39 people found dead in trailer in UK

contrary_devil

My view on this debate of paramilitary involvement in this horrendous case is that it sullys the cause of whichever side of the fence they are supposedly linked to. I think the people involved in this are pure criminals out to enrich themselves with no care whatsoever for whoever gets hurt in the process, at least someone that is involved in paramilitary operations is fighting for a cause and that has long gone out the window with a lot of those people from the time they figured out they could use their thuggish behaviour for personal gain.
So whether they are Catholic or Protestant, republican or loyalist, Irish or British these boyos are scumbags no if's, but's or and's.

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

It would be inappropriate to post hearsay, and local rumour, etc on this board.
I am challenging the rush on the board to blame ‘dup-link’.
I am not too far away (location wise)from some of the alleged players and they certainly are not loyalist.
The alleged driver is from the unionist community but is completely at odds with all the other alleged players background and in some cases shady connections.
All the talk of cogs and wheels. If you had a clock that was completely made of steel, bar one we copper wheel, would you say it was a steel clock or a copper clock. I am confident this is a steel clock we are talking about. And therefore a tad disingenuous to try and link it to the unionist community, and it really is irrelevant
But to be clear every single person involved in this incident and trafficking in general needs the full wait of the law

'It would be inappropriate to post hearsay....blah blah... but I'm gonna post it anyway.' Nauseating.

Why don't you open a thread on it downcow because you seem more interested that 'your-un's' are not involved than the victims here.

PokeHerKing

downcow wrote: »

i am absolutely not defending him or belittling what he done. If found guilty then he is a disgusting human being who clearly knew exactly what he was doing. That can all be true and he can still be a small cog in a much bigger wheel.

Aye a poor wee prodestant cog in a big bad Republican wheel. I reckon this will lead all the way back to Rome and the Pope!

You're probably the most pathetic poster on this site, at least own your prejudices.

McMurphy

contrary_devil wrote: »

My view on this debate of paramilitary involvement in this horrendous case is that it sullys the cause of whichever side of the fence they are supposedly linked to. I think the people involved in this are pure criminals out to enrich themselves with no care whatsoever for whoever gets hurt in the process, at least someone that is involved in paramilitary operations is fighting for a cause and that has long gone out the window with a lot of those people from the time they figured out they could use their thuggish behaviour for personal gain.
So whether they are Catholic or Protestant, republican or loyalist, Irish or British these boyos are scumbags no if's, but's or and's.

This message is getting lost in the rush to try and blame one side over the other, i will be very surprised if there's paramilitary involvement from either side of the divide, these lads were out for themselves, not "for Ireland" nor "god and Ulster".

Plus if Mo Robinson had paramilitary links, he is a shining example of the kind of wing nut you wouldn't want in your organisation.

From Facebook his whole life seems to be an open book, doesn't seem very good at keeping a low profile, and blending into his surroundings.

volchitsa

downcow wrote: »

It would be inappropriate to post hearsay, and local rumour, etc on this board.
I am challenging the rush on the board to blame ‘dup-link’.
I am not too far away (location wise)from some of the alleged players and they certainly are not loyalist.
The alleged driver is from the unionist community but is completely at odds with all the other alleged players background and in some cases shady connections.
All the talk of cogs and wheels. If you had a clock that was completely made of steel, bar one we copper wheel, would you say it was a steel clock or a copper clock. I am confident this is a steel clock we are talking about. And therefore a tad disingenuous to try and link it to the unionist community, and it really is irrelevant
But to be clear every single person involved in this incident and trafficking in general needs the full wait of the law

But you did exactly that when you said shady republican links were becoming visible.

The rest of your post is trying to do much the same thing (steel clocks FFS) while pretending to hold the moral high ground at the same time.

contrary_devil

It seems that the Essex case wasn't a one off,
https://www.thesun.ie/news/4730480/irish-trafficking-gang-probe-dutch-cops/?utm_medium=Social&utm_campaign=irishsunfacebook&utm_source=Facebook#Echobox=1572770667

FrancieBrady

contrary_devil wrote: »

It seems that the Essex case wasn't a one off,
https://www.thesun.ie/news/4730480/irish-trafficking-gang-probe-dutch-cops/?utm_medium=Social&utm_campaign=irishsunfacebook&utm_source=Facebook#Echobox=1572770667

A bit of advice from the vantage point of years of experience - if rags like the SUN or the Indo use terms like, 'sources say', treat with extreme caution until covered by a more reputable adult newspaper where actual 'journalists' work.

tipptom

downcow wrote: »

It would be inappropriate to post hearsay, and local rumour, etc on this board.
I am challenging the rush on the board to blame ‘dup-link’.
I am not too far away (location wise)from some of the alleged players and they certainly are not loyalist.
The alleged driver is from the unionist community but is completely at odds with all the other alleged players background and in some cases shady connections.
All the talk of cogs and wheels. If you had a clock that was completely made of steel, bar one we copper wheel, would you say it was a steel clock or a copper clock. I am confident this is a steel clock we are talking about. And therefore a tad disingenuous to try and link it to the unionist community, and it really is irrelevant
But to be clear every single person involved in this incident and trafficking in general needs the full wait of the law

Yet you say you will eat your bowler hat if there's loyalists involvement?
Is that confidence based on hearsay or is it because you are a lot closer to these gangs than you try to portray yourself on here that would make you so sure of this.

