Things the PC brigade don't want to hear or admit

Bonniedog

The "crushed by the Catholic Church" bit is getting a bit stale at this stage. Battle was won over 40 years ago.

To listen to some of them you would think they had been like Tibetan guerrillas hiding out in the Himalayas.

Irish liberals are also obsessed with the notion that Ireland was somehow unique in being sexually repressed and child abuse whereas all countries share a similar horrific history in relation to the latter.

That includes Sweden where it is estimated that 40% of children in state care are abused. They are only now starting to come to terms with this. Likewise in the UK where abuse in state institutions was every bit as bad if not worse than here, and again is something that is ongoing.

The common denominator in all of this was the notion that children could be handed over to the care of adult men with no personal or biological connection to the child. Didn't matter whether that was Christian brothers, social workers, borstal guards.

Which is a valid reason for questioning the adoption by men of children to whom they have no biological ties.

Stop moaning ffs

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Both in Ireland and the USA, liberals demanded that the doors be thrown open on the old style institution's, what followed was that the families of those who were seriously disturbed, were unable to cope so the ill people ended up homeless

Many were sent there for altogether spurious reasons but the baby ended up being thrown out with the bath water

Go way with the ‘liberals’ will you please?

Mam of 4

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Mental illness is over diagnosed and a lot of people use it to avoid taking responsibility or to get meds to escape reality.

I don't know what Alternate Universe you live on , but people using depression to get meds to escape reality ?? You haven't a clue have you , hopefully it'll never hit you , as I doubt you'd hold the same opinion if it did .

Mad_maxx

steddyeddy wrote: »

Demonstrably untrue M.Thatcher cut huge amounts of funding for mental health and implemented a program called "care in the community". A program that expected the public to make up for the cuts she implemented.

"care in the community" involves a nice Liberal minded social worker visiting Jimmy (who is barely able to wash himself and has hallucinations daily) once per week for a nice chat

It's entirely a liberal programme and does not work. Thatcher and Reagan liked the idea of saving money but the ideology behind the whole thing was Liberal

I understand why the majority believe closing the institutions was a good thing,vast majority of people have no direct experience of severely mentally unwell people and so through years of conditioning by the media, view the old system as evil

It was ugly but better than the system today where unless you kill someone, you won't be committed

Ulysses Gaze

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

This thread is mind-numbing.

People actually defending discrimination of travellers because employers have had bad experiences -- this is exactly how racists speak everywhere in the world. You don't get a free pass from being a racist because a lot of people agree with your degenerate opinions.

A simple yes or no answer.

Would you live next to a halting site?

Danonino.

Danonino. wrote: »

<snip> I’m guessing you have never witnessed someone you know suffer from a mental illness and watch their recovery aided by proper diagnosis and medication? <snip>

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

<snip>

**ERROR - ILoveYourVibes.exe has ignored your entire post and has failed to respond to the above question**

I’ll take that as a no so. Cheers.

One eyed Jack

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Yeah I think you’re in the parallel universe ireland to be fair.

How am either I or you living in a parallel universe Ireland when the reality is it’s all the one Ireland- we just don’t share the same perspective of either how liberal or conservative it is? It can be both, at the same time, and a good example of that is abortion -

Nobody wants it, nobody wants to provide for it, nobody wants to have to have one, nobody wants to pay to have one, so it was easy for everyone to say give people what they want as long as I don’t have to deal with it.

Mad_maxx

Bonniedog wrote: »

The "crushed by the Catholic Church" bit is getting a bit stale at this stage. Battle was won over 40 years ago.

To listen to some of them you would think they had been like Tibetan guerrillas hiding out in the Himalayas.

Irish liberals are also obsessed with the notion that Ireland was somehow unique in being sexually repressed and child abuse whereas all countries share a similar horrific history in relation to the latter.

That includes Sweden where it is estimated that 40% of children in state care are abused. They are only now starting to come to terms with this. Likewise in the UK where abuse in state institutions was every bit as bad if not worse than here, and again is something that is ongoing.

