Foundation (Apple) [** SPOILERS **]

pixelburp

Episode 2 I really enjoyed: even the Gail and Salvor was kinda compelling, both characters not quite as annoying as before. The Foundation stuff was intriguing and I dug the idea of branding Harry's entire philosophy as cod mysticism, the divergence already seen in how Foundation runs itself.

And of course, as always the high point was everything around Empire; all the little world building moments, the characters dancing around each other in that vein of court intrigue. All good stuff. Also like how impossibly far into the future we must already be, that the "old fashioned way" of Empires lineage itself lasted for millennia.

The show also looks so good at times; the rural planet was a bit stagey but damn the FX work in this has been quite stellar in places. I wonder if there's more Ireland based production this time again?

corkie

https://foundation.fandom.com/wiki/King_and_Commoner

Getting more far fetched.

And the twist at the end, takes it even further away from the source story.

VinLieger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120907407#Comment_120907407

The **** was that ending.....

Spoiler Warning

IMO the non vault Harry is a robot now and im wondering if Kalle is also a robot and instead of Demerzel that Kalle is R.Daneel Olivaw, the isolation fits with how Daneel lives through the empires fall.

Man episode 2 looked bloody cheap. Sets, lighting, and cinematography all looked absolutely like cheap sci fi

nachouser

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120907407#Comment_120907407

At least we'll be spared acts of Heliconian Twisting every 10 minutes.

corkie

"If you ride a greti, you find you can't get off; for then it will eat you."

FutureGuy

Don't mind me, just being in Episode 1.

fritzelly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120910037#Comment_120910037

You really made that scene

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120910037#Comment_120910037

Oh wow that's awesome, fair play. How was the experience? Tell more!

nachouser

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120910037#Comment_120910037

Sweet - that's a more interesting story than the whole thread. Go for it!

Slydice

2.3: Oh but the space special effects on this show are just so good! Still guessing a big battle is coming up too. Has to be!

Spoiler Warning

What this Hober Mallow is leading to.. haven't a clue.

That 20th fleet though! What could take on such a massive armada. Maybe they'll do something like what happened in Russia recently though. Mad if that plays out in a similar way.

Feels like 3 Haris possibly on the go now. Foundation 1 (original, melded with ship), Foundation 2 (clone) and Oona's World (digital)

VinLieger

The way they have set up Bel Riose new back story and the way the trantor politics and mistrust are developing im guessing they might come quite close to following the resolution from the books for this crisis.

pixelburp

Episode 3 & the usual comments apply: Empire plotline, good! Gaal plotline, rubbish!

However, a challenger appears: Poly! I'm immediately down for this guy's energy; a "rough around the edges" priest who doesn't take any shít. Always appreciate those kind of characters who have seen too much to put up with airs & graces anymore. Even his assistant had a nice mix of sass and deference. I'd like to see more of them.

Not even gonna touch the ending 'til I get more context. I presume Harry is

Spoiler Warning

Now a robot?

Drumpot

I may be a bit lost on the Harri, Gaal, savor story and I feel like I might sort of understand things but would appreciate any clarification . Maybe I’m not paying attention enough and forgot some of sesson one. The following are spoilers for anybody who isn’t up to date so don’t read on.

The box is really confusing me. So this is like a holographic machine that holds all harries memories etc and can project him (like rimmer in red dwarf). It’s also an app (of sorts) that shows his map of when catastrophes will happen, like instructions for on what to do when. But only Gaal can open it and Savor the box in foundation planet? Seems odd to give the instructions for your plan to two people, which would suggest that harri knew the future so knew that his messangers would not die.

It’s not clear that it tells the future , but it looks like it has some way of predicting things. When Gaal/Savor interact , it’s like an update to the app and it can factor in the whatever knowledge is shared.

And somebody , like a witch , has used the memory box to respawn harri. Is that about right? If sim harri knows what’s gonna happen he’s pretending not to , possibly to not influence Gaal/Savor (who may act differently if they know harri has future answers, maybe they have to learn this for themselves?)

Gaal can see into future , so it’s possible she can see things before they happen, but it looked like she was nearly interacting in the future. So if Salvor can see into the past, is there a chance she can also interact and actually give harri (and/or the cube) the foresight of predictions? It seems like Hari knows empire will fall, not thinks, but knows. Maybe that’s just factoring in that all empires do eventually fall, but given the past/future powers of Gaal/Savor it could be that he actually knows that he will fall and that they need to influence certain events (which is effectively what the cube harri is doing, bringing them on to fulfill their destiny roles?

This would make sense to me as I have no clue how hologram harri and the box are so intuitively able to figure out the next step. Even when it’s in pergatory for decades, it seems like it can get straight up to speed easily

And then we have empire who is clearly staring to diverge from “the plan” which seemed to be all about continuity and being predictable. But day wants to get married. Could the terrorists who poisoned the genes in S1 of succeeded?

