43 -63% of Africans in Ireland are unemployed

biko

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

But sure according to Sleeper, allowing a bunch of lads in to sit on the dole is a net positive for the economy!

The government could just pay the bars and bookies directly and cut out the middlemen.

Sleeper12

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

Are you going to be solely relying on the State Pension for your needs?

Do you not have a Private Pension(s) set up?

You want to rely on Pizza Delivery people, Taxi Drivers and Selfie stick sellers to fund your pension?

You can leave me out of the equation. I will draw my state pension when the time comes but not out of necessity. I have not just well provided for myself in retirement but my own children could never work another day & still live in comfort. There is more than me & my family living in Ireland though. There are plenty of nice White Irish that will never earn much more than minimum wage with no pension apart from state pension. The same people can't afford VHI. Again we need nice your foreign workers to support the health system for these people

Sleeper12

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

We need around 20,000 in IT. I'm sure we could train a boatload of the lads above to become Python developers, SQL Developers, Big Data engineers........

Or we could just allow skilled workers in from India,China etc who would immediately take on those roles and pay into the tax take straight away.

But sure according to Sleeper, allowing a bunch of lads in to sit on the dole is a net positive for the economy!

You haven't read the thread my friend. I stated that it was better for the local economy had people not fled the country. It would have been better to the local economy had they stayed even if it meant paying them dole for two years. 10s of thousands fleeing the country did nothing to improve the situation. It actually contributed to others losing their jobs

Ulysses Gaze

Sleeper12 wrote: »

You can leave me out of the equation. I will draw my state pension when the time comes but not out of necessity. I have not just well provided for myself in retirement but my own children could never work another day & still live in comfort. There is more than me & my family living in Ireland though. There are plenty of nice White Irish that will never earn much more than minimum wage with no pension apart from state pension. The same people can't afford VHI. Again we need nice your foreign workers to support the health system for these people

I could care a less where someone comes from as long as they work and contribute to the economy and fill skills gaps straight away.

Not sitting on the scratcher for years doing courses, that cost the taxpayer money, with no intention of working.

Sleeper12

recedite wrote: »

So he was there long enough to give you his whole life story was he? I hope you gave him a good tip, after delaying him so long.
He must have come in on that special visa program for highly skilled pizza delivery guys..

He is in his late 20s & Irish born. You see unlike some on here I don't look at the colour of someones skin & make assumptions. That be pretty racist now wouldn't it? :rolleyes:

Sleeper12

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

I could care a less where someone comes from as long as they work and contribute to the economy and fill skills gaps straight away.

Not sitting on the scratcher for years doing courses, that cost the taxpayer money, with no intention of working.

There we go. We are in agreement I feel the same about white Irish wasters as I do Black wasters. I have nothing but respect for someone that holds down a job.

yoke

Donald Trump wrote: »

The only shite being posted is you continuing with your virtue signalling and refusing to recognize facts dude. It's a UN report and states women in parts of Africa bear a disproportionate share of manual and labour intensive jobs there. The reason I posted the link was simply to point out where some of the perception, that some African men do not want to do labouring or manual work, comes from. It is a facet of some cultures there. I said not all, and not all within a culture. I'm just pointing out that it is a recognized fact. It doesn't fit with your narrative so you want to go on the offensive.

So your original argument was total bollocks then, that “Africans won’t do manual labour jobs”, just admit it.

The point I’ve been making from the beginning is that Africans (just like Brazilians, Indians, Chinese) would willingly take construction jobs in Ireland if they didn’t have the work visa hurdles, just like Eastern Europeans do.

HailSatan

Sleeper12 wrote: »

He is in his late 20s & Irish born. You see unlike some on here I don't look at the colour of someones skin & make assumptions. That be pretty racist now wouldn't it? :rolleyes:

Why is he so unhappy to be Irish that he identifies as South African? Or did you just see the colour of his skin and think he can't be properly Irish?