The common denominator in all of this was the notion that children could be handed over to the care of adult men with no personal or biological connection to the child. Didn't matter whether that was Christian brothers, social workers, borstal guards.

Which is a valid reason for questioning the adoption by men of children to whom they have no biological ties.

It's amusing how the Liberal left view themselves as plucky rebels here when in truth they are the establishment who dominate every facet of public and media discourse

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Insect Overlord wrote: »

Being contrarian for a hobby must be exhausting. Where do such people find the energy to constantly argue against conventional wisdom in every single facet of debate?

I know. I don’t get it. Maybe all of us will at some stage or another think differently from the consensus on a topic. But that’s not going to be tiring because it’s a genuinely held belief. But going out of one’s way to be so contrarian and obdurate, I do not understand. Especially when it can make the person look silly.

Stop moaning ffs

Mad_maxx wrote: »

It's amusing how the Liberal left view themselves as plucky rebels here when in truth they are the establishment who dominate every facet of public and media discourse

The frankly ridiculous attempt to push the liberal baddie agenda here is hilarious. Are you one of them Russian bots? It won’t wash here son. Ever.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

kunst nugget wrote: »

That's simply a nonsense. Since the divorce referendum, the Bishop Casey affair and the subsequent fallout from the clerical sex abuse scandals, the Church hasn't had the stranglehold on the country's morality that it had previously. There's no way that the Marriage Equality or Abortion referendums would have won so comprehensively in the Ireland of the 80s and 90s. That's not to say that there isn't a deeply conservative streak in this country, particularly in rural areas, but it is anyway as pronounced as it was decades ago.

They wouldn’t have won, full stop. Never mind comprehensively. If the legalisation of divorce barely won 24 years ago, no way would those other two issues have had any hope of winning, even in the ‘90s.

One eyed Jack

kunst nugget wrote: »

That's simply a nonsense. Since the divorce referendum, the Bishop Casey affair and the subsequent fallout from the clerical sex abuse scandals, the Church hasn't had the stranglehold on the country's morality that it had previously. There's no way that the Marriage Equality or Abortion referendums would have won so comprehensively in the Ireland of the 80s and 90s. That's not to say that there isn't a deeply conservative streak in this country, particularly in rural areas, but it is anyway as pronounced as it was decades ago.

This is exactly my point- it wasn’t the Church that had any stranglehold over Irish society’s moral compass, it was the Irish people themselves who were notoriously curtain twitchy virtue signallers. They knew exactly what was going on in the Laundries, they knew exactly what was going on in the Churches, they knew exactly what was going on when young people were threatened that if they ever brought shame on the family they would be sent to one of these places.

Referendums themselves don’t actually count for a whole pile as to how people treat each other in society, and Irish society still by a good margin a vastly conservative society. It’s not actually even particularly in rural areas at all, it’s worse in the cities where people are in practice far more conservative and nimbyistic than in rural areas where they don’t have to live on top of each other. The issue isn’t one of conservative vs liberal, it’s more one of class - you’ll notice that people in the upper classes of society always argued over what should be done to curb the spread of the underclass, disguising their disdain in what they see as the absence of morals in the lower classes.

Bonniedog

Diarmuid Ferriters for Dummies now.

Sardonicat

Bonniedog wrote: »

Diarmuid Ferriters for Dummies now.

How so? I haven't read him in over 15 years. Has his work dumbed down ?

Bonniedog

Is that possible?

The tendency to exaggerate the "repression" in Irish society is known as "Irish particularism."

Often found in people who do not realise that much the same sort of social mores and indeed abuses were common across all western and indeed European socialist states and USSR over the same period,

Sunny Disposition

Large scale immigration leads to higher house prices, use of cannabis often leads to psychological problems.

Mangofrozo

I cringe when I hear people being described as "liberals" and "conservatives".

Which one am I, I'm pro gay marriage, anti abortion after 12 weeks, I'm an atheist, I think free markets should be the default option unless good arguments against (which there often is), I think children shouldn't be indoctrinated by their parents into a religion, the government should minimal interference in people's lives unless there is a good reason (which there often is), I think it's perfectly reasonable to limit immigration.

