Girls don't cycle! Guess whos fault it is?

Sittingpretty

Apologies for the abysmal punctuation in the above.

is_that_so

Sittingpretty wrote: »

I’ll be hung out to dry for this but sure isn’t everything men’s fault now? Isn’t it up to men to fix every societal wrong that they are responsible for.

This third wave feminism nonsense is far too happy to firmly place women into victim hood.

Such a nonsense article. How many men (even the oaf ones) would risk wolf whistling a teenage girl on a bike these days? Very few I’d wager because they know before the whistle is done they’ll be on Facebook and vigilantes will be at their door.

The lack of young female cyclists I’d expect is far more to do with having to wear safety gear, their parents not allowing them because it’s not safe because our roads are not suitable for the most part for cyclists and thirdly they’re teenagers, most are far too lazy to hop up on their bikes in the rain when they can be carted to school in the comfort of the family car while retaining their polished brows and no helmet hair.

TLDR: It’s not men’s fault.

On the face of it I see very few girls at primary level on bikes anyway, aside from very small ones, so is it really an activity that girls embrace for a young age?

Wibbs

Sittingpretty wrote: »

I’ll be hung out to dry for this but sure isn’t everything men’s fault now? Isn’t it up to men to fix every societal wrong that they are responsible for.

Yup. Modern "feminism": Women are always delicate victims without agency and it's always men's fault and agency and responsibility to fix it. Even when and rarely men are acknowledged as victims, it's still their fault, cos "patriarchy".

The irony is that in actual patriarchies(which the west most certainly isn't) they hold pretty much the same view; women are delicate agentless victims and it's men's responsibility to protect them from harm.

Earthhorse

That’s because we still do live in a patriarchal or post-patriarchal world where we're still dealing with the vestiges of patriarchy (it doesn’t matter too much which).

I can’t remember who said this but; "In the game of patriarchy, women are the ball", and you can see that play out in this thread. Most people don’t actually want to help young women they just want to blame men. And anyone who takes a position against that out of concern that the approach is wrong will have their position repeatedly misrepresented as well as having to fend off endless strawmen.

Not to mention, the assumption is always that if women aren’t behaving exactly like men (in this case cycling enough) something must be wrong. Men are the baseline, women the deviation.

Church on Tuesday

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

I grew up in the 70s with BBC and ITV comedians doing 'paki' jokes, Paddy jokes, 'poof' jokes and 'my wife' jokes. That was 'simply the reality of things'.


The reality of things changed because decent people decided that this wasn't acceptable - so they changed it. If you don't want your daughters, your nieces, your sisters to have to put up with this crap, you need to change. If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.


Thanks for the advice. I've gone back and analysed the post above. I'm perfectly happy with it.


If you're finding it difficult to argue with it on any rational basis, that speaks volumes.



What's this got to do with the topic in hand?

I'm not sure this is good advice, because;
a) if they're a few 16 year old lads, they won't be fat or baldy or have skanky wives, and more importantly
b) that's probably exactly the kind of reaction they want. They are trolls, who will delight in getting that kind of reaction.

Not really. Tastes changed. Stereotypes still exist in entertainment today.

Studios cottoned on to that fact fairly quickly back in the day and then followed suit.

I don't have any daughters, sisters, or nieces and even if I did, I wouldn't feel any need to 'change'. I don't cat call women because I'm not some thirsty cretin.

What I would say to any daughter that I may have in the future is that there are any amounts of ****ty people out there (both sexes) who will try to get a rise out of you and that it is always important to rise above that ****e with dignity. By doing so I'd imagine you are teaching your child some resilience which will be essential to their overall development and survival into adult years.

You can educate in schools and collages all you want but ****ty human behaviors have always been here and they will never go away.

cnocbui

And in the dying embers of this thread, we have post after post, expressing attitudes that give more than a faint clue as to why girls and women tend not to ride bikes and, ironically, make the original articles authors point. Luckily I just happen to have a box full last few rolls of tape, ideal for abraded knuckles. Only €2 a pop; roll up, roll up...

Wayne Jarvis

cnocbui wrote: »

And in the dying embers of this thread

This thread will go on for a good while yet I reckon. It has too many After Hours/IMHO ingredients for it to die out this soon. Also one particular poster has shown up who will argue the minutiae of topics for months on end and enough people will respond to him to keep it going.
Chin up cnocbui, a lot more arguing still to come

gormdubhgorm

seamus wrote: »

Women: “the ones who do cycle say verbal harassment from boys and men is a top deterrent”

This thread: "No, that can't be it! Let's not listen to actual experience, let's just whine about an anti-man agenda"

Why is it so difficult for some people to accept it when women en masse tell you that they experience harrassment from men on an daily basis? Why do you automatically assume that they're lying and engaging in an attack on men?

