Things the PC brigade don't want to hear or admit

Weepsie

Stephen15 wrote: »

The African gangs in Balbriggan and Blanchardstown

I grew up when in Blanchardstown. There's plenty of Irish gangs too. Not really a problem because of immigration

Woke Hogan

Raconteuse wrote: »

Aye. When people do the "you actually think this and you're covering up your shame by doing that" thing, they are no longer able to construct an argument, just be subtly insulting and trollish.

A bit like how you’re accusing anyone who’s acknowledging any discrimination towards travellers as being sheltered leafy surbanites sequestered from reality.

Franz Von Peppercorn II

Woke Hogan wrote: »

A bit like how you’re accusing anyone who’s acknowledging any discrimination towards travellers as being sheltered leafy surbanites sequestered from reality.

They are certainly sequestered from halting sites. Halting sites can go anywhere. Care to opine on why?

Potential-Monke

Woke Hogan wrote: »

A bit like how you’re accusing anyone who’s acknowledging any discrimination towards travellers as being sheltered leafy surbanites sequestered from reality.

I don't think the problem is that there are decent travellers out there, it's just that in a lot of peoples opinions, based on either speculation or professional/personal experience, they are very few and far between.

jonnny68

Leg End Reject wrote: »

There are 2 genders.
Travellers are poorly regarded because of their behaviour, not discrimination.
Nobody is entitled to own their own home, that's a right you have to earn.

THIS...100%

Raconteuse

Woke Hogan wrote: »

A bit like how you’re accusing anyone who’s acknowledging any discrimination towards travellers as being sheltered leafy surbanites sequestered from reality.

I said "no doubt", meaning I suspect. Not stating it as fact.

I don't think anyone is denying discrimination though - just some think it's not up to travellers to work on the reputation of their culture.

Gregor Samsa

Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »

So you are saying that the treatment of Irish travellers is exactly the same as the enslavement of blacks in the US, the genocide of aboriginals in Australia and the starvation of Indians in India?

I kinda threw up there.

That’s sounds not just historically inept but an excuse for colonialism and imperialism. Sickening racism to be honest, not only comparing whatever minor discrimination the travellers have experienced to genocide but ignoring the white privilege of travellers. It might well be that because they are white skinned you see whatever minor forms of discrimination the travellers have experienced as equivalent to genocide and enslavement and that justifies your hyperbole.

Pathetic, but not surprising. You can’t argue the point, so you change the argument. It’s clear that I said that the language used by racists in this thread is the same as that of contemporary racists elsewhere. Not once did I compare the historic treatment of anyone to travellers. Your posts are yet another example - randomly introduce slavery and genocide that are nothing to do with my point to divert and make you feel like you’re somehow justified in your racism because you aren’t as bad as other people in history (who I wasn’t even talking about) were.

Woke Hogan

Raconteuse wrote: »

I said "no doubt", meaning I suspect. Not stating it as fact.

I don't think anyone is denying discrimination though - just some think it's not up to travellers to work on the reputation of their culture.

Yeah, no I got it. Unlike yourself I don’t pretend to read everything hyper literally and need clarification when someone uses a figure of speech. And I do mean EVERY figure of speech.

Nobody’s denying discrimination they’re just foaming at the mouth at the idea that even a fraction of the tension between Travellers and settled people isn’t just travellers fault. Strange.

Franz Von Peppercorn II

phutyle wrote: »

Pathetic, but not surprising. You can’t argue the point, so you change the argument.

No change of argument. You pretty much compared the enslavement and genocide of brown and black people to whatever minor discrimination the travellers have experienced. That’s the racism.

It’s clear that I said that the language used by racists in this thread I’d the same as that of racists elsewhere. Your posts are yet another example - randomly introduce slavery and genocide that are nothing to do with my point to divert and make you feel like you’re somehow justified in your racism because you aren’t as bad as other people in history (who I wasn’t even talking about) were.

I didn’t randomly introduce slavery. You compared Ireland’s treatment of travellers with the genocide of blacks and browns, probably due to unconscious white supremacism. You should talk to my my Indian wife about that, as she’s no friend of the British empire. And in fact I didn’t say anything “racist” about travellers. I merely said this analogy was historically corrupt.

I also acknowledge discrimination against travellers. It isn’t the cant here about employers and renting - traveller groups themselves want to travel and stay seperate from settled groups Therefore PAYE jobs won’t suit.

One of major problems is how the racist bourgeois keep their areas Zigeuner frei.

