Do you consider nationalists from Northern Ireland to be Irish?

saabsaab

Whatever anyone was taught in the past and political maps have changed a lot over the last century see pre WWI maps. Just look up Google maps it shows UK and Ireland not 'British isles'

Sleeper12

alastair wrote:

If you rename something it has a different name. That’s how terminology works. The islands remain unchanged, but the old terminology is redundant.

Who has renamed it? What is the new name for the British Isles? A geography book publisher dropped the term from their book in 2007. This hasn't stopped forward thinking teachers to explain to the class about the term the British Isles. It hasn't vanished fr schools.

saabsaab wrote:

Whatever anyone was taught in the past and political maps have changed a lot over the last century see pre WWI maps. Just look up Google maps it shows UK and Ireland not 'British isles'

Google maps shows Raheny, Kilbarrack & surrounding areas as Donaghade. They have created names that don't exist like Clontarf East & West. It also shows almost all of the norts side of Dublin City and part of the South side of Dublin City as Arbour Hill.

God help us if the coming generations use Googles totally false names as fact.

Sleeper12

alastair wrote:

So, Take me back to Constantinople No, you can't go back to Constantinople Been a long time gone, Oh Constantinople Why did Constantinople get the works? That's nobody's business but the Turks

Ireland can name Ireland anything it wants & this will be recognised worldwide. Ireland doesn't own all of the British Isles so Ireland can't rename it. It would be akin to Ireland trying to rename Europe. This could only be done with the agreement of all of the European countries.

careless sherpa

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Ireland can name Ireland anything it wants & this will be recognised worldwide. Ireland doesn't own all of the British Isles so Ireland can't rename it. It would be akin to Ireland trying to rename Europe. This could only be done with the agreement of all of the European countries.

The UK government does not even use the British isles anymore. It is only really used by a few southern unionists now that cling to the past

Rodin

To all those claiming Nordies aren't Irish... were the following people Irish?

P H Pearse
Michael Collins
Arthur Griffith
Cathal Brugha
Douglas Hyde
?

Sleeper12

careless sherpa wrote:

The UK government does not even use the British isles anymore. It is only really used by a few southern unionists now that cling to the past

You don't understand what the British Isles is. Its a land mass. Its not political in any shape or form. The term British Isles is not the same as Great Britain. Great Britain is a political term. British Isles describes a collection or over 500 Islands. It doesn't mean that Britain rules Ireland or that we are part of Great Britain.

The UK government does use the term British Isles & they use it because that is what this particular part of the European land mass is called.

What other new name do you believe is used to describe the 500 odd islands?

The name British Isles hasn't been changed. Worldwide its still called the British Isles. If a classroom in America, Australia or Africa was to talk about this part of the world they use the term British Isles. "These islands of ours" will have no meaning to the people in America etc and will not help describe the islands or what part of the world they are in.

alastair

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Ireland can name Ireland anything it wants & this will be recognised worldwide. Ireland doesn't own all of the British Isles so Ireland can't rename it. It would be akin to Ireland trying to rename Europe. This could only be done with the agreement of all of the European countries.

Nobody sought agreement from Ireland for it’s inclusion in a term that it has no place in. There’s absolutely no obligation on anyone, anywhere, to adhere to a British term that seeks to incorporate territory that isn’t British. Europe is equally a concept that has been open to political interpretation, and who’s boundaries have shifted with time, but at least the term hasn’t implied dominance by any of it’s component nations.

alastair

Sleeper12 wrote: »

You don't understand what the British Isles is. Its a land mass. Its not political in any shape or form. The term British Isles is not the same as Great Britain. Great Britain is a political term. British Isles describes a collection or over 500 Islands. It doesn't mean that Britain rules Ireland or that we are part of Great Britain.

The UK government does use the term British Isles & they use it because that is what this particular part of the European land mass is called.

What other new name do you believe is used to describe the 500 odd islands?

The name British Isles hasn't been changed. Worldwide its still called the British Isles. If a classroom in America, Australia or Africa was to talk about this part of the world they use the term British Isles. "These islands of ours" will have no meaning to the people in America etc and will not help describe the islands or what part of the world they are in.

