Syrian refugee student wins state scholarship

Donald Trump

Wibbs wrote: »

I hear you DT, this "oh noes we're running outa people, what about our pensions" is a line that's been spun for years now as a call to have more kids, or more to import more people. I can well understand people buying into it. It's like background noise, especially in places like Germany(they've been here before and brought in a load of Turkish folks and read up on how that went...). However we are not Germany or other European states with a fall off in population.* The Irish population has been steadily going up and continues to go up. We do not have a demographic crises or anything like it. And this is provable reality. It shows how deep this spun line goes, when many rational people will still question it.


*something I would consider a positive long term.

My understanding is that the big problem with the Turks in Germany was that the subsequent generations were kinda left in a somewhat stateless position.

Ireland has a lot of (legal) immigrants. Most of those tend to be the age where they'd be having kids so if that were the case it would help to skew reality a little to keep those numbers up.

Wibbs

Donald Trump wrote: »

My understanding is that the big problem with the Turks in Germany was that the subsequent generations were kinda left in a somewhat stateless position.

Oh that was a large part of it D, but when we look Europewide, modern "multiculturalism" has done few Europeans many favour. Hell, it's done the non Europeans trying to live in it no favours either. If you map out the most troubled population centres in Europe, you will tend to find there are more non native such places than native. It is a failed ideology, but sadly a social and historical fact resistant one.

Ireland has a lot of (legal) immigrants. Most of those tend to be the age where they'd be having kids so if that were the case it would help to skew reality a little to keep those numbers up.

A) Currently and thankfully for the sake of all they're a small percentage of the population of this country, and Ireland's population has been growing decade upon decade with very few blips in that trajectory and C) we don't need more people.

Roversfan1

1641 wrote: »

What is this manufactured outrage about?

I have not suggested bringing them over here. I am merely pointing out some facts to another poster who indicated his view that the Syrian refugee crisis was over and that all Syrians should now go home. Is this forbidden? Does it offend you?

Yeah it does offend me....I consider it hate speech against the rest of the people struggling in the world that are not highlighted in the news.

Have a look at Damascus from a tourists point of view in 2019 and tell me again. I am planning to visit that country next year actually through Dubai once I get the visa sorted which is not as straightforward as a while ago.

wiggle16

Roversfan1 wrote: »

Have a look at Damascus from a tourists point of view in 2019 and tell me again. I am planning to visit that country next year actually through Dubai once I get the visa sorted which is not as straightforward as a while ago.

My heart bleeds for you...

boring accountant

Donald Trump wrote: »

To be fair, and I am not saying your point is not valid, but your graph/data shows that Ireland has highest birthrate in Europe, not that it is above replacement rate.

It my well be, but that data alone doesn't prove it. It could happen that all countries in Europe are below replacement rate...just that Ireland is the "least worst" of them

We don't really need to replace every person anyway. Gradual population decline is desirable. For the environment and for the fact that the economy will in future be able to produce more with less need for labour.



It's bad news for credit institutions that build their models on infinite growth, but the reality is that there won't be jobs for people in future. Jobs are being replaced en masse and that process will only accelerate. And it's not just low wage jobs. Bankers, lawyers and accountants are all on the chopping block.

Next recession will see massive layoffs and when the economy recovers it will do so with fewer workers than before.

Roversfan1

Even if we had a low population growth rate.......so what?

Japan is going through this now and it is doing fine.

If we had a little less people maybe we wouldn't have a housing issue.

jmreire

Omackeral wrote: »

I know it's a meme at this stage but these people are literally doctors and engineers. There should be absolutely nothing negative about this here you would think but people will still have a whinge no doubt!

As soon as the war in Syria started in earnest, the one's who could get out did. And they were the well educated one's, and had the money and connection's to escape ...they knew full well what was coming down the road. So it's no surprise that they are showing up ,ow

jmreire

boring accountant wrote: »

We don't really need to replace every person anyway. Gradual population decline is desirable. For the environment and for the fact that the economy will in future be able to produce more with less need for labour.



