Things the PC brigade don't want to hear or admit

nkl12xtw5goz70

the beer revolu wrote: »

If travellers have free reign to do as they please, how come there are so many travellers in prison?

It's difficult to dispute that Travellers get far more latitude than settled people. The Gardai, Revenue, and other state authorities are afraid of them and are willing to intervene only as a last resort. As just one example, county councillors in Laois recently accused the Gardai of running away from the numerous problems with Travellers in Portarlington.

If a settled person took a 13-year-old child out of school, the authorities would soon be knocking at the door to find out why. And yet Travellers do this all the time, with no apparent consequences.

Blueshoe

Nickolas Square Poinsettia wrote: »

It's difficult to dispute that Travellers get far more latitude than settled people. The Gardai, Revenue, and other state authorities are afraid of them and let them away with a lot. As just one example, county councillors in Laois recently accused the Gardai of running away from the numerous problems with Travellers in Portarlington.

If a settled person took a 13-year-old child out of school, the authorities would soon be knocking at the door to find out why. And yet Travellers do this all the time, with no apparent consequences.

You will get a reply from that poster along the lines of : ok but what is you point? It's like conversing with a generation 1 bot

Gregor Samsa

OMM 0000 wrote: »

How are Sinn Fein far left?

Their economic policies are your typical marxist "tax the rich, give to the poor". I remember reading their policy and I would have been taxed at over 90%. (This was a few years ago, maybe they've changed this now).

They do, or did, have a marxist private army (the IRA) who cooperated with other communist groups.

I can admit they they're getting softer as they go more mainstream and mature as a party.

Official SF/IRA were certainly far left. Provisional SF (the “Sinn Féin” we current have in the Dáil) are not. One of the reasons for the split in 1970 was because of opposition to the drift towards “extreme forms of socialism“. SF are not Marxists, but left wing populists.

The Socialist Party and People Before Profit would be the actual Far Left (Trotskyist) parties in the Dáil at present. They’re much, much further to the left than SF are.

the beer revolu

Nickolas Square Poinsettia wrote: »

It's difficult to dispute that Travellers get far more latitude than settled people. The Gardai, Revenue, and other state authorities are afraid of them and are willing to intervene only as a last resort. As just one example, county councillors in Laois recently accused the Gardai of running away from the numerous problems with Travellers in Portarlington.

If a settled person took a 13-year-old child out of school, the authorities would soon be knocking at the door to find out why. And yet Travellers do this all the time, with no apparent consequences.

County councillors making claims proves nothing. Everything else is opinion and hearsay.

I have no idea how truancy is investigated or reported. I suspect you don't either.

Again I'll say. Nowhere have I claimed that no teaveller does bad things. Nowhere have I defended anyone acting illegally.

I'm just pointing out inarguable bigotry.
Making judgements on people without any knowledge of them other than the community they come from is predjudging and is bigotry.

Will I Am Not

steddyeddy wrote: »

Yes I generally do. There's studies to support that. It was demonstrated by a research group in Harvard that Republicans are less likely to believe in facts even when presented as evidence.

It was also confirmed that they're far more likely to believe in lies.




So yes and excuse if this isn't PC, but conservatives are generally a dumber class of people.

What conservatives may lack in intelligence is balanced out by what liberals may lack in common sense. They can both be as dumb as each other in different ways.

steddyeddy

Will I Am Not wrote: »

What conservatives may lack in intelligence is balanced out by what liberals may lack in common sense. They can both be as dumb as each other in different ways.

Trump:

In June of 1775, the Continental Congress created a unified army out of the revolutionary forces encamped around Boston and New York … The Continental Army suffered a bitter winter of Valley Forge, found glory across the waters of the Delaware, and seized victory from Cornwallis of Yorktown.

“Our army manned the air, it rammed the ramparts, it took over the airports, it did everything it had to do, and at Fort McHenry, under the rockets’ red glare, it had nothing but victory.”

Conservatives in America used their common sense to elect a former reality TV show star to become president. As a result for US deficit will pass 1 Trillion under Trump's watch.

Yes I don't agree with everything the far left say or do and some of it is pretty stupid but nothing approaches Conservatives for lacking brains and common sense.

Again I realise it might not be PC to call Trump supporters stupid but isn't that the nature of the thread?

nthclare

Blueshoe wrote: »

You will get a reply from that poster along the lines of : ok but what is you point? It's like conversing with a generation 1 bot

Exactly a generation 1 bot is a good observation of the kind of ilk frequently debating on board's...

Some can see logically others just pedantically dig their heels in... and won't agree for the sake of being a dickhead, or unable to think others have a point...

