43 -63% of Africans in Ireland are unemployed

Mongfinder General

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Your thinking is very old fashioned. Back in the 80s the thinking was that it was better that Irish people immigrated rather than being on the dole. This was very shot sighted. The more that left the more people lost their jobs. Its far better for the economy to have more on the dole & less leave the country. Every penny paid out on the dole gets spent within days. It gets clawed back very quickly in vat and income tax. Every few thousand that left caused dozens more to lose their job. 10 years ago young men & women left Ireland. Plumbers, carpenters, electricians etc. When the building kicked off again just a few years later we didn't have tradesmen to fill the jobs. Go to any building site now in Dublin and you will find that the vast majority of workers aren't Irish. We needed & still need to import foreign tradesmen to fill these jobs. We invested time & money training these young Irish people but we allowed other countries to benefit from our investment into these people.

The dole is subject to income tax?

yoke

Donald Trump wrote: »

Ah here. Go blame the UN. They produced the report. The lying manipulative bastards.



You should stop digging that particular hole as you are making it see like you can't understand basic ideas and logic. If I told you that the vast majority of nurses in Irish hospitals are female, you'd google to find a picture of a male nurse and think it disproved what I said.


Ignorance is not a defence at this stage

Stop posting sh!te and answer my simple question: Do you believe that the majority of construction workers in Africa are women?

suicide_circus

Johanna Defeated Scorecard wrote: »

Meanwhile Turkey (a potential future member) has said they'd open the floodgates to 3.5m migrants if the EU didn't pay them more cash.

Sure how is that a threat? dont we need all these migrants to pay our pensions? Migrant Crisis? More like pensions bonanza.

Sleeper12

Donald Trump wrote:

Firstly, to sleeper12, you moan about Irish (trades)people leaving and not coming back..................that is what started my interaction with you. Do you not realize that the government wanted to introduce some incentives in order to attract those kind of people back? Those are the same incentives that you rubbished and seemed glad that they were not actually put into practice. It is curious also then that you seem to be a little bitter about Ireland benefiting from importing workers it did not have to train.....so you're arguments are all over the shop. The country has almost zero construction-related apprenticeships for a decade. Very little expense on training people for those roles...and now we have a few foreign tradespeople that we got without having to pay for their training. If Paddy Mc had stayed on the dole for 8 years rather than going out to Australia and doing well for himself there, it wouldn't have changed that apprenticeship situation.

Again you miss the point. The Irish public couldn't stomach giving tax breaks to people who fled the country. Many of these handed keys back to homes they bought only two or three years before. Many of these were part of the problem. The public would not tolerate giving these tax breaks to return & the government had to give up on their ridiculous plans. There were cheaper options. As I said you'll be hard pushed to find too many Irish on building sites in Dublin but we have workers. We didn't need to give tax breaks to get these skilled workers.

You ignored the whole point of it being better for the economy if Irish people didn't flee the country. Its actually far better for the economy had they stayed in Ireland on the dole for two years. Them leaving cost others their jobs. They were part of the problem.

I have no problem with people leaving the country when things are bad. I have no problem with them coming back when things are going well. I have a major problem with the government suggesting tax breaks for when they return though. I'm not actually into tax breaks at all, but if anyone deserves a tax break then it's the guy who stayed here and helped get the country back on its feet.

Sleeper12

Mongfinder General wrote: »

The dole is subject to income tax?

Every penny spent is subject to VAT & tax. The government get back in taxes more than half of the dole in the very week it's paid out. They get back even more as the weeks go by with knock on effects& the jobs it keeps. The money paid out on dole payments kept 10s of thousands of other Irish in jobs. The government learned from the mistakes of the 80s. Not paying enough in dole payments pushed a whole generation out of Ireland. You must have noticed that despite one of the highest dole & OAP payments in the world these were hardly touched during the tough budgets. There was good reason for this, these payments helped our local economy survive.

PostWoke

suicide_circus wrote: »

Sure how is that a threat? dont we need all these migrants to pay our pensions? Migrant Crisis? More like pensions bonanza.

