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Do you consider nationalists from Northern Ireland to be Irish?

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    #182
    Skihunta13
    Registered Users Posts: 161 ✭✭Skihunta13


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    The diagonal red cross. It represents St. Patrick. Wales isn't represented.

    Yeah looks like England have more respect for the Republic and Scotland. NI and Wales dont get a look in at all.


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    #183
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    alastair wrote: »
    The Ulster banner is an official flag - but only in existence since the 50’s.

    Ulster =/= Northern Ireland. Pretty sure you know that. And I don't think many in Cavan, Monaghan or Donegal would consider themselves Northern Irish.


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    #184
    Skihunta13
    Registered Users Posts: 161 ✭✭Skihunta13


    alastair wrote: »
    They can identify as culturally British citizens of the U.K. The flag most unionists would have identified with would have been the union flag - for obvious reasons, but the Ulster banner certainly gained popularity for a recent invention.

    Yeah seem like unionist are pleading their allegiance to a Britain that does not want them.


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    #185
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Skihunta13 wrote: »
    Yeah looks like England have more respect for the Republic and Scotland. NI and Wales dont get a look in at all.

    To be fair. The Irish Saltaire represented All of Ireland - they just didn't change it when the Free state (now Ireland) left, it just represents NI now.


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    #186
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Skihunta13 wrote: »
    Yeah looks like England have more respect for the Republic and Scotland. NI and Wales dont get a look in at all.

    The St Patrick saltire is the NI look in, just as it was the Irish look in when the union extended to the whole island.


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    #187
    Ironicname
    Registered Users Posts: 1,177 ✭✭✭Ironicname


    Skihunta13 wrote:
    So does England and Scotland yet they are represented on the union jack. What ties unionist to the union jack.

    History.


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    #188
    Skihunta13
    Registered Users Posts: 161 ✭✭Skihunta13


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    To be fair. The Irish Saltaire represented All of Ireland - they just didn't change it when the Free state (now Ireland) left, it just represents NI now.

    It is the flag of Saint Patrick that is on the Union Jack.
    I dont recall Arlene Foster,Nigel Dodds, ian Pasley etc leading too many parades on March17th.


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    #189
    Ironicname
    Registered Users Posts: 1,177 ✭✭✭Ironicname


    alastair wrote:
    The Ulster banner is an official flag - but only in existence since the 50’s.

    I'm only in existence since the 80s.


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    #190
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Ironicname wrote: »
    I'm only in existence since the 80s.

    Is that the flag you were referring to as an official flag for the Northern Irish?

    Can you not see the problem with it as such?


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    #191
    Ironicname
    Registered Users Posts: 1,177 ✭✭✭Ironicname


    I was unaware the Ulster banner was not the official flag of ni.

    Every day's a school day.

    Anyway, this talk about flags is dragging it a bit off topic.

    Does being born in a different country make you not be from the country you want the from?

    There is no United Ireland but people who want a United Ireland in the north refuse to believe there isn't one and want to be recognised as Irish.

    They are Northern Irish.

    Sure, they can get Irish or British passports, but so what? My daughter is eligible for an American passport. She's from Dublin. She isn't American.


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    #192
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Ulster =/= Northern Ireland. Pretty sure you know that. And I don't think many in Cavan, Monaghan or Donegal would consider themselves Northern Irish.

    It was never designed to represent anyone from Cavan, Monaghan or Donegal.


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    #193
    Ironicname
    Registered Users Posts: 1,177 ✭✭✭Ironicname


    Deleted User wrote:
    Can you not see the problem with it as such?

    I don't really see flags as a problem. I'm mad like that.


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    #194
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Ironicname wrote: »
    I don't really see flags as a problem. I'm mad like that.

    Sorry Ironicanme - I thought you posted the below. :rolleyes:
    Ironicname wrote: »
    They have their own flag. They are Northern Irish.


