Foundation (Apple) [** SPOILERS **]

corkie

@fritzelly Confirmed by David S Goyer in the show notes: -

Spoiler Warning

For the benefit of spelling things out; the Gaal/Salvor storyline takes place about two weeks prior to the other storylines. So the moment Salvor communicates with Dr. Seldon in 208 actually syncs up with the moment the Vault incinerated Warden Fount in 202. Hope that made sense!

https://www.davidsgoyer.com/episode-notes-208-the-last-empress/

Note these notes can contain spoilers and discuss difference in the show compared to books, like details about Hari's wife.

silverharp

I watched episode 1 of S02 , and its not gripping me, I read Foundation when I was 15 or 16 and it was probably my favourite series of books as a teenager but just not getting anything from this

VinLieger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121083540#Comment_121083540

Yeah do not expect anything close to the books, they immediately veer wildly off from them.

pixelburp

We should just declare a pact, lol: this show is NOT the books, we'll just forget it's technically an adaptation; it's making lip service regarding certain plot points or characters, but has veered into an alternate universe, broadly doing its own thing.

TBH from what I've read of the novels - for some bizarre reason Asimov remains a big hole of the Pillars of SciFi I haven't read - I can't see how you would adapt the thing without it being cripplingly dull, or prohibitively expensive by dint of its anthological nature.

And this is speaking as someone who has had big problems with the TV show, just on its own merits. Gail & Salvor are almost unbarely irritating characters, and I am so very, very verrrry sick of Chosen One, Monomyth bullshít plots. Forget time-travelling to kill Hitler: at this stage, I might just take out Joseph Campbell instead.

silverharp

I dont even remember the books very well, I couldnt recall a decent summary now, just that it was gripping, Im just not gripped by whatever this is

corkie

https://foundation.fandom.com/wiki/Long_Ago%2C_Not_Far_Away

Roxann Dawson (B'Elanna Torres) directed this episode and previous episode.

This was billed on reddit as the ultimate Demerzel episode, they could have revealed more about her.

https://www.davidsgoyer.com/episode-notes-209-long-ago-not-far-away/

pixelburp

Episode 8 was good stuff: it's a touch Harry Potter but I have always loved the shifting "chroma", those huge painted murals with the moving paint. There's so much in this show's world that are subtle little moments of science magic; it's never overdone, but always a neat little flourish.

Liked the way Hobor Mallow's very presence was explained, all so the Left Hand could use his thumb on the scales, lol. He was a bit annoying at first, still is to be honest, but Mallow is a fun chaotic-good character all the same.

As to the Demerzel thing, a very intriguing little ending that has me wanting more - aka a good cliffhanger that other shows could learn to do (oh hi, Ahsoka).

Still more than a little ticked off about Harry's fate;

Spoiler Warning

All that mystery and eyebrow waggling over his resurrection, just to bump him off at the hands of Chief Hippy Lady? It's a bit shíte and still hoping there was some misdirection going on.

Slydice

2.9: 😯

Wow, I'm just like debating in my head if foundation squeezed a season or a movie into a single episode.

So much happened and yet they carried it off so seamlessly. Brilliant stuff!

Jared Harris, what a great pressence he brings to all his scenes!

Spoiler Warning

I.. I guess he's still alive then .. 😲 .. like some fake death pill/tech .. or maybe another secret clone.. or.. shur look.. it's foundation, they can do what they like, they seem to keep it on the level.

This future mind reader does come across as a real threat feeling type. All for season 3 I'm guessing at this point.

Next episode is the season finale. Definitely wanting a season 3. This stuff is so high quality and fresh.

pixelburp

The way Jared Harris, as he got older, has come to resemble his father so much, has been kinda spooky at times.

corkie

@Slydice It is not a spoiler to mention 'The Mule'?

"Right at the beginning of episode 1 of the Apple TV+ adaptation of Isaac Asimov’s sci-fi classic Foundation, an opening voiceover from mathematician and Hari Seldon protégé Gaal Dornick (Lou Llobell) mentions several characters and places that will appear in the story that’s about to be told. One of them, mentioned almost matter-of-factly by Dornick, is a name Foundation fans are sure to know: The Mule."