Actually it would be quite ironic if loyalist gangs were involved with smuggling non nationals to the UK because they are well known in NI for for intimidating and burning non nationals out of their homes in their areas in NI.

volchitsa

tipptom wrote: »

Yet you say you will eat your bowler hat if there's loyalists involvement?
Is that confidence based on hearsay or is it because you are a lot closer to these gangs than you try to portray yourself on here that would make you so sure of this.

Actually it would be quite ironic if loyalist gangs were involved with smuggling non nationals to the UK because they are well known in NI for for intimidating and burning non nationals out of their homes in their areas in NI.

Yup, excellent question. I've asked Downcow a couple of times now what makes him so sure that there is no loyalist involvement but that there may be "shady republican" links, and I don't think he's really explained yet.

Your suggestion would of course explain how he can be so sure of it.

Loafing Oaf

If the Hughes brothers were the prime movers, or among the prime movers, behind this plot, I would find it astonishing if guys from that background were collaborating with loyalist groups in any systematic way, irrespective of whether they had any active republican involvement themselves. I couldn't see them returning to the Monaghan/Armagh area if that were the case.

downcow

tipptom wrote: »

Yet you say you will eat your bowler hat if there's loyalists involvement?
Is that confidence based on hearsay or is it because you are a lot closer to these gangs than you try to portray yourself on here that would make you so sure of this.

Actually it would be quite ironic if loyalist gangs were involved with smuggling non nationals to the UK because they are well known in NI for for intimidating and burning non nationals out of their homes in their areas in NI.

I am a little reticent to even reply to this nonsense. I didn’t start this. I watched post after post imply that unionists were somehow closer to this incident because one 25yearold involved had grew up in the unionist community. They even tried to link the dup. Now nobody accused those posters of being in the dup etc.
I certainly have no links or inside track on any paramilitary goings on either loyalist or republican. But I live 15 mins from one of the arrests. Any steer I have at the min is from catholic friends who are not shy in saying who they think are pulling the strings. There have been an interesting number of arrests of long distance lorry drivers in this area over last few days. No suggestion that they have had anything to do with people trafficking (drugs is what they are being held on), timing may be no more than coincidence. I know it’s sad but when you grow up here you are taught very young who to avoid for their ra connections. I guess catholic’s know who to avoid on prod side.
So I think we should just wait and see if individuals in the next generation have the same connections as their parents.
Time will tell

tipptom

downcow wrote: »

I am a little reticent to even reply to this nonsense. I didn’t start this. I watched post after post imply that unionists were somehow closer to this incident because one 25yearold involved had grew up in the unionist community. They even tried to link the dup. Now nobody accused those posters of being in the dup etc.
I certainly have no links or inside track on any paramilitary goings on either loyalist or republican. But I live 15 mins from one of the arrests. Any steer I have at the min is from catholic friends who are not shy in saying who they think are pulling the strings. There have been an interesting number of arrests of long distance lorry drivers in this area over last few days. No suggestion that they have had anything to do with people trafficking (drugs is what they are being held on), timing may be no more than coincidence. I know it’s sad but when you grow up here you are taught very young who to avoid for their ra connections. I guess catholic’s know who to avoid on prod side.
So I think we should just wait and see if individuals in the next generation have the same connections as their parents.
Time will tell

I don't blame people eventually being pis$$d off with this scumbag or small cog as you refer to him being constantly referred to as Irish all over the British media when he is as anti Irish as you can get with his posing with flegs and burning the Irish national flag.

Nobody wants to claim these pond life be they Irish/British,republican or Loyalists.

Stheno

Garda have told the 22 year old in Cloverhill that TV here is a credible threat to his life

Odelay

Stheno wrote: »

Garcia have told the 22 year old in Cloverhill that TV here is a credible threat to his life

What like warning him that watching Faircity and similar could bore him to death???

Collie D

And what does some Mexican lad have to do with all of this?