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    #195
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    alastair wrote: »
    It was never designed to represent anyone from Cavan, Monaghan or Donegal.

    It cannot be an official Ulster flag then. Who recognises it as a 6 county Ulster flag?


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    #196
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Skihunta13 wrote: »
    It is the flag of Saint Patrick that is on the Union Jack.
    I dont recall Arlene Foster,Nigel Dodds, ian Pasley etc leading too many parades on March17th.

    St Patrick is just as big a deal in Irish Protestantism as he is in Irish Catholicism. But the parades are an invention of the Catholic Irish-Americans, and obviously hold less appeal to the unionist tradition.


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    #197
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Deleted User wrote: »
    It cannot be an official Ulster flag then. Who recognises it as a 6 county Ulster flag?

    You asked about a Northern Irish flag. That was/is it - depending on whether you want an official one, or a post-Stormont unofficial sectarian one.


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    #198
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    alastair wrote: »
    You asked about a Northern Irish flag. That was/is it - depending on whether you want an official one, or a post-Stormont unofficial sectarian one.

    This has gone beyond circles at this stage.

    Iroinicname said there was a NI Flag. You said the Ulster flag was official. But, now you're saying it's not official for the purpose Ironicname was referencing it for.

    *sigh*


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    #199
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Deleted User wrote: »
    This has gone beyond circles at this stage.

    Iroinicname said there was a NI Flag. You said the Ulster flag was official. But, now you're saying it's not official for the purpose Ironicname was referencing it for.

    *sigh*

    It was official. It stopped being official when direct rule was instituted. Since the GFA, and self governance, the issue of flags has been kept away with ten foot poles.


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    #200
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    You should really watch the Shoulder To Shoulder documentary if you don't understand this. NI people believe they are Irish, Northern Irish and British apparently. What the rest of us think doesn't really matter.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzbBcluUvv4

    I couldn't find a better version.


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    #201
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    alastair wrote: »
    It was official.

    So, why did you post in reference to Ironicname when he said there is a flag for Northern Irish, and you said "The Ulster banner is an official flag - but only in existence since the 50’s." That's present tense.


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    #202
    Castlekeeper
    Registered Users Posts: 1,661 ✭✭✭Castlekeeper


    Sleeper12 wrote: »
    quote=alastair]The British Isles isn’t an official term either.

    It is actually. Its been in use since the 1500s.
    Deleted User wrote:
    Why do the islands of Ireland and the UK need to be grouped together? Answer that and you'll learn a lot about yourself.

    Do we not have the Aran Islands? It is normal to group islands like this from a geography point of view. They are grouped together for geography terms. Ireland & the UK were part of the same country /land mass at one stage. Its important to group them together when teaching geography.

    There is no need to group them together for any other reason apart from geography.

    Castlekeeper wrote:
    Where does pomme du terre fit in all of that? Calling it a potato doesn't make it thus. Just because some British agency decided the term sounded well and suited their sense of colonial entitlement doesn't give it any legitimacy. It's use is aggressive and possessive and is not to be tolerated. See previous example of Malvinas/ Falklands.

    Again, the term is from the 1500s and relates to the geography of the two countries. Many posters refuse to see the difference between Great Britain and the British Isles. This is the same nonsense as someone saying that they are sick to the stomach when they see a UK flag in Ireland yet haven't a problem with a US flag in Ireland.

    We are a Republic. We won & England lost. A hundred years later can we not move on?[/quote]
    What are you bringing flags, Great Britain and England up for? Nonsense indeed. But as your on it there are plenty of Union Jacks flying in this country without fear of desecration, the US never oppressed the Irish, Great Britain is so designated to differentiate from Brittany, any reference to wider territories of Britishness should have extended southwards towards Northern France rather than westwards towards Ireland, but there was probably too big an army there for such lip to be tolerated.
    The only reference to Geography in the term is the word "islands".


