Syrian refugee student wins state scholarship

1641

1641 wrote: »

Japan has long been associated with preserving its ethnic and cultural purity. But they have recently changed tack. The Government's positive moves towards immigration in recent years has been portrayed as a gradual opening up which will progress as society adapts.

Yeah, but integration of those migrants is unlikely. Most Japanese view marrying a foreigner as being shameful. I dated a Japanese girl for two years, met her parents, and while they were very nice, there was zero chance of marrying. They were okay with us dating and living together while in China, but were adamantly opposed to us getting married. It wasn't about money or anything like that, since I was earning very good money even for Japan.. it was the introduction of foreign blood into the family.

The Japanese have serious issues with their birth rate because of changes in culture but also because there are so many taboos about marrying a foreigner. The funny thing is that you'll see many Japanese comparing lineage to see who is the "purest" Japanese person in a group, because so many Japanese have mixed blood from other immigrants who never gained legal status. Others won't care at all because they're sure there's no contamination. My ex could trace her lineage back over 800 years... her parents made a rather big deal about it.

The government changes aim to address the labor shortage, not encourage their racial purity to be diluted. If you can't appreciate that, then you should spend some time in Japan. It's a rather racist nation, but then most of Asia is, in one form or another. Absolutely love Japan though. Fantastic country and mostly wonderful people.

osarusan

RandomName2 wrote: »

Granted Japan will die out as things currently stand, but that is something that can easily be reversed in a single generation.

Here's the English-language submission website for comments on the administration of Japan.

https://www.kantei.go.jp/foreign/forms/comment_ssl.html

Knock yourself out.

I'm sure they'll be incredibly relieved to hear that the low birth rates and population decline, which they have been trying to solve since at least 1992 if not earlier, is actually something 'that can easily be reversed in a single generation.'

recedite

Akabusi wrote: »

I wouldn't be to hard on them that they fled to the UAE, they just did what anyone would have done who had the means to do so when things went to Sh*t in Syria.

Nobody is complaining about that. They were living and working there in UAE quite happily, while waiting for somebody to rebuild Syria.
The issue is that they fled to Ireland when they saw the fees for RCSI Dubai.
Well, at least the wife and daughter did. The father had a well paid job to look after.


No doubt the daughter worked hard for her leaving cert and fully deserves the good grade. I'm amazed at how "clued in" they were though. Its as if somebody was advising them on how to play the system.


How many bonus points does somebody like that get in the CAO system, for being an asylum seeker?

All college fees paid for by the Irish state, in a private college. Other foreigners are paying a fortune to study at RCSI Dublin.

Getting same SUSI maintenance grant as any EU citizen, plus a €5000 per year salary being this new government Campbell Bursary. Which only seems to be available to certain people attending Deis schools. They girl didn't attend the nearest secondary school, she specifically went to a Deis school instead (saying something about the subject choices there being better).

1641

Wibbs wrote: »

If the issue is a demographic one then that's precisely why they're being taken in. We're not having enough kids, bring in people who will.

Taking Japan as an example. They are not taking in people as "breeders". They are taking in people to work because of the changing demographic, principally the aging of society. ""Breeding" will be an inevitable consequence (and a positive one, in my opinion) but it is not "precisely why they are being taken in".


As regards Ireland currently. The CSO 2019 Q2 Labour Force survey estimated that of the 1,920,000 people then in employment in Ireland, approximately 380,000 were non-Irish nationals - that is almost 20%. Of these close on 98,000 were non-EU nationals.

As we have functionally full (or almost full) employment that is a lot of non-national people who are needed to keep the economy going. I don't know the age demographic but I'd guess that a bigger proportion of these people are of reproductive age than in the general population and many will be "breeding". But they were not brought in to "breed".
Culturally we are changing and will continue to change, like it or not.We can try to adapt to that and manage it as best we can or we can rage against it. While there will always be problems (as there would be without immigration) they will be much worse if the rage machine approach predominates.

https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/er/lfs/labourforcesurveyquarter22019/

Roversfan1

Akabusi wrote: »

I read the first couple of pages and then skipped to the last page and had to double check i was still in the same thread.

