Beef strike II what's a fair base price for the Autumn for R=3= steers?

Never wrestle with pigs

wrangler wrote: »

Public services don't deserve our taxes anyway, What's your problem, do you want all farmers to register for VAT......This is more of the Beef Plan rubbish, have ye's not done enough harm yet to ordinary farmers , Ye are really turning the knife in them by making their Vat refund illegal.
A farmer actually worried about tax evasion.....and in Ireland as well, I've seen it all now pfffft

Non registered vat was designed for small farmers. It's a zero game. It's not designed for huge beef/poultry lots taking advantage and claiming thousands of euros of vat ex sale's.

alps

Never wrestle with pigs wrote: »

Vat scam that the feedlots, IFA, Government, and Larry are all together scamming the system. EU courts are moving to change it though. French pig farmers recently won a case against the Germans for the same scam.

What are you on about?

This release seems to suggest that Germany need to increase the Vat rebate...

At least we have the IFA to review and lobby for updating of our rate on a constant basis.

What scam are you on about?

Never wrestle with pigs

alps wrote: »

What are you on about?

This release seems to suggest that Germany need to increase the Vat rebate...

At least we have the IFA to review and lobby for updating of our rate on a constant basis.

What scam are you on about?

The large scale are using the flat rate scheme, this has a threshold of seventy two thousand. This was designed for small farmers to cut out the administration difficulty. It was not designed for large scale business. They are getting their %5.2 vat back on ALL sales. Ie animals sold. Large scale feedlots turning out thousands of cattle are gaining a competitive advantage illegally by claiming back millions in vat they are not entitled to.

The European commission got onto the Irish revenue in 2016 about it and they admitted there was a problem and they would fix it. The didn't. Now the European commission are going to take a heavy fist to Irish revenue (who are involved in this too) like they did to Germany. This will level the playing field. They have another dodge going on supplying themselves with meal and charging themselves huge money for it just to get the larger vat return on it.

Quantum Erasure

foundation10 wrote: »

Especially the wording of his last paragraph of his open letter and using words like "self harm" on the radio this morning its beggars belief.

reminds me of an episode of Pointless from a few years ago, can't find the clip on youtube but found the transcript

Alexander: We gave 100 people 100 seconds to name as many words ending in ...ARM as they could.
...

Contestant: It might be a risk. I'm going to go for selfharm.

Alexander: OK, you're hoping that's correct. You're hoping that's one word.

Contestant: Yes. Yeah.

Alexander: Self-harm. Let's see if it's right, and if it is, let's see how many people said self-harm.

Bad luck, Sophie! Bad luck. That's the right sort of risk to take, but I'm afraid it's an incorrect answer. That scores you 100 points and takes your total up to 132. Bad luck.
Richard.

Richard: Yeah, sorry Sophie. Hyphenated.

Self-harm which is what you have to do if you're moving from the country to the city.

Alexander: Y-y-es.....!

Richard: Sell farm, yeah.

Alexander: Yeah, that took me all of a minute to get. Very good.

Panch18

wrangler wrote: »

Public services don't deserve our taxes anyway, What's your problem, do you want all farmers to register for VAT......This is more of the Beef Plan rubbish, have ye's not done enough harm yet to ordinary farmers , Ye are really turning the knife in them by making their Vat refund illegal.
A farmer actually worried about tax evasion.....and in Ireland as well, I've seen it all now pfffft

You couldn’t make this **** up I’ll tell you

Panch18

Never wrestle with pigs wrote: »

The large scale are using the flat rate scheme, this has a threshold of seventy two thousand. This was designed for small farmers to cut out the administration difficulty. It was not designed for large scale business. They are getting their %5.2 vat back on ALL sales. Ie animals sold. Large scale feedlots turning out thousands of cattle are gaining a competitive advantage illegally by claiming back millions in vat they are not entitled to.