"I don't see it, so it mustn't happen" - is that it? Is it just self-centeredness?

But sure with this logic it would only take one of two people to be 'harassed' during any everyday activity.
Or if women girls have body image issues they don't engage in activities etc

Swimming -

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/11378695/Body-image-worries-make-half-a-million-women-give-up-swimming.html

Tennis -

https://slate.com/human-interest/2015/07/beauty-standards-and-tennis-players-women-still-aren-t-supposed-to-look-strong.html

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jul/14/serena-williams-female-athletes-femininity-police

When you contrast how men and women in general view themselves most women view themselves as overweight, most men view themselves as normal weight

https://jeatdisord.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s40337-017-0163-1

I feel that the problem is the mindset of many women or girls they are very insecure in themselves. Have thin-skins whereas a man would brush off insults for the most part, or laugh it off.
However I notice these days this attitude 'of poor me' has even permeated into some of those males in thier 20's and early 30's who like to tell the world that they are 'in a bad place' etc no matter how minor. And build it up into something major.

To make the whole thing into a harassing women angle is odd to me.
Anyone can be harassed regardless of gender, colour and sexual preference etc - anywhere. You would swear there are gangs of men waiting for a chance to shout abuse girls on bikes at every opportunity

Let's be honest here there is a double standards with many women it is often joked by women that if a 'hot guy' chats up a woman she views it as flirting.
If to put it politely 'less than hot guy' chats up a woman it can be viewed as harassment.


The real problem to me is that women seem to be struggling for a 'battle' to fight these days so have to invent a 'cause' however minimal. So we get silly articles littered with contradictions all over the place like the OP mentioned.
Self image - being more interested in how they look on the bicycle/not stylish or whether they might look bit sweaty.
It is far easier for women or girls to blame another group 'men', rather then look at thier own mindset which is at the root of the issue.
Yet these are the same women and girls who get drawn into a competitive social media (between each other) looking for likes and comments on instragram and facebook posts. With photo filters and so on adding to the fakery of it all.

Diemos

Guy Person

Guy Person wrote: »

This thread will go on for a good while yet I reckon. It has too many After Hours/IMHO ingredients for it to die out this soon.

Needs more Muslims, travellers, and the dramatic return of everyone's favourite soap-opera queen, Pamela Izevbhekai

DEFTLEFTHAND

Wibbs wrote: »

Aye, way more drugs in the former. Allegedly...

They're still machines.

The stamina and strength needed to even complete a 3 week grand tour, never mind winning it.


Iron men.

suicide_circus

Guy Person wrote: »

This thread will go on for a good while yet I reckon. It has too many After Hours/IMHO ingredients for it to die out this soon. Also one particular poster has shown up who will argue the minutiae of topics for months on end and enough people will respond to him to keep it going.
Chin up cnocbui, a lot more arguing still to come

do actually make any contributions at all apart from trying to derail threads you deem to be wrongthink?

Wayne Jarvis

suicide_circus wrote: »

do actually make any contributions at all apart from trying to derail threads you deem to be wrongthink?

Any post to a thread is a contribution. I don't think you know what derail means. I don't know what wrongthink means.

Ted_YNWA

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Needs more Muslims, travellers, and the dramatic return of everyone's favourite soap-opera queen, Pamela Izevbhekai

Once it gets the fully house, onto the Radio forum it goes.

:pac:

AndrewJRenko

Wibbs wrote: »

It was actually a quote from Eldridge Cleaver.



But thanks for the reminder of how the establishment in the UK worked hard to undermine any hint of left wing thinking in the 70s. It worked too.

Sittingpretty wrote: »

I’ll be hung out to dry for this but sure isn’t everything men’s fault now? Isn’t it up to men to fix every societal wrong that they are responsible for.

This third wave feminism nonsense is far too happy to firmly place women into victim hood.

Such a nonsense article. How many men (even the oaf ones) would risk wolf whistling a teenage girl on a bike these days? Very few I’d wager because they know before the whistle is done they’ll be on Facebook and vigilantes will be at their door.

The lack of young female cyclists I’d expect is far more to do with having to wear safety gear, their parents not allowing them because it’s not safe because our roads are not suitable for the most part for cyclists and thirdly they’re teenagers, most are far too lazy to hop up on their bikes in the rain when they can be carted to school in the comfort of the family car while retaining their polished brows and no helmet hair.

