Do you consider nationalists from Northern Ireland to be Irish?

Mad_maxx

Donnielighto wrote: »

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I missed that, apologies.



A country is separate to a nation. Many in NI do not wish to be part of the UK, but were born on the island of Ireland and have as much right as anybody on the island of Ireland to consider themselves Irish.

In the same way Canadians and Mexicans are Americans.

Yes, a geographical description

Waters the Irish concept down to near nothingness

Mad_maxx

Mad_maxx wrote: »

They use the "im Irish" handle in a different context, a geographical description at best

We can argue about definitions, but I believe approx 29% of Protestants believe they are Irish, and not just in a geographic sense. They are entitled to also wish to be part of the British State, and per the GFA they can.





https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-44398502

Sleeper12

Donnielighto wrote:

You cut out the second part of the post and so your response doesn't deal with what I was asking, they are both pertinent.

Maybe I don't understand the question.

I thought I gave the parameters you were referring to. They get to choose themselves. Irish or British or both.

Donnielighto

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Yes, a geographical description

Waters the Irish concept down to near nothingness

Pretty much Ive asked a few times about what Irish means. Until that is decided it can mean a few things and they have different parameters. Genetic (not sure if that can be identified), geographic, cultural, ethnic.llQq

Mad_maxx

Deleted User wrote: »

Mad_maxx wrote: »

They use the "im Irish" handle in a different context, a geographical description at best

We can argue about definitions, but I believe approx 29% of Protestants believe they are Irish, and not just in a geographic sense. They are entitled to also wish to be part of the British State, and per the GFA they can.





https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-44398502

What percentage of unionists support a united Ireland? , that's the figure which signals accurately

Mad_maxx

Mad_maxx wrote: »

What percentage of unionists support a united Ireland? , that's the figure which signals accurately

About 5% (and possibly increasing).


But, that's your bar and I wouldn't agree with it.

Mad_maxx

Deleted User wrote: »

Mad_maxx wrote: »

What percentage of unionists support a united Ireland? , that's the figure which signals accurately

About 5% (and possibly increasing).


But, that's your bar and I wouldn't agree with it.

If 95% of unionists oppose a united Ireland, that's their perogative, eventually the mainland will drop northern Ireland

We then have to make the best of things but unionists have been horribly indulged by everyone forever, that should end now, the Irish media could be first to cease doing so

Junkyard Tom

downcow wrote: »

This team represents two countries and up to now only the flag of one is tolerated.

NI isn't a country and doesn't have a flag or anthem so I don't know what it is you think should be displayed.

my community/country.

Your community has no exclusive right to dictate what flag is acceptable to the people of the north. Go away and agree to a flag acceptable to everyone in the north and see how you get on.

Would that be acceptable to you guys? Two flags ROI and NI

Absolutely not.

Sleeper12

Deleted User wrote:

And you knew what they meant. And it was an official term. You can add it to the list of

These islands of ours wasn't in the education books recommended & approved by the Irish government. They could have insisted that it be changed but they never did. They officially recognised term British Isles by allowing it, in fact, approving it in our books and schools.

I'm sorry but to claim that we haven't recognised this term on a government level is plain nuts.

Mad_maxx

Mad_maxx wrote: »

If 95% of unionists oppose a united Ireland, that's their perogative, eventually the mainland will drop northern Ireland

We then have to make the best of things but unionists have been horribly indulged by everyone forever, that should end now, the Irish media could be first to cease doing so

To be pedantic 100% of unionists oppose a United Ireland


Yeah, I agree, it looks like London is going to sacrifice NI on the altar of Brexit.



The DUP have been the best thing for a United Ireland since Charles Stuart Parnell. Arlene for Taoiseach!!!

Sleeper12

Sleeper12 wrote: »

They officially recognised term British Isles by allowing it, in fact, approving it in our books and schools.

I'm sitting alongside a primary school teacher and she doesn't know anyone that uses the British Isles term.