I often wonder is there a team of people out there who frequent boards on order to deflect the truth....

Keeping it simple is not easy.

Imagine living or having a relationship with one of these generation 1 bot goon's, one would be burnt out....

Will I Am Not

steddyeddy wrote: »

Trump:



Conservatives in America used their common sense to elect a former reality TV show star to become president. As a result for US deficit will pass 1 Trillion under Trump's watch.

Yes I don't agree with everything the far left say or do and some of it is pretty stupid but nothing approaches Conservatives for lacking brains and common sense.

Again I realise it might not be PC to call Trump supporters stupid but isn't that the nature of the thread?

I would agree that MAGA hat wearing, build the wall chanting Trump supporters tend to be dumb as f*ck. They are the equivalent to the kill all terfs chanting, straight white men are the devil believing liberals.

beejee

Stupid people are everywhere, regardless of ideological leaning. It is hardly a comparison upon which to draw conclusion.

But I find little, if any, elevation among liberal ideology. It almost always puts personal emotion above fact. In a word, that's "stupid".

With conservative ideology I find that it boils down to common sense reasoning, tasteful or not. As with anything based more on fact than fiction, there is a lot more elevation to the argument.

In other words, an intelligent conservative will walk rings around an intelligent liberal, in my experience and observation.

OMM 0000

A large number of people wanted to elect Hillary Clinton because she has a vagina.

A large number of people wanted to elect Obama because he's black.

This idiocy from the left where they believe only the right are dumb or unreasonable is extraordinary.

NEWSFLASH: THEY'RE ALL IDIOTS.

Where I feel the left and right differ greatly is the left almost never think through their arguments, and just go with emotions. Whereas the right do think through their arguments, but don't use emotions. This can make the left seem like a bunch of babies, but the right seem heartless.

You can see it here. The people who lean left clearly haven't thought through any of their positions, whereas the people who lean right are a little bit harsh.

OMM 0000

OMM 0000 wrote: »

Where I feel the left and right differ greatly is the left almost never think through their arguments, and just go with emotions. Whereas the right do think through their arguments, but don't use emotions.

That sounds logical. I must subscribe to your newsletter.

Stop moaning ffs

steddyeddy wrote: »

Again O you're proving my point. People from the Conservative point of view will be immune to facts.

Again here's what they state about the predisposition of those on the right towards being less able to assimilate facts:

He just beautifully illustrated the point you were making. Presented with facts unable to process or debate them, into their ignore list you go.
He doesn’t even realize he proved your point for you

Assetbacked

The hypocrisy with religion and inconsistency with criticising certain religions but not others.

In the west we are moving strongly away from religion with a massive dismantling of the influence religion had on those who live in western societies. We should continue along this path. However, in Ireland, last year we brought in a law which prevents the Catholic Church from giving bias to Catholic kids in its selection of students. At the same time, the legislation specifically excluded minority faiths which means minority faith schools can favour kids from minority faith families. In addition, it used to be normal and acceptable to say that religion is toxic and those who have religion are simple idiots. Now, if you say it about certain religions, there is an ideology which views this as a phobia, madness!

nkl12xtw5goz70

beejee wrote: »

In other words, an intelligent conservative will walk rings around an intelligent liberal, in my experience and observation.

In a heavily left-wing country (such as Ireland) many people have never actually thought about their beliefs. They just regurgitate what they have heard others say, or repeat the viewpoints expressed in the media.

Conservatives in Ireland will have much more practice articulating and defending their beliefs, and so will likely run rings around someone who is just echoing the prevailing groupthink.

Stop moaning ffs

Nickolas Square Poinsettia wrote: »

In a heavily left-wing country (such as Ireland) many people have never actually thought about their beliefs. They just regurgitate what they have heard others say, or repeat the viewpoints expressed in the media.

Conservatives in Ireland will have much more practice articulating and defending their beliefs, and so will likely run rings around someone who is just echoing the prevailing groupthink.

I can’t tell if your serious but any right wing conservatives we see regularly on tv here are utterly stupid in the extreme and are only capable of ranting off learned by rote from the doctrine.
And completely unable to address points and debate them. They don’t even listen.
See David Quinn for a prime example.

Mad_maxx

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

I can’t tell if your serious but any right wing conservatives we see regularly on tv here are utterly stupid in the extreme and are only capable of ranting off learned by rote from the doctrine.
And completely unable to address points and debate them. They don’t even listen.
See David Quinn for a prime example.