The European commission got onto the Irish revenue in 2016 about it and they admitted there was a problem and they would fix it. The didn't. Now the European commission are going to take a heavy fist to Irish revenue (who are involved in this too) like they did to Germany. This will level the playing field. They have another dodge going on supplying themselves with meal and charging themselves huge money for it just to get the larger vat return on it.

Wow you guys are ****ing dangerous do you know that, ****ing dangerous

It seems to me yer only intention is to **** everything up for everybody

Beef plan movement is going to be the single biggest destructive factor in Irish Agri history by the time this is over

wrangler

Panch18 wrote: »

Wow you guys are ****ing dangerous do you know that, ****ing dangerous

It seems to me yer only intention is to **** everything up for everybody

Beef plan movement is going to be the single biggest destructive factor in Irish Agri history by the time this is over

+1
They'll destroy farming ,
Reporting tax evasion is a scab in my books.
There's the height of begrudgery at those gates now.
Those guys have their knives in anyone better off than themselves...farmers or not.
THere's huge concessions out there fro farmers and they're going to bring them all under the spotlight

Muckit

Have you the dogs walked already?

Bass Reeves

Muckit wrote: »

Have you the dogs walked already?

If he has not I hope they have ear plugs

wrangler

Muckit wrote: »

Have you the dogs walked already?

Naw, 7 -8 is breakfast and Boards......high pressure life this

lalababa

The beef plan movement is probably the most proactive, energetic, logical, and largest farmer movement I've seen in my lifetime. Its the first time something has shaken things up as farmers have been getting killed by a thousand cuts. Been screwed by big business & government. All across Europe & the globe. Once cartels get hold they can dictate price. A pure race to the bottom, in 1st place is greed, 2nd is growth & profitability, 3rd is western agressive capitalism.
Let's turn the Irish beef scene into the American model. With massive feed lots and one or two people working there with a big dozer.
You get people saying that this is progress & we have to compete. Make sure your kids get a degree and f**k off to New York, so I'm alright Jack.
We are only competing with ourselves.

Muckit

What's the story with the QA? How or who funds that? Is it Board Bia or the factory?

If it's Board Bia then how are they going to fund the top ups to bonuses? So many questions..

Panch18

wrangler wrote: »

+1
They'll destroy farming ,
Reporting tax evasion is a scab in my books.
There's the height of begrudgery at those gates now.
Those guys have their knives in anyone better off than themselves...farmers or not.
THere's huge concessions out there fro farmers and they're going to bring them all under the spotlight

Bitterness and stupidity are a dangerous combination that they have in absolute abundance.

blue5000

wrangler wrote: »

Naw, 7 -8 is breakfast and Boards......high pressure life this

You're on overtime now:D

Bass Reeves

wrangler wrote: »

Public services don't deserve our taxes anyway, What's your problem, do you want all farmers to register for VAT......This is more of the Beef Plan rubbish, have ye's not done enough harm yet to ordinary farmers , Ye are really turning the knife in them by making their Vat refund illegal.
A farmer actually worried about tax evasion.....and in Ireland as well, I've seen it all now pfffft

I think you should read the screen shot. I do not have an issue with flat rate vat but It seems where the issue is that it was supposed to be used only where it was considered an administrative burden to smaller farmers

alps wrote: »

What are you on about?

This release seems to suggest that Germany need to increase the Vat rebate...

At least we have the IFA to review and lobby for updating of our rate on a constant basis.

What scam are you on about?

I imagine taht the flat rate is flat accross the whole industry bt this an advanatge to larger farmer and smaller farmers would get a high rate if it applied to them only. Like i posted earler I have no issue with it

Panch18 wrote: »

Wow you guys are ****ing dangerous do you know that, ****ing dangerous

It seems to me yer only intention is to **** everything up for some

Beef plan movement is going to be the single biggest destructive factor in Irish Agri history by the time this is over

I corrected that for you. This is the issue with a system that is overloaded with benefits for a selected group. When changes come they come harder and faster than lads like. The vat rebate was already highlighted regarding the chicken Industry a few years ago. It seems this is in the pipeline anyway nothing to do with beef plan.

