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Dublin Marathon moves to lottery entries!

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  • Registered Users Posts: 335 ✭✭solidasarock


    They have a separate championship entry for club runners in London and another entry system for club runners. Fact is, this is the national marathon champs, so club runners, no matter what their ability should be guaranteed entry, if this isn't the case then AI need to move the championship to an alternate race.

    https://www.virginmoneylondonmarathon.com/en-gb/how-to-enter/british-athletics-club-entry/

    https://www.virginmoneylondonmarathon.com/en-gb/how-to-enter/championship-entry/

    This is such a glaring gap that I wonder if Athletics Ireland even knew this was coming.

    Everyone from the DCM side seem very unsure of themselves today. Not a lot of detail coming which isnt a great look considering I guess the lottery opens in 2 days.

    I expect a whole lot of runners entering via their club and via the public lottery now too.

    I would almost guess this change wasn't known outside the top brass until recently and the day to day organizers just told to make it work within the last few weeks.


  • Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 1,105 ✭✭✭Limpy


    Any one have any stats that would show a team scorer not having a good for age time. BQ Chicago cut offs etc.

    For instance Mary from ABC ac was 4th scorer in a time of 3:30 but her good for age time is 3:20.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,807 ✭✭✭skyblue46



    I expect a whole lot of runners entering via their club and via the public lottery now too.

    Again the question is as the whether gaining entry by ballot would entitle you to entry in the Nationals or not.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,807 ✭✭✭skyblue46


    Limpy wrote: »
    Any one have any stats that would show a team scorer not having a good for age time. BQ Chicago cut offs etc.

    For instance Mary from ABC ac was 4th scorer in a time of 3:30 but her good for age time is 3:20.

    In 2018 Mens over 50 bronze winning team from East Down AC all finished with times outside London GFA for 50-54 male. Two had 3:17 and one 3:19. London GFA 3:15

    If those GFA applied this year they might not have been able to defend their medals. Of 22 teams only the first two had 3 counting times under London GFA.

    I think it's more an issue on the male side of things as the female GFA are quite generous in relation to medal winning performances.

    However the National Championships is not just about winning, it's having the right to take part. Again as an example in the M40 team event the top 40 teams would have been unaffected by GFA but the remaining 260 teams would mostly have had problems.


  • Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 1,105 ✭✭✭Limpy


    skyblue46 wrote: »
    In 2018 Mens over 50 bronze winning team from East Down AC all finished with times outside London GFA for 50-54 male. Two had 3:17 and one 3:19. London GFA 3:15

    If those GFA applied this year they might not have been able to defend their medals.

    I think it's more an issue on the male side of things as the female GFA are quite generous in relation to medal winning performances.

    However the National Championships is not just about winning, it's having the right to take part. Again as an example in the M40 team event the top 40 teams would have been unaffected by GFA but the remaining 260 teams would mostly have had problems.

    Some clubs struggle with getting teams, and this won't help in anyway.

    Imagine telling your kid or grandchildren you won a national medal but can't defend is as your not fast enough.

    On the other hand if the cut offs were soft for all, and people knew if they were in a club they would get in it might improve club number's?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,807 ✭✭✭skyblue46


    Limpy wrote: »
    Some clubs struggle with getting teams, and this won't help in anyway.

    Imagine telling your kid or grandchildren you won a national medal but can't defend is as your not fast enough.

    On the other hand if the cut offs were soft for all, and people knew if they were in a club they would get in it might improve club number's?

    It would be terrible in that scenario. But there are many more possible scenarios. I have no idea what this years times are yet but just to base it on 2018... 9:54 or thereabouts won a team bronze in M50. In my club we now have a 2:52 from last week. I have a 3:16 from last year and a friend has a 3:29. We could presently plan a go at getting a National Medal ( for one second ignore the fact that there are many others in the club of a similar ability). Using GFA London from last year would leave 2 of us ineligible.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,449 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    Limpy wrote: »
    Any one have any stats that would show a team scorer not having a good for age time. BQ Chicago cut offs etc.

    For instance Mary from ABC ac was 4th scorer in a time of 3:30 but her good for age time is 3:20.

    How can we do this when the GFA Times have not been announced? :confused:

    Comparing to GFAs for other races is pointless, as those times are based on demand for the particular event.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 20,365 Mod ✭✭✭✭RacoonQueen


    ooter wrote: »
    I agree but if you are irish and not in a club and have a GFA time you should be guaranteed entry for dublin

    Yep, if they are going down this route, a GFA entry should be available for Irish residents who are non-club runners.
    They would still have quite a sizeable 'ballot' entry outside of that, they could even ballot off more of these during the summer if club runners/GFA didn't take up all entries kept aside for them.
    Murph_D wrote: »
    How can we do this when the GFA Times have not been announced? :confused:

    Comparing to GFAs for other races is pointless, as those times are based on demand for the particular event.

