Organised Raid by up to 100 Youths in Cork City Centr

mikeym

I wonder will there be a repeat attack?

Roversfan1

Tell me how wrote: »

Also, the migrants would be much better off if we didn't treat them like a bad smell once they got here.

We never got a vote on whether we wanted this or not. Treat them like a bad smell? What are you on about? Are we not giving enough free houses and entitlements?

Honestly, we'd have a lot less problems if we didn't allow this influx of people.

Tell me how

Relevant article

The story of the Irish Famine orphan girls shipped to Australia
Many of the 4,000 teenagers faced anti-Irish sentiment, discrimination and abuse , but were a resilient group

An excerpt from The Argus, which was Melbourne’s main newspaper of the day, on April 4th, 1850 said: “Another ship-load of female immigrants from Ireland has reached our shores, and yet, though everybody is crying out against the monstrous infliction, and the palpable waste of the immigration fund, furnished by the colonists in bringing out these worthless characters …”.

Another excerpt from The Argus on April 24th, 1850 of a citizen echoed society’s clamour:

“The whole country cries out against the further admission into our colony, of such degraded beings as the majority of the female orphans have been found.

Nor has their cry been raised without reason, for we venture to say, every vessel that brings an increase of this kind to our female population, brings a melancholy increase to the vice and lewdness that is now to seem rampant in every part of our town. From this class we have received no good servants for the wealthier classes in the towns, no efficient farm servants for the rural population, no virtuous, and industrious young women, fit wives for the labouring part of the community; and by the introduction of whom a strong barrier would be erected against the floods of iniquity that are now sweeping every trace of morality from the most public thoroughfares of our city.”

Tell me how

Roversfan1 wrote: »

We never got a vote on whether we wanted this or not. Treat them like a bad smell? What are you on about? Are we not giving enough free houses and entitlements?

Honestly, we'd have a lot less problems if we didn't allow this influx of people.

Well, if we had less people in the country, of course there would be more resources available. Ultimately though there would also be less revenue generated from tax and purchasing etc. Also, given the numbers of foreigners that work in the health system, if none of them were here, there may also be other issues.

I think many though use this angle as a weak excuse. They are similar voices as those that appear on threads about housing and social welfare which, to me, would indicate they are consistent only in their approach of thinking, as long as it isn't me suffering, we shouldn't be spending money on this issue.

Roversfan1

Tell me how wrote: »

Well, if we had less people in the country, of course there would be more resources available. Ultimately though there would also be less revenue generated from tax and purchasing etc. Also, given the numbers of foreigners that work in the health system, if none of them were here, there may also be other issues.

I think many though use this angle as a weak excuse. They are similar voices as those that appear on threads about housing and social welfare which, to me, would indicate they are consistent only in their approach of thinking, as long as it isn't me suffering, we shouldn't be spending money on this issue.

It is nothing to do with numbers.....if we had immigration from Japan instead we would not have these problems. You would not see a 60% unemployment rate for Japanese or Chinese or Polish for example.

This is just some stuff that we will now have to deal with and our children and their children will have to deal with which would not have been the case if we had none of this immigration.

As I said, we never voted for this.

Tell me how

Roversfan1 wrote: »

It is nothing to do with numbers.....if we had immigration from Japan instead we would not have these problems. You would not see a 60% unemployment rate for Japanese or Chinese or Polish for example.

This is just some stuff that we will now have to deal with and our children and their children will have to deal with which would not have been the case if we had none of this immigration.

As I said, we never voted for this.

We voted for our parliament members from which the government was formed to enact legislation for the country.

You can't have a management by committee on every little topic.

Woodsie1

Tell me how wrote: »

We voted for our parliament members from which the government was formed to enact legislation for the country.

You can't have a management by committee on every little topic.

Hardly a "little topic" now is it?

Tell me how

Woodsie1 wrote: »

Hardly a "little topic" now is it?

Where would you rate it amongst these topics (in no particular order).

Government Budget
Healthcare spending
Infrastructure projects
Justice system
Transport Strategy
Education reform
Migrant Strategy
Business and industry supports strategy
Climate and the environment.

Do you think we should all vote on the specifics of each of these items or do you think a migrant strategy is the most important item on the list?

Woodsie1

Tell me how wrote: »

Where would you rate it amongst these topics (in no particular order).

Government Budget
Healthcare spending
Infrastructure projects
Justice system
Transport Strategy
Education reform
Migrant Strategy
Business and industry supports strategy
Climate and the environment.

Do you think we should all vote on the specifics of each of these items or do you think a migrant strategy is the most important item on the list?