It's bad news for credit institutions that build their models on infinite growth, but the reality is that there won't be jobs for people in future. Jobs are being replaced en masse and that process will only accelerate. And it's not just low wage jobs. Bankers, lawyers and accountants are all on the chopping block.

Next recession will see massive layoffs and when the economy recovers it will do so with fewer workers than before.

What the world should be aiming for, is a reduction in population...Planet earth is fast becoming over populated..and couple this with ever-decreasing food production ( due to global warming ) we are fast heading for catastrophe.

SchrodingersCat

Roversfan1 wrote: »

Even if we had a low population growth rate.......so what?

Japan is going through this now and it is doing fine.

I don't know of anyone else that would describe it as "fine". The prime minister has described it as a "national emergency". They have had to raise taxes to cope with the increase in health care costs for the older population. They have passed laws to allow for easier immigration to cope with the worst labour shortage in decades.

boring accountant

SchrodingersCat wrote: »

I don't know of anyone else that would describe it as "fine". The prime minister has described it as a "national emergency". They have had to raise taxes to cope with the increase in health care costs for the older population. They have passed laws to allow for easier immigration to cope with the worst labour shortage in decades.

Japan's decline has been particularly sharp and long lasting. Couple that with decades of deflation. Ireland is not approaching a "national emergency" in population decline. Nor is any European country. Not even close.

biko

SchrodingersCat wrote: »

Suaad’s mother and father are both engineers

Not so surprising she has done well, I'm sure the parents have led by example and supported and encouraged her.

The energy, skills and motivation shown by her parents and her will be needed to help rebuild Syria.

Donald Trump

boring accountant wrote: »

We don't really need to replace every person anyway. Gradual population decline is desirable. For the environment and for the fact that the economy will in future be able to produce more with less need for labour.

Well sure do your bit and don't reproduce.....shouldn't be too much of a stretch for a self-proclaimed "boring accountant"

boring accountant wrote: »

It's bad news for credit institutions that build their models on infinite growth, but the reality is that there won't be jobs for people in future. Jobs are being replaced en masse and that process will only accelerate. And it's not just low wage jobs. Bankers, lawyers and accountants are all on the chopping block.

On an overall basis, the people who are smart enough to become lawyers or accountants (boring or otherwise) will probably adapt better to changes, due to automation and technology, compared your average person who got an average Leaving and just went labouring or doing casual jobs afterward

boring accountant wrote: »

Next recession will see massive layoffs and when the economy recovers it will do so with fewer workers than before.

Mass unemployment due to technology has been forecast as imminent ever since the days of the Luddites smashing up looms.

A fair proportion of the graduates coming out of university are going into roles today that people would not have dreamed would exist 25 years ago.

Stovepipe

Tasfasdf wrote: »

Why are rte telling us of this one girl achievement, sure aren't all immigrants from Syria highly educated engineers and doctors etc.

I worked in Syria for a short while in 1996 and they tend to be well educated, literate, smart and willing to work hard. Old Assad, may he rot in hell, made a big deal about free education for his people, especially secondary education and a strong focus on medicine and engineering. they are also first class hucksters of the finest order, always looking for a good deal and they are great traders, having extensive contacts throughout Lebanon, Iraq, Jordan and so on, regardless of borders.

gozunda

jmreire wrote: »

What the world should be aiming for, is a reduction in population...Planet earth is fast becoming over populated..and couple this with ever-decreasing food production ( due to global warming ) we are fast heading for catastrophe.

I'd agree regarding the world population. The thing is though that due to advancements in agricultural efficiency and advancement - there has never been so much food produced for so many. Currently there is no world food shortage. Most issues regarding food distribution is down to corruption and poor governance..

https://www.worldhunger.org/letter-food-shortage-world-questions/

Tell me how

suicide_circus wrote: »

no one is "outraged" that the kid got a scholarship. People are however resistant to blatant spin. At a time when there is resistance to DP centres around the country, this just happens to make the front page of several national newspapers? Come on. People dont like being manipulated. I wish this girl and her family all the best.