David quinn is a very measured debater

Stop moaning ffs

Mad_maxx wrote: »

David quinn is a very measured debater

Hardly. His idea and only method of debate is to be louder and talk over and constantly interrupt who ever he’s faced with. Thankfully he and his ‘institute’ are resigned to the dustbin or irrelevance they belong in

beejee

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

I can’t tell if your serious but any right wing conservatives we see regularly on tv here are utterly stupid in the extreme and are only capable of ranting off learned by rote from the doctrine.
And completely unable to address points and debate them. They don’t even listen.
See David Quinn for a prime example.

I think you may be giving people far too much credit. Do you think the average joe will be persuaded by complex thought?

You tell people the bare basics on a national platform in order to get the job done. Trump is a perfect example of it.

Its easy to look at his presidency through the lens of "gaffs" and "look what he said!" and come to the conclusion that he's an idiot. He's not. I'm not saying he's the brightest spark, but his administration has an overall aim, and the objective is to do it in the most effective way possible. Its working.

Take away national platforms, as I said above, and a debate between an intelligent ideologue of conservative leaning and an intelligent ideologue of liberal leaning...it is almost invariable that one of them will be put to sleep, so to speak :P

To sum it up, its simply fact versus fiction.

Blueshoe

beejee wrote: »

I think you may be giving people far too much credit. Do you think the average joe will be persuaded by complex thought?

You tell people the bare basics on a national platform in order to get the job done. Trump is a perfect example of it.

Its easy to look at his presidency through the lens of "gaffs" and "look what he said!" and come to the conclusion that he's an idiot. He's not. I'm not saying he's the brightest spark, but his administration has an overall aim, and the objective is to do it in the most effective way possible. Its working.

Take away national platforms, as I said above, and a debate between an intelligent ideologue of conservative leaning and an intelligent ideologue of liberal leaning...it is almost invariable that one of them will be put to sleep, so to speak :P

To sum it up, its simply fact versus fiction.

Check your privilege white Ivory tower man

Stop moaning ffs

beejee wrote: »

I think you may be giving people far too much credit. Do you think the average joe will be persuaded by complex thought?

You tell people the bare basics on a national platform in order to get the job done. Trump is a perfect example of it.

Its easy to look at his presidency through the lens of "gaffs" and "look what he said!" and come to the conclusion that he's an idiot. He's not. I'm not saying he's the brightest spark, but his administration has an overall aim, and the objective is to do it in the most effective way possible. Its working.

Take away national platforms, as I said above, and a debate between an intelligent ideologue of conservative leaning and an intelligent ideologue of liberal leaning...it is almost invariable that one of them will be put to sleep, so to speak :P

To sum it up, its simply fact versus fiction.

I don’t agree with the bare basics point. Look how completely disengenuous and misleading the No campaigns were marriage equality and repeal.
Both ran on hysteria lies and utterly irrelevant factors. Somehow bringing ‘every child deserves a mother and father’ into a referendum on marriage equality?
They had all the mysteriously sourced money in the world to fund both campaigns, and still failed. all The people they appointed to take part in all the debates were abysmal to the last one.

The ‘basics’ didn’t work there. Irish electorate are far more tuned in and educated and empathetic and intelligent than to fall to any such nonsense. A memo Gemma O Doherty and others don’t seem to have received.

OMM 0000

Nickolas Square Poinsettia wrote: »

In a heavily left-wing country (such as Ireland) many people have never actually thought about their beliefs. They just regurgitate what they have heard others say, or repeat the viewpoints expressed in the media.

Conservatives in Ireland will have much more practice articulating and defending their beliefs, and so will likely run rings around someone who is just echoing the prevailing groupthink.

This is very true.

It's like they say how black conservatives can run rings around everyone because they've spent their entire lives being attacked for not being on the left.

Certainly I find it a little frustrating talking to people on the left as almost every time their positions are either some nonsense they're regurgitating or they haven't thought through their positions at all.

Same with talking to most feminists. I find it embarrassing how little they know. It's like they're in a cult or something.

I'm not even on the right (I'm on the centre-left libertarian) but I spend almost all my time arguing with people on the left as the things they say are so simplistic and ignorant.

Stop moaning ffs

‘Everyone who doesn’t agree with my myopic world view is ignorant and beneath me’

The arrogance and the irony are something to behold

beejee

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

I don’t agree with the bare basics point. Look how completely disengenuous and misleading the No campaigns were marriage equality and repeal.
Both ran on hysteria lies and utterly irrelevant factors. Somehow bringing ‘every child deserves a mother and father’ into a referendum on marriage equality?
They had all the mysteriously sourced money in the world to fund both campaigns, and still failed. all The people they appointed to take part in all the debates were abysmal to the last one.