One eyed Jack

Mangofrozo wrote: »

I cringe when I hear people being described as "liberals" and "conservatives".

Which one am I I'm pro gay marriage, anti abortion after 12 weeks, I'm an atheist, I think free markets should be the default option unless good arguments against (which there often is), I think children shouldn't be indoctrinated by their parents into a religion, the government should minimal interference in people's lives unless there is a good reason (which there often is), I think it's perfectly reasonable to limit immigration.

You’re the sort of sleeve hated by both liberals and conservatives alike, I’d best describe you in polite terms as a progressive, in more impolite terms as simply a hypocrite. You’d have a great career in politics though, hasn’t done Leo’s reputation any harm

glomar

pgj2015 wrote: »

working on building sites laboring

working for the co council making roads

factory work

landscaping

if they spent more time working they would have less time for petty feuds with fellow travellers.

isnt council works outsourced these days
factory .. do they still exist .

Stop moaning ffs

Mangofrozo wrote: »

I cringe when I hear people being described as "liberals" and "conservatives".

Which one am I, I'm pro gay marriage, anti abortion after 12 weeks, I'm an atheist, I think free markets should be the default option unless good arguments against (which there often is), I think children shouldn't be indoctrinated by their parents into a religion, the government should minimal interference in people's lives unless there is a good reason (which there often is), I think it's perfectly reasonable to limit immigration.

Deeply suspicious of any account online using terms like liberal and all that comes with it. Then you look at their posting history and realize it’s in every single post and it’s pushing a very obvious agenda.

kunst nugget

One eyed Jack wrote: »

You’re the sort of sleeve hated by both liberals and conservatives alike, I’d best describe you in polite terms as a progressive, in more impolite terms as simply a hypocrite. You’d have a great career in politics though, hasn’t done Leo’s reputation any harm

Why the fook would you call him a hypocrite? People are able to have varying views on different issues.

I also abhor this 'liberal/conservative' bullshít that people have co-opted from American political debate and have tried to transplant to an Irish context.

Franz Von Peppercorn II

One eyed Jack wrote: »

You’re the sort of sleeve hated by both liberals and conservatives alike, I’d best describe you in polite terms as a progressive, in more impolite terms as simply a hypocrite. You’d have a great career in politics though, hasn’t done Leo’s reputation any harm

What was particularly hypocritical about his list?

Graces7

Mad_maxx wrote: »

"care in the community" involves a nice Liberal minded social worker visiting Jimmy (who is barely able to wash himself and has hallucinations daily) once per week for a nice chat

It's entirely a liberal programme and does not work. Thatcher and Reagan liked the idea of saving money but the ideology behind the whole thing was Liberal

I understand why the majority believe closing the institutions was a good thing,vast majority of people have no direct experience of severely mentally unwell people and so through years of conditioning by the media, view the old system as evil

It was ugly but better than the system today where unless you kill someone, you won't be committed

You really ( and erroneously) think that everyone who was committed to these.... warehouses.... was "severely mentally unwell" whatever that euphemism means? Nah!

... These days patients are told that eg chronic pain is "all in the mind." In those days they were committed to spare drs being bothered with them. The truly mentally ill were and are blessedly few and they were and are still admitted/committed to wards. As you say you know?

The old system was abused massively and so was essentially evil. Worse than eg prison as patients had no right of complaint.... after all who would believe them when they were in the loony bin ..you lost all your civil rights and liberties.

Suspicious deaths ( and I saw these ) were covered up so easily. Difficult teenagers? Yep. They were dumping grounds. everyone drugged up all the time..

There was nothing political about the closing .. Simply cheaper! And better drugs. and some common sense and making GPs support their patients.

The wrong admissions stopped when the huge hospitals closed

My life improved massively then as did countless others.


DId you by the way check stats re homelessness and real mental illness? A couple of winters ago one of the homeless charities took some into mental facility care.