Also , the empire didn’t give a f**k about foundation while it was small and possibly even gone. But once it starts making waves, like an opponent invading smaller planets but building itself, empire is starting to show interest and send this exiled general to check things out.

The machine that killed warden jaeggar fount (Holt), is that basically a more advanced version of the box and killing your man was an overly dramatic way to get the followers to find the lad it wanted? So it’s kind of like there is a trip switch on the machine , there’s a defensive mechanism that keeps people away until salvor sort of turns that off. Then it becomes sort of a shrine until it needs to do stuff and take foundation to another level or through a crisis?

Am I kind of right? I feel like there’s stuff I’m missing?

I love this show but there’s times when I’m wondering if I’m not following.

VinLieger

Well episode 4 is just a filler episode with literally no forward progression of any storylines.

corkie

https://foundation.fandom.com/wiki/Where_the_Stars_Are_Scattered_Thinly

@VinLieger Well episode 4 is just a filler episode

Agreed just moving characters around and getting them in place for future episodes.

Nothing about Gaal, Salvor and Hari as a lifeform (/Robot?)! So have to wait till next week.

ixoy

Interesting that season one of this show (and likely season 2) cost $45 million and looks like they spent it well. Whereas 'Secret Invasion ' cost multiples of that and didn't look half as good. Shows how budgets can be managed efficiently.

pixelburp

I dunno, I liked Episode 4 'cos it gave all the main characters who aren't either Gaal or Empire a chance to be fleshed out; sometimes it's nice to stop and just assess where everyone is for a while. Certainly I walked away with a better understanding of folks

Damien360

If they had this just about Empire, I would be delighted. Love the interplay between the 3 and their "guests" and staff. Really struggling with the Harry arc of the story, especially when he turns up. He may be central to the Foundation but his story is too loose and his acting is iffy.

Shoog

Disappointed. Dialogue and plot a bit cheesy. First season was better.

Slydice

2.4: Something about the way this episode ended and I was thinking it had me feeling it was in the middle of an epic tale. Good work! 🙂

Let no being presume upon my mercy!

So... hmmm..

Spoiler Warning

The war is going to happen, it needs to delay a bit, there's a mechanism to replace the religion, something to me felt a bit AI in the future, maybe that's something to lead a fight against empire, though maybe it gets out of control and that's the visions Gaal was having.

hmmmm.. who knows 🙂

Enjoying this show

Slydice

2.5: Oh! I like these!

Spoiler Warning

Mentalists she called herself/themselves I think. Reminded me a little of what I remember of the Babylon 5 psychics. Though that kind of deep voice thing felt new. A bit like Dune voice. Though I'm not sure if she was being controlling with it.

Kinda now that vision of the future is a bit in the air. Since perceptions can be changed by this lot.

Hmmmmmm...

Anyway.. Empire and Dominion becoming clearer now. Looks like there'll be something of a red wedding type of thing happening on Trantor.

Oh and shoutout for the still most excellent set designs and practical and computer effects. The hard scifi feel in this episode was strong. There was one scene where Jared Harris was washing his face and I was just delighted the set around him felt so solid scifi.

corkie

https://foundation.fandom.com/wiki/The_Sighted_and_the_Seen

Spoiler Warning

https://asimov.fandom.com/wiki/Mentalics not Mentalists

^^^ @Slydice

Looks like they are going to have difficulties setting up the 'Second Foundation'?

Drumpot

I love when you forget to watch the show and see this thread and realise “I have 2 episodes pending” for this and Star Trek new worlds

pixelburp

Yeah not so sure about Episode 5; just something didn't click for me. Though the suggestion maybe the other Cleons could be a source of strife is intriguing, alongside yet another mystery thrown in the pile.

So did that episode confirm Dominion's family and

Spoiler Warning

That Empire had them killed, or was that known already? Seemed a very throwaway line to have that admitted.

Damien360

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120974107#Comment_120974107

Your spoiler has been mentioned by the women a few times. That's why they are there. Day just confirmed it.

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120974133#Comment_120974133

Just shows how little I've been paying attention, apparently!

(Though I will make a limp excuse that this show sometimes indulges that modern habit of mumbled dialogue and a more natural soundmix to down play the vocals' clarity.)

Shoog

Episode 5 of season two was the first episode in this season where everything seem to gell and come together. Less sense of cheese and forced dialogue. God it took its time though.

corkie

@Slydice

Mentalists

^^ Max Maven (above), Derren Brown ~~ https://www.vanishingincmagic.com/mentalism/articles/top-famous-mentalists/

Mentalics

^^ Wanda Sheldon (above) and 'The Mule'.

In the novels Wanda was Hari's granddaughter.

Hari comes to realise that Salvor is essentially his granddaughter since she is Raych's child.

Slydice

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120965022#Comment_120965022

Cool, thanks. I think I was rushing and didn't go back to check the spelling. It's there in the subtitles as you have it.

I'd be half guessing that they'd be really useful to a second foundation. I don't think I've noticed that kind of power in the show before so it feels rare and feels like it could tip a balance in confrontations.