Maybe you should answer the question first.
Youve an awful habit of playing the whatabout game when your not comfortable.

Tell me how

Woodsie1 wrote: »

Maybe you should answer the question first.
Youve an awful habit of playing the whatabout game when your not comfortable.

I'm sorry, what are you talking about?

I mean, I know the subject being discussed, but I have no idea the point you are trying to make in this post.

And, I'm not uncomfortable, but thank you for being concerned.

suicide_circus

Mr E wrote: »

Mod: Let's stick to Cork for this thread, cheers.

to get back on topic:

Obviously the fact that 100 youths organised a raid on a business is bad. Is it more bad (worse) if it is conclusively proven that these youths were in the main from "new" communities?

I would say the crime remains the same but it suggests that we have gone down the same route as the rest of Europe ie: new communities are sticking with their own and are not really integrating. fair?

topper75

Mad_maxx wrote: »

"accused " ?

RTE are themselves one of the main drivers of the new PC authoritarianism

Very much an agenda-driven org.

I flicked across the channel on Sat night. I landed on RTÉ and saw Ray D'arcy had a crew on to talk about the asylum thing. He had two people who are now living in Ireland by means of the asylum process and then two Irish cheerleaders: Rea the actor and a girl who was head of the emigration museum. There was nobody with any kind of opposing voice.

I'll leave it up to your imagination on whether D'arcy asked any hard questions of them or even tried to play devil's advocate.

topper75

Woodsie1 wrote: »

Hardly a "little topic" now is it?

Well said. It is certainly a little more important on the minimum age of the president. They threw us that little bone easily enough didn't they?

The people of Ireland did get to vote at least on the anchor baby madness (thanks to McDowell, an old-style politician with balls).

It was no split decision let me tell you. Turkeys don't vote for Christmas.

Wibbs

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

What are European values Wibbs? I'm guessing the ones you're speaking to don't include knocking the shit out of each other for centuries, colonsing people with spears by killing them with machine guns, destroying people's culture, spreading disease, causing famines, industrialised slaughter etc.

Pick any world culture and they did the same. It's what humans tend to do, though to be fair Europeans seem to have been the "best" at it. In that sense they're probably the most dangerous population on the planet. However, on the other side of the balance sheet the modern world culture is very much European in nature, from large aspects of culture itself, through technology and human rights.

Tired Gardener wrote: »

Trade has been a big part of our history, due to the earth's resources not being uniformly spread across the planet. Yes, sometimes that trade comes through force, and sometimes it is skipped, but to say that trade only came about via colonisation is quite frankly laughably wrong.

It didn't only come via colonisation and violence, but that has been a feature of trade, right back to the same neolithic. There's plenty of evidence for that too and that's from a time when population densities were a fraction of what they became. When such densities reach a certain point then it's a near guarantee of conflict and colonisation over resources. Hell, the vast majority of Europeans today come from neolithic farmers that spread from the middle east and replaced the palaeolithic peoples that were here before.

As for human variation, this is due to the Earth having a wide range of biomes that have shaped not only our bodies, but also our culture. Living in say a hot desert makes drinking strong alcohol quite dangerous as it dehydrates and can cause one to wonder off and get lost.

Indeed, though the variation happened remarkably quickly considering the time frame involved and at the same time has remained remarkably stable when such variations have sprung up and travel and encountering other cultures became easier. Human groups and cultures tend to "stick to their own". Even in long standing multicultural regions this tends to be a strong trend. Take somewhere like Brazil with it's centuries long mix of European, African and Native American peoples. While each group will have genetic admixture from another group(s), they're all still overwhelmingly European, African and Native American in genetic makeup.

Tell me how wrote: »

You seem eager to take the examples of what are particular events (drug addled stabby blacks (quite the phrase it must be said)) and taking that as the norm. It isn't. What numbers are taking part in such practices as any sort of a percentage of those considered migrants?

In the UK who is more likely to be poor and involved in antisocial behaviour and crime: An AfroCaribbean, a European, an East Asian?

Also, the migrants would be much better off if we didn't treat them like a bad smell once they got here.

No doubt, but we, or at least many do treat them like that. I do not deny it. Racism is a major issue - and not just in one direction, but one that isn't going away any time soon.

And this thing of 'don't talk about the Irish who travelled' is BS. We did travel, we did work, but having attended the famine memorial in Boston just a few weeks ago, it is interesting how the reaction of many locals was exactly the same as what we are seeing in certain quarters back home now. Also, the world was a much different place when many Irish travelled in the case of having the authority to work. The days of rocking up and asking 'any chance of a start' as many Irish used to get their foot in the door is no longer possible in any country. We were just lucky, in a way, to have been able to travel so much before the opportunities became so restricted.