    They really should have been announcing GFA times now, or at least very soon so people have time to go out and run them in Spring for an April entry system.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,449 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    They really should have been announcing GFA times now, or at least very soon so people have time to go out and run them in Spring for an April entry system.

    Agree - or at least before ballot opens so club runners have an idea of whether to enter the lottery or not, as Skyblue mentioned above.


  • Registered Users Posts: 908 ✭✭✭Vinnie222


    Yep, if they are going down this route, a GFA entry should be available for Irish residents who are non-club runners.
    They would still have quite a sizeable 'ballot' entry outside of that, they could even ballot off more of these during the summer if club runners/GFA didn't take up all entries kept aside for them.



    They really should have been announcing GFA times now, or at least very soon so people have time to go out and run them in Spring for an April entry system.

    Good for age. Men Qualifying standard
    Age 18-34 sub 3:00
    Age 35-39 sub 3:02:30
    Age 40-44 sub 3:05
    Age 45-49 sub 3:10
    Age 50-54 sub 3:15
    Age 55-59 sub 3:20
    Age 60-64 sub 3:45
    Age 65-69 sub 4:00
    Age 70-74 sub 5:00
    Age 75-79 sub 5:15
    Age 80+ sub 5:30
    Women Qualifying standard
    Age 18-34 sub 3:45
    Age 35-39 sub 3:47:30
    Age 40-44 sub 3:50
    Age 45-49 sub 3:53
    Age 50-54 sub 4:00
    Age 55-59 sub 4:05
    Age 60-64 sub 4:30
    Age 65-69 sub 5:00
    Age 70-74 sub 6:00
    Age 75-79 sub 6:20
    Age 80+ sub 6:40

    For Dublin


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,807 ✭✭✭skyblue46


    Murph_D wrote: »
    How can we do this when the GFA Times have not been announced? :confused:

    Comparing to GFAs for other races is pointless, as those times are based on demand for the particular event.

    I'm bored and indulging in a hypothetical discussion based on KSU saying that GFA might be similar to London/Boston etc...please allow me this little indulgence ;-)


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,807 ✭✭✭skyblue46


    Vinnie222 wrote: »
    Good for age. Men Qualifying standard
    Age 18-34 sub 3:00
    Age 35-39 sub 3:02:30
    Age 40-44 sub 3:05
    Age 45-49 sub 3:10
    Age 50-54 sub 3:15
    Age 55-59 sub 3:20
    Age 60-64 sub 3:45
    Age 65-69 sub 4:00
    Age 70-74 sub 5:00
    Age 75-79 sub 5:15
    Age 80+ sub 5:30
    Women Qualifying standard
    Age 18-34 sub 3:45
    Age 35-39 sub 3:47:30
    Age 40-44 sub 3:50
    Age 45-49 sub 3:53
    Age 50-54 sub 4:00
    Age 55-59 sub 4:05
    Age 60-64 sub 4:30
    Age 65-69 sub 5:00
    Age 70-74 sub 6:00
    Age 75-79 sub 6:20
    Age 80+ sub 6:40

    For Dublin

    For real???

    That's half of Boards gone!!! Lottery here we come!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,449 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    skyblue46 wrote: »
    I'm bored and indulging in a hypothetical discussion based on KSU saying that GFA might be similar to London/Boston etc...please allow me this little indulgence ;-)

    But Boston GFA is much easier than London. So is Chicago. NY a little easier, Berlin and Tokyo much harder. It’s not an even playing field! ;)


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,807 ✭✭✭skyblue46


    Murph_D wrote: »
    But Boston GFA is much easier than London. So is Chicago. NY a little easier, Berlin and Tokyo much harder. It’s not an even playing field! ;)

    Well if Vinnie above is right it will be a quite small Nationals in the Masters categories for men. I wonder will a lottery entry allow you to count for the club.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 610 ✭✭✭kerrylad1


    Vinnie222 wrote: »
    Good for age. Men Qualifying standard
    Age 18-34 sub 3:00
    Age 35-39 sub 3:02:30
    Age 40-44 sub 3:05
    Age 45-49 sub 3:10
    Age 50-54 sub 3:15
    Age 55-59 sub 3:20
    Age 60-64 sub 3:45
    Age 65-69 sub 4:00
    Age 70-74 sub 5:00
    Age 75-79 sub 5:15
    Age 80+ sub 5:30
    Women Qualifying standard
    Age 18-34 sub 3:45
    Age 35-39 sub 3:47:30
    Age 40-44 sub 3:50
    Age 45-49 sub 3:53
    Age 50-54 sub 4:00
    Age 55-59 sub 4:05
    Age 60-64 sub 4:30
    Age 65-69 sub 5:00
    Age 70-74 sub 6:00
    Age 75-79 sub 6:20
    Age 80+ sub 6:40

    For Dublin
    If that is the GFA times,I will be in the over 45 category,with a sub 3,from Sunday,Does this mean sweet feckall,since I am not in a club?


