Beef strike II what's a fair base price for the Autumn for R=3= steers?

Buford T. Justice XIX

CloughCasey1 wrote: »

So labelling non Irish products as Bord Bia is also optional?

Yeah, it seems to be. I posted a link yesterday about the incorrect labels being used for Bord Bia approved beef found for sale in Limerick.

Does anybody in Bord Bia actually check the labels from a random sample of products for sale or are the packs self certified by the packing company?

Because right now, it certainly seems that self certification of compliance seems to be the norm in the industry.

CloughCasey1

wrangler wrote: »

Have you proof of that or is it more of beef plans effort to destroy our markets

Like yourself I'm only a stupid cnut of a farmer. How could i prove anything. But from what we are learning about what's going on over the last few weeks it looks like Bord Bia is another cohort of the beef industry and not what it says on the tin.

CloughCasey1

Buford T. Justice VI wrote: »

Yeah, it seems to be. I posted a link yesterday about the incorrect labels being used for Bord Bia approved beef found for sale in Limerick.

Does anybody in Bord Bia actually check the labels from a random sample of products for sale or are the packs self certified by the packing company?

Because right now, it certainly seems that self certification of compliance seems to be the norm in the industry.

Stinks to high heaven. And if Rangler and all his like minded buddies took off their blinkers they might see around them and stop with this tunnel vision. We we have so many 100s of 1000s of tonnes of beef being exported every year as origin green. I wonder how much of that beef was imported first??

grassroot1

wrangler wrote: »

I can't get the criticising of Bord bia, their job is promotion, They bring over the buyers, they can't put a gun to their heads to buy if the product isn't right/ too dear, They do promotions across Europe also.
They've set a quality standard that the buyers accept, it doesn't matter whether the farmers like it or not. I know guys here that deal directly with supermarkets and it's not simple. and after all, QA is optional same as air conditioning on a car

Bord Bia certification is now a licence to produce, it enforces way beyond its remit
eg health and safety. They told us the 30 months was an issue for the retailers it is not.they have certified plants in N.I WHO PAID THEM FOR THAT?
There is no other organisation providing the same certification which is anti competitive.
Competition authority me eye

wrangler

CloughCasey1 wrote: »

Stinks to high heaven. And if Rangler and all his like minded buddies took off their blinkers they might see around them and stop with this tunnel vision. We we have so many 100s of 1000s of tonnes of beef being exported every year as origin green. I wonder how much of that beef was imported first??

I don't see much point in jumping up and down if you can't get proof, you could say the farmers are equally as bad.
You can bad mouth everything about farming if you wanted to too if there was no requirement for proof, A neighbour tried to sell a house here lately, the buyer tested the well, found Ecoli, sale fell through, Farmers round here putting out slurry are suspects even though it likely came from septic tank and there's four septic tanks within 50 mtrs of the well.
And now there's Dockstar and MCPA in the lakes around here, the more you examine farming the less you'll like it'
Farmers using antibiotics is another ''concession'' that shouldn't be if you're getting particular

foundation10

Buford T. Justice VI wrote: »

Yeah, it seems to be. I posted a link yesterday about the incorrect labels being used for Bord Bia approved beef found for sale in Limerick.

Does anybody in Bord Bia actually check the labels from a random sample of products for sale or are the packs self certified by the packing company?

Because right now, it certainly seems that self certification of compliance seems to be the norm in the industry.

Bord Bia have been found out in the last few weeks. Their incompetence has been brought to the fore by initially stating the market required <30mths spec which was rubbished. How can we have confidence in an organisation tasked with promoting our product when they don't even know what the market requirements are. Their senior executives need to be probed and challenges by the Dail committee, if they are not up for the job they need to be replaced.

wrangler

grassroot1 wrote: »

Bord Bia certification is now a licence to produce, it enforces way beyond its remit
eg health and safety. They told us the 30 months was an issue for the retailers it is not.they have certified plants in N.I WHO PAID THEM FOR THAT?
There is no other organisation providing the same certification which is anti competitive.
Competition authority me eye

They weren't allowed do the certification unless it was open to every factory in the EU to apply

CloughCasey1

wrangler wrote: »

I don't see much point in jumping up and down if you can't get proof, you could say the farmers are equally as bad.
You can bad mouth everything about farming if you wanted to too if there was no requirement for proof, A neighbour tried to sell a house here lately, the buyer tested the well, found Ecoli, sale fell through, Farmers round here putting out slurry are suspects even though it likely came from septic tank and there's four septic tanks within 50 mtrs of the well.
And now there's Dockstar and MCPA in the lakes around here, the more you examine farming the less you'll like it'
Farmers using antibiotics is another ''concession'' that shouldn't be if you're getting particular

You wouldn't be one for jumping up and down alright.

wrangler

CloughCasey1 wrote: »

You wouldn't be one for jumping up and down alright.