^^ https://www.denofgeek.com/tv/foundation-where-is-the-mule/

We also see him in the flash forward in episode 2 this season, which I thought was too early to introduce him.

https://www.slashfilm.com/1331121/foundation-showrunner-david-s-goyer-exclusive-interview/

Above interview from July before the season started. Interesting take from it was

Having said that, I love to set up rules and then say, "How can we break them?" Or, "How can we seem to break them?" And so psychohistory famously can't predict an individual, but I said to the writers' room in season 2 — I don't think this gives too much away — that the Vault is going to name a specific person, that a specific person's name is going to be engraved upon the Vault, which seems to completely contravene the rules of how the Vault and psychohistory works. And I think part of the fun is seeing how that happened over the course of the season, and hopefully that unfolds in a very surprising way.

They handled that in a surprised way with Gaal and Salvor story happening with a 2 week delay.

The other take from the Interview was about plans for Season 3.

corkie

Foundation Season 2 Episode 9 Deep Dive W/Showrunner David S. Goyer ~ Pete Peppers

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkPM3NBxB7A

This popped up on my youtube stream, interesting interview.

Goyer has an exit plan for season 4 & 6, If they don't get 8.

Looking forward to the final tomorrow.

https://screenrant.com/foundation-season-3-renewal-release-date-cast-story-everything-we-know/

Rumor is production started in May, but had to stop in July because of strikes, we are probably looking at 26 release for it.

fritzelly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121111379#Comment_121111379

2026 Ahhh ffs

VinLieger

There were some fantastic singular scenes in the finale but the larger story is for me just utter trash and incredibly lazy scifi writing. They just keep adding magical technology to solve or fix whatever major storybeat just happened which reduces or negates completely the magnitude of whatever occurred in each prior episode.

corkie

https://foundation.fandom.com/wiki/Creation_Myths

https://www.davidsgoyer.com/episode-notes-210-creation-myths/

@VinLieger ... adding magical technology to solve or fix whatever major storybeat ...

Yes some puzzling twists in the final.

Spoiler Warning

Dr Sheldon and The Vault The Tardis

nachouser

The last words of Day: "Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal!"

corkie

Foundation Season 2 Ending Discussion w/ Showrunner David S. Goyer ~ Pete Peppers

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwqftbRhCSE

Have yet to watch this video, having dinner first.

For people who have read the Trilogy, this link has the books summarized by ChatGPT, probably wouldn't make sense to people who haven't?

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121111379#Comment_121111379

2026? Strikes notwithstanding, that's an insane time between seasons. It'll kill interest and enthusiasm stone dead if there's that long between seasons 2 and 3.

Nody

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121119305#Comment_121119305

I only listened 30s and it already got things wrong (Gaal was not there to interview Seldon; he was a fellow scientist coming there because he had been offered a job by Seldon). One minute in and once again it got the summary wrong, Gaal knows of the predicted history of the empire as Seldon showed it to him... Sorry but I'd not trust the summary but I'm not going to spend 11 min listening to something getting even the most basic parts wrong.

Agent Coulson

 Jared Harris is just a fantastic actor and a joy to watch on screen.

corkie

@Nody I only listened 30s and it already got things wrong

I assume your referring to ChatGPT summary?

Spoiler Warning

Seldon is the subject of a biography by Gaal Dornick. ~~ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hari_Seldon

The best existing authority we have for the details of his life is the biography written by Gaal Dormick who, as a young man, met Seldon two years before the great mathematician's death. ~~ https://asimov.fandom.com/wiki/Hari_Seldon

The summary goes on about his job with Hari.

Edit: - Sorry, I hadn't listened to the 10 minute version, the half hour for Book 1 is better.

Spoilers used for book discussion as requested by a mod earlier in the thread.

Slydice

So, that's season two! Enjoyed that! For my non-booker-reader perspective, this show is such a solid, refreshing scifi.

It's doing some really cool weaving of big, medium and small stories with lots of cool ideas, special effects and action while trying to keep it all simple enough to follow.

2.10: This was a well done wrap up, wind down of the season and setup for season three.

Spoiler Warning

I did like them getting their terminator 2, no fate, moment figured out. Show might feel a bit odd without Salvor now.