I've read some vague and at cross purposes stuff in my time, but that is surely up for some sort of prize... Never mind that you didn't address the points I made.

Wibbs

topper75 wrote: »

I'll leave it up to your imagination on whether D'arcy asked any hard questions of them or even tried to play devil's advocate.

To be fair T, for all the back and forth on this thread, I think there is at least one thing we would all be in agreement on and that's Ray D'Arcy couldn't ask a hard question on any matter if his life depended on it.

Kivaro

Roversfan1 wrote: »

It is nothing to do with numbers.....if we had immigration from Japan instead we would not have these problems. You would not see a 60% unemployment rate for Japanese or Chinese or Polish for example.

This is just some stuff that we will now have to deal with and our children and their children will have to deal with which would not have been the case if we had none of this immigration.

As I said, we never voted for this.

We will be able to vote our displeasure at the next General Election.
Unfortunately, the pickings are very slim. Fianna Fail are as bad as Fine Gael with their virtue signaling about asylum seekers. Their presupposition is that every single asylum applicant is 100% genuine; irrespective of whether they are from Nigeria, Pakistan, Albania or Georgia. The evidence overwhelmingly proves otherwise.

But a message needs to be sent to Charlie Flanagan and Simon Coveney.
The justice department is trying to enforce Coveney's edict of having diversity in every single village and town in Ireland by ramming direct provisions centers or asylum accommodation in remote 'un-provisioned' areas around the country.

I recommend a social experiment: Let's put all future direct provision centres and asylum accommodation in the constituencies of Charlie Flanagan and Simon Coveney. They will be easily re-elected if the voters agree with their stance. Let Flanagan and Coveney lead by example with their constituencies.

Wibbs

Kivaro wrote: »

Their presupposition is that every single asylum applicant is 100% genuine; irrespective of whether they are from Nigeria, Pakistan, Albania or Georgia. The evidence overwhelmingly proves otherwise.

Thankfully those in the department tasked with sifting through the applications are not taking this presupposition as a reality and are rejecting the vast majority of these so called "asylum" applicants. Essentially only Syrian folks are getting in, the rest from elsewhere are rejected. Being an island nation far from the Mediterranean has also helped us.

Raconteuse

Mongfinder General wrote: »

Giuliani style policing in city centers. New York was a serious kip in the early 1980’s. They basically put a cop on every block so if there was an incident then a cop was rarely more than a minute a way. It made New York safer and ultimately a place that people wanted to visit and live in.

I wouldn’t put an animal in Cork.

Ah god love anyone who thinks Cork is rough (I mean in general - obviously this incident is beyond scummy).

Kivaro

Wibbs wrote: »

Thankfully those in the department tasked with sifting through the applications are not taking this presupposition as a reality and are rejecting the vast majority of these so called "asylum" applicants. Essentially only Syrian folks are getting in, the rest from elsewhere are rejected. Being an island nation far from the Mediterranean has also helped us.

The problem though is the housing and welfare of all those rejected asylum seekers prior to that determination. The vast majority of these applicants from places like Albania etc. are housed and looked after for many years due to the appeal system. Hence the requirement for substantial housing all over the country for these applicants.
Greece experienced a similar problem; albeit on a much larger scale, so they recently passed a bill that stipulated that all asylum requests would be handled within 60 days.

We need to do something similar, and in parallel Ireland needs a system that helps refugees integrate into Irish society in a manner where we do see the incidences that occurred in Cork over the weekend.

Berserker

odyssey06 wrote: »

If 100 youths tried this in the 80s the guards would have knocked the living daylights out of them.
Which is why 100 youths would not have attempted such scumbaggery.

And their own parents would have knocked the living daylights out of them also. Far too many people in Ireland are not fit to be parents.

SporadicMan wrote: »

Lads, is anti-social behaviour particularly bad in Ireland?

Ireland is well on it's way also. Laughed off calls for transport police in Ireland based on my experience as a rail user during peak hours. Had reason to use the Maynooth line into Connolly on two occasions recently, during off-peak hours and I can see why people are calling for transport police. Teenagers, guys and girls, fighting. One girl who was about sixteen years old, told an OAP that she was going to get her b/f to "f-ing split him open" because he had the audacity to ask her to turn down her music. Another young lad told a thirty something year old woman that he wanted to "ride the ...... off her". These kids were middle class children from Leixlip and Leixlip Confey. We approached the security in Connolly about it and they told us to bugger off.

On a side note, two or three of the teenagers kept making the point that this is "modern Ireland". Can anyone tell me what that was supposed to mean?

