That's shamefully unprofessional. When you consider he's the second highest paid driver and he's not even trying. Losing respect for him this year. It's one thing to be slower than he previously was, it's another thing to be beaten by his teammate but it's an entirely different thing to throw his yous out of the pram and not even try his hardest.

Ferrai didnt offer him a new contract and that's their right. Ferrari doesn't owe Seb a living and considering they found a young, enthusiastic, faster driver for a fraction of the cost of Vettel, they had very good reason to let Seb go. He's proving Ferrai were correct to dump him.

El_Duderino 09

Jordan 199 wrote: »

Would be nice to see the Turkish GP back. Turkish Delight.

Was it actually a good track? I know they couldn't get Turkish people to go to the race - same with India. But I can't remember if the track was good.

Charlie-Bravo

Yes, decent track. Turn 8 is special and then turn 12 after the long straight.

You'll remember the race in 2010 when Vettel and Webber collided coming up to turn 12.

And Lewis in GP2 overtaking most cars in the race in 2006...I was there watching that one!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UlgipON2Pow

Harika

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

That's a bit tenuous. The last line of the article is where the idea of Seb leaving after this race comes in.
..


Ferrai didnt offer him a new contract and that's their right. Ferrari doesn't owe Seb a living and considering they found a young, enthusiastic, faster driver for a fraction of the cost of Vettel, they had very good reason to let Seb go. He's proving Ferrai were correct to dump him.

I read the rumours and then linked the article I read yesterday together. Anyways the situation atm is bad for Vettel as he clearly doesn't feel well, and Ferrari that is now a one driver team effectively. Vettel outsitting the final races makes less and less sense. Everyone loses at the moment.
He earned 40 million a year the last years, he is not gonna starve anytime soon. Ferrari can pay him out and pay for eg. Kimi whom they already have on payroll

pjohnson

90% sure Kimi isn't in any way employed by Ferrari now. Giovinazzi is the registered reserve with Wehrlein the standby reserve/simulator driver. Fuoco just a simulator driver then its the academy boys (Schumacher and Ilott ready to go but Shwartzman needs to test an F1 car.)

Kimi could obviously be drafted back a la Hulk to Racing Point but theres no actual tie right now.

AMKC

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Was it actually a good track? I know they couldn't get Turkish people to go to the race - same with India. But I can't remember if the track was good.

Yes I always thought it was a very good track with lots of very good exciting races there. It was a big disappointment when it was dropped. Delighted to see it back on the calendar. Hoy about the Malaysia, India and Korea tracks next?

GarIT

pjohnson wrote: »

90% sure Kimi isn't in any way employed by Ferrari now. Giovinazzi is the registered reserve with Wehrlein the standby reserve/simulator driver. Fuoco just a simulator driver then its the academy boys (Schumacher and Ilott ready to go but Shwartzman needs to test an F1 car.)

Kimi could obviously be drafted back a la Hulk to Racing Point but theres no actual tie right now.

Kimi is completely independent. Ferrari were surprised he was going to Sauber and not retiring, they didn't know anything about it until it was publicly announced. When he signed the rumour was he was being paid in shares rather than cash. 2% of Sauber per year.

Marchionne had agreed a deal for Ferrari to buy Sauber but that fell through when he died, they settled for advertising (rumoured to be £30m) in return for owning one of the seats, Giovinazzi's

Man with broke phone

Kimi and Vettel should just move on to other stuff, there is a generation of race fans coming through now that remember Kimi as a second driver and Q1 entrant and its a longtime since Vettel made it look like he was the only driver who will ever win a race again.

There is plenty of younger people to come through.

johnnysmack

So refreshing having rosberg and Rachel Brooks in such prominent positions presenting the show. There's half a dozen of the usual sky voices missing and I haven't missed them one bit.

vectra

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I get they you're just arguing for the sake of arguing. I give you credit for knowing that what you're saying is pure guff.

I get you are being a know all for the sake of it.
Evidence of cheating please.

g1983d

vectra wrote: »

I get you are being a know all for the sake of it.
Evidence of cheating please.

There's obviously no evidence of cheating available to randomers on boards the same as theres no evidence there was no cheating.

Whats known is this years ferrari is a heap of sh1t in comparison to last years and the team are all over the place.

Now agree to disagree and move on so the rest of us can actually chat about F1 with our knowledge that we've gleaned from whats out in the public domain (don't think there's any f1 team staff here) or else just move on in general so everyone can get on with their lives.

Above aimed at all involved in this boring argument

vectra

g1983d wrote: »

There's obviously no evidence of cheating available to randomers on boards the same as theres no evidence there was no cheating.

Whats known is this years ferrari is a heap of sh1t in comparison to last years and the team are all over the place.