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

I am a little reticent to even reply to this nonsense. I didn’t start this. I watched post after post imply that unionists were somehow closer to this incident because one 25yearold involved had grew up in the unionist community. They even tried to link the dup. Now nobody accused those posters of being in the dup etc.
I certainly have no links or inside track on any paramilitary goings on either loyalist or republican. But I live 15 mins from one of the arrests. Any steer I have at the min is from catholic friends who are not shy in saying who they think are pulling the strings. There have been an interesting number of arrests of long distance lorry drivers in this area over last few days. No suggestion that they have had anything to do with people trafficking (drugs is what they are being held on), timing may be no more than coincidence. I know it’s sad but when you grow up here you are taught very young who to avoid for their ra connections. I guess catholic’s know who to avoid on prod side.
So I think we should just wait and see if individuals in the next generation have the same connections as their parents.
Time will tell

So basically what you are saying is that you and your 'catholic friends' are allowed to speculate but nobody else is?

biko

I wonder how many traffickers tell themselves they do it for humanitarian reasons, while they rake in 10 grand per smuggled person...

CrabRevolution

"Nobody should be speculating and blaming, but *posts several paragraphs of conjucture and anecdotes blaming republicans*"

McMurphy

Stheno wrote: »

Garda have told the 22 year old in Cloverhill that TV here is a credible threat to his life

That must be why some of them get PlayStation's in their cells these days too, to take their mind of all the repeats and drivel on RTE?

TheRepentent

tipptom wrote: »

Actually it would be quite ironic if loyalist gangs were involved with smuggling non nationals to the UK

and don't forget their connections to Combat 18 and other xenophobic groups.

downcow

TheRepentent wrote: »

and don't forget their connections to Combat 18 and other xenophobic groups.

Guys let go of it. Your hatred for unionists is unbelievable. It’s not relevant on this thread. Maybe you should open a thread dedicated to maligning us.

TheRepentent

downcow wrote: »

. Maybe you should open a thread dedicated to maligning us.

History does that for you not us:rolleyes:

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Guys let go of it. Your hatred for unionists is unbelievable. It’s not relevant on this thread. Maybe you should open a thread dedicated to maligning us.

Where is the hatred for 'Unionists'?

Larsso30

Stheno wrote: »

Garda have told the 22 year old in Cloverhill that TV here is a credible threat to his life

To silence him I wonder?

recedite

biko wrote: »

I wonder how many traffickers tell themselves they do it for humanitarian reasons, while they rake in 10 grand per smuggled person...

They would probably think "Why not make a few quid, while doing the migrants a favour" (until it all goes wrong)
But as with any illegal trade, the blame lies partly with those paying for the illegal service, and partly with those providing it. There are no innocents.

downcow

recedite wrote: »

They would probably think "Why not make a few quid, while doing the migrants a favour" (until it all goes wrong)
But as with any illegal trade, the blame lies partly with those paying for the illegal service, and partly with those providing it. There are no innocents.

I completely disagree. I see zero blame lying with the migrants. They are simply looking for opportunity
They are the definition of innocents in this case

Quantum Erasure

recedite wrote: »

But as with any illegal trade, the blame lies partly with those paying for the illegal service, and partly with those providing it. There are no innocents.

you wouldn't be advocating blaming the victims now, would you, father?

Mules

I think it's a normal thing for people to look for a better life, maybe ambitious people in particular. Imo the world is so unequal that the payoff of getting to a high income country will always be worth the risk for a lot of people. The answer may be to fix world inequality but I haven't a clue how that could be done.

NIMAN

Mules wrote: »

I think it's a normal thing for people to look for a better life, maybe ambitious people in particular. Imo the world is so unequal that the payoff of getting to a high income country will always be worth the risk for a lot of people. The answer may be to fix world inequality but I haven't a clue how that could be done.

The fact is unfortunately that the vast majority of migrants like these would end up in sh1tty, crap paying jobs or even worse, in grow-houses or prostitution, rather than in high paying jobs.

They are being sold a lie.

Mules

NIMAN wrote: »

The fact is unfortunately that the vast majority of migrants like these would end up in sh1tty, crap paying jobs or even worse, in grow-houses or prostitution, rather than in high paying jobs.

They are being sold a lie.

Are they though? That obviously happens but I'd say it's more common for them to make a lot of money to send home. Even well below the minimum wage here is worth a lot in countries like Vietnam. I think if people usually ended up in horrible situations word would get back and the people smugglers would have no customers. The fact that the smugglers reimbursed the families of the deceased indicates that they are focused on being seen as trustworthy to do business with.

I read an article about an area in Vietnam where a lot of the people who died came from. There's a lot of families there that have become very rich because of sons and daughters going to Europe. According to the article other people there see them with cars and big houses and want the same thing. It seems to be one of these things that's more complicated/ nuanced that it appears at first glance. I'm not excusing the traffickers though, I think they're scumbags.