Erdogan just looking out for the little Irish guy all along :pac: Sounds like the QAnon conspiracy :pac:

There would be a lot less discord regarding welfare if the government would implement work orders for recipients. The state sees an ROI, can undertake projects it ordinarily claims it has no budget for which would produce growth, it's better for the recipients' mental health, they feel ownership over the running of the country, they get references for the future, I don't see a downside. I've seen this sentiment before but definitely not from the government, the whole thing probably sounds like actual work to them.

Shefwedfan

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Again you miss the point. The Irish public couldn't stomach giving tax breaks to people who fled the country. Many of these handed keys back to homes they bought only two or three years before. Many of these were part of the problem. The public would not tolerate giving these tax breaks to return & the government had to give up on their ridiculous plans. There were cheaper options. As I said you'll be hard pushed to find too many Irish on building sites in Dublin but we have workers. We didn't need to give tax breaks to get these skilled workers.

You ignored the whole point of it being better for the economy if Irish people didn't flee the country. Its actually far better for the economy had they stayed in Ireland on the dole for two years. Them leaving cost others their jobs. They were part of the problem.

I have no problem with people leaving the country when things are bad. I have no problem with them coming back when things are going well. I have a major problem with the government suggesting tax breaks for when they return though. I'm not actually into tax breaks at all, but if anyone deserves a tax break then it's the guy who stayed here and helped get the country back on its feet.

You have two brackets of people
The worker and the non worker. In these two bracket you have Irish and every other nationality in the world so nothing racist about that

The problem is the worker will work, if let go they will try to find a job, if they can’t they will go to another country and work there.....

The non worker, no matter how many jobs or opportunities they get they don’t want to work, sitting on dole is far easier and money is good...they will scrouge and rob to supplement this wage. All this rubbish removal companies etc....

Personally the ability to “earn” a huge wage from the government by firing out kids, living but not marrying your partner etc is an issue...they need to clamp down. Mostly because the non workers children are in the majority never provide anything decent to society. The way ireland is going the non worker will soon start to go past the worker and then we are all f**ked because don’t expect all those American companies to hang around a country full of wasters

kravmaga

Harvey Weinstein wrote: »

Dr Ebun Joseph talked to Ray D'Arcy on Tuesday to tell him about her research on African unemployment in Ireland. Dr. Joseph explained that the unemployment rate for Africans in Ireland is between 43% and 63%

And this was because Irish people are racist

Surprise surprise

Why would it surprise you? Doesn't surprise me at all, thought the figure would have been higher to be honest. Always seem to be on some sort of course imo.

PostWoke

kravmaga wrote: »

Always seem to be on some sort of course imo.

So accurate :pac:; how you know this?

Annasopra

Donald Trump wrote: »

Sorry to be blunt, but those posts are ridiculous.


Firstly, to sleeper12, you moan about Irish (trades)people leaving and not coming back..................that is what started my interaction with you. Do you not realize that the government wanted to introduce some incentives in order to attract those kind of people back? Those are the same incentives that you rubbished and seemed glad that they were not actually put into practice. It is curious also then that you seem to be a little bitter about Ireland benefiting from importing workers it did not have to train.....so you're arguments are all over the shop. The country has almost zero construction-related apprenticeships for a decade. Very little expense on training people for those roles...and now we have a few foreign tradespeople that we got without having to pay for their training. If Paddy Mc had stayed on the dole for 8 years rather than going out to Australia and doing well for himself there, it wouldn't have changed that apprenticeship situation.





Joeytheparrot, have a think about what you are saying. You have heard some soundbytes before about people saying how increasing social welfare can help local economies. And you have tried to be clever and extrapolate that to thinking that having a person on the dole is better for the economy than my posited alternative of a person emigrating and coming back and bringing experience and savings with them to invest/spend/pay down debt. Seriously, have a think about what you are saying and come back and let us know if you still believe what you said.

BTW, if you think that being on the dole is such a great thing for the economy, then surely you must be delighted at the main tenet of this thread - that African's are allegedly leading the way and driving forward the economy with unemployment rates approaching 64%.......perhaps we should send over a few boats to convince some more to come over if they promise to stay on the dole?