TLDR: It’s not men’s fault.

Did you actually watch the RTE report and listen to the girls themselves talking about their experiences? Are you suggesting that the group of girls are all liars?

is_that_so wrote: »

On the face of it I see very few girls at primary level on bikes anyway, aside from very small ones, so is it really an activity that girls embrace for a young age?

A good few seem to have embraced it in Galway, when given the right supports.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OaTsXZGyeq4

Church on Tuesday wrote: »

Not really. Tastes changed. Stereotypes still exist in entertainment today.
Studios cottoned on to that fact fairly quickly back in the day and then followed suit.

I don't have any daughters, sisters, or nieces and even if I did, I wouldn't feel any need to 'change'. I don't cat call women because I'm not some thirsty cretin.

What I would say to any daughter that I may have in the future is that there are any amounts of ****ty people out there (both sexes) who will try to get a rise out of you and that it is always important to rise above that ****e with dignity. By doing so I'd imagine you are teaching your child some resilience which will be essential to their overall development and survival into adult years.

You can educate in schools and collages all you want but ****ty human behaviors have always been here and they will never go away.

The issue isn't whether you cat call women. The issue is whether women get cat called. Based on the feedback from the schoolgirl cyclists, these problems still exist. And you're planning on enabling it and blaming the victims for not being tough - classy work.

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

But sure with this logic it would only take one of two people to be 'harassed' during any everyday activity.
Or if women girls have body image issues they don't engage in activities etc

Swimming -

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/11378695/Body-image-worries-make-half-a-million-women-give-up-swimming.html

Tennis -

https://slate.com/human-interest/2015/07/beauty-standards-and-tennis-players-women-still-aren-t-supposed-to-look-strong.html

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jul/14/serena-williams-female-athletes-femininity-police

When you contrast how men and women in general view themselves most women view themselves as overweight, most men view themselves as normal weight

https://jeatdisord.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s40337-017-0163-1

I feel that the problem is the mindset of many women or girls they are very insecure in themselves. Have thin-skins whereas a man would brush off insults for the most part, or laugh it off.
However I notice these days this attitude 'of poor me' has even permeated into some of those males in thier 20's and early 30's who like to tell the world that they are 'in a bad place' etc no matter how minor. And build it up into something major.

To make the whole thing into a harassing women angle is odd to me.
Anyone can be harassed regardless of gender, colour and sexual preference etc - anywhere. You would swear there are gangs of men waiting for a chance to shout abuse girls on bikes at every opportunity

Let's be honest here there is a double standards with many women it is often joked by women that if a 'hot guy' chats up a woman she views it as flirting.
If to put it politely 'less than hot guy' chats up a woman it can be viewed as harassment.


The real problem to me is that women seem to be struggling for a 'battle' to fight these days so have to invent a 'cause' however minimal. So we get silly articles littered with contradictions all over the place like the OP mentioned.
Self image - being more interested in how they look on the bicycle/not stylish or whether they might look bit sweaty.
It is far easier for women or girls to blame another group 'men', rather then look at thier own mindset which is at the root of the issue.
Yet these are the same women and girls who get drawn into a competitive social media (between each other) looking for likes and comments on instragram and facebook posts. With photo filters and so on adding to the fakery of it all.

Cycling to school isn't a sport, like swimming or tennis. It's cycling to school - a normal daily activity. Again, have a listen to the words of the schoolgirls in the RTE clip and tell again that the problem is that the guys who harassed them weren't hot enough.

magicbastarder

Church on Tuesday wrote: »

Or they could just develop a thick skin?

Women have been cat called for aeons. Does it make it right? No. But it is something that happens. Always will.

is this seriously the answer you're suggesting, to women receiving unwanted attention? 'just get used to it'?

my wife tried jogging to keep fit, and gave it up because of consistent comment from the ****ing mouthbreathers who were probably 'just having the craic, wha?'
when she was in school (a couple of decades ago), she and her friends were *regularly* catcalled by grown men while in their uniforms.
a friend is a teacher in a girls school in dublin. about a year ago, i asked her how many girls in her school cycled in, thinking the issues would be safety concerns and unifroms - but the topic at hand was the answer she gave. they don't cycle in because of the unwanted attention that brings.

Sittingpretty

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

It was actually a quote from Eldridge Cleaver.







Did you actually watch the RTE report and listen to the girls themselves talking about their experiences? Are you suggesting that the group of girls are all liars?