No. No you don't.

boring accountant

Donald Trump wrote: »

Mass unemployment due to technology has been forecast as imminent ever since the days of the Luddites smashing up looms.

A fair proportion of the graduates coming out of university are going into roles today that people would not have dreamed would exist 25 years ago.

My point is not that there will be mass unemployment, but the value of labour will decrease. The value of knowledge and technical skills will increase.


Companies that are now investing in automation may not be laying off workers en masse (although some are - suggest looking at recent layoffs in banking) but they will come recession time. And when they do many of the processes they once required will be fully performed by machines and those jobs will simple cease to exist.


Will they be replaced by others? They surely will, but they will be insecure, low paid, low skilled service jobs like deliveroo driver or barista. Making coffee for software developers.



The comparisons to the industrial revolution are inapt, because the industrial revolution also came with a population explosion, which meant that for every job lost due to a machine another was created building houses or something else that required for a growing population.


The only way automation doesn't result in unemployment or underemployment is if population growth and thus demand outpaces the increases to production efficiency. Not only is that unlikely to occur, even if it did it would be environmentally unsustainable.

boring accountant

gozunda wrote: »

I'd agree regarding the world population. The thing is though that due to advancements in agricultural efficiency and advancement - there has never been so much food produced for so many. Currently there is no world food shortage. Most issues regarding food distribution is down to corruption and poor governance..

https://www.worldhunger.org/letter-food-shortage-world-questions/

The problem is not global food shortages is it food insecurity. Food scarcity as a result of ecological damage tends to be regional in its effects. So although we may have enough food in the world to feed everyone 10 times over the problem is getting it to every corner of the globe at all times. That's not easy to do when entire regions are being decimated by climate change.

boring accountant

boring accountant wrote: »

The problem is not global food shortages is it food insecurity. Food scarcity as a result of ecological damage tends to be regional in its effects. So although we may have enough food in the world to feed everyone 10 times over the problem is getting it to every corner of the globe at all times. That's not easy to do when entire regions are being decimated by climate change.

Agreed. China is currently importing a large degree of it's food needs. Not simply what's needed for excess consumerism but actual food demands for healthy living. Industrialization and corruption led to huge areas of traditionally food producing regions to be rendered unsuitable, along with water sources being contaminated. The over-usage of those areas for food production wearing away the land without effective crop-rotation or sensible land preservation techniques. Common in the west but less common in the east. You can see similar things happening in many African countries where the need for profit over-rides the need for sensible farming. Short term gains rather than preservation for the future.

As such, many Chinese farmers have turned to chemicals for crop growth, or hormones to force animals to grow to larger sizes to meet the demands. Little concern for the long-term effects either to the environment or how such chemicals/hormones will affect the people who eat it.

It's also extremely difficult to know what food comes from where or even to be assured that the beef you're buying is actually beef or some other kind of animal. Beef is often replaced by horse meat here, but a growth of artificial meat has happened over the last few years, which means the meat you're eating mightn't even be meat, at all.

Boggles

Wibbs wrote: »

There is a point where I truly wish I could wish about 30 IQ points away,

Can an IQ be a negative number?

weldoninhio

Donald Trump wrote: »

Perhaps Dubai don't give asylum status? If she was from Syria and couldn't go back there she is entitled to try to claim asylum somewhere. Maybe she couldn't claim in in UAE, and even though the father had a job there that status was only ever going to temporary and at the whim of the UAE

So why did the parents, both engineers, apply for a critical skills visa in Ireland. Engineers qualify for them. They wouldn't have had to go into DP in that case. It doesn't add up.

weldoninhio

Wibbs wrote: »

Leaving aside the all too obvious asylum seeker good news story aspect, I say fair play to her. As for her qualifications, if they were even slightly under suspicion it would come out and not look good at all. So yes, fair play to her.