The land mass is distinct from the term. The term is undoubtedly political. And the Geographic land mass isn’t even what the term refers to. The Channel Islands are not part of the land mass, but are included in the term.

Sleeper12

Sleeper12 wrote: »

You don't understand what the British Isles is.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Isles_naming_dispute

We should also probably change the name of the British Lions to something more representative of including Ireland.*


*Posted from the year 2000

saabsaab

The term 'British Isles' is out of date. In fact it is not recognized by the Gov of Ireland.

Sleeper12

alastair wrote:

The land mass is distinct from the term. The term is undoubtedly political. And the Geographic land mass isn’t even what the term refers to. The Channel Islands are not part of the land mass, but are included in the term.

Saved pollu wrote:

North European Archipelago.

A Google search of this only returns British Isles results!

alastair

Sleeper12 wrote: »

A Google search of this only returns British Isles results!

I thought you didn’t rate Google as a source?

SharpshooterTom

facehugger99 wrote: »

People from the ROI would have more in common with the average Englishman than with the average Nationalist from NI.

I was waiting for someone to say this.

So how much GAA do they play in England? Here in rural Tyrone its by far the most popular sport, Omagh town FC went into administration because the locals had no interest and wanted to play GAA instead.

How much Irish do they learn in England at school?

If any Irish person has more common with English people it would be Irish nordies given they are part of the UK, do GCSE/A Levels, watch British TV, but even then that's a stretch.

Most English people don't care about Ireland north or south, most English people have never even been to Ireland.

Sleeper12

saabsaab wrote:

The term 'British Isles' is out of date. In fact it is not recognized by the Gov of Ireland.

What is the official term for it in Ireland?

Repeated searches keep returning British Isles

Ironicname

Rodin wrote:

P H Pearse Michael Collins Arthur Griffith Cathal Brugha Douglas Hyde ?

I probably would have thought some of them were. I guess from the tone of your post they were Northern Irish. That's ok.

It'd be like someone surprised that someone from Wales is English or someone who you thought was English is actually from Scotland.

Sleeper12

Saved pollu wrote:

It's the Northern European Archipelago!

You literally made that up!

We aren't Northern Europeans. Your term points to Sweden direction.

You could argue North West but that still isn't official recognised in any country.

alastair

Sleeper12 wrote: »

You literally made that up!

We aren't Northern Europeans. Your term points to Sweden direction.

You could argue North West but that still isn't official recognised in any country.

The British Isles isn’t an official term either.

Sleeper12

alastair wrote:

I thought you didn’t rate Google as a source?

Google maps is not Acupuncture.

Google, yahoo and bing are not Google maps

alastair wrote:

Nobody sought agreement from Ireland for it’s inclusion in a term that it has no place in. There’s absolutely no obligation on anyone, anywhere, to adhere to a British term that seeks to incorporate territory that isn’t British. Europe is equally a concept that has been open to political interpretation, and who’s boundaries have shifted with time, but at least the term hasn’t implied dominance by any of it’s component nations.

It's been taught in Irish schools for almost a hundred years.

We accepted the term and actually promoted the term in our schools for a hundred years. Now with the easily offended generation it not in fashion.

Sleeper12

Sleeper12 wrote: »

What is the official term for it in Ireland?

Repeated searches keep returning British Isles

Why do the islands of Ireland and the UK need to be grouped together? Answer that and you'll learn a lot about yourself.

Castlekeeper

Sleeper12 wrote: »

alastair wrote:

The fact is that the terminology can be changed, and has been changed in Irish geography textbooks. In 2007.

It's still the British Isles though. Calling a potato an apple doesn't make it an apple.

Where does pomme du terre fit in all of that? Calling it a potato doesn't make it thus.
Just because some British agency decided the term sounded well and suited their sense of colonial entitlement doesn't give it any legitimacy. It's use is aggressive and possessive and is not to be tolerated.
See previous example of Malvinas/ Falklands.

alastair

Sleeper12 wrote: »

It's been taught in Irish schools for almost a hundred years.

