Do you consider nationalists from Northern Ireland to be Irish?

13-10-2019 4:11pm

Ironicname wrote: »

Cheers. Just googled it. Still seems like you are talking out of your arse.

HOSTILE !

And you're wrong.

Ironicname · 13-10-2019 4:12pm

Deleted User wrote:

Google is your friend. BTW, best to understand what you're arguing against before countering

Oh and btw... The thread starts with "do you consider..." so my points are as valid as yours (although you are much better at being condescending and you know lots and lots about flags)

Hmmm, this condescending stuff is easy enough

Ironicname · 13-10-2019 4:13pm

Deleted User wrote:

HOSTILE !

Not even a bit. I just said it seems. I'm sure you are probably right.

13-10-2019 4:15pm

Ironicname wrote: »

Hmmm, this condescending stuff is easy enough

It's great craic altogether.

Mad_maxx · 13-10-2019 4:16pm

I view nationalists - Republicans as Irish

I view unionists as British

I am strongly in favour of a united Ireland

13-10-2019 4:17pm

Mad_maxx wrote: »

I view nationalists - Republicans as Irish

I view unionists as British

I am strongly in favour of a united Ireland

What about unionists that consider themselves Irish?

Rodin · 13-10-2019 4:18pm

The constitution allows those in the North to claim Irish nationality... and as the constitution is decided by the people....

Sleeper12 · 13-10-2019 4:25pm

Rodin wrote:

The constitution allows those in the North to claim Irish nationality... and as the constitution is decided by the people....

That's it in a nutshell.

Ironicname · 13-10-2019 4:43pm

Mad_maxx wrote:

I am strongly in favour of a united Ireland

I don't want the trouble it would bring to be honest. I don't see any benefit for anybody

downcow · 13-10-2019 5:02pm

Hope this is relevant. But at yesterdays Irish rugby game there were two flags held beside team. The Irish tricolour (flag of ROI) and the yellow ulster flag (flag of one province).
I want to be positive about this but i find it hard not to be further offended by it. I hope the IRFU were trying to include unionists (but obviously without asking them).
This team represents two countries and up to now only the flag of one is tolerated. For some reason this was changed.

Here is what is really interesting for me as a northern unionist.

I was fairly disgusted/disappointed by the flying of the flag of one province and one country, but i surprised myself as i realised how trans-formative it would be if the IRFU carried the flags of the two countries. As someone who can give no allegiance to the team currently, I would be routing for it if it gave this gesture to my community/country. What do you think. Would that be acceptable to you guys? Two flags ROI and NI

Ironicname · 13-10-2019 5:06pm

downcow wrote:

I was fairly disgusted/disappointed by the flying of the flag of one province and one country, but i surprised myself as i realised how trans-formative it would be if the IRFU carried the flags of the two countries. As someone who can give no allegiance to the team currently, I would be routing for it if it gave this gesture to my community/country. What do you think. Would that be acceptable to you guys? Two flags ROI and NI

I agree. There should be two separate flags for two separate countries

Sleeper12 · 13-10-2019 5:10pm

downcow wrote:

I was fairly disgusted/disappointed by the flying of the flag of one province and one country, but i surprised myself as i realised how trans-formative it would be if the IRFU carried the flags of the two countries. As someone who can give no allegiance to the team currently, I would be routing for it if it gave this gesture to my community/country. What do you think. Would that be acceptable to you guys? Two flags ROI and NI

The more inclusive the better imo.

Donnielighto · 13-10-2019 5:29pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I missed that, apologies.

A country is separate to a nation. Many in NI do not wish to be part of the UK, but were born on the island of Ireland and have as much right as anybody on the island of Ireland to consider themselves Irish.

In the same way Canadians and Mexicans are Americans.

Ironicname · 13-10-2019 5:30pm

Donnielighto wrote:

In the same way Canadians and Mexicans are Americans.

But not Hawaiians

Donnielighto · 13-10-2019 5:33pm

Rodin wrote: »

The constitution allows those in the North to claim Irish nationality... and as the constitution is decided by the people....

They are Irish if they claim it but not automatically?

What do we mean when we say Irish here, what are the parameters of a demonym?

riffmongous · 13-10-2019 5:34pm

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I agree but I said I wouldn't engage with Chinese Whospers as we were going around in circles and I'm sure it isn't good reading. He is totally incorrect to say that it isn't an official term. It is the term /name used worldwide including in Irish schools. It has been the of name for 600 years as you say.

No it's not, Folens stopped using it in their atlas years ago and the Irish government is clear it's not an official term

However, Minister for Foreign Affairs Dermot Ahern has ruled that the term is not used by the Government and is without any official status.

It was made clear by him that the term is not recognised in any legal or inter-governmental sense.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/folens-to-wipe-british-isles-off-the-map-in-new-atlas-1.1009971?mode=amp

bazza1 · 13-10-2019 5:35pm

Not our jurisdiction....UK folk! Those who want to be, or consider themselves to be Irish, can apply for a Republic of Ireland passport and they would be most welcome, IMHO

Ironicname · 13-10-2019 5:37pm

riffmongous wrote:

No it's not, Folens stopped using it in their atlas years ago

Case closed

Donnielighto · 13-10-2019 5:40pm

Just a thought on this, island of Ireland, Irish, then that means there is no demonym for the ROI specifically.