Now agree to disagree and move on so the rest of us can actually chat about F1 with our knowledge that we've gleaned from whats out in the public domain (don't think there's any f1 team staff here) or else just move on in general so everyone can get on with their lives.

Above aimed at all involved in this boring argument

Who promoted you to moderator status?
Don't be coming along telling me what I can and can not post on any forum, :mad:

And as you said, There is no evidence of any cheating or no cheating happened.
So I still await the answer to my question, which cannot be shown.

If it is any information to you, this is not the first time Ferrari have been in the dumps.
You only need to look back to the F60 to see what a wheelbarrow that was, one win that year thanks to Kimi and his Spa skills.
Look back to be fore Schumacher started winning titles for them.

g1983d

vectra wrote: »

Who promoted you to moderator status?
Don't be coming along telling me what I can and can not post on any forum, :mad:

And as you said, There is no evidence of any cheating or no cheating happened.
So I still await the answer to my question, which cannot be shown.

If it is any information to you, this is not the first time Ferrari have been in the dumps.
You only need to look back to the F60 to see what a wheelbarrow that was, one win that year thanks to Kimi and his Spa skills.
Look back to be fore Schumacher started winning titles for them.

Yawn

vectra

g1983d wrote: »

Yawn

Past your bed time or just trolling?

Inquitus

g1983d wrote: »

There's obviously no evidence of cheating available to randomers on boards the same as theres no evidence there was no cheating.

Whats known is this years ferrari is a heap of sh1t in comparison to last years and the team are all over the place.

Now agree to disagree and move on so the rest of us can actually chat about F1 with our knowledge that we've gleaned from whats out in the public domain (don't think there's any f1 team staff here) or else just move on in general so everyone can get on with their lives.

Above aimed at all involved in this boring argument

It's not BS, just google why has the Ferrari PU lost so much Pace / Horsepower. All the reporters who are in the know, far more than we, are point to the classified FIA investigation as the root cause.

Sky Sports F1 pundit Martin Brundle says it is clear that Ferrari has “lost a significant amount of power” since their 2019 power unit was investigated.

While the findings of the FIA’s investigation into Ferrari’s 2019 engine has remained private, much to the annoyance of the rest of the Formula 1 paddock, the introduction of new Technical Directives towards the end of last season did at least suggest Ferrari had to make some compromises with their power unit.

And the Scuderia appear to be suffering from 2019’s hangover as the first two races of the 2020 campaign have showed they are clearly behind Mercedes and Red Bull in the pecking order and even appear vulnerable to the likes of Racing Point and McLaren in the midfield.

Ferrari were unable to get a true read on their fast-tracked upgrades at the Styrian Grand Prix as Charles Leclerc ended both his and Sebastian Vettel’s race early on with a very unnecessary collision.

https://www.planetf1.com/news/ferrari-2020-power-unit/

g1983d

Inquitus wrote: »

It's not BS, just google why has the Ferrari PU lost so much Pace / Horsepower. All the reporters who are in the know, far more than we, are point to the classified FIA investigation as the root cause.



https://www.planetf1.com/news/ferrari-2020-power-unit/

I get all that and have a similar opinion or my own.
My point is no one in boards will have evidence to show one way or the other, all we have is what we see reported or released by fia and teams.

The "discussion" for the the last few pages has been show me yours and ill show you mine.

Just round and round in circles

Inquitus

g1983d wrote: »

I get all that and have a similar opinion or my own.
My point is no one in boards will have evidence to show one way or the other, all we have is what we see reported or released by fia and teams.

The "discussion" for the the last few pages has been show me yours and ill show you mine.

Just round and round in circles

Except you have shown nothing that demonstrates that the FIA settlement is not the cause of their 50HP loss in the engine department.

g1983d

Inquitus wrote: »

Except you have shown nothing that demonstrates that the FIA settlement is not the cause of their 50HP loss in the engine department.

I stated that I have a similar opinon to you, but that's all it is, an opinion, completely worthless.
I can't be ar$ed being dragged into this boring merry go round.

I'll leave ye at it as the thread is pointless now

g1983d

Inquitus wrote: »

Except you have shown nothing that demonstrates that the FIA settlement is not the cause of their 50HP loss in the engine department.

I stated that I have a similar opinon to you, but that's all it is, an opinion, completely worthless.
I can't be ar$ed being dragged into this boring merry go round.

I'll leave ye at it as the thread is pointless now

El_Duderino 09

vectra wrote: »

I get you are being a know all for the sake of it.
Evidence of cheating please.

Have you come up with a reason why Ferrai has decided to run a less good engine than last year? Or are you still pretending you're the only person in Ireland who doesn't know this year's engine is less good than last year's?