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Do you consider nationalists from Northern Ireland to be Irish?

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    #362
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users Posts: 16,881 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    alastair wrote:
    Britain and Ireland is a geographic term too. Precisely the same geographic area as the other term.


    Not quite true.

    Places like the Isle of man are part of the British Isles but are not part of Britain.

    Ireland & Britain doesn't describe the same geographical area as the British Isles.


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    #363
    Fornevermore
    Site Banned Posts: 68 ✭✭Fornevermore


    alastair wrote: »
    Maybe so, but if you identify as an Ulster man/woman, that’s an Irish identity too. Just from a different tradition. Just like Cork people. Insular cranks with silly accents. 😛

    Why wouldn't an Ulster man/woman be an Irish identity?


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    #364
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users Posts: 16,881 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    alastair wrote:
    Frank Aiken’s suggestion, as minister for external affairs to a U.K. publisher in 1969; ‘Ireland and Britain, or some such terminology’. He said ‘British Isles’ should not be used.

    And yet the department of education ensured that I was taught all about the British Isles in the mid 70s.

    It's called playing to the audience


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    #365
    Fornevermore
    Site Banned Posts: 68 ✭✭Fornevermore


    Sinbad_NI wrote: »
    Don't agree at all.

    They just go anti the other side. Celtic was set up by Irish people and is seen as an Irish club in Scotland; unionists support rangers. Irish people support the fight for freedom by the people of Palestine; unionists back Israel. It goes on.


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    #366
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users Posts: 16,881 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    riffmongous wrote:
    That makes no sense.. if Ireland is acceptable why isn't Britain and Ireland?


    As already explained the British Isles includes the likes of the isle of man but its not part of Great Britain.

    Britain & Ireland does not cover the same geographic area as the British Isles


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    #367
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Sleeper12 wrote: »
    And yet the department of education ensured that I was taught all about the British Isles in the mid 70s.

    Science in school used to also teach that there are only 3 states of matter.

    Basically, THEY LIED TO YOU MAN! :pac:


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    #368
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users Posts: 16,881 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    Deleted User wrote:
    Science in school used to also teach that there are only 3 states of matter.


    There's a lot of posters here need to go back to school. Lots of islands like Jersey &, Guernsey etc aren't part of Great Britain yet are part of the British Isles.


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    #369
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Sleeper12 wrote: »
    Not quite true.

    Places like the Isle of man are part of the British Isles but are not part of Britain.

    Ireland & Britain doesn't describe the same geographical area as the British Isles.

    The Isle of Man is part of Britain, it’s not a part of the UK. Every island is either part of Britain or Ireland.


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    #370
    Sinbad_NI
    Registered Users Posts: 1,059 ✭✭✭Sinbad_NI


    Fornevermore wrote: »
    They just go anti the other side. Celtic was set up by Irish people and is seen as an Irish club in Scotland; unionists support rangers. Irish people support the fight for freedom by the people of Palestine; unionists back Israel. It goes on.

    I agree, two sides of the same coin.

    Your arguing my point of view I think.


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    #371
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,595 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Nationalists up North:

    They are more bloody Irish than most in the South.....

    And they have fought tooth, nail, life and limb for that right!


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    #372
    Fornevermore
    Site Banned Posts: 68 ✭✭Fornevermore


    Sinbad_NI wrote: »
    I agree, two sides of the same coin.

    Your arguing my point of view I think.

    You obviously didn't read my post. Some unionists just back things to go against what the 'other side' support. Irish people have a natural connection and affinity to Celtic and Palestine.


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    #373
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,194 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    walshb wrote: »
    Nationalists up North:

    They are more bloody Irish than most in the South.....

    And they have fought tooth, nail, life and limb for that right!


    The idea of Irishness has moved on in the South, it is stuck in the past in the North.


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    #374
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,595 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    blanch152 wrote: »
    The idea of Irishness has moved on in the South, it is stuck in the past in the North.

    I get you..

    Personally, I am the same. I don't see myself now as Irish or anything. Just human, and living in the world. Identities and cultures are being eroded.

    It doesn't bother me either way...


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    #375
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users Posts: 16,881 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    alastair wrote:
    The Isle of Man is part of Britain, it’s not a part of the UK. Every island is either part of Britain or Ireland.

    Do more research.

    Great Britain is Ireland North, Scotland, Wales and, England. Only four countries. The Channel Islands are part of the British Isles but not part of Great Britain. Jersey is British Crown dependent put not part of Britain


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    #376
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users Posts: 16,881 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    Jersey, Guernsey and the Isle of Man are part of the British Isles. England, Scotland and Wales make up Great Britain, while the United Kingdom includes Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Jersey is a British Crown Dependency.
    ​Currency: ​British pound sterling / Jersey cu...
    ​Government: ​Parliamentary democracy
    ​Geographical area: ​45.5 sq miles / 120 sq ..

    https://www.gov.je/Leisure/Jersey/pages/profile.aspx


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    #377
    Donnielighto
    Registered Users Posts: 3,761 ✭✭✭Donnielighto


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    The British & Irish Isles? Is that so mad?

    A certain cohort thought the end of the world had arrived when a certain rugby team was changed to The British and Irish Lions. But hardly anyone bats an eyelid now.

    That's fair enough tbh, it isn't used currently but I'd have no problem doing so. Irish and British isles? :Pac:


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    #378
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,595 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Regarding the poll:

    Seems simple to me. Loyalists and Unionists see themselves very much as British...