Donnielighto · 13-10-2019 5:42pm

bazza1 wrote: »

Not our jurisdiction....UK folk! Those who want to be, or consider themselves to be Irish, can apply for a Republic of Ireland passport and they would be most welcome, IMHO

Were there Irish people between 1800-1900

13-10-2019 5:42pm

downcow wrote: »

Hope this is relevant. But at yesterdays Irish rugby game there were two flags held beside team. The Irish tricolour (flag of ROI) and the yellow ulster flag (flag of one province).
I want to be positive about this but i find it hard not to be further offended by it. I hope the IRFU were trying to include unionists (but obviously without asking them).
This team represents two countries and up to now only the flag of one is tolerated. For some reason this was changed.

Here is what is really interesting for me as a northern unionist.

I was fairly disgusted/disappointed by the flying of the flag of one province and one country, but i surprised myself as i realised how trans-formative it would be if the IRFU carried the flags of the two countries. As someone who can give no allegiance to the team currently, I would be routing for it if it gave this gesture to my community/country. What do you think. Would that be acceptable to you guys? Two flags ROI and NI

Fantastic, but what flag would that be?

Donnielighto · 13-10-2019 5:44pm

downcow wrote: »

Hope this is relevant. But at yesterdays Irish rugby game there were two flags held beside team. The Irish tricolour (flag of ROI) and the yellow ulster flag (flag of one province).
I want to be positive about this but i find it hard not to be further offended by it. I hope the IRFU were trying to include unionists (but obviously without asking them).
This team represents two countries and up to now only the flag of one is tolerated. For some reason this was changed.

Here is what is really interesting for me as a northern unionist.

I was fairly disgusted/disappointed by the flying of the flag of one province and one country, but i surprised myself as i realised how trans-formative it would be if the IRFU carried the flags of the two countries. As someone who can give no allegiance to the team currently, I would be routing for it if it gave this gesture to my community/country. What do you think. Would that be acceptable to you guys? Two flags ROI and NI

The fact they refused to play the anthem when having a game in ravenhill in recent years indicated the irfu don't want to know about this.

The agreement was Phil's coulter's abominations at all games and local national anthem for home games, observed in the republic but not in the north for some reason.

Sleeper12 · 13-10-2019 5:50pm

Donnielighto wrote:

They are Irish if they claim it but not automatically?

We no longer have a constitutional claim on the north. We voted to remove it as part of the Belfast agreement /Good Friday Agreement. Our constitution now recognises the right of people living in the North to be Irish or British. In fact they can be both! Or they can choose one if they only identify with one.

Sleeper12 · 13-10-2019 5:53pm

riffmongous wrote:

No it's not, Folens stopped using it in their atlas years ago and the Irish government is clear it's not an official term

They removed it in 2007 but it is still taught in school in Ireland.

The fact that it was in department of education approved books means it was an official term.

What is the official term now then? All I hear Irish government saying is these islands of ours.

Ironicname · 13-10-2019 5:54pm

Deleted User wrote:

Fantastic, but what flag would that be?

Fleg

Donnielighto · 13-10-2019 5:54pm

Sleeper12 wrote: »

We no longer have a constitutional claim on the north. We voted to remove it as part of the Belfast agreement /Good Friday Agreement. Our constitution now recognises the right of people living in the North to be Irish or British. In fact they can be both! Or they can choose one if they only identify with one.

You cut out the second part of the post and so your response doesn't deal with what I was asking, they are both pertinent.

Sleeper12 · 13-10-2019 5:58pm

Ironicname wrote:

Case closed

I said hours ago that they stopped using it in 2007. My point is that it was in department of education approved books up until 2007. Despite what the government might claim, they recognised this term as the official term until 2007 at least. It was in books approved by the government to teach our children about the British Isles.

To this day there is no government directive stopping teachers from using the offending term.

13-10-2019 5:58pm

Sleeper12 wrote: »

The fact that it was in department of education approved books means it was an official term.

All I hear Irish government saying is these islands of ours.

And you knew what they meant. And it was an official term. You can add it to the list of

Hibernia
Zaire
Burma
ceylon
Stalingrad
Constantinople

And many many more.

Mad_maxx · 13-10-2019 5:58pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Mad_maxx wrote: »

I view nationalists - Republicans as Irish

I view unionists as British

I am strongly in favour of a united Ireland

What about unionists that consider themselves Irish?

They use the "im Irish" handle in a different context, a geographical description at best

Mad_maxx · 13-10-2019 6:00pm

Ironicname wrote: »

Mad_maxx wrote:

I am strongly in favour of a united Ireland

I don't want the trouble it would bring to be honest. I don't see any benefit for anybody

We don't have a choice not to buy it, it's happening, it will also likely involve a multi decade effort to put down a loyalist terror campaign

Do you consider nationalists from Northern Ireland to be Irish?

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