Hi Andrew!

I wondered how long it would take you to saddle and mount the high horse.

Yes I did see the report. Does being that patronising come naturally? or do you receive ongoing training to keep yourself tip top of the leaderboard?

I have teens myself Andrew, girls and boys, and I wouldn’t exactly be calling pandemic levels of teenage girl on bike harassment because 4 teen girls on the news said so.

cnocbui

<<snip>>

<snip> - no longer relevant.

Ted_YNWA

No sexist generalisations. Post removed

Church on Tuesday

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

It was actually a quote from Eldridge Cleaver.



But thanks for the reminder of how the establishment in the UK worked hard to undermine any hint of left wing thinking in the 70s. It worked too.





Did you actually watch the RTE report and listen to the girls themselves talking about their experiences? Are you suggesting that the group of girls are all liars?




A good few seem to have embraced it in Galway, when given the right supports.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OaTsXZGyeq4

The issue isn't whether you cat call women. The issue is whether women get cat called. Based on the feedback from the schoolgirl cyclists, these problems still exist. And you're planning on enabling it and blaming the victims for not being tough - classy work.



Cycling to school isn't a sport, like swimming or tennis. It's cycling to school - a normal daily activity. Again, have a listen to the words of the schoolgirls in the RTE clip and tell again that the problem is that the guys who harassed them weren't hot enough.

I'm a total bastard Andrew what can I say?

AndrewJRenko

Sittingpretty wrote: »

Hi Andrew!

I wondered how long it would take you to saddle and mount the high horse.

Yes I did see the report. Does being that patronising come naturally? or do you receive ongoing training to keep yourself tip top of the leaderboard?

I have teens myself Andrew, girls and boys, and I wouldn’t exactly be calling pandemic levels of teenage girl on bike harassment because 4 teen girls on the news said so.

They didn't say it was 'pandemic'. They said it happens often enough to put them off cycling.


I'm a bit unclear on your position - are you saying they are liars?

Church on Tuesday wrote: »

I'm a total bastard Andrew what can I say?

You could say something constructive, something that might take us towards a solution maybe?

Church on Tuesday

magicbastarder wrote: »

is this seriously the answer you're suggesting, to women receiving unwanted attention? 'just get used to it'?

my wife tried jogging to keep fit, and gave it up because of consistent comment from the ****ing mouthbreathers who were probably 'just having the craic, wha?'
when she was in school (a couple of decades ago), she and her friends were *regularly* catcalled by grown men while in their uniforms.
a friend is a teacher in a girls school in dublin. about a year ago, i asked her how many girls in her school cycled in, thinking the issues would be safety concerns and unifroms - but the topic at hand was the answer she gave. they don't cycle in because of the unwanted attention that brings.

Yes it is.

Deal with it. The world is a ****ty place to live in sometimes.

Your wife shouldn't have quit her jogging and just passed no heed. People like that want to get a reaction and know they can easily wind up. Or better still, you go with her next time sure and have a word with these lads.

Honestly I think some folk here have had seriously sheltered upbringings or something. That's life.

Church on Tuesday

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

They didn't say it was 'pandemic'. They said it happens often enough to put them off cycling.


I'm a bit unclear on your position - are you saying they are liars?



You could say something constructive, something that might take us towards a solution maybe?

You're simply looking for an argument.

magicbastarder

Church on Tuesday wrote: »

Or better still, you go with her next time sure and have a word with these lads.

wow.
so i have to go with her every time she would go out jogging? that's your solution? and you think that would help anyway? 'dear sir, i think your language is uncouth and unwanted, and you should have greater respect for the fairer sex'?

to be fair, you're an optimist, and that's to be welcomed.



but get this - she doesn't *have* to go out jogging, and shouldn't *have* to put up with that ****. so she found other ways of keeping fit. but she shouldn't have to.

i'm just a little slack jawed that so much response to the testimonies of the women in the original report and the other posters who have reported similar here is not to get angry or find fault with the reptiles (who yes, are men), but to find fault with the *women* who change the way they go about their day so they're less exposed to these scumbags.

and i'm enjoying the irony of people who take offence at men being blamed (not necessarily saying that's you, per se), but then tell women that they should grow a thicker skin and not take offence.

Sittingpretty

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

They didn't say it was 'pandemic'. They said it happens often enough to put them off cycling.


I'm a bit unclear on your position - are you saying they are liars?

I didn’t say they said it was a pandemic. I said I wouldn’t say it was/is.

Nor did I call them liars. Feel free to rely on anecdotal evidence of a handful of teens if you wish.