That it appears her family had to leave the UAE is no shock to me. With the exception of Jordan and Turkey the other Arab states have either done nothing, or feck all about this crisis, or openly denied entry to genuine refugees fleeing Syria and essentially aimed them at the sucker that is the EU. Of course when they're here(or more likely larger numbers from Pakistan et al), totalitarian kips like Saudi Arabia are happy to send millions to support the building of mosques...

I've no issue with genuine Syrian refugee families getting a leg up, so long as it's done right, not dropping a load of them in some out of the way part of Ireland with feck all facilities without discussions with the local Irish people who actually live there. On the other hand those coming from places like Georgia, Pakistan, or sub Saharan Africa can bugger right off. Throw them out with prejudice. No keeping them in centres on our taxes. Fail to pass the refugee test, fcuk off out of it. Spend the money that would house them for their extended appeals in shipping them home.

The father was happy enough to stay and continue working. You seem to have left that out.

Wibbs

Donald Trump wrote: »

On an overall basis, the people who are smart enough to become lawyers or accountants (boring or otherwise) will probably adapt better to changes, due to automation and technology, compared your average person who got an average Leaving and just went labouring or doing casual jobs afterward

Mass unemployment due to technology has been forecast as imminent ever since the days of the Luddites smashing up looms.

A fair proportion of the graduates coming out of university are going into roles today that people would not have dreamed would exist 25 years ago.

The way technology is developing compared to any time in the past is the difference. In the past technology replaced muscle, today it's increasingly replacing brains. Yes new jobs will come along on the back of it, but they will be more and more specialised, requiring longer education. Take the law for example. In the US there's already been a drop off of paralegal and other jobs because of AI. Finance is similar. The Trading floor of the US stock exchange is now mostly a TV studio set. The type of job under threat is hard enough to predict. EG it's easier to replace doctors with AI than nurses. The other thing is by definition most people are "average", with a small number at the extremes of dumb and clever. The clever will generally be fine, the dumb are screwed and many average people won't do much better. It's far easier to support a smaller population of people.

Again, when we're discussing Ireland it's a moot point, our population is growing, it has the highest birth rate in Europe and is above replacement levels, so this excuse/explanation/requirement for importing "multiculturalism" does not apply. But as I've said this notion has been so promoted for so long that even when the clear black and white evidence is presented so many still believe it and find it hard not to. If we were German I could see some reasoning behind it, but being Irish it starts to look at best like applying the same spiel here without thinking about it, or at worst propaganda.

weldoninhio

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Nice story.

At the end of the day Irish women are not having enough babies to replace our current population.

Hence we have zero choice but to accept big immigration.

It's good to get the positive stories out there.

Most immigrants to Ireland are hard working and contributing massively to the country.

I've asked this before and no one can seem to answer it. It is almost impossible for an Irish couple to get a mortgage and have 3/4/5/6 kids as childcare, cost of living etc is so expensive and both parents would need to be working to afford it. So how are these people who come in under "big immigration" going to afford it??

ohnonotgmail

Wibbs wrote: »

The way technology is developing compared to any time in the past is the difference. In the past technology replaced muscle, today it's increasingly replacing brains. Yes new jobs will come along on the back of it, but they will be more and more specialised, requiring longer education. Take the law for example. In the US there's already been a drop off of paralegal and other jobs because of AI. Finance is similar. The Trading floor of the US stock exchange is now mostly a TV studio set. The type of job under threat is hard enough to predict. EG it's easier to replace doctors with AI than nurses. The other thing is by definition most people are "average", with a small number at the extremes of dumb and clever. The clever will generally be fine, the dumb are screwed and many average people won't do much better. It's far easier to support a smaller population of people.