If halting sites were more fairly distributed to rich areas then some or all of the problems regarding traveller poverty would be solved. Unfortunately the liberal bourgeois are racist in deed while “anti racist” in words. Hypocrisy is always part and parcel of the ruling class condition.

Woke Hogan

phutyle wrote: »

Pathetic, but not surprising. You can’t argue the point, so you change the argument. It’s clear that I said that the language used by racists in this thread is the same as that of contemporary racists elsewhere. Not once did I compare the historic treatment of anyone to travellers. Your posts are yet another example - randomly introduce slavery and genocide that are nothing to do with my point to divert and make you feel like you’re somehow justified in your racism because you aren’t as bad as other people in history (who I wasn’t even talking about) were.

Interesting how that poster’s mewling was nowhere to be heard when I was compared to Joseph Goebbels earlier. Probably missed it when he was rooting around in his pocket for his “travellers have white privilege” trump card.

Gregor Samsa

Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »

You compared Ireland’s treatment of travellers with the genocide of blacks and browns, probably due to unconscious white supremacism.

Incapable of dealing with their shame, the racist blatantly lies to fool themselves that they’re not what they are. An all too common trope.

Woke Hogan

phutyle wrote: »

Incapable of dealing with their shame, the racist blatantly lies to fool themselves that they’re not what they are. An all too common trope.

He can’t be racist, he has an Indian wife. You’re the racist.

Much like those American white supremacists you hear about with Filipino mail order brides. Completely blinkered.

Sweaty Balls

How exactly does one go about being racist against people with the same skin colour as him?

Franz Von Peppercorn II

phutyle wrote: »

Incapable of dealing with their shame, the racist blatantly lies to fool themselves that they’re not what they are. An all too common trope.

Indeed. Now most of your arguments are ad hominems. You called me a racist but in fact I said nothing about travellers. I merely interjected to point out the comparisons between the treatment of travellers and aboriginals in Australia, blacks in the US and Indians in British India was obscene.

In fact racist. Shouldn’t be controversial. If you want to argue that blacks in the US etc have had the same treatment as travellers here I can only condemn that argument as racist in itself. White supremacism. There is no comparison between slavery and the rich in Ireland stopping halting sites in their areas, as horrible as that is.

I haven’t denied discrimination against travellers but instead have said its largely due, not to hiring or renting (largely moot given traveller lifestyles) but where we put halting sites. You have failed to engage with that argument for reasons which are obvious to me.

super_furry

Ohhhh you've done it now, you've made him the worse kind of angry......INTERNET ANGRY!

Gregor Samsa

Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »

I merely interjected to point out the comparisons between the treatment of travellers and aboriginals in Australia, blacks in the US and Indians in British India was obscene.

For your benefit, I’ll quote myself. I typed it slowly just for you this time. Take a deep breath before you read it, because it’s clear you’re seething and not thinking straight. I compared racists in this thread to racists in the US, UK and Australia. Point out to me where I compared travellers anything to black or Asian anything.

There’s literally no anti traveller argument in this thread that isn’t used by US racists against blacks, British racists against Asians or Australian racists against the indigenous people

I await the mental gymnastics that get you out of this.

Franz Von Peppercorn II

phutyle wrote: »

For your benefit, I’ll quote myself. I typed it slowly just for you this time. I compared racists in this thread to racists in the US, UK and Australia. Point out to me where I compared travellers anything to black or Asian anything.



I await the mental gymnastics that get you out of this.

And I said the comparison was inept given the historical differences between the countries.

By the way you called me a racist in that post and I’m going to pursue that. Yes I am seething.

Edit :

Actually two posts. I’ve literally said nothing about travellers except that their history can’t be compared to the groups you mentioned.

Let’s agree for now that there’s racism towards travellers. Why do you never engage my second point about where travelling sites go?

flazio

Crock Rock wrote: »

Travellers account for 0.7 % of the general population but represent 10-20% of prisoners.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Travellers
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisons_in_the_Republic_of_Ireland
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/disproportionate-number-of-travellers-in-prison-population-1.3263524


Have you any stats or facts that are true but the PC brigade don't like to hear?

Doesn't that just mean that 80% to 90% of prisoners are not travellers?

Gregor Samsa

Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »

By the way you called me a racist in that post and I’m going to pursue that. Yes I am seething.

I called you a racist because your post appeared to be an apology for the racist arguments used by many.

If that was based on misunderstanding, on your part or mine, then I retract it.