You've no proof so, This Badmouthing has to be putting doubts in customers minds, Some farmers now have little regard for their customers and all farmers will now pay the price

Robson99

grassroot1 wrote: »

Bord Bia certification is now a licence to produce, it enforces way beyond its remit
eg health and safety. They told us the 30 months was an issue for the retailers it is not.they have certified plants in N.I WHO PAID THEM FOR THAT?
There is no other organisation providing the same certification which is anti competitive.
Competition authority me eye

I wonder could I apply to be Red Tractor approved ?? Isnt that the NI UK equivelant. Could send me cattle up north to be processed

Tileman

Beef plan on radio this morning calling for one factory to quote base price with the new producer group to solve the impasse.

I says

Thank fcuk yer all not in the pub there’d be some shapes thrown

grassroot1

wrangler wrote: »

They weren't allowed do the certification unless it was open to every factory in the EU to apply

Thats fair enough I did not know that does the factory pay for the certification?

CloughCasey1

wrangler wrote: »

You've no proof so, This Badmouthing has to be putting doubts in customers minds, Some farmers now have little regard for their customers and all farmers will now pay the price

Can you prove your side of the argument either?

CloughCasey1

I says wrote: »

Thank fcuk yer all not in the pub there’d be some shapes thrown

Ara keyboard warriors have time to think. I better get back to wrk so i can afford to farm and pay for Larry's dinner.

Dozer1

the more I read on this thread the more i think of this

"God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, Courage to change the things I can, and the Wisdom to know the difference"

There is corruption and a deception in all walks of life, they just call it a different name..business.

Whether the industry falls now of in 10 years it doesn't matter, the successors for beef and dairy farming are few and far between, as Kevin McStay said on primetime last night the country is moving east.

boggerman1

Tileman wrote: »

Beef plan on radio this morning calling for one factory to quote base price with the new producer group to solve the impasse.

Beef plan guy when asked about lads at protests with their faces covered dodged the question completely.they have created a monster and can't put it out now.its time for the silent majority to call a halt to these protest.it was never going to achieve a massive increase in the base price

Bass Reeves

It interesting to see all the suit's starting to line up. All saying they support farmers but..... they want lads to look at the agreement again and allow the processor's get going again. Had it myself lately. Last Friday the accountant was on about farmers protesting not being finisher's. I asked him if he could knock 15% off my bill. He. Started on about costs. I pointed that I had costs as well and so had the rest of lads protesting and processor's had cut out money by 15%.

Feed rep the same when paying him on Monday was asking him the price of a ration and told him it was 40 euro too expensive . Nobody could produce it for that. Just pointed out that this was the way processor's work.

Lads cribbing about the effect on others need to listen. This is a processor issue to solve now. No more talking no more BS. Last Fridiy I was for stepping down when talks started and giving negotiation a chance. I delighted I was overruled by others. This goes the whole way now. It might as well go down the tube now as two years time.

yosemitesam1

longgonesilver wrote: »

IFA and more of the organisations tried to get this practise changed for years but failed. Revenue should pay the refunds directly to the farmer.

What is the French system?

The current system costs the factories money. You'd be waiting for your refund a lot longer if it was done direct with revenue

Panch18

boggerman1 wrote: »

Beef plan guy when asked about lads at protests with their faces covered dodged the question completely.they have created a monster and can't put it out now.its time for the silent majority to call a halt to these protest.it was never going to achieve a massive increase in the base price

Well said

longgonesilver

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

The current system costs the factories money. You'd be waiting for your refund a lot longer if it was done direct with revenue

They just claim it back from revenue. You might be waiting till the end of the month but with computerised systems it should come through fast enough.

CloughCasey1

Panch18 wrote: »

Well said

Are you satisfied supplying cattle at 3.45 per kg base price.