Beefplan is only a reaction to a system imbalance

wrangler wrote: »

+1
They'll destroy farming ,
Reporting tax evasion is a scab in my books.
There's the height of begrudgery at those gates now.
Those guys have their knives in anyone better off than themselves...farmers or not.
THere's huge concessions out there fro farmers and they're going to bring them all under the spotlight

That is a bit over the top wrangler. Nobody reported anything rather someone highlighted an issue that is in train at the moment. The problem with any imbalanced system where a large number are disadvantaged so a select minority can benefit is that soon than later the wheels fall off the bus.

Muckit

lalababa wrote: »

You get people saying that this is progress & we have to compete. Make sure your kids get a degree and f**k off to New York, so I'm alright Jack.
We are only competing with ourselves.

You can even see the divide here in our own boards farm g community. You would think that everyone would be behind the protests. That it would be logical to fight back when the margin has been squeezed back to nothing with the quotes being offered to the ordinary farmer.

No there are the few that see themselves on a different level. Above everyone else. Unity? Hell no. I don't have to stand with you. We're the factory pets. But it'll turn like China yet and even the top dog will eventually get thrown into the wok!!

Panch18

lalababa wrote: »

The beef plan movement is probably the most proactive, energetic, logical, and largest farmer movement I've seen in my lifetime. Its the first time something has shaken things up as farmers have been getting killed by a thousand cuts. Been screwed by big business & government. All across Europe & the globe. Once cartels get hold they can dictate price. A pure race to the bottom, in 1st place is greed, 2nd is growth & profitability, 3rd is western agressive capitalism.
Let's turn the Irish beef scene into the American model. With massive feed lots and one or two people working there with a big dozer.
You get people saying that this is progress & we have to compete. Make sure your kids get a degree and f**k off to New York, so I'm alright Jack.
We are only competing with ourselves.

The irony is that you guys in the protests are the very ones that are applying the “I’m alright jack” attitude to it’s highest level. You are ****ing up an entire industry for everybody because you guys have finally woken up to the fact that sucklers is a dead end game. What’s more is you are planning on bring beef, dairy and anything else with ye.

If that’s not the height of I’m alright Jack I don’t know what it is

One thing is for sure there will be more part time farmers after beef plan than there was before it

kerryjack

lalababa wrote: »

The beef plan movement is probably the most proactive, energetic, logical, and largest farmer movement I've seen in my lifetime. Its the first time something has shaken things up as farmers have been getting killed by a thousand cuts. Been screwed by big business & government. All across Europe & the globe. Once cartels get hold they can dictate price. A pure race to the bottom, in 1st place is greed, 2nd is growth & profitability, 3rd is western agressive capitalism.
Let's turn the Irish beef scene into the American model. With massive feed lots and one or two people working there with a big dozer.
You get people saying that this is progress & we have to compete. Make sure your kids get a degree and f**k off to New York, so I'm alright Jack.
We are only competing with ourselves.

You don't have to go that route cut back and draw every every penny you can from Europe. be more sustainable sit back and relax keep a few hardy stock that that will practically look after themselves. keep a few hens and grow some veg, turn an outhouse in to air B&B and talk ****te to a few tourists that are trying to escape the rat race for a few days.

Panch18

Bass Reeves wrote: »

I think you should read the screen shot. I do not have an issue with flat rate vat but It seems where the issue is that it was supposed to be used only where it was considered an administrative burden to smaller farmers





I imagine taht the flat rate is flat accross the whole industry bt this an advanatge to larger farmer and smaller farmers would get a high rate if it applied to them only. Like i posted earler I have no issue with it



I corrected that for you. This is the issue with a system that is overloaded with benefits for a selected group. When changes come they come harder and faster than lads like. The vat rebate was already highlighted regarding the chicken Industry a few years ago. It seems this is in the pipeline anyway nothing to do with beef plan.

Beefplan is only a reaction to a system imbalance




That is a bit over the top wrangler. Nobody reported anything rather someone highlighted an issue that is in train at the moment. The problem with any imbalanced system where a large number are disadvantaged so a select minority can benefit is that soon than later the wheels fall off the bus.