Sleeper12

recedite wrote: »

There's two types of South Africans in this country; those who are discriminated against there, and those who claim asylum and social welfare here.

Sleeper12 wrote: »

The lad that delivered my pizza last night was neither one of the above.

You do realise that we have had small numbers of African immigrants coming to Ireland since the 1800s? The asylum seekers is a new thing. There are thousands of African people living here that were never asylum seekers. We had a steady flow of African imagination (not asylum seekers) right throughout the 80s, 90 and into the 0s.

HailSatan wrote: »

Why is he so unhappy to be Irish that he identifies as South African? Or did you just see the colour of his skin and think he can't be properly Irish?

You'll see above that I never said he was south African. :pac::pac::pac:

HailSatan

Sleeper12 wrote: »

You'll see above that I never said he was south African. :pac::pac::pac:

Back pedal away man.

So in response to a post mentioning South Africans you went off on a tangent about a pizza person with no link whatsoever to South Africa.

And you say you've made enough money to retire yourself and all your children right now.

I'm sceptical tbh

Sleeper12

HailSatan wrote:

Back pedal away man.

I'll tell you what, there have been plenty of posters here today that can't read the thread. I have been misquoted several times today. Can you please post where I claimed anyone was South African. Can you please post the rules of the thread that says that we can only talk about first generation immigrants.

HailSatan

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I'll tell you what, there have been plenty of posters here today that can't read the thread. I have been misquoted several times today. Can you please post where I claimed anyone was South African. Can you please post the rules of the thread that says that we can only talk about first generation immigrants.

Back pedal away man.

So in response to a post mentioning South Africans you went off on a tangent about a pizza person with no link whatsoever to South Africa.

Sleeper12

HailSatan wrote:

Back pedal away man.

So no links then? I'm beginning to think that English might not be you first language?

Markcheese

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

Are you going to be solely relying on the State Pension for your needs?

Do you not have a Private Pension(s) set up?

You want to rely on Pizza Delivery people, Taxi Drivers and Selfie stick sellers to fund your pension?

I'll probably be doing pizza delivery for my pension, hope they're not in a rush...

HailSatan

Sleeper12 wrote: »

So no links then? I'm beginning to think that English might not be you first language?

We were just talking about it. Now you can't remember? The retiring your whole family tomorrow story is becoming increasingly unlikely.

So in response to a post mentioning South Africans you went off on a tangent about a pizza person with no link whatsoever to South Africa?

Sleeper12

HailSatan wrote:

We were just talking about it. Now you can't remember? The retiring your whole family tomorrow story is becoming increasingly unlikely.

First off I don't have to justify my pension but if you care to read back on my posting history then you will find that I have been involved in many different businesses over the last 30 odd years as well as owning commercial and domestic property.


Look you thought you were a smart allic with your comment about the delivery guy being Irish and you ended up with egg on your face because it never occurred to you that the chap is 2nd generation African and his parents first generation. The thread is about African immigrants.

Another poster made a racist comment about there only being two types of African immigrants. I was educating the poster that there is a lot more than two types of immigrants. There are very hard working immigrants that don't rely on social welfare at all. You wanting to make fun about such a thing says an awful lot about you.

HailSatan

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Look you thought you were a smart allic with your comment about the delivery guy being Irish and you ended up with egg on your face because it never occurred to you that the chap is 2nd generation African and his parents first generation. The thread is about African immigrants.

Another poster made a racist comment about there only being two types of African immigrants. I was educating the poster that there is a lot more than two types of immigrants. There are very hard working immigrants that don't rely on social welfare at all. You wanting to make fun about such a thing says an awful lot about you.

Ah I see. So you were just being disingenuous with your "I never said there was a South African" rubbish earlier.

You're like somebody caught in a lie man. Ducking and weaving, no straight answers.

Was the guy an African immigrant?

Was he South African?

Was he Irish but you don't regard him as being "real" Irish?