NasserShammaz wrote: »

Here's a clue Charlie Flanagan most of the runts will be in a Christian or born again church on Sunday with their parents.

What are you on about? Is this some baseless jibe aimed at people who are born again?

Kivaro wrote: »

So instead of waiting for similar statistics to happen in Ireland, why not have a genuine discussion about the problem now?

If you want to have a conversation like that then you are going to be classified as racist, fascist, right wing .....

Gynoid

There is one odd mindset that I find...well..odd. It is looking around a population and stating as if it is unassailably noble that what this population could do with is dilution by immigration. I say this because I traveled a fair amount and NEVER once did I look around at the people in Kerala or China or Greece or any place on earth and think, these people are absolutely lovely but what they could really do with is dilution by immigration. It would have been an inconcievable thought. It would have smacked of arrogance, condescension and social engineering. Any people I traveled among were their own self sufficient people, in their own native settlements, with their own particular customs, history, art, mythology etc and to dream of ensuring that many newcomers should enter those settlements would have seemed a tyrannical thought. One would not dream to speak of dilution in Kenya or Japan or Iran or anywhere else but apparently Europe is weak without it.

Raconteuse

Connolly security did not tell you to bugger off.

Raconteuse

Gynoid wrote: »

There is one odd mindset that I find...well..odd. It is looking around a population and stating as if it is unassailably noble that what this population could do with is dilution by immigration. I say this because I traveled a fair amount and NEVER once did I look around at the people in Kerala or China or Greece or any place on earth and think, these people are absolutely lovely but what they could really do with is dilution by immigration. It would have been an inconcievable thought. It would have smacked of arrogance, condescension and social engineering. Any people I traveled among were their own self sufficient people, in their own native settlements, with their own particular customs, history, art, mythology etc and to dream of ensuring that many newcomers should enter those settlements would have seemed a tyrannical thought. One would not dream to speak of dilution in Kenya or Japan or Iran or anywhere else but apparently Europe is weak without it.

Ireland has to be one of the most self loathing societies on the planet though. You only have to look at this forum.

Eric Cartman

Raconteuse wrote: »

Ireland has to be one of the most self loathing societies on the planet though. You only have to look at this forum.

Its true, despite never colonising anyone, starting any wars or being a part of apartheid states etc... the inherint white guilt in our society leaves us laying our tye red carpet and acting as front and centre apologists for the criminals we import

Wibbs

Gynoid wrote: »

One would not dream to speak of dilution in Kenya or Japan or Iran or anywhere else but apparently Europe is weak without it.

Maybe Japan as they're seen as xenophobic(and only if such "diversity" wasn't pale of face and European), but otherwise yep G, pretty much so. Bunch of Whites show up in a Black country, why that's terrible, colonial mindset etc etc(and it usually is/was), bunch of Blacks show up in a White country, why, isn't diversity wonderful, it's all positive.

I wonder where this whole White Guilt/self loathing trend comes from? In the Anglosphere(and it tends to be much more prevalent there) I would say that American college campus thought was a big influence initially. It's at least more understandable there, as the palefaces did screw over the natives and damned near wiped them out, then imported hundreds of thousands of West Africans to be worked and/or raped, often to death. It's still very much living with that legacy today, so I can understand some White Americans feeling rightfully aggrieved by that history. Ireland not nearly so much. About the only explanation or excuse we tend to use as currency is that we were welcomed as immigrants once. Even though we usually weren't.

Gynoid

Wibbs wrote: »

Maybe Japan as they're seen as xenophobic(and only if such "diversity" wasn't pale of face and European), but otherwise yep G, pretty much so. Bunch of Whites show up in a Black country, why that's terrible, colonial mindset etc etc(and it usually is/was), bunch of Blacks show up in a White country, why, isn't diversity wonderful, it's all positive.

I wonder where this whole White Guilt/self loathing trend comes from? In the Anglosphere(and it tends to be much more prevalent there) I would say that American college campus thought was a big influence initially. It's at least more understandable there, as the palefaces did screw over the natives and damned near wiped them out, then imported hundreds of thousands of West Africans to be worked and/or raped, often to death. It's still very much living with that legacy today, so I can understand some White Americans feeling rightfully aggrieved by that history. Ireland not nearly so much. About the only explanation or excuse we tend to use as currency is that we were welcomed as immigrants once. Even though we usually weren't.