Panch18

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

The current system costs the factories money. You'd be waiting for your refund a lot longer if it was done direct with revenue

As I’ve mentioned several times, all logic is gone out the window, if it was even there to start with

Bullocks

wrangler wrote: »

Bullocks wrote: »

Ya I know. Bord Bia always seemed like a painful useless quango to me. I never joined mainly because the mart gets most of our stock. I'm not gone on the ongoing protests right now but I was delighted to see lads giving the BB tent a bit of hassle. It was well deserved.
I think the focus should shift from processors to dept of ag offices, BB offices and and definitely Creeds door

I can't get the criticising of Bord bia, their job is promotion, They bring over the buyers, they can't put a gun to their heads to buy if the product isn't right/ too dear, They do promotions across Europe also.
They've set a quality standard that the buyers accept, it doesn't matter whether the farmers like it or not. I know guys here that deal directly with supermarkets and it's not simple. and after all, QA is optional same as air conditioning on a car

I feel that they don't open up markets that aren't already there . And I think they pass too much of a burden on the farmer that he doesn't get paid for where as its a great sell for the supermakets and processors to add value going out the gate .

coolshannagh28

The strike has opened a can of worms , it has emphasised the divide between Dublin and rural Ireland but also the divide between the individual and the corporation who Ireland as an entity depends on for a living . There is an important debate here which is reflected in the rise of the Gilletes Jaunes in France , Trump in America and Brexit in the UK , it seems possible that the farmers strike is the beginning of the revolt against the injustices of the recession,corporatism, globalism, overregulation and taxation in Ireland, the future could be very interesting if the momentum is maintained.

Panch18

CloughCasey1 wrote: »

Are you satisfied supplying cattle at 3.45 per kg base price.

Of course not, but I’m realistic enough to know a few things

1 is that 90% of our beef is exported so foreign markets are vitally important

2 it’s is obvious that beef price is extremely week all across Europe, so I don’t know how anybody could expect Ireland price to be good

3 is that focusing on Irish retailers will achieve nothing to help farmers achieve a higher price as they account for such a small proportion of Irish beef sales

4 is that the industry in Ireland needs to change, even more so on the producer side than anywhere

5 is that there is absolutely nothing different about the beef market now than there has been for the last 10, 20 or even 50 years. Larry and co have always been absolute fickers to deal with, always have been and always will. The price is ****e now, it have been in the past and will be in the future. You either survive or you change

6 is that brexit is a train barrelling down the tunnel of Irish farming going to cause untold destruction. And yet you guys pick the lead up to it to start this strike. The very time that beef farmers need to be getting their ducks in a row to have some hope of survival. But it seems that you cause are determined to **** it up even more than boris will. Something for you guys to be proud of

Panch18

longgonesilver wrote: »

They just claim it back from revenue. You might be waiting till the end of the month but with computerised systems it should come through fast enough.

Fairly obvious you’ve not had to many dealings with revenue in your lifetime

Gawddawggonnit

longgonesilver wrote: »

IFA and more of the organisations tried to get this practise changed for years but failed. Revenue should pay the refunds directly to the farmer.

What is the French system?

Any business/individual/entrepreneur that turns over more than €15k has to register for vat.
There’s a special system for the self employed called auto-entrepreneur that allows a turn over if €25k before needing to register, but need to do quarterly returns...

The vat rebate is a lucrative subsidy/grant given to farmers but it’s now in the hands of beef/milk processors. That needs to stop.

Yes you’d have to wait a couple of weeks to get your vat subsidy directly from revenue but at least you’d have it for yourself.
Quoting prices vat inc is solely an Irish foible that serves everyone but the farmer.

Bass Reeves

Panch18 wrote: »

Of course not, but I’m realistic enough to know a few things

1 is that 90% of our beef is exported so foreign markets are vitally important

2 it’s is obvious that beef price is extremely week all across Europe, so I don’t know how anybody could expect Ireland price to be good

3 is that focusing on Irish retailers will achieve nothing to help farmers achieve a higher price as they account for such a small proportion of Irish beef sales

4 is that the industry in Ireland needs to change, even more so on the producer side than anywhere

5 is that there is absolutely nothing different about the beef market now than there has been for the last 10, 20 or even 50 years. Larry and co have always been absolute fickers to deal with, always have been and always will. The price is ****e now, it have been in the past and will be in the future. You either survive or you change

6 is that brexit is a train barrelling down the tunnel of Irish farming going to cause untold destruction. And yet you guys pick the lead up to it to start this strike. The very time that beef farmers need to be getting their ducks in a row to have some hope of survival. But it seems that you cause are determined to **** it up even more than boris will. Something for you guys to be proud of

Bla bla bla bla........I am all right jack

wrangler

Bullocks wrote: »

I feel that they don't open up markets that aren't already there . And I think they pass too much of a burden on the farmer that he doesn't get paid for where as its a great sell for the supermakets and processors to add value going out the gate .

It must be 5 years since we had the chinese here on the farm, you can't put a gun to their head to come back.
That time Bord bia drove them around Ireland to different farms and factories, I remember being amused that they went away from our place thinking every sheep farmer tagged their lambs at birth. Why would I disiilusion them
Passing QA isn't difficult. A lot of whingeing going on about it that it doesn't deserve