Look, I accept that some people might be touchy about the subject - especially if they spent years arse'ing about on social welfare themselves. Some had circumstances where they couldn't leave. That's fair enough. And for some, it was just handier to stay at home and collect the handy money than to up sticks and try something else to improve themselves. That's why the government runs the likes of FAS courses (or whatever it is now). Just to help those that don't have the initiative or wherewithal to do it for themselves. It's to spoonfeed certain types. Of course genuine cases get stuck and caught up in those things as well so it's a pain in the hole for those people. An African person on the dole is worth just as much as an Irish person on the dole is to the local economy. An unemployed Irish carpenter signing off the dole and fecking off to Australia for a few years is then equal to the loss of an unemployed African signing off the dole returning to his home country for a few years. You seem to think that the former would be a loss to the economy. Therefore you must surely consider the latter to be equally so? Judging by plenty of other responses on this thread, I don't think you'll have too many who agree with you!

Yes of course I believe what I said ffs.

People on the dole are given social welfare. They pretty much spend all of this in the economy. Because they spend it in the economy companies pay more vat and companies make more profits and hold onto more employees. And thus in turn these employees spend, thus more companies pay more taxes and employ more people.

Obviously if instead of paying thousands of people social welfare these prople all emigrate yes there is a cut in your government spending but there are also many other cuts, a cut in the spending of these people resulting in cuts in compsnies sales therefore therefore cuts in profits, vat, employees then a consequentisl cut in other companies profits, vat, employees and then huge government cuts in tax income.

Not answering the other trollish points you made.

Sleeper12

Shefwedfan wrote:

Personally the ability to “earn†a huge wage from the government by firing out kids, living but not marrying your partner etc is an issue...they need to clamp down. Mostly because the non workers children are in the majority never provide anything decent to society. The way ireland is going the non worker will soon start to go past the worker and then we are all f**ked because don’t expect all those American companies to hang around a country full of wasters

Forget about the banks, builders and everything else from the 0s. The biggest mistake FF made was to overpay ourselves. Dole, pensions, grants, public sector etc, etc. Our OAPs have one of the biggest state pensions in the world especially when you add in free travel, TV licence, phone rental, automatic non means tested medical card at 70 years of age. The dole is the same. It's supposed to enough to keep you going till you get a job. I see fellas on the dole going to UK football matches. They shouldn't be able to afford luxuries like that. I know a single mum of four. Doesn't work. Lives totally on state handouts yet can bring her 4 kids every year to Florida for 10 days! This includes visiting Disney and Universal. She drives a taxed and insured car. I mean WTF??? She doesn't drink or smoke but Jasus no one on lone parents should be able to afford holidays like that.

We pay ourselves way too much. This can obviously attract the wrong type of immigrant but that aside its not good to be paying Irish people this sort of money either. We need a reality check in this country. Public workers looking to go back to Celtic Tiger wages? What planet are they living on? Then they hate to talk about the generous pensions they get.

FF get a lot of flack for what was in reality a worldwide banking crisis. I think the real damage they did to the country was to overpay the population.

Galwayguy35

It's strange how people from Eastern Europe can come here, hit the ground running and find work but over half of Africans who come end up being a drain on our country.

Add to this we have a problem with second generation black gangs in parts of Dublin who have no fear of the Gardai.

The problems the UK has now will be ours in a few years.

Mongfinder General

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Every penny spent is subject to VAT & tax. The government get back in taxes more than half of the dole in the very week it's paid out. They get back even more as the weeks go by with knock on effects& the jobs it keeps. The money paid out on dole payments kept 10s of thousands of other Irish in jobs. The government learned from the mistakes of the 80s. Not paying enough in dole payments pushed a whole generation out of Ireland. You must have noticed that despite one of the highest dole & OAP payments in the world these were hardly touched during the tough budgets. There was good reason for this, these payments helped our local economy survive.

So the dole isn't subject to income tax as you incorrectly stated in your original post. But the government should be taxing all income, earned or unearned. Why should non earners be able to circumvent the income tax system? They should be hit with usc, Paye, prsi, the same way everybody else is. Now is the time to absolutely horse whip these bone idle twats instead of increasing dole payments. Unemployment is less than 5%. We won't get a chance like this again as doing it when there's a 15% unemployment rate would cause civil unrest. Cash payments should be substituted in part for food stamps and clothing vouchers with deductions at source made for utilities. There are far too many people taking the piss and living off the backs of working people.

Shefwedfan

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

It's strange how people from Eastern Europe can come here, hit the ground running and find work but over half of Africans who come end up being a drain on our country.