You may think they do... actually, are you in school ? Do you want us to have a talk with your out of step teacher?

Ironicname

Junkyard Tom wrote:

NI isn't country

Really? It's not a recognised country? I would've amazed if that is true.

Are you sure?

Berserker

downcow wrote: »

I was fairly disgusted/disappointed by the flying of the flag of one province and one country, but i surprised myself as i realised how trans-formative it would be if the IRFU carried the flags of the two countries. As someone who can give no allegiance to the team currently, I would be routing for it if it gave this gesture to my community/country. What do you think. Would that be acceptable to you guys? Two flags ROI and NI

The IRFU is a very progressive organisation, the most progressive of the major sporting organisations on the island and I think that they above will be in place in a few years time. It would be proper and right to have both flags on display. AnF will be phased out over time also and 'Ireland's Call' will be played at home and away games. The pilot of playing it at away games as the anthem has been a huge success. Rugby fans in NI and the RoI are mature and open enough to support this change. They should be held up as an example to all.

I've always wondered what the Irish football team would be like if the IFA and FAI has remained as one body. Hard to see why it wouldn't replicate the rugby on the pitch. The inclusion of representatives from the IFA might has resulted in a more professional setup.

SharpshooterTom

Mad_maxx wrote: »

We don't have a choice not to buy it, it's happening, it will also likely involve a multi decade effort to put down a loyalist terror campaign

Unlikely the protestants who don't like it will just pack up and leave to the UK mainland. A lot of them already are anyway as protestants have a higher migration rate to GB without returning than catholics. Arlene Foster said she herself would leave.

The ones who stay are the one's who probably don't care and will just get on with it.

Ironicname

Berserker wrote:

The IRFU is a very progressive organisation

I always found progressive to be an odd word. It in common parlance means "forwarding the agenda de jour".

Doesn't mean we are progressing.

Sorry, just my aside.

Berserker

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm sitting alongside a primary school teacher and she doesn't know anyone that uses the British Isles term.

God help the children if that is the case. Suppose they have Google and the internet to help fill the gaps.

Sleeper12

Deleted User wrote:

I'm sitting alongside a primary school teacher and she doesn't know anyone that uses the British Isles term.

Is she a hundred years old?

You are trying to twist what I am saying. It was part of the Irish edition system 10 years ago! This is a fact. It's not in the books now but it was 10 years ago. In fact some students would have had old versions with British Isles in it up to maybe as recent as 5 years ago

British Isles was in department of education approved books up until 2007. Why didn't the government demand the removal of the the offending term before approving the books? By leaving it there they gave credence to the term.

Berserker

Berserker wrote: »

God help the children if that is the case.

Funnily enough that would be a zero indicator for success.



The Irish educational system holds up very well thank you. Ask any of the multi-national companies that have their EMEA HQ in Ireland. Try again...

Sleeper12

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Is she a hundred years old?

You are trying to twist what I am saying. It was part of the Irish edition system 10 years ago! This is a fact. It's not in the books now but it was 10 years ago. In fact some students would have had old versions with British Isles in it up to maybe as recent as 5 years ago

British Isles was in department of education approved books up until 2007. Why didn't the government demand the removal of the the offending term before approving the books? By leaving it there they gave credence to the term.

Because, here's a shocker, it's not that important. Changing books is expensive. They most certainly didn't change the books that had Pluto as an official planet until much later. Teachers are able to teach around books.

Ironicname

Deleted User wrote:

The Irish educational system holds up very well thank you. Ask any of the multi-national companies that have their EMEA HQ in Ireland. Try again...

Quick aside, would you class yourself as a feminist?

Ironicname

Ironicname wrote: »

Quick aside, would you class yourself as a feminist?

What? :pac:

Berserker

Deleted User wrote: »

The Irish educational system holds up very well thank you.

Relieved to hear that. Last few articles I read about education in Ireland were deeply critical of the system. Spoke about low levels of funding and class bias in a multi-tier system, if I remember correctly. One financial worry less for the government.