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    #203
    Ironicname
    Registered Users Posts: 1,177 ✭✭✭Ironicname


    Deleted User wrote:
    Iroinicname said there was a NI Flag. You said the Ulster flag was official. But, now you're saying it's not official for the purpose Ironicname was referencing it for.

    I admitted I was wrong. I thought it was. No big deal. It's ok to be wrong sometimes. Anyway, It's a flag at the end of the day.

    Northern ireland, regardless of some cloth, is a separate country to the Republic of Ireland. I wouldn't consider people from Northern Ireland to be from the same country as me for the express reason that they aren't.

    It's commonly regarded that when people reference Ireland, they are talking about the Republic. Northern Ireland is commonly referred to as Northern Ireland.

    It's be like me saying I'm off to dakota. North and South are different places.

    Whatever flag they like or feel represents them is of no consequence to me.


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    #204
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Deleted User wrote: »
    So, why did you post in reference to Ironicname when he said there is a flag for Northern Irish, and you said "The Ulster banner is an official flag - but only in existence since the 50’s." That's present tense.

    Because it’s still the only NI flag in existence. It’s official status was derived from the governance of NI, which was curtailed by direct rule. The new government, even when not dormant, are not going to be rushing to try and introduce a new flag, given the animosity surrounding the whole issue. Is it an officially sanctioned flag? Yes it is. Is it the only flag specifically designed to represent NI? Yes it was.


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    #205
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Ironicname wrote: »
    I admitted I was wrong. I thought it was. No big deal. It's ok to be wrong sometimes.

    I missed that, apologies.
    Ironicname wrote: »

    Northern ireland, regardless of some cloth, is a separate country to the Republic of Ireland. I wouldn't consider people from Northern Ireland to be from the same country as me for the express reason that they aren't.

    A country is separate to a nation. Many in NI do not wish to be part of the UK, but were born on the island of Ireland and have as much right as anybody on the island of Ireland to consider themselves Irish.


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    #206
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users Posts: 16,881 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    Castlekeeper wrote:
    It is actually. Its been in use since the 1500s.


    I agree but I said I wouldn't engage with Chinese Whospers as we were going around in circles and I'm sure it isn't good reading. He is totally incorrect to say that it isn't an official term. It is the term /name used worldwide including in Irish schools. It has been the of name for 600 years as you say.


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    #207
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Sleeper12 wrote: »
    I agree but I said I wouldn't engage with Chinese Whospers as we were going around in circles and I'm sure it isn't good reading. He is totally incorrect to say that it isn't an official term. It is the term /name used worldwide including in Irish schools. It has been the of name for 600 years as you say.

    Again - that makes the term archaic, but not official.

    Castlekeeper wasn’t agreeing with you btw - your quote was screwy so that is your own claim.


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    #208
    Castlekeeper
    Registered Users Posts: 1,661 ✭✭✭Castlekeeper


    I've a suggestion, for geographical purposes why not call them " The Porcupine Islands"?
    That it makes no sense, apart from geographically, is perfect, along with the exception being that the locals are a bit prickly about the whole issue.


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    #209
    Ironicname
    Registered Users Posts: 1,177 ✭✭✭Ironicname


    Deleted User wrote:
    A country is separate to a nation. Many in NI do not wish to be part of the UK, but were born on the island of Ireland and have as much right as anybody on the island of Ireland to consider themselves Irish.

    Really? Should people from cork get to say they are from Sligo because it's in the same land mass.

    The island of Ireland is two separate countries.

    What is the difference between a nation and a country? Genuinely interested.


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    #210
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Ironicname wrote: »
    What is the difference between a nation and a country? Genuinely interested.

    Google is your friend. BTW, best to understand what you're arguing against before countering :P


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    #211
    Ironicname
    Registered Users Posts: 1,177 ✭✭✭Ironicname


    Deleted User wrote:
    Google is your friend. BTW, best to understand what you're arguing against before countering

    Cheers. Just googled it. Still seems like you are talking out of your arse.


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