Demerzel killing Dusk and yer wan off-screen. Leaves so much to the imagination! 😯 Though I guess she probably minimised pain.

The fleet being destroyed and the freeing of the navigators felt only a small surprise as I felt it was flagged up enough

The switcheroo for the emporer was setup fine earlier in the season with Hober doing it before.

The Hope name for constant .. oh I liked that.. even if it wasn't her name. Some feeling even if just a fleeting moment.

Big Romeo/Juliet vibes of seeing yer man, Glawen, still alive with the foundation after general, Riose, died. I imagine that could be built on later.

Speaking of vibes, I was feeling a bit reminded of Beneath the Planet of the Apes at the end scenes on the second foundation.

I was thrown a bit at the start with the recap feeling of how Gaal saved Hari. Felt like they had to trade-off that story to fit the season. That was fine for me.

The 152 year jump at the end. Well, certainly feels like they are playing the season three story cards close to their chest.

That's good for me though, I've felt they've done really well from not having read the books.

Future: Yeah, looking forward to season three. Only really going with what I see on the wiki page for it:

The third season began filming in late May 2023 in Prague.[29] Filming was halted on July 14, 2023, due to the 2023 Hollywood labor disputes.[30]

I imagine season three will be

Spoiler Warning

Where the first foundation re-establishes itself / what it does about empire.

How the empire rebuilds / what it does about foundation.

Demerzel and how the empire corrupted AI adopts/adapts to psychohistory now that it is paying attention.

The girl in the second foundation, the blonde one, I'm guessing with the focus on her, she'll have done some sort of leading and setting up of the second foundation in the future.

Fleshing out this new baddie from the future. Not sure whether I'm placing him as something of an X-Men level Bishop or Cable or Apocalypse level character. Somewhere in between I guess.

So much possiblity.

Oh, and I must say, Ben Daniels as Bel Riose totally felt a big like Daniel Craig this season. Could easily see them acting in a film as brothers / family relative if they wanted.

pixelburp

Episode 9 and woof, wasn't expecting that card to be played; a pretty catastrophic response and decision made, while Demerzel's sad little "Welp, I tried" was a darkly funny moment as the hammers were falling. And you can see why, clearly the wheels are about to fly off for Empire and the big twit can't see it

And aha..

Spoiler Warning

So Harry was alive all this time, somehow, and never laid a hand to help the other two? Hmmm hope they are least try to explain that one without it being a bit of writing by convenience.

emo72

Feels like I'll have to wait 152 years for the next season of this.

corkie

A reading of the novels popped up on my youtube feed today.

Books narrated by Jack Fox, here is the playlist. And contain chapter links in description.

@Nody as I'm posting, your other comment that ChatGPT got it wrong by Gaal not knowing? :-

Spoiler Warning

First of all him as author of the biography gets mentioned at the very start.

Gaal arrives on Trantor, and is met by Hari in Hotel room, where they discuss Psychohistory and the Fall.

He is detained and questioned the following morning, and denies knowing anything about it, but it is revealed that, they overheard his talk the previous night, and he then admits to it. (Can see where ChatGPT gets it wrong here).

^^^ Spoiler used for book discussion.

Nody

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121135932#Comment_121135932

Yes; that's exactly what's in the book but the ChatGPT did not have the same idea in it's summary if you look at 1:10 of that summary.

Brief_Lives

only 9 episodes in Season 2?

fritzelly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121146376#Comment_121146376

Theres 10

pixelburp

Episode 10 finished and ... Yeah not sure what to make of that. A bit annoying that having teased this new status quo and the fates of some main characters, we ...

Spoiler Warning

whiplash forward again, 150 years where presumably all the non Empire cast are now dead. A shame cos folks like Polly and Constant were good additions and would have liked to see how they get on.

Hopefully with the writers strike looking to be finished, the union getting what it wanted, production on this can start again and we won't actually be looking at 2026 til Season 3.

Shoog

Right to the end the script has been a bit clunky and the plotting a bit forced. It's been enjoyable but it's not great SIFI.

Damien360

Episode 9 was the standout for me. Episode 10 just missed something. Interesting series but overall forgettable for me.