Add to this we have a problem with second generation black gangs in parts of Dublin who have no fear of the Gardai.

The problems the UK has now will be ours in a few years.

I have family living in Cavan....huge amount of unemployed at the moment


My nephew is looking for job. I was amazed. Apprenticeships all over the place, shops crying out for staff etc.....he had 8 interviews lined up in 48 hours....


Go down the dole office and you will be told no jobs around.....


These jobs are not crap wages either....you are talking about 12 euro an hour starting in a shop. 40 hours a week and you are coming out with 2k a month.....nothing to be shiffed at.....when I was 18 I was working 40 hours a week and I think I came out with 150 a week:mad: plus I had to pay rent etc

Donald Trump

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Yes of course I believe what I said ffs.

People on the dole are given social welfare. They pretty much spend all of this in the economy. Because they spend it in the economy companies pay more vat and companies make more profits and hold onto more employees. And thus in turn these employees spend, thus more companies pay more taxes and employ more people.

Obviously if instead of paying thousands of people social welfare these prople all emigrate yes there is a cut in your government spending but there are also many other cuts, a cut in the spending of these people resulting in cuts in compsnies sales therefore therefore cuts in profits, vat, employees then a consequentisl cut in other companies profits, vat, employees and then huge government cuts in tax income.

That's mad. You still think it is better for the country to have 95 people working and 6 on the dole than have 95 people working and only 5 on the dole. You think it is better economically for the country to have an extra person and have them on the dole plus all the associated costs to the state than to not have them in the country.

I'd say most people are glad you'll never be in a position to make decisions........ or you'd be setting up state agencies to actively recruit foreigners to bring them over on the condition that they go on the dole and stay there :pac:

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Not answering the other trollish points you made.

Lol. It would be pretty racist and intolerant to admit if you think that that if there are two neighbours on the dole, getting the same benefits, that one is helping the economy because he can apply for an Irish passport and the other is a drain because he has an African passport........

enricoh

Head across the border and i guarantee it'd be harder to get a job.
Why? Because employers up there dont have to compete with the dole. It 60 or 70 stg up there compared to e200 down here.
Our cost base is far too high down here - its needed though to pay for the parasites that wont do a tap.

recedite

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Exactly. The dole is actually a stimulus to the economy.

Hmmm... so using this logic, we can improve the economy by encouraging people give up work and sign on the dole instead.
We can do even better by encouraging social welfare recipients from the neighbouring UK to come and live in Ireland. I know there's a good few New Age type hippies living around West Cork that have come over, but surely we could advertise to attract even more of them.
Why stop there? The UK is a small market in global terms.
Africa has 1200,000,000 and most of them would love to take up the offer.
Dole for life, medical card, a university degree, and a free 5-bed house (if they can pop out 5 or 6 kids)


In a couple of years time, we're going to have the greatest economy in the world. Isn't that right Joey :pac:

Mr. teddywinkles

enricoh wrote: »

Head across the border and i guarantee it'd be harder to get a job.
Why? Because employers up there dont have to compete with the dole. It 60 or 70 stg up there compared to e200 down here.
Our cost base is far too high down here - its needed though to pay for the parasites that wont do a tap.

Always maintain that living on dole is ****e without all the extra benefits.
Trying to live on 200e is pure crap if you own your own place or have a mortgage to pay and still have lots of bills coming through the door. It's a temporary prop up. That's all.
It's the extra benefits that make it worth while to make it a lifestyle.

Donald Trump

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Again you miss the point. The Irish public couldn't stomach giving tax breaks to people who fled the country. Many of these handed keys back to homes they bought only two or three years before. Many of these were part of the problem. The public would not tolerate giving these tax breaks to return & the government had to give up on their ridiculous plans. There were cheaper options. As I said you'll be hard pushed to find too many Irish on building sites in Dublin but we have workers. We didn't need to give tax breaks to get these skilled workers.

You ignored the whole point of it being better for the economy if Irish people didn't flee the country. Its actually far better for the economy had they stayed in Ireland on the dole for two years. Them leaving cost others their jobs. They were part of the problem.