Bla bla bla, Differnet day same **** coming

Nothing good will come from this vat thing let me tell you, and you know damn well it’s true but you’re too ****ing engrained to say it

Tileman

New legal challenge on beef plan movement by dawn meats last night. According to Agriland

foundation10

Tileman wrote: »

New legal challenge on beef plan movement by dawn meats last night. According to Agriland

Well this only entrench the protest more so I am afraid. What do they expect to achieve by going down the legal route again. Wonder will the minister ask them to take a step back.....i have my doubts!

Bass Reeves

Panch18 wrote: »

Bla bla bla, Differnet day same **** coming

Nothing good will come from this vat thing let me tell you, and you know damn well it’s true but you’re too ****ing engrained to say it

Absolutely top class posting really insightful.

foundation10

sjb25 wrote: »

Kicked off at Bord bias tent security called

Dont agree that this was the place to attack Bord Bia as essentially the lower tiered staff would have been put out by Bord Bia and not top management. What I think should happen with Bord Bia is they need to be called before the Dail Committee asap and asked to explain themselves and their poor performance as an agency. They need to be called out and the hard questions asked of them. If they are deemed not fit for purpose then dismantle them and get a more competent body to do their work.

Water John

TMK the two Bord Bia staff were section heads, senior management.

Never wrestle with pigs

Muckit wrote: »

What's the story with the QA? How or who funds that? Is it Board Bia or the factory?

If it's Board Bia then how are they going to fund the top ups to bonuses? So many questions..

Factory paid and factory decided what it's paid on.

Siamsa Sessions

Tileman wrote: »

New legal challenge on beef plan movement by dawn meats last night. According to Agriland

Heard a report on Radio 1 earlier and even their reporter called this legal threat by factories "unhelpful". It's issued against Hugh Doyle of the Beef Plan Movement who is apparently trying to sell the agreement to farmers.

kerryjack

The government and the powers that be has created a lot of these problems down through the years, let's go back 7 or 8 years when the rest of the economy was struggling the gov at the time ramed this 2020 into us and how great its going to be and agri was great again .now they don't give a ****e about us again we are only torn on there backside. 20 years ago they started to close down a lot of local slather houses and bringing in all these new rules and regulations. red tape and more red tape.

xl500

eorna wrote: »

Cant understand why price cant be negotiated and is anti competitive..
Sure we can argue minimum wage is anti competitive.
But it needs to be there in order to avoid “back to slavery times”.
So if you have a business and are loosing money and cant pay your employees cant say.. sure there is no demand will give you 1€ /hour..
Why is the difference??

difference is if a business cannot pay minimum wage they go out of business and more efficient business pick up the trade we do not reduce minimum wage

yosemitesam1

Bass Reeves wrote: »

That is a man in suits answer to everything blame the market. Processors could not drop price fast enough in June. The big issue for the last 3-5 years in Beef in Ireland after the horse meat scandal and again we come back to that is that processors have manupilated the price by using feedlot and preferred suppliers deals. IFA in particular has ignored this and we have had former president's supporting this practice.


This is what the boys in suits are missreading

The problem is bass that it's the boys in suits that know what is actually happening in the marketplace. You don't know what is actually happening. Overestimate what the market is returning as underestimate costs is pretty much how most posters and beef plan have been working.


Feedlots and preferred suppliers have been in place for a long time. Working according to what your buyer wants instead of what suits you will get you better prices in all businesses, why should beef be any different?

Panch18

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Absolutely top class posting really insightful.

The problem with posting anything insightful to you crowd is that you just ignore it anyway because you only hear and see what you want to hear and see. There is no point in trying to apply logic when dealing with you guys because you guys have no interest in logic. That is blatantly obvious on here

so like everything associated with beef plan it’s a complete and utter waste of time

Like I said previously bitterness and stupidity are a dangerous combination, and beef plan has it in abundance