Franz Von Peppercorn II

phutyle wrote: »

I called you a racist because your post appeared to be an apology for the racist arguments used by many.

If that was based on misunderstanding, on your part or mine, then I retract it.

Fair enough.

skooterblue2

flazio wrote: »

Doesn't that just mean that 80% to 90% of prisoners are not travellers?

It is as a percentage of the general population. It means approximately that traveller have a much higher rate of going to prison than the general population. When you work it out mathematically it is astounding

Stephen15

Weepsie wrote: »

I grew up when in Blanchardstown. There's plenty of Irish gangs too. Not really a problem because of immigration

So we should make the problem worse by allowing more gangs into the country

EmmetSpiceland

Franz, can you actually get people site banned? I thought only the “top mods” could do that.

Gregor Samsa

Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »

Why do you never engage my second point about where travelling sites go?

On this point, I live (in a middle class estate) less than 500 metres from a halting site. There’s also other traveller housing about 700 meters away. My workplace also has a halting site a stones throw away (although they’ve never thrown stones).

I also posted recently in another thread on my decidedly neutral experience of having a traveler family live in a rented house directly across the road from me (in the very same estate) for two years, and of travellers staying in the caravan park I holiday in (in response to some moron who said that “liberal hand wringers” should be forced to live beside them - well, I did and I had no problems).

On a more general note, there isn’t a single council in the country that actually fulfils its legal obligations for traveller accommodation.

boombang

flazio wrote: »

Doesn't that just mean that 80% to 90% of prisoners are not travellers?

???

Mad_maxx

It's illegal to pay a woman less for the same job as a man

The gender pay gap doesn't exist

Mad_maxx

Crock Rock wrote: »

Travellers account for 0.7 % of the general population but represent 10-20% of prisoners.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Travellers
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisons_in_the_Republic_of_Ireland
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/disproportionate-number-of-travellers-in-prison-population-1.3263524


Have you any stats or facts that are true but the PC brigade don't like to hear?

Pat o mahony ( media wanker) said on twitter that the disproportionate percentage of travellers imprisoned was due to racial profiling

EmmetSpiceland

phutyle wrote: »

On this point, I live (in a middle class estate) less than 500 metres from a halting site. There’s also other traveller housing about 700 meters away. My workplace also has a halting site a stones throw away (although they’ve never thrown stones).

I’m the same, P. Live in a decent estate in a decent area. There’s at least three “halting sites” in, about, a square mile of my house. The only times I encounter any travellers is the odd lad looking to clean my drive or in the local Lidl/Aldi.

Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »

The whole thing is bogus upper class bollocks anyway. Traveller halting sites can go anywhere but are inevitably pushed into the poorest parts of Dublin and Ireland.

Raconteuse wrote: »

Why is it so difficult for some (no doubt middle-class, leafy suburb dwelling) folk to acknowledge that it's possible for someone to both acknowledge the very serious and numerous problems widespread in traveller society

The above posts just smack of NIMBY and you’re, actually, projecting your NIMBYism on other people. Myself and phutyle both live in “middle class” areas and don’t appear to have any issues so please stop assuming that everyone else shares your NIMBYic view.

skooterblue2

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Pat o mahony ( media wanker) said on twitter that the disproportionate percentage of travellers imprisoned was due to racial profiling intuition

Kind of hard to be not guilty when you are caught in the act.

Mad_maxx

the beer revolu wrote: »

To all the traveller hating folk:

No one denies that there are many social problems amongst the travelling community.
There is a problem with integration with the wider society as a whole. And yes, criminality is a problem that appears to be more widespread in the traveller community.

This seems to cause a lot of angst from people here. What is your solution?
Grenoside?
I'd really like to hear how you might solve the problem (or perhaps I don't).

Personally, I don't know but I do know that continuing to prejudge every single traveller as worthless scum sure doesn't seem to be helping.
Why would a traveller want to integrate into a society that socially accepts outright hatred for people they have never met?
I have no doubt that if I was born a traveller that I'd have learned from a very early age that I was scum and not welcome in the wider community.
What incentive would there be for me to become an upstanding member of a society that hates me without knowing anything about me?

I don't see things improving.

A stick approach for the next twenty years, the carrot has failed miserably

No children's allowance after fourth child, this will hit travellers harder thus making having large litters less desirable

Cut dole if traveller kids leave school early or miss school at the rate they do

Draft extraordinary powers so as to allow cab have a special unit reserved for traveller crime

Defund pavee point