I have no problem with people leaving the country when things are bad. I have no problem with them coming back when things are going well. I have a major problem with the government suggesting tax breaks for when they return though. I'm not actually into tax breaks at all, but if anyone deserves a tax break then it's the guy who stayed here and helped get the country back on its feet.

dude, you are making excuses now and not making sense at all.


You can't simultaneously complain about people leaving and there being a deficit of tradespeople (to be replaced by foreigners we have without having had the expense of training.... as you appear to also have a problem with that too) and at the same time give out about government attempt to attract them back.


As you know "handing back the keys" is not a solution in Ireland where mortgages have full recourse. That is waffle.


It's pure begrudgery and bitterness plain and simple. You are more than welcome to stick in the mindset and thank the patriots who stayed and went on the dole, sucking the scarce resources from the rest of the people if you want. You can also believe the earth is flat if you want. I can't help you on either

Mr. teddywinkles

Shefwedfan wrote: »

You have two brackets of people
The worker and the non worker. In these two bracket you have Irish and every other nationality in the world so nothing racist about that

The problem is the worker will work, if let go they will try to find a job, if they can’t they will go to another country and work there.....

The non worker, no matter how many jobs or opportunities they get they don’t want to work, sitting on dole is far easier and money is good...they will scrouge and rob to supplement this wage. All this rubbish removal companies etc....

Personally the ability to “earn” a huge wage from the government by firing out kids, living but not marrying your partner etc is an issue...they need to clamp down. Mostly because the non workers children are in the majority never provide anything decent to society. The way ireland is going the non worker will soon start to go past the worker and then we are all f**ked because don’t expect all those American companies to hang around a country full of wasters

There's also the other side to that coin and the expectation of all workers to be highly experienced with ridiculous amounts of qualifications and education by employers.

PostWoke

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Add to this we have a problem with second generation black gangs in parts of Dublin who have no fear of the Gardai.

The problems the UK has now will be ours in a few years.

Any source on this? Not doubting you just have not come across anything to suggest that.

I also think we're a far cry, thank feck, from the insane situation in the UK, London specifically.

I do see smalls groups of first gen Irish of african backgrounds 'disturbing the peace' sometimes, but in my experience this demographic is pretty studious. It's kind of 50/50 in my experience. Remember, they have been in contact with a western european education system since they were four. They have absorbed our standards as they have been presented to them. We have far scarier native teenagers tbh. Far, far scarier. Hundreds of convictions including assaulting police officers scarier.

Sleeper12

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Your thinking is very old fashioned. Back in the 80s the thinking was that it was better that Irish people immigrated rather than being on the dole. This was very shot sighted. The more that left the more people lost their jobs. Its far better for the economy to have more on the dole & less leave the country. Every penny paid out on the dole gets spent within days. It gets clawed back very quickly in vat and income tax. Every few thousand that left caused dozens more to lose their job. 10 years ago young men & women left Ireland. Plumbers, carpenters, electricians etc. When the building kicked off again just a few years later we didn't have tradesmen to fill the jobs. Go to any building site now in Dublin and you will find that the vast majority of workers aren't Irish. We needed & still need to import foreign tradesmen to fill these jobs. We invested time & money training these young Irish people but we allowed other countries to benefit from our investment into these people.

In bold is what I said.

Mongfinder General wrote: »

The dole is subject to income tax?

You didn't read my statement obviously as I FIRST said the money gets spent within days. Then AFTER this the money gets clawed back in tax & VAT. At no stage did I claim that the dole is subject to VAT & tax.

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Every penny spent is subject to VAT & tax. The government get back in taxes more than half of the dole in the very week it's paid out. They get back even more as the weeks go by with knock on effects& the jobs it keeps. The money paid out on dole payments kept 10s of thousands of other Irish in jobs. The government learned from the mistakes of the 80s. Not paying enough in dole payments pushed a whole generation out of Ireland. You must have noticed that despite one of the highest dole & OAP payments in the world these were hardly touched during the tough budgets. There was good reason for this, these payments helped our local economy survive.

Mongfinder General wrote: »

So the dole isn't subject to income tax as you incorrectly stated in your original post. But the government should be taxing all income, earned or unearned. Why should non earners be able to circumvent the income tax system? They should be hit with usc, Paye, prsi, the same way everybody else is. Now is the time to absolutely horse whip these bone idle twats instead of increasing dole payments. Unemployment is less than 5%. We won't get a chance like this again as doing it when there's a 15% unemployment rate would cause civil unrest. Cash payments should be substituted in part for food stamps and clothing vouchers with deductions at source made for utilities. There are far too many people taking the piss and living off the backs of working people.