Will I Am Not

Mangofrozo wrote: »

I cringe when I hear people being described as "liberals" and "conservatives".

Which one am I, I'm pro gay marriage, anti abortion after 12 weeks, I'm an atheist, I think free markets should be the default option unless good arguments against (which there often is), I think children shouldn't be indoctrinated by their parents into a religion, the government should minimal interference in people's lives unless there is a good reason (which there often is), I think it's perfectly reasonable to limit immigration.

Fairly similar to myself but it only takes one of those stances that you mentioned to get you branded.

One eyed Jack

One eyed Jack wrote: »

You’re the sort of sleeve hated by both liberals and conservatives alike, I’d best describe you in polite terms as a progressive, in more impolite terms as simply a hypocrite. You’d have a great career in politics though, hasn’t done Leo’s reputation any harm

youre out of order there OEJ

the entire point is that we'd all be better off taking issues on their merits and not as mouthpieces for a "side" we signed up to at any stage

kunst nugget

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

They wouldn’t have won, full stop. Never mind comprehensively. If the legalisation of divorce barely won 24 years ago, no way would those other two issues have had any hope of winning, even in the ‘90s.

Badly phrased on my part. Even in the 90s there was a deeply homophobic streak in this country and abortion? Forget about it...

One eyed Jack

kunst nugget wrote: »

Why the fook would you call him a hypocrite? People are able to have varying views on different issues.

I also abhor this 'liberal/conservative' bullshít that people have co-opted from American political debate and have tried to transplant to an Irish context.

I’d call him a hypocrite because he appears to express conflicting opinions on a number of issues, but if we just take one example that’s common to progressive philosophy -


I think children shouldn't be indoctrinated by their parents into a religion, the government should minimal interference in people's lives unless there is a good reason (which there often is)


People should have no right to freedom of religion, but the State shouldn’t interfere in people’s lives either (unless there is good reason, based upon that posters view). That’s neither a liberal nor conservative ideal, and I do know the difference, and I’m not confusing them with American politics. That’s why I suggested they would have a good career in politics, because like Leo their opinions on anything change based upon whatever way the wind is blowing.

kunst nugget

One eyed Jack wrote: »

This is exactly my point- it wasn’t the Church that had any stranglehold over Irish society’s moral compass, it was the Irish people themselves who were notoriously curtain twitchy virtue signallers. They knew exactly what was going on in the Laundries, they knew exactly what was going on in the Churches, they knew exactly what was going on when young people were threatened that if they ever brought shame on the family they would be sent to one of these places.

And who defined the moral code in this country? Seriously, when your neighbour Pat was telling you that Mary was a slut and a fallen woman that brought shame on her family for getting pregnant outside of marriage, he wasn't licking it off the ground.

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Referendums themselves don’t actually count for a whole pile as to how people treat each other in society, and Irish society still by a good margin a vastly conservative society. It’s not actually even particularly in rural areas at all, it’s worse in the cities where people are in practice far more conservative and nimbyistic than in rural areas where they don’t have to live on top of each other. The issue isn’t one of conservative vs liberal, it’s more one of class - you’ll notice that people in the upper classes of society always argued over what should be done to curb the spread of the underclass, disguising their disdain in what they see as the absence of morals in the lower classes.

You seem to be throwing words into sentences in the hope that they'll make some sort of point...

Graces7

Mad_maxx wrote: »

I've a close relative under the care of the state, I've forgotten more about it than you will ever know

No way; you were and are an observer. You have no idea of the reality in the old days when the doors were closed after the visitors left. And you are basing your ideas on the care now of those who really need mental health care as inpatients which the majority then did not.

One eyed Jack

[Deleted User] wrote: »

youre out of order there OEJ

the entire point is that we'd all be better off taking issues on their merits and not as mouthpieces for a "side" we signed up to at any stage

How am I out of order? The thread is about things that the politically correct brigade don’t want to hear, and here was a poster expressing all the politically correct sorts of opinions (contradictory and all as they were), and they ask what they would be described as?

It’s probably what they wanted to hear though now I think about it.