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,449 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    skyblue46 wrote: »
    For real???

    That's half of Boards gone!!! Lottery here we come!!

    Those are the London times. Makes no sense to base National champs on those. For a start, we don’t have that many categories in the championships, even if the times made any sense.


  • Registered Users Posts: 908 ✭✭✭Vinnie222


    Murph_D wrote: »
    Those are the London times. Makes no sense to base National champs on those. For a start, we don’t have that many categories in the championships, even if the times made any sense.

    Club was emailed them earlier.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,807 ✭✭✭skyblue46


    kerrylad1 wrote: »
    If that is the GFA times,I will be in the over 45 category,with a sub 3,from yesterday.Does this mean sweet feckall,since I am not in a club?

    It seems the only entry for non club runners is via ballot...


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,449 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    kerrylad1 wrote: »
    If that is the GFA times,I will be in the over 45 category,with a sub 3,from Sunday,Does this mean sweet feckall,since I am not in a club?

    You have to be in a club to enter the championships.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,807 ✭✭✭skyblue46


    Murph_D wrote: »
    Those are the London times. Makes no sense to base National champs on those. For a start, we don’t have that many categories in the championships, even if the times made any sense.

    If those are true it's not fair to have DCM as a national championship any more. It rules out too many in my opinion.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,449 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    Vinnie222 wrote: »
    Club was emailed them earlier.

    Well they make no sense. They’ll have to abolish the masters teams because many clubs won’t be able to make up a team at all.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,807 ✭✭✭skyblue46


    Murph_D wrote: »
    Well they make no sense. They’ll have to abolish the masters teams because many clubs won’t be able to make up a team at all.

    It is nuts if true!! It would decimate entries.


  • Registered Users Posts: 908 ✭✭✭Vinnie222


    Murph_D wrote: »
    Well they make no sense. They’ll have to abolish the masters teams because many clubs won’t be able to make up a team at all.

    There will be 2 lottos.... Further to the recent announcement by KBC Dublin Marathon there are some points to note for AAI athletes.

    · Athletes can enter the KBC Dublin marathon lottery system from November the 1st to register their interest in the 2020 marathon.

    · A SMS will be sent to you the week of January 3rd if you have been accepted into the 2020 KBC Dublin Marathon. Prior to this date you must be registered with Athletics Ireland for the 2020 calendar.

    In addition to the lottery system opening on the 1st of November. KBC Dublin Marathon will also have an exclusive AAI member lottery in April. To enter this lottery AAI members must have reached a good of age standard (see attached) in a previous recognised marathon. All athletes registered members of their club to enter the AAI members lottery.

    1st part of the email.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,807 ✭✭✭skyblue46


    Hopefully part 2 has some good news...


  • Registered Users Posts: 362 ✭✭nannerby


    So the aai members are still in a lottery and not garuanteed entry?


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,807 ✭✭✭skyblue46


    nannerby wrote: »
    So the aai members are still in a lottery and not garuanteed entry?

    They are with those times!!

    I notice there is no reference to it being the Nationals...


  • Registered Users Posts: 908 ✭✭✭Vinnie222


    skyblue46 wrote: »
    Hopefully part 2 has some good news...

    Part 2 was the Good for age post

    The way I look at it is that if you are not successful in the 1st lottery and have ran the Good for age time ran you probably be guaranteed an entry in the 2nd lottery.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,449 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    nannerby wrote: »
    So the aai members are still in a lottery and not garuanteed entry?

    If Vinnie’s email turns out to be true, it means club members with London GFAs will be guarantee entry if unsuccessful in the lottery. That’s how I’d interpret it anyway. It doesn’t look like an official release however, from the somewhat confusing language.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,807 ✭✭✭skyblue46


    Vinnie222 wrote: »
    Part 2 was the Good for age post

    The way I look at it is that if you are not successful in the 1st lottery and have ran the Good for age time you probably be guaranteed an entry in the 2nd lottery.

    But...but...but...the times! If DCM is still the Nationals it's now an elitist event.

    Another question, not specific to Dublin. In following many sports I regularly see a figure of 10/11% accepted as an approximate difference between the sexes. Why do GFA not reflect this?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,807 ✭✭✭skyblue46


    Murph_D wrote: »
    If Vinnie’s email turns out to be true, it means club members with London GFAs will be guarantee entry if unsuccessful in the lottery. That’s how I’d interpret it anyway. It doesn’t look like an official release however, from the somewhat confusing language.

    I admire your calm. Haha. I have no intention of running it but still find myself getting upset.


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