Sleeper12

HailSatan wrote: »

Ah I see. So you were just being disingenuous with your "I never said there was a South African" rubbish earlier.

You're like somebody caught in a lie man. Ducking and weaving, no straight answers.

Was the guy an African immigrant?

Was he South African?

Was he Irish but you don't regard him as being "real" Irish?

You thought you were smart ass but I didn't say he was south african nor did I say he wasn't. Your attempt at humor at such a serious topic fell flat. Then to try gain some credibility you question my honesty on my pension. You're not really adding anything meaningful to the thread are you?



I have grown tired toying with you so I'm dont responding to your post

HailSatan

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I'm beginning to think that English might not be you first language?

Less of the xenophobia please.

HailSatan

Sleeper12 wrote: »

You thought you were smart ass but I didn't say he was south african nor did I say he wasn't. Your attempt at humor at such a serious topic fell flat. Then to try gain some credibility you question my honesty on my pension. You're not really adding anything meaningful to the thread are you?



I have grown tired toying with you so I'm dont responding to your post

Ladies and gentlemen here we have it, Schrodingers South African.

You can pull him out for any occasion and then deny he was or wasn't any nationality or none.


You're ducking and weaving.


No straight answers.


Why? You've failed to answer simple questions many time in the last few pages. Why?

All you have is ad hominems, and xenophobic ad hominems at that. Not a sign that you had anything worthwhile to contribute is it?


Have you considered who the real bigot is here?

Was the guy an African immigrant?

Was he Irish but you don't consider him as such?

Was he South African, and perhaps some way relevant to the post you replied to?

chicorytip

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Your thinking is very old fashioned. Back in the 80s the thinking was that it was better that Irish people immigrated rather than being on the dole. This was very shot sighted. The more that left the more people lost their jobs. Its far better for the economy to have more on the dole & less leave the country. Every penny paid out on the dole gets spent within days. It gets clawed back very quickly in vat and income tax. Every few thousand that left caused dozens more to lose their job. 10 years ago young men & women left Ireland. Plumbers, carpenters, electricians etc. When the building kicked off again just a few years later we didn't have tradesmen to fill the jobs. Go to any building site now in Dublin and you will find that the vast majority of workers aren't Irish. We needed & still need to import foreign tradesmen to fill these jobs. We invested time & money training these young Irish people but we allowed other countries to benefit from our investment into these people.

In bold is what I said.

Mongfinder General wrote: »

The dole is subject to income tax?

You didn't read my statement obviously as I FIRST said the money gets spent within days. Then AFTER this the money gets clawed back in tax & VAT. At no stage did I claim that the dole is subject to VAT & tax.

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Every penny spent is subject to VAT & tax. The government get back in taxes more than half of the dole in the very week it's paid out. They get back even more as the weeks go by with knock on effects& the jobs it keeps. The money paid out on dole payments kept 10s of thousands of other Irish in jobs. The government learned from the mistakes of the 80s. Not paying enough in dole payments pushed a whole generation out of Ireland. You must have noticed that despite one of the highest dole & OAP payments in the world these were hardly touched during the tough budgets. There was good reason for this, these payments helped our local economy survive.

Mongfinder General wrote: »

So the dole isn't subject to income tax as you incorrectly stated in your original post. But the government should be taxing all income, earned or unearned. Why should non earners be able to circumvent the income tax system? They should be hit with usc, Paye, prsi, the same way everybody else is. Now is the time to absolutely horse whip these bone idle twats instead of increasing dole payments. Unemployment is less than 5%. We won't get a chance like this again as doing it when there's a 15% unemployment rate would cause civil unrest. Cash payments should be substituted in part for food stamps and clothing vouchers with deductions at source made for utilities. There are far too many people taking the piss and living off the backs of working people.

A second time you misquote me. You are being deliberately silly here.