Fair play to this girl and her family, I hope they make Ireland their permanent home, as asylum seekers go these are the gold standard. A country like ours needs these people. By that, I mean the parents are educated professionals, ready to work in sectors where we have serious skills shortages in this country. We committed to take in so many anyhow (which I am fully supportive off), it is a bonus when we get readily qualified refugees who can contribute hugely to our country. Yes the daughter gets a scholarship to study, so what, I and thousands of other Irish students got grants to study back in the day.

I wouldn't be to hard on them that they fled to the UAE, they just did what anyone would have done who had the means to do so when things went to Sh*t in Syria.

Do you feel strong enough about this to sponsor refugees on your own initiative?

The problem is RTE have an agenda and only show positive stories like this while ignoring the negatives.

Aegir wrote: »

they actually have a housing problem in Japan at the moment. Not in the way we do, but rather what to do with all the empty housing left behind by the shrinking population.

So there are too many places for people to live and the prices are going down? Disaster

What you are saying is not true anyway. House prices are more or less flat.

1641

Deleted User wrote: »

Y

The government changes aim to address the labor shortage, not encourage their racial purity to be diluted. If you can't appreciate that, then you should spend some time in Japan. It's a rather racist nation, but then most of Asia is, in one form or another. Absolutely love Japan though. Fantastic country and mostly wonderful people.

Appreciate that but with a large increase in immigration and more domestic contact with foreigners, do you see that changing?
If not they are in for big trouble - how not to manage immigration!

SchrodingersCat

Roversfan1 wrote: »

Maybe you should visit Japan and stop listening to the same news that is reporting these stories to you.Japan is a safe well organised country.

At the risk of questioning your credentials on the current Japanese socioeconomic status, I think I will refer to their Prime Minister who describes it as a "national emergency".
Why do you keep pushing this strange Japanese analogy anyway? What has this got to do with a Syrian refugee girl getting a state scholarship?

RandomName2

osarusan wrote: »

Here's the English-language submission website for comments on the administration of Japan.

https://www.kantei.go.jp/foreign/forms/comment_ssl.html

Knock yourself out.

I'm sure they'll be incredibly relieved to hear that the low birth rates and population decline, which they have been trying to solve since at least 1992 if not earlier, is actually something 'that can easily be reversed in a single generation.'

And you should write to the Bangladeshi government telling them how alarmed they should be by their imminent population decline.

Brian? wrote: »

Here’s how it works:

Poster A: I have no problem with genuine refugees, it’s illegal immigrants I object to.

Response: this woman and her family are genuine refugees from Syria UAE

Are we allowed to say that they came from UAE, or is that verboten? I mean, that's a big deal, why did they leave UAE? There might have been genuinely good reasons to leave UAE.. it is possible that the government there wasn't very hospitable... but we aren't likely to know if nobody asks the question (if they are allowed to). So are they allowed to?

1641

recedite wrote: »

Nobody is complaining about that. They were living and working there in UAE quite happily, while waiting for somebody to rebuild Syria.
The issue is that they fled to Ireland when they saw the fees for RCSI Dubai.

How many bonus points does somebody like that get in the CAO system, for being an asylum seeker?

All college fees paid for by the Irish state, in a private college. Other foreigners are paying a fortune to study at RCSI Dublin.

Getting same SUSI maintenance grant as any EU citizen, plus a €5000 per year salary being this new government Campbell Bursary. Which only seems to be available to certain people attending Deis schools. They girl didn't attend the nearest secondary school, she specifically went to a Deis school instead (saying something about the subject choices there being better).

You are big on the suppositions and innuendos.
How do you know how "happy" they were in UAE. They were never going to get asylum there in any case.


Do you know of any "bonus points" for asylum seekers. Please enlighten us and give a link. Or is it a slur.


The Government pay fees for Irish people attending RCSI. Having been granted refugee status she qualified for this. And, of course, You have no problem with bone fide asylum seekers, right?


She wanted maximum science subjects. I don'y know if these were available in her local school, do you. But anyway, This bursary was not announced until she was well into her Leaving Cert year. So she could hardly have arranged to have gone to a DEIS school to avail of it, could she?

recedite

Brian? wrote: »

Here’s how it works:

Poster A: I have no problem with genuine refugees, it’s illegal immigrants I object to.