Again, when we're discussing Ireland it's a moot point, our population is growing, it has the highest birth rate in Europe and is above replacement levels, so this excuse/explanation/requirement for importing "multiculturalism" does not apply. But as I've said this notion has been so promoted for so long that even when the clear black and white evidence is presented so many still believe it and find it hard not to. If we were German I could see some reasoning behind it, but being Irish it starts to look at best like applying the same spiel here without thinking about it, or at worst propaganda.

We do have the highest birth rate in the EU. Depsite this we are still below replacement level. and the fertility rate in ireland is dropping.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/irelands-fertility-rate-one-of-highest-in-eu-910812.html

Wibbs

Boggles wrote: »

Can an IQ be a negative number?

I'll leave that to others that are better placed to answer that.

weldoninhio wrote: »

The father was happy enough to stay and continue working. You seem to have left that out.

Oh certainly W, these are not the usual huddled masses of Syrians stuck in Jordanian camps. They had far more choices and chose to come here. Really my point was that the UAE(or the majority of ME nations) is not a welcoming place for migrant families. They wouldn't have made it through the border without their qualifications and staying there and raising a family would have been significantly harder than coming here. Getting citizenship? Good luck.

They're outliers among the Syrian crisis refugees. Without being Syrian refugees chances are high that if they had applied to move here for employment they'd have gotten in.

weldoninhio

Wibbs wrote: »

I'll leave that to others that are better placed to answer that.

Oh certainly W, these are not the usual huddled masses of Syrians stuck in Jordanian camps. They had far more choices and chose to come here. Really my point was that the UAE(or the majority of ME nations) is not a welcoming place for migrant families. They wouldn't have made it through the border without their qualifications and staying there and raising a family would have been significantly harder than coming here. Getting citizenship? Good luck.

They're outliers among the Syrian crisis refugees. Without being Syrian refugees chances are high that if they had applied to move here for employment they'd have gotten in.

But my point is that they are both engineers, which would qualify them for Critical Skills Visa's from Ireland. Why not apply for these and they wouldn't have had to go into Direct Provision, which the young girl described as the worst time in her life.

Wibbs

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

We do have the highest birth rate in the EU. Depsite this we are still below replacement level. and the fertility rate in ireland is dropping.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/irelands-fertility-rate-one-of-highest-in-eu-910812.html

And yet the Irish population remains on an upward growth pattern and has done since the 1970s. So colour me suspicious on how these stats are being utilised.



Future predictions are for the population to continue to rise until 2031 when it is predicted to be just over five million.[3]

Never mind that again I don't see why we need to import hundreds of thousands of non natives and the demonstrable problems that come with that in every single other European country that has such populations.

Roversfan1

SchrodingersCat wrote: »

I don't know of anyone else that would describe it as "fine". The prime minister has described it as a "national emergency". They have had to raise taxes to cope with the increase in health care costs for the older population. They have passed laws to allow for easier immigration to cope with the worst labour shortage in decades.

Japan's decline has been particularly sharp and long lasting. Couple that with decades of deflation. Ireland is not approaching a "national emergency" in population decline. Nor is any European country. Not even close.

Maybe you should visit Japan and stop listening to the same news that is reporting these stories to you.

Japan is a safe well organised country.

Tell me about their homeless rate and crime stats.

Clowns that measure everything in GDP have no clue

Roversfan1

weldoninhio wrote: »

I've asked this before and no one can seem to answer it. It is almost impossible for an Irish couple to get a mortgage and have 3/4/5/6 kids as childcare, cost of living etc is so expensive and both parents would need to be working to afford it. So how are these people who come in under "big immigration" going to afford it??

They are gonna afford it the same way that "most" women in Ireland today having big families afford it.

CalamariFritti

It's hard to be a liberal these days.
Breaking our backs with all the effort of suppressing bad news like the ongoing mass rapes now we may also have to suppress good news so that the right whingers aren't triggered by the obvious spin.