However I do agree that all payments should be cut. My daughter is 27. When she was born a months children's allowance bought a large pack of nappies. Now if you have a few kids it can fund trips to Florida! Dole, pensions the lot all need to be cut. They need to look at freezing public service pay for a lot longer& have a serious look at public service pensions



I read posters praise European immigrants because they don't claim as much. Some very short memories on this thread. Have we already forgotten people not living in Ireland getting a cheap Ryanair flight to ireland to collect & sign on only to fly home the same day? They also claimed for children allowance for children not living in Ireland. The dole office actually had to change how they ran things & now non Irish have to regularly sign on unlike Irish people.


FG are doing exactly what FF did with risky budgets. They willl get away with it for awhile but eventually there will be forces outside Irelands control & their risky budgets will catch up on us all. It's hard to believe that they haven't learned from budget mistakes only 10 years before. We haven't had a safe budget since troika left

I don't begrudge somebody in receipt of welfare payments going on a foreign holiday once a year or owning a car used to drive the kids to school or to do the weekly shop. These "luxuries", you would find, are funded by means of credit union loans. Credit Unions are quite willing to lend to those who don't work for a living. In fact, there is even a specific, reduced rate of interest Social Welfare loan. A single mother with five mouths to feed who is claiming is not going to have anything left for extras once the monthly bills have been paid.

HailSatan

Lol, waiting for the

"I have grown tired toying with you so I'm dont responding to your post"

for you too chicory tip.


He's a great lad for convenient anecdotes and a quick back pedal once any questions are asked.

Donald Trump

yoke wrote: »

So your original argument was total bollocks then, that “Africans won’t do manual labour jobs”, just admit it.

The point I’ve been making from the beginning is that Africans (just like Brazilians, Indians, Chinese) would willingly take construction jobs in Ireland if they didn’t have the work visa hurdles, just like Eastern Europeans do.

The only "bollocks" are the quotes you make up in your own head and attribute them to someone else to try to move the goalposts in a vain attempt to not feel a bit silly.


I'm glad that you know, and have surveyed, all the Africans in Ireland. And that you have been appointed as their official spokesperson. Good for you. And you really should get onto Leo for being discriminatory and forcing certain categories of immigrants into certain types of jobs. It's very unfair that they'll give works visas to Africans to drive taxis, work in security in shops etc. but not give them ones that would allow them to work in construction. Even for the ones who have status to remain here - they need to remove that small print condition forbidding them to work in construction.




Facts are facts dude. No amount of talking out one's hole, or trying to virtue signal your way into Heaven via boards.ie will change that.

Sleeper12

chicorytip wrote:

FG are doing exactly what FF did with risky budgets. They willl get away with it for awhile but eventually there will be forces outside Irelands control & their risky budgets will catch up on us all. It's hard to believe that they haven't learned from budget mistakes only 10 years before. We haven't had a safe budget since troika left

I don't begrudge somebody in receipt of welfare payments going on a foreign holiday once a year or owning a car used to drive the kids to school or to do the weekly shop. These "luxuries", you would find, are funded by means of credit union loans. Credit Unions are quite willing to lend to those who don't work for a living. In fact, there is even a specific, reduced rate of interest Social Welfare loan. A single mother with five mouths to feed who is claiming is not going to have anything left for extras once the monthly bills have been paid.[/quote]

One of the most ridiculous statements I've read.

No one living totally on social welfare should be able to afford 10 days in florida any year let alone every year.

Do you suppose that the credit union expects her to repay the loan or do you think that they gift her the money every few years to replace the car? The point I'm getting to here is that saving up for the car or borrowing the money for the car doesn't really make much difference. She is still buying the car.


If people whose only income is social welfare can afford these things then we are obviously over paying them. Don't get me started on how she can have 4 kids and the social welfare can't recover any costs from the fathers

Donald Trump

Sleeper12 wrote: »

One of the most ridiculous statements I've read.

No one living totally on social welfare should be able to afford 10 days in florida any year let alone every year.