Response: this woman and her family are genuine refugees immigrants from Syria UAE

A: Well we should only take in refugees immigrants who will contribute to society

R: her parents are civil engineers and she’s training to be a doctor

A: in that case they’re not refugees they’re economic migrants. They cheated the system. Deport them. Fix the asylum system, get these skilled workers working, and get them to pay tax instead of drawing down every benefit that has ever been invented.


R: huh?
RR: Yeah.

FYP

recedite

1641 wrote: »

You are big on the suppositions and innuendos.
How do you know how "happy" they were in UAE. They were never going to get asylum there in any case.

Why should Dubai grant asylum? They want workers, not scroungers. And as a minority in their own country, they would be very foolish to hand out citizenship to all the guestworkers.
The father, being an engineer, obviously got into the Emirates on a work visa. He and the family could have have stayed on there indefinitely. Or he could have chosen to go back and help rebuild Syria. Lots of choices.

4068ac1elhodqr

If only we have more (mostly genuine) seekers of asylum from Syria last year, instead 2018 was mostly folks from elsewhere taking up valuable processing resources
- taking a chance from states (not at war), not really in need: and thus very, very high rejection rates for IPO.



Anyway assuming she was in genuine need, we can therefore all wish this young lady well.

Guess she will be in the top3 or so hands-on occupations, that would be so very desperatly needed by Syria, going forward?
As they rebuild (civil engineers) their homeland, and heal the many physical (medical specalists), and mental (psychs) scars.

SchrodingersCat

Where is this notion that Syrian refugees can return to their country currently coming from?
How do we know that they have something to return to? How do we know that it is safe for them to return? They could have been on the loosing side of the war, for example, and cant safely return. If you think the war is over, there are a few Kurds who would like a word. How do we know that they want to return, after rebuilding a life somewhere else?

Donald Trump

recedite wrote: »

Nobody is complaining about that. They were living and working there in UAE quite happily, while waiting for somebody to rebuild Syria.
The issue is that they fled to Ireland when they saw the fees for RCSI Dubai.
Well, at least the wife and daughter did. The father had a well paid job to look after.

It's in the third of the very short paragraphs of the very link you posted.

RCSI-Dubai offers postgraduate education, training and consultancy in leadership, management, patient safety and quality.

It's not a medical school for training doctors. Does postgraduate courses for further study.

recedite wrote: »

Getting same SUSI maintenance grant as any EU citizen, plus a €5000 per year salary being this new government Campbell Bursary. Which only seems to be available to certain people attending Deis schools. They girl didn't attend the nearest secondary school, she specifically went to a Deis school instead (saying something about the subject choices there being better).

I mentioned this point earlier. But I also know an Irish person who went to a private secondary school for their first shot at the Leaving and then repeated for one-year in school in Dublin city centre in order to get into Trinity under their TAP. If anyone on here is bitter in their own head that they would have been a great doctor but their 300 points in the Leaving stopped them - well you always had the possibility of mature student entry at 23 - even before this HPAT stuff.

Beechwoodspark

Thanks to ppl on this thread for informative information that I was not aware of

So it seems there are serious serious questions that need to be answered on this one?

They say the best disinfectant is to bring things into the sunlight. We need transparency and clarity on this case. What are they afraid of?

SchrodingersCat

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Thanks to ppl on this thread for informative information that I was not aware of

So it seems there are serious serious questions that need to be answered on this one?

They say the best disinfectant is to bring things into the sunlight. We need transparency and clarity on this case. What are they afraid of?

What are you referring to?

Beechwoodspark

Read back the thread. There’s some surprising information.

RandomName2

SchrodingersCat wrote: »

Where is this notion that Syrian refugees can return to their country currently coming from?
How do we know that they have something to return to? How do we know that it is safe for them to return? They could have been on the loosing side of the war, for example, and cant safely return. If you think the war is over, there are a few Kurds who would like a word. How do we know that they want to return, after rebuilding a life somewhere else?

I wouldn't necessarily assume that.