We accepted the term and actually promoted the term in our schools for a hundred years. Now with the easily offended generation it not in fashion.

Lots of redundant claims were taught in schools for many years. The easily offended seem to me to be the ones who can’t handle change.

facehugger99

ThomasFlynn wrote: »

Most English people don't care about Ireland north or south, most English people have never even been to Ireland.

Most ROI people don't care about NI and I'd say most ROI people have never been to NI.

alastair

Deleted User wrote: »

Why do the islands of Ireland and the UK need to be grouped together? Answer that and you'll learn a lot about yourself.

And where they do there’s the perfectly usable ‘Britain and Ireland’, or ‘Ireland and Britain’, if you prefer.

SharpshooterTom

facehugger99 wrote: »

Most ROI people don't care about NI and I'd say most ROI people have never been to NI.

Not sure about this.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=101958707

I think you're projecting your own opinions on NI as the majority of people in the ROI when I don't think they are.

coolshannagh28

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

They are Irish, but there’s definitely something different about Nordies. Very sour and dour people who are seemingly incapable of letting things go.

Broad brushstrokes there

s7ryf3925pivug

Northern Ireland is part of Ireland and not part of Great Britain. It is part of the UK. People from there can identify as part of the UK or not but they are all Irish by definition.

Sleeper12

quote=alastair]The British Isles isn’t an official term either.[/quote]

It is actually. Its been in use since the 1500s.

Deleted User wrote:

Why do the islands of Ireland and the UK need to be grouped together? Answer that and you'll learn a lot about yourself.

Do we not have the Aran Islands? It is normal to group islands like this from a geography point of view. They are grouped together for geography terms. Ireland & the UK were part of the same country /land mass at one stage. Its important to group them together when teaching geography.

There is no need to group them together for any other reason apart from geography.

Castlekeeper wrote:

Where does pomme du terre fit in all of that? Calling it a potato doesn't make it thus. Just because some British agency decided the term sounded well and suited their sense of colonial entitlement doesn't give it any legitimacy. It's use is aggressive and possessive and is not to be tolerated. See previous example of Malvinas/ Falklands.

Again, the term is from the 1500s and relates to the geography of the two countries. Many posters refuse to see the difference between Great Britain and the British Isles. This is the same nonsense as someone saying that they are sick to the stomach when they see a UK flag in Ireland yet haven't a problem with a US flag in Ireland.

We are a Republic. We won & England lost. A hundred years later can we not move on?

Sleeper12

Sleeper12 wrote: »

quote=alastair]


Do we not have the Aran Islands? It is normal to group islands like this from a geography point of view. They are grouped together for geography terms. Ireland & the UK were part of the same country /land mass at one stage. Its important to group them together when teaching geography.

There is no need to group them together for any other reason apart from geography.

News Flash, Ireland is no longer part of the UK, and things British, therefore it is an anachronism. Some Anglophiles will still use it, and even go to strained lengths to justify it. It hasn't been part of the same land mass for thousands of years, long before the term British had been invented.

It was called the British Isles even geographically because it was ruled by Britain. I refer you to the newsflash as the start of this post. And the Aran islands is simply their name, which is in no way anachronistic.

facehugger99

ThomasFlynn wrote: »

Not sure about this.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=101958707

I think you're projecting your own opinions on NI as the majority of people in the ROI when I don't think they are.

A Boards Poll as proof?

alastair

Sleeper12 wrote: »

It is actually. Its been in use since the 1500s.

That makes it archaic. It doesn’t make it official. It’s not used in any official capacity by anyone - including the U.K. government.

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Again, the term is from the 1500s and relates to the geography of the two countries. Many posters refuse to see the difference between Great Britain and the British Isles. This is the same nonsense as someone saying that they are sick to the stomach when they see a UK flag in Ireland yet haven't a problem with a US flag in Ireland.

The term is the issue, and has nothing to do with geography. The geography exists irregardless of the term applied, so why not apply an accurate term? No posters other than yourself have mentioned flags, or Great Britain. Projection isn’t an argument.