Do you suppose that the credit union expects her to repay the loan or do you think that they gift her the money every few years to replace the car? The point I'm getting to here is that saving up for the car or borrowing the money for the car doesn't really make much difference. She is still buying the car.


If people whose only income is social welfare can afford these things then we are obviously over paying them. Don't get me started on how she can have 4 kids and the social welfare can't recover any costs from the fathers

I don't mean to pick on you but I seriously can't believe you are still trying to argue two contradictory things.

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Every penny paid out on the dole gets spent within days. It gets clawed back very quickly in vat and income tax.

But at the same time you complain that it is too high.



Which is it? Is it too high or is it just enough so that it is spent in its entirety almost immediately?

HailSatan

Donald Trump wrote: »

But at the same time you complain that it is too high.



Which is it? Is it too high or is it just enough so that it is spent in its entirety almost immediately?

Schrodinger's dole.

Schrodinger's South African.

There's a lot of cognitive dissonance going on in that lad's head. We're probably doing him a favour in the long run by holding up a mirror to it.

Donald Trump

HailSatan wrote: »

Schrodinger's dole.

Schrodinger's South African.

There's a lot of cognitive dissonance going on in that lad's head. We're probably doing him a favour in the long run by holding up a mirror to it.

Both are somewhat valid individual arguments or viewpoints. I just can't understand strongly holding both at the same time

Sleeper12

Donald Trump wrote:

I don't mean to pick on you but I seriously can't believe you are still trying to argue two contradictory things.

Donald Trump wrote:

Which is it? Is it too high or is it just enough so that it is spent in its entirety almost immediately?

You really have a hard on for this.

Please post a link where I say that there is just enough so that it is spent in its entirety almost immediately. I haven't said that. I never claimed that people need to be paid almost 200 per week in order for it to be spent in its entirety. I believe that if you pay them even more than the 200 they will spend this almost immediately too.

I have posted several times in response to your repeated same question. Having a thousand people on the dole of even 140 per week for two years is better for the economy than the thousand people fleeing the country for 10 years.

I'll go one better. Even if they were only paid 100 per week it would be better for the economy than if they left the country. If you give someone on the dole an extra 50 euro most will spend it that week. If you give someone on the dole 50 euro a week less they will still spend it almost immediately.

I'm wondering if you are confusing someone getting lone parents & children allowance for four children with someone on the dole? They are both social welfare payments but they are totally different too. You shouldn't confuse these two.

I can't make my reply any more child like to help you understand. If you don't get it after me replying to your repeated question with the same answer then there is nothing I can do to help you. I do notice that you seem to be the only poster that can't grasp my answer

pinkyeye

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I don't begrudge somebody in receipt of welfare payments going on a foreign holiday once a year or owning a car used to drive the kids to school or to do the weekly shop. These "luxuries", you would find, are funded by means of credit union loans. Credit Unions are quite willing to lend to those who don't work for a living. In fact, there is even a specific, reduced rate of interest Social Welfare loan. A single mother with five mouths to feed who is claiming is not going to have anything left for extras once the monthly bills have been paid.

One of the most ridiculous statements I've read.

No one living totally on social welfare should be able to afford 10 days in florida any year let alone every year.

Do you suppose that the credit union expects her to repay the loan or do you think that they gift her the money every few years to replace the car? The point I'm getting to here is that saving up for the car or borrowing the money for the car doesn't really make much difference. She is still buying the car.


If people whose only income is social welfare can afford these things then we are obviously over paying them. Don't get me started on how she can have 4 kids and the social welfare can't recover any costs from the fathers[/QUOTE]

Have to admit Sleeper, I've like some of your posts but you're totally contradicting yourself all over the place here just to score points or something.

I don't get it?

na1

Rodin wrote: »

How do non-EU nationals get a visa to work if they have no qualifications?
Aren't they simply here illegally and not entitled to social welfare?

Irish Born Child?