A second time you misquote me. You are being deliberately silly here.



However I do agree that all payments should be cut. My daughter is 27. When she was born a months children's allowance bought a large pack of nappies. Now if you have a few kids it can fund trips to Florida! Dole, pensions the lot all need to be cut. They need to look at freezing public service pay for a lot longer& have a serious look at public service pensions



I read posters praise European immigrants because they don't claim as much. Some very short memories on this thread. Have we already forgotten people not living in Ireland getting a cheap Ryanair flight to ireland to collect & sign on only to fly home the same day? They also claimed for children allowance for children not living in Ireland. The dole office actually had to change how they ran things & now non Irish have to regularly sign on unlike Irish people.


FG are doing exactly what FF did with risky budgets. They willl get away with it for awhile but eventually there will be forces outside Irelands control & their risky budgets will catch up on us all. It's hard to believe that they haven't learned from budget mistakes only 10 years before. We haven't had a safe budget since troika left

Donald Trump

yoke wrote: »

Stop posting sh!te and answer my simple question: Do you believe that the majority of construction workers in Africa are women?

The only shite being posted is you continuing with your virtue signalling and refusing to recognize facts dude. It's a UN report and states women in parts of Africa bear a disproportionate share of manual and labour intensive jobs there. The reason I posted the link was simply to point out where some of the perception, that some African men do not want to do labouring or manual work, comes from. It is a facet of some cultures there. I said not all, and not all within a culture. I'm just pointing out that it is a recognized fact. It doesn't fit with your narrative so you want to go on the offensive.



Btw, there are probably contact details on the document if you want to contact the boffins who wrote it. They'll be really glad when you point out to them that they were wrong. Because I'll bet that they never thought of doing your technique and "googling for images of construction workers in Africa". The eejits probably only went there and talked to people and collected whatever data they could :pac:

Shefwedfan

Mr. teddywinkles wrote: »

There's also the other side to that coin and the expectation of all workers to be highly experienced with ridiculous amounts of qualifications and education by employers.

Based on what?



As I said above my nephew is going for jobs. He done a year in colleg and has option to do another but doesn't like the course so kind of unsure what turn next so he wants to do a year working and go from their.



He has walked into job with a leaving cert and has had no problem picking up interview and is hopeful of getting a job. Not a single employer yet has mentioned his lack of qualifications.

Sleeper12

recedite wrote:

Hmmm... so using this logic, we can improve the economy by encouraging people give up work and sign on the dole instead. We can do even better by encouraging social welfare recipients from the neighbouring UK to come and live in Ireland. I know there's a good few New Age type hippies living around West Cork that have come over, but surely we could advertise to attract even more of them. Why stop there? The UK is a small market in global terms. Africa has 1200,000,000 and most of them would love to take up the offer. Dole for life, medical card, a university degree, and a free 5-bed house (if they can pop out 5 or 6 kids)

You are taking the comment out of context. The point being made was that its far better for the local economy to have people living here on the dole and spending their dole than having people fleeing the country. This is simple economics. Obviously its better not to have anyone on the dole and no one leaving the country but its far better to have people on the dole for two years than to have them leave the country.

Another poster is arguing that they will all come back to Ireland after 10 years with 200k in the bank. That's all lovely but most of us live in the real world.

Donald Trump

Sleeper12 wrote: »

However I do agree that all payments should be cut. My daughter is 27. When she was born a months children's allowance bought a large pack of nappies. Now if you have a few kids it can fund trips to Florida! Dole, pensions the lot all need to be cut. They need to look at freezing public service pay for a lot longer& have a serious look at public service pensions

Dude, you're all over the place. How are the patriots going to drive the economy if their dole is cut?

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I read posters praise European immigrants because they don't claim as much. Some very short memories on this thread. Have we already forgotten people not living in Ireland getting a cheap Ryanair flight to ireland to collect & sign on only to fly home the same day? They also claimed for children allowance for children not living in Ireland. The dole office actually had to change how they ran things & now non Irish have to regularly sign on unlike Irish people.