    Nationalists, very much as Irish......


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    #379
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Sleeper12 wrote: »
    Do more research.

    Great Britain is Ireland North, Scotland, Wales and, England. Only four countries. The Channel Islands are part of the British Isles but not part of Great Britain. Jersey is British Crown dependent put not part of Britain

    The Channel Islands are not actually part of the geographic body you term the British Isles. They’re part of the French archipelago. They are however British, with full British citizenship for their populations, just as applies to the Isle of Man. They’re not part of the U.K., but are definitely British, and not designated overseas territories, not British subjects, but citizens, they have representation on the British-Irish Council, so they are part of Britain, if not politically part of GB.


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    #380
    Sinbad_NI
    Registered Users Posts: 1,059 ✭✭✭Sinbad_NI


    Fornevermore wrote: »
    You obviously didn't read my post. Some unionists just back things to go against what the 'other side' support. Irish people have a natural connection and affinity to Celtic and Palestine.

    Other posters in this thread are arguing about the name of the British Isles and it not being acceptable from the Irish government point of view.

    From the outside its almost like its just to "go against the other side"?

    For me it's very much two sides of the same coin. Nothing changes on this island until people just move on and live and let live.


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    #381
    Fornevermore
    Site Banned Posts: 68 ✭✭Fornevermore


    Sinbad_NI wrote: »
    Other posters in this thread are arguing about the name of the British Isles and it not being acceptable from the Irish government point of view.

    From the outside its almost like its just to "go against the other side"?

    For me it's very much two sides of the same coin. Nothing changes on this island until people just move on and live and let live.

    It's clearly not the british isles, was just a term created by occupiers of a country. In this case, the 'other side' is the people who killed millions of Irish people. I'm sure everyone is against them?


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    #382
    Sinbad_NI
    Registered Users Posts: 1,059 ✭✭✭Sinbad_NI


    Fornevermore wrote: »
    It's clearly not the british isles, was just a term created by occupiers of a country. In this case, the 'other side' is the people who killed millions of Irish people. I'm sure everyone is against them?

    Your original point was that unionists align themselves with anything anti Irish.

    I was saying it was true the other way as well.

    Has your post above not just confirmed that?


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    #383
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users Posts: 16,881 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    alastair wrote:
    The Channel Islands are not actually part of the geographic body you term the British Isles. They’re part of the French archipelago. They are however British, with full British citizenship for their populations, just as applies to the Isle of Man. They’re not part of the U.K., but are definitely British, and not designated overseas territories, not British subjects, but citizens, so they are part of Britain, if not politically part of GB.

    Gibraltar has British citizens but they aren't part of Great Britain. Britain & British and two totally different things.

    I have provided a link to the Jersey government website and it clearly states that they are NOT part of Great Britain

    There are only four countries in Great Britain

    Ireland & Britain doesn't describe the area that "British Isles" describes, so it is not a suitable


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    #384
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Sinbad_NI wrote: »
    Other posters in this thread are arguing about the name of the British Isles and it not being acceptable from the Irish government point of view.

    From the outside its almost like its just to "go against the other side"?

    For me it's very much two sides of the same coin. Nothing changes on this island until people just move on and live and let live.

    It’s not acceptable, because it’s inaccurate. That’s not an antagonistic position to take, merely acknowledging that it’s a misnomer.


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    #385
    Fornevermore
    Site Banned Posts: 68 ✭✭Fornevermore


    Sinbad_NI wrote: »
    Your original point was that unionists align themselves with anything anti Irish.

    I was saying it was true the other way as well.

    Has your post above not just confirmed that?

    How is going against people who've killed millions anti british? Is it anti German to be against the nazis?


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    #386
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Sleeper12 wrote: »
    Gibraltar has British citizens but they aren't part of Great Britain. Britain & British and two totally different things.

    I have provided a link to the Jersey government website and it clearly states that they are NOT part of Great Britain

    There are only four countries in Great Britain

    Ireland & Britain doesn't describe the area that "British Isles" describes, so it is not a suitable

    Gibraltar doesn’t have British citizenship. It has British Overseas Territories citizenship - not the same thing at all. Those holding British citizenship as a consequence of their national territory are clearly part of Britain.

    Britain and Ireland incorporates all of the islands that ‘British Isles’ do, with the benefit of also including the Channel Islands, not technically part of the geographic ‘British Isles’. But then the Irish State got to that conclusion decades ago.


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    #387
    ArtMonkey
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12 ✭ArtMonkey


    Of course they're Irish. Unionists can identify as British if they want. But everyone else on the island is Irish to me. Regarding those who have hard feelings towards folks from the North and think they're not Irish, some people forget their history very easily and believe anything Politicians tell them because they think that makes them a good obedient citizen, whereas in reality it just makes them disloyal mugs.


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    #388
    Fornevermore
    Site Banned Posts: 68 ✭✭Fornevermore


    ArtMonkey wrote: »
    Of course they're Irish. Unionists can identify as British if they want. But everyone else on the island is Irish to me. Regarding those who have hard feelings towards folks from the North and think they're not Irish, some people forget their history very easily and believe anything Politicians tell them because they think that makes them a good obedient citizen, whereas in reality it just makes them disloyal mugs.

    ****ing traitors. Were there no Irish people 100 years ago?


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