Most of the country is under the control of the Syrian government. While a relatively stable and sane institution it is well known for human rights violations. If it deems anybody to have acted against the regime during the civil war, returning to areas directly administered by Damascus (which is most of the country) would be in danger.

Would genuine refugees have acted against the government? Perhaps. Their families may have initally supported the Free Syrian Army (reasonable) or perhaps organizations like Al Nusra or ISIL (a somewhat alarming prospect). Al Nusra supporters would probably find succor in Idlib (which is essentially run by an off shoot of Al Qaeda) but the Syrian government has made it clear they want to reconquer Idlib province.

Leaving aside whether somebody returning to Syria might be persecuted by the Syrian (or Turkish) governments, there certainly will be a lot of rebuilding to do in much of the country. It still isn't entirely stable, as witnessed by the brief Turkish invasion last month.

biko

This thread is getting very meta* now












*this means to discuss the discussion instead of discussing the topic.

recedite

Lewis Creamy Stepdaughter wrote: »

Anyway assuming she was in genuine need, we can therefore all wish this young lady well.

5 years surviving the oppressive heat of a Dubai summer. Tough. But as she said herself, serving her time in an Irish DP centre was the toughest thing in her life.
Is there something of a contradiction there? I mean, isn't the thing the asylum seeker is fleeing from supposed to be the toughest thing?

SchrodingersCat wrote: »

Guess she will be in the top3 or so hands-on occupations, that would be so very desperatly needed by Syria, going forward?
As they rebuild (civil engineers) their homeland, and heal the many physical (medical specalists), and mental (psychs) scars.

Where would you see her working in 6 years time; Dublin, Damascus, or Dubai? (Obviously a rhetorical question, nobody can answer)

SchrodingersCat wrote: »

How do we know that they want to return, after rebuilding a life somewhere else?

That's a separate question to whether they can return when the war is over. Which it is, in most parts of the country.

RandomName2

Donald Trump wrote: »

I mentioned this point earlier. But I also know an Irish person who went to a private secondary school for their first shot at the Leaving and then repeated for one-year in school in Dublin city centre in order to get into Trinity under their TAP. If anyone on here is bitter in their own head that they would have been a great doctor but their 300 points in the Leaving stopped them - well you always had the possibility of mature student entry at 23 - even before this HPAT stuff.

Mature entry caries with it €16 K fees.

A court case was brought by an Irish student (who lost out by 5 points) who said that they should be allowed entry to undergraduate medicine the same way as non-EU students (you get a place if you're prepared to pay €30 K) but he lost the case.

RCSI doesn't just use CAO and HPAT points for access to its course. It also seems to have copied the noxious American habit of having interviews to access the candidate's suitability owing to the limited places available.

recedite

Life in Damascus 12 months ago.
Its probably improved since then.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCiwVZ7RZVg

Wibbs

1641 wrote: »

Culturally we are changing and will continue to change, like it or not.We can try to adapt to that and manage it as best we can or we can rage against it. While there will always be problems (as there would be without immigration) they will be much worse if the rage machine approach predominates

There will always be problems indeed and given many many decades of other European countries that have tried to make this multicultural dream - and it is a dream - work and yet they've as many if not more social issues on all sides as they ever had. How are we going to manage to do it differently? Magic?

It's already looking unlikely, though thank christ on a much smaller scale than many of our European neighbours. Would that it was only the actual refugees from Syria. Forget the DP centres with small numbers of refugees that are facing push back, look at the population of non EU migrants that came here during the "boom", usually illegally, often enough heavily pregnant. They've already started to coalesce in areas as immigrants, particularly those of a different culture or skin colour, tend to do everywhere. Naturally enough too, people tend to prefer to be "among their own", which in itself shows up this idealised melting pot for the ballsology it is. Now watch how those areas turn to crap in the coming decades and we'll be multicultural like all the others alright, but not in the naive sense some seem to cling to. Thankfully we've seemed to cop onto the scammers and dodgy types from places other than Syria and long may that continue.

1641 wrote: »

Appreciate that but with a large increase in immigration and more domestic contact with foreigners, do you see that changing?
If not they are in for big trouble - how not to manage immigration!