I dont even know if it is white guilt, which as you say should not affect here, I wonder if it is some shiny globalism dream that has been propagandised or subtly sold to people. When I hear people speak unreservedly in praise of migration and open borders to all intents, it sounds like Star Trek sci fi feels . A quick look at some under cover mosque reports with UK preachers calling fir quiet infiltration until the Umma can prevail or yesterday Mark Stone in a refugee camp in Syria where a child openly vowed to slaughter infidels evaporates all my utopian impulses, I must say.

Tell me how

Wibbs wrote: »

Maybe Japan as they're seen as xenophobic(and only if such "diversity" wasn't pale of face and European), but otherwise yep G, pretty much so. Bunch of Whites show up in a Black country, why that's terrible, colonial mindset etc etc(and it usually is/was), bunch of Blacks show up in a White country, why, isn't diversity wonderful, it's all positive.

I wonder where this whole White Guilt/self loathing trend comes from? In the Anglosphere(and it tends to be much more prevalent there) I would say that American college campus thought was a big influence initially. It's at least more understandable there, as the palefaces did screw over the natives and damned near wiped them out, then imported hundreds of thousands of West Africans to be worked and/or raped, often to death. It's still very much living with that legacy today, so I can understand some White Americans feeling rightfully aggrieved by that history. Ireland not nearly so much. About the only explanation or excuse we tend to use as currency is that we were welcomed as immigrants once. Even though we usually weren't.

You seem to think any motivation towards compassion is motivated in a racial/cultural guilt.
It isn't.
You can be empathetic towards the needs of others without feeling you have a debt to pay.
I know some people, even in current every day life, operate with a quid pro quo mindset. Thankfully, not everyone does.

Also, I specifically posted a link on how famine immigrants were not welcomed in Australia and commented on Irish experiences in US at the same time.

weldoninhio

Tell me how wrote: »

You seem eager to take the examples of what are particular events (drug addled stabby blacks (quite the phrase it must be said)) and taking that as the norm. It isn't. What numbers are taking part in such practices as any sort of a percentage of those considered migrants?

Also, the migrants would be much better off if we didn't treat them like a bad smell once they got here.

And this thing of 'don't talk about the Irish who travelled' is BS. We did travel, we did work, but having attended the famine memorial in Boston just a few weeks ago, it is interesting how the reaction of many locals was exactly the same as what we are seeing in certain quarters back home now. Also, the world was a much different place when many Irish travelled in the case of having the authority to work. The days of rocking up and asking 'any chance of a start' as many Irish used to get their foot in the door is no longer possible in any country. We were just lucky, in a way, to have been able to travel so much before the opportunities became so restricted.

Jesus, I knew some people were completely one-eyed about immigration, but claiming we were lucky we got a famine when we did is a bit f'king much!! :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Harvey Weinstein

Raconteuse wrote: »

Ireland has to be one of the most self loathing societies on the planet though. You only have to look at this forum.

Yep, and this is one of the most (if not the most) important conversations about Ireland that needs to take place.
How did this happen? I like to think of myself as somewhat clued in but the profound self loathing of Irish people seems to have passed me by and I struggle to understand it.
Did it happen in schools? I left school at the end of the 90's and I can't recall anything in my 6 years that would cause me to develop a hatred for Ireland. Maybe it came after.
I have childhood friends who came from privileged backgrounds and now speak about things like the Catholic oppression of their youth when I know myself that they never set foot in a church basically after they made their confirmation.
They were so utterly untouched by anything to do with the church I can inly surmise that they are suffering from false memory syndrome or are victims of propaganda.
Same with the 80's and 90's...they were nowhere near as bad as people make them out to be, yet there's this commonly held idea that this period was some kind of oppressive hellscape.

Harvey Weinstein

Wibbs wrote: »

Maybe Japan as they're seen as xenophobic(and only if such "diversity" wasn't pale of face and European), but otherwise yep G, pretty much so. Bunch of Whites show up in a Black country, why that's terrible, colonial mindset etc etc(and it usually is/was), bunch of Blacks show up in a White country, why, isn't diversity wonderful, it's all positive.

I wonder where this whole White Guilt/self loathing trend comes from? In the Anglosphere(and it tends to be much more prevalent there) I would say that American college campus thought was a big influence initially. It's at least more understandable there, as the palefaces did screw over the natives and damned near wiped them out, then imported hundreds of thousands of West Africans to be worked and/or raped, often to death. It's still very much living with that legacy today, so I can understand some White Americans feeling rightfully aggrieved by that history. Ireland not nearly so much. About the only explanation or excuse we tend to use as currency is that we were welcomed as immigrants once. Even though we usually weren't.

Whats so sick about this "sure the Irish emigrated everywhere" reasoning for mass immigration, is that emigration had such a devastating effect on Ireland for a long time.