Take your words out of my mouth and dismount.

work

cnocbui wrote: »

The anti helmet thing of a lot of cyclists on boards is ridiculous. ...... Anti-helmeters are thick, and even thicker after they get their deserved head injury.

deserved head Injury......you should be proud of yourself....so cyclist deserve to be run over do they...it should be normal....and no helmet means you actually deserve it!!!!!
You are a disgrace and an embarrassment, nobody deserves this

Church on Tuesday

magicbastarder wrote: »

wow.
so i have to go with her every time she would go out jogging? that's your solution? and you think that would help anyway? 'dear sir, i think your language is uncouth and unwanted, and you should have greater respect for the fairer sex'?

to be fair, you're an optimist, and that's to be welcomed.



but get this - she doesn't *have* to go out jogging, and shouldn't *have* to put up with that ****. so she found other ways of keeping fit. but she shouldn't have to.

i'm just a little slack jawed that so much response to the testimonies of the women in the original report and the other posters who have reported similar here is not to get angry or find fault with the reptiles (who yes, are men), but to find fault with the *women* who change the way they go about their day so they're less exposed to these scumbags.

and i'm enjoying the irony of people who take offence at men being blamed (not necessarily saying that's you, per se), but then tell women that they should grow a thicker skin and not take offence.

That's a whole lotta outrage right there.

Why not have a word with them? It's what I would do. Say you don't appreciate their behavior and that should have made them change their attitude.

It's your wife's business if she wants to jog or not, not mine. She nor any other woman or man should not have to put up with harassment of any kind and in an ideal world it wouldn't happen and yet it's something that happens all the time.

This is not an ideal world.

And it will continue to happen. You can't just wish this stuff away.

Education is almost always the key in terms of teaching kids particular healthy positive attitudes at a young age. Some will go along with it, some won't.

There are ****ty people out there. Either you A. ignore them or B. challenge them.

So the best thing to do in that incident with your wife is for her to either not give a toss, you have a word with the men in question or find an alternative exercise regimen and outlet.

Greyfox

magicbastarder wrote: »

but then tell women that they should grow a thicker skin and not take offence.

There been told this because theres feck all that can be done about isolated incidents of some men been ars*holes. The problem with the article is it blames all men for something a minority of d*ckheads do and when a woman stops cycling or jogging because of them there letting these men win

AndrewJRenko

Church on Tuesday wrote: »

[/B]

You're simply looking for an argument.

I'm simply looking for teenage girls to be able to cycle to school without being harassed.

Sittingpretty wrote: »

I didn’t say they said it was a pandemic. I said I wouldn’t say it was/is.

Nor did I call them liars. Feel free to rely on anecdotal evidence of a handful of teens if you wish.

Take your words out of my mouth and dismount.

If you want to get pernickety, I didn't say that you said that they said it was a pandemic.



It's more than 'anecdotal evidence'. It is a highlight from formal research.

Church on Tuesday wrote: »

That's a whole lotta outrage right there.

Why not have a word with them? It's what I would do. Say you don't appreciate their behavior and that should have made them change their attitude.

It's your wife's business if she wants to jog or not, not mine. She nor any other woman or man should not have to put up with harassment of any kind and in an ideal world it wouldn't happen and yet it's something that happens all the time.

This is not an ideal world.

And it will continue to happen. You can't just wish this stuff away.

Education is almost always the key in terms of teaching kids particular healthy positive attitudes at a young age. Some will go along with it, some won't.

There are ****ty people out there. Either you A. ignore them or B. challenge them.

So the best thing to do in that incident with your wife is for her to either not give a toss, you have a word with the men in question or find an alternative exercise regimen and outlet.

That's right, you can't just wish it away - but you can action it away. How about YOU challenge them, instead of expecting an adult women to bring her husband with her?

Greyfox wrote: »

There been told this because theres feck all that can be done about isolated incidents of some men been ars*holes. The problem with the article is it blames all men for something a minority of d*ckheads do and when a woman stops cycling or jogging because of them there letting these men win

Where exactly in the article does it blame 'all men'?

Greyfox

Greyfox wrote: »

There been told this because theres feck all that can be done about isolated incidents of some men been ars*holes. The problem with the article is it blames all men for something a minority of d*ckheads do and when a woman stops cycling or jogging because of them there letting these men win

maybe men could do something other than shrug and say i don't see it/not my problem/why did she stop jogging/why didn't she stop jogging when she was harassed of course she was attacked what do you expect/men's behaviour is women's fault

mind boggling