Deleted User wrote: »

Ask any of the multi-national companies that have their EMEA HQ in Ireland. Try again...

And it is why they are searching the globe for workers to come here to fill vacancies in their organisations. They have their headquarters here for financial reasons.

Sleeper12

Deleted User wrote:

Because, here's a shocker, it's not that important. Changing books is expensive. They most certainly didn't change the books that had Pluto as an official planet until much later. Teachers are able to teach around books.

I'm sorry but that's the most stupid comment on the thread.
It's been in the books for a hundred years! They could have asked at the next printing to change it. They have made many changes to other books over the years.

We've been teaching it to our children for 100 years and it's too expensive to change the wording over the 100 year period!


I'm lost. I'm gobsmacked that you would make such a silly claim.

I'm unfollowing again because you aren't even trying to make sense here

careless sherpa

Sleeper12 wrote: »

These islands of ours wasn't in the education books recommended & approved by the Irish government. They could have insisted that it be changed but they never did. They officially recognised term British Isles by allowing it, in fact, approving it in our books and schools.

I'm sorry but to claim that we haven't recognised this term on a government level is plain nuts.

The Irish government do not approve of the term. That should be clear on the official acceptance of British isles as a descriptor for these islands. It is a redundant term. You are just going to have to come to terms with that

Ironicname

Deleted User wrote:

What?

Feel free not to answer

Berserker

Berserker wrote: »

Relieved to hear that. Last few articles I read about education in Ireland were deeply critical of the system. Spoke about low levels of funding and class bias in a multi-tier system, if I remember correctly. One financial worry less for the government.

Glad that was cleared up.

Berserker wrote: »

And it is why they are searching the globe for workers to come here to fill vancancies in their organisations. They have their headquarters here for financial reasons.

Because these companies are absolutely massive, catering as they are, for huge areas and need huge levels of staff. Ireland is a relatively small country.



Really, only financial reasons? Why not set up in Gibraltar or Outer Mongolia. There's many reasons, favourable tax is one reason for sure. But, you'd be wrong to think it was the only reason.



English speaking.
Conducive to American culture (US expats like it)
Education levels


And as proof, how many Continental Europe companies set up their HQ's in Ireland. They'd get the same tax breaks. Answer (worryingly little).

Ironicname

Ironicname wrote: »

Feel free not to answer

Okay, it's too random for this thread. But, thanks for the interest

Sleeper12

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I'm sorry but that's the most stupid comment on the thread.
It's been in the books for a hundred years! They could have asked at the next printing to change it. They have made many changes to other books over the years.

We've been teaching it to our children for 100 years and it's too expensive to change the wording over the 100 year period!


I'm lost. I'm gobsmacked that you would make such a silly claim.

I'm unfollowing again because you aren't even trying to make sense here

Probably for the best, because I'm a little uncertain what point you're trying to make. You said yourself it was only official since 2007. That, and you may need to come back to correct me, seems less than 100 years ago. :rolleyes:


Do the books published recently have the term British Isles on them? Can you scan a copy on here?

downcow

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Fantastic, but what flag would that be?

I think most living in ni would accept the Ulster banner (nearly same as Ulster province flag but white instead of yellow). Clearly the union flag is the official flag of ni but I think most unionist would be very happy to compromise with the UB as the union flag would probably be too sensitive for roi people.

So in short the same flag as ni use in most other sporting events

alastair

Donnielighto wrote: »

Pretty much Ive asked a few times about what Irish means. Until that is decided it can mean a few things and they have different parameters. Genetic (not sure if that can be identified), geographic, cultural, ethnic.llQq

It’s anyone entitled to Irish citizenship, or who naturalises. Which would include the people born on this island, the broader diaspora who have Irish parents or grandparents, and immigrants who attain citizenship. A fraction of the above actually exercise their Irishness, but all certainly qualify.