Or maybe that's how they'll actually manage it, by not buying into the western "liberal" way of doing things, a way that hasn't exactly worked. If you look at history and those multicultural societies that did work, that didn't have ghettos along cultural or race lines, they were all very "right wing" cultures that brooked little dissent and expected integration into the mainstream or sod off, or worse.

SchrodingersCat

recedite wrote: »

SchrodingersCat wrote: »

Guess she will be in the top3 or so hands-on occupations, that would be so very desperatly needed by Syria, going forward?
As they rebuild (civil engineers) their homeland, and heal the many physical (medical specalists), and mental (psychs) scars.

That's a separate question to whether they can return when the war is over. Which it is, in most parts of the country.

You have both misquoted me ( i never said that) and ignored the point of my post: How can you assume that it is safe for Syrian refugees to return and that they have something to return to? For example, if you weren't on the government side of the conflict, you have a genuine reason of safety in not being able to return to most of the country.

1641

RandomName2 wrote: »

RCSI doesn't just use CAO and HPAT points for access to its course. It also seems to have copied the noxious American habit of having interviews to access the candidate's suitability owing to the limited places available.

Where do you get this rubbish? Just randomly make it up?
Go to the CAO website and you will see the CAO points for RCSI and the combined CAO and HPAT points for 2019 medicine.

RandomName2

1641 wrote: »

Where do you get this rubbish? Just randomly make it up?
Go to the CAO website and you will see the CAO points for RCSI and the combined CAO and HPAT points for 2019 medicine.

What I say is 100% true, though it isn't used across the board. It would presumably be applicable for the student whom this thread is about.

https://www.rcsi.com/dublin/undergraduate/application-information/admissions-interviews

Interviews are used for non-EU applicants and Irish students not applying by CAO.

Roversfan1

SchrodingersCat wrote: »

You have both misquoted me ( i never said that) and ignored the point of my post: How can you assume that it is safe for Syrian refugees to return and that they have something to return to? For example, if you weren't on the government side of the conflict, you have a genuine reason of safety in not being able to return to most of the country.

I'm sure every Syrian in Ireland was not on the government side of the conflict.....probably every Albanian, Georgian, Nigerian and Pakistani too.

1641

RandomName2 wrote: »

It's only for some courses. It would presumably be applicable for the student whom this thread is about.

https://www.rcsi.com/dublin/undergraduate/application-information/admissions-interviews

For the relevant one under consideration here. Otherwise the Bursary would not have been payable and you and your pals would not have been triggered.

jmayo

circadian wrote: »

Sweet jesus, a good news thread getting dragged down by the usual ****e. Well done CA.

Maybe it is because it is a propaganda piece being pushed to sell a narrative about asylum seekers.

This would be the same media that pedaled the narrative in the last week that people in Mayo were refusing to take in 13 vulnerable female asylum seekers, even though the bigger picture was that they were initially being forced to take in 38 single men.
Not a woman in sight initially.

Loads of glossy pictures to boot.
Funny they never have the glossy pics when it is an asylum seeker leaving court for jail after being found guilty of major assault.
And there have been more of these than this feel good success story.

God bless the indo they even throw in the pic of poor Syrian refugees queing in trucks trying to cross the border to Lebanon.
Somehow from her history it seems she didn't have that trip.

I guess a pic of an Emirates airplane wouldn't have tugged the heartstrings as much.

Anyway fair dues to this girl she has done well and looks like a bright girl with a bright future.
Maybe she will work in the HSE, then again it might bring back bad memories of her time in DP in Monaghan.

BTW I don't like fact she doesn't want to be engineer like her parents, what's wrong with engineers

But lets not pretend that she is what passes for the vast majority of asylum seekers coming to Ireland nor that she is even the normal Syrian asylum seeker fleeing the war there.

RandomName2

1641 wrote: »

For the relevant one under consideration here. Otherwise the Bursary would not have been payable and you and your pals would not have been triggered.

She's presumably a non-EU applicant, and I'm not certain it's even been ascertained that she applied by CAO. Therefore I'd assume that she was subject to the interview process. I'm not triggered, but even if I were, it shouldn't make what I say any more or less valid. Why are you attacking my criticism of an interview process as a means of entry to study?