The ‘basics’ didn’t work there. Irish electorate are far more tune in and educated and empathetic and intelligent than to fall to any such nonsense. A memo Gemma O Doherty and others don’t seem to have received.

Youre wrong.

One sides message: "oh the poor women!"
Other sides message: "oh the poor babies!"

That's it. Nothing more complex. One side got a bit more traction with their simple simon message than the other.

Congratulating any giant mass of people on being "more intelligent" than another is crazy talk.

There are people who have genuine aims, and they will manipulate people through the most base of messages in order to achieve those aims.

Where I would argue the difference between liberal aims and conservative aims is that there is no complex reasoning behind liberal ideology. "abortion here, end of story, emotion satiated". Whereas, for example, some conservative aim was based around population birth rates and implications in other issues such as economy and sustainability...something a bit deeper, but the message still needed to be presented as "oh poor babies!"

No need to pluck at the tiny example, the overall principal is the point im making.

Bonniedog

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

hysteria lies and utterly irrelevant factors. .

I think you are getting your sides confused!

Unless you include harridans like Coppinger and barely literate drones like Lynn Ruane to be intellectuals

Mad_maxx

Mad_maxx wrote: »

David quinn is a very measured debater

And Gemma O'Doherty is an authoritative voice of reason.

Blueshoe

[Deleted User] wrote: »

And Gemma O'Doherty is an authoritative voice of reason.

And diversity is our strength

Stop moaning ffs

beejee wrote: »

Youre wrong.

One sides message: "oh the poor women!"
Other sides message: "oh the poor babies!"

That's it. Nothing more complex. One side got a bit more traction with their simple simon message than the other.

Congratulating any giant mass of people on being "more intelligent" than another is crazy talk.

There are people who have genuine aims, and they will manipulate people through the most base of messages in order to achieve those aims.

Where I would argue the difference between liberal aims and conservative aims is that there is no complex reasoning behind liberal ideology. "abortion here, end of story, emotion satiated". Whereas, for example, some conservative aim was based around population birth rates and implications in other issues such as economy and sustainability...something a bit deeper, but the message still needed to be presented as "oh poor babies!"

No need to pluck at the tiny example, the overall principal is the point im making.

I don’t doubt there are intelligent conservatives in Ireland capable of processing a thought put to them and being able to debate.
None of them ever appear in our airwaves or media though.

And what has intelligence got to do with it anyways? Neither side is more correct than the other.
The ‘right’ is a Flavour of the month fad that suddenly decreed any that disagree with them are the left.
I don’t know anyone who identifies as Left. Or right. It’s terminology only used in echo chambers and forums like these. It’s a confection and manipulated and flimsy narrative certain people try to foist in order to sow division and spout Their often racist or homophobic etc bile.
Absolutely no traction or existence in the real world

nonsensical imo to claim people on the left are stupider than anyone on the right

most leftist ideas are pretty indisputably more correct and better in the long term, they just happen to ignore or pretend that a status quo and human nature exist

the right can always rely on greed and simply wait out or stall

in one-on-one arguments, id agree that hard left types rely on smug or enraged lecturing tactics and attempts to shut down conversation, its pretty staggering theyve not noticed how poorly this comes across and how badly its damaging them. also the insistence that you have to subscribe to every single hard left belief or else you're scum. essentially, if we're drawing broad caricatures, theyre spoilt and immature tantrumers

the hard right bros rely on a few (usually) fundamentally limited and flawed "experts" or texts but maintain doggedly to the argument and just wait for the tantrum. but they prop up or encourage pretty disgusting problems in the world and their ability to stick together and "pwn the libs" cant feel too good as things go to sh1t more and more with their support

if the extremist left werent so quick to excoriate the middle ground for their own sense of online superiority i think we'd all be better off.

Mad_maxx

Nickolas Square Poinsettia wrote: »

In a heavily left-wing country (such as Ireland) many people have never actually thought about their beliefs. They just regurgitate what they have heard others say, or repeat the viewpoints expressed in the media.

Conservatives in Ireland will have much more practice articulating and defending their beliefs, and so will likely run rings around someone who is just echoing the prevailing groupthink.

As the status quo media narrative - received wisdom on countless topics is overtly progressive here, people become conditioned.

Virtually all of the media hold the same opinions here about everything

Mad_maxx

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Hardly. His idea and only method of debate is to be louder and talk over and constantly interrupt who ever he’s faced with. Thankfully he and his ‘institute’ are resigned to the dustbin or irrelevance they belong in

I've never heard David quinn raise his voice, he is calm and politeness personified, he's impossible to rattle