Don't forget about all "de blacks" getting brand new expensive buggies and leaving them at bus stops because they'd just get another new one the next day




(FYI, it was legal for EU citizens to claim for children who were not living in Ireland. Those were the rules at the time.)

Shefwedfan

Sleeper12 wrote: »

You are taking the comment out of context. The point being made was that its far better for the local economy to have people living here on the dole and spending their dole than having people fleeing the country. This is simple economics. Obviously its better not to have anyone on the dole and no one leaving the country but its far better to have people on the dole for two years than to have them leave the country.

Another poster is arguing that they will all come back to Ireland after 10 years with 200k in the bank. That's all lovely but most of us live in the real world.

Majority of people that leave and go to Australia will never come back with 200k. If you think Ireland was bad during the Tiger then Australia is 10 times worse.



Everything is crazy money, the cost of living is sky rocketed since I was over in 2007. Even places like Perth which would have been seen as cheap is now nuts.....I have friends who are full time living over in OZ, yes their wages seem huge but then they have huge overheads. Same issues as here, childcare is non existant etc ......


Very few will land back with anything close to 200k

Donald Trump

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Another poster is arguing that they will all come back to Ireland after 10 years with 200k in the bank. That's all lovely but most of us live in the real world.

Obviously not all will, plenty would come back with less and plenty with more. I used that figure as I reckon it could be a good ballpark

Mongfinder General

Sleeper12 wrote: »

In bold is what I said.






You didn't read my statement obviously as I FIRST said the money gets spent within days. Then AFTER this the money gets clawed back in tax & VAT. At no stage did I claim that the dole is subject to VAT & tax.















A second time you misquote me. You are being deliberately silly here.



However I do agree that all payments should be cut. My daughter is 27. When she was born a months children's allowance bought a large pack of nappies. Now if you have a few kids it can fund trips to Florida! Dole, pensions the lot all need to be cut. They need to look at freezing public service pay for a lot longer& have a serious look at public service pensions



I read posters praise European immigrants because they don't claim as much. Some very short memories on this thread. Have we already forgotten people not living in Ireland getting a cheap Ryanair flight to ireland to collect & sign on only to fly home the same day? They also claimed for children allowance for children not living in Ireland. The dole office actually had to change how they ran things & now non Irish have to regularly sign on unlike Irish people.


FG are doing exactly what FF did with risky budgets. They willl get away with it for awhile but eventually there will be forces outside Irelands control & their risky budgets will catch up on us all. It's hard to believe that they haven't learned from budget mistakes only 10 years before. We haven't had a safe budget since troika left

"Every penny paid out on the dole gets spent within days. It gets clawed back very quickly in vat and income tax"

So you're saying that I misinterpreted this. Who exactly is paying income tax then? Because if you're alluding to the girl sitting on the checkout in Tesco having her wages funded by dole recipients
Expenditure and then her having to pay income tax, you're having a laugh. That kind of residual benefit to the exchequer is miniscule.

VAT and excise is a bigger catch. However, redistributing dole cash to working families is likely to generate similar clawback. Almost any middle income to low income working family I know is up to their bollocks in debt and having to make hard decisions like the types of food that they can afford each week.

Sleeper12

Donald Trump wrote:

You can't simultaneously complain about people leaving and there being a deficit of tradespeople (to be replaced by foreigners we have without having had the expense of training.... as you appear to also have a problem with that too) and at the same time give out about government attempt to attract them back.

I'm not complaining. I'm quite happy for the foreign workers to do the work. The people who fled the country can stay away or come home that's their choice. I honestly don't care if the tradesmen are Irish or non Irish. It makes absolutely no difference to me. I'm in favour of immigration so you are definitely confusing me with other posters that don't want immigrants in Ireland. That ain't me.

Donald Trump wrote:

As you know "handing back the keys" is not a solution in Ireland where mortgages have full recourse. That is waffle.

Yet hundreds of people handed back the keys and fled the country. Again very short memories on this thread. You couldn't listen to talk radio 10 years ago without hearing stories about people who just walked away from the mortgage. Every station covered these stories. Are these the quality Irish people you think will bring back 200k after 10 years? These contributed to the mess and we, the tax payers, had to pay for their bad debts.