The Dominance of Dublin GAA *Mod warning post#1*

jack67

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122495168#Comment_122495168

No it's not a complete misrepresentation , The blame for this mess for sure lies with the GAA .

Letting Kerry dominate Munster for 100 years plus , playing puke football since 2011 trying to compete with Dublin

No wonder the crowds have disappeared , particularly in Kerry , the Kerry supporters have had there fill of the dour football you accuse Dublin of playing

As for the funding , playing at home etc , how many times are you going to repeat this , for the love of god ……….

gaffer91

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122494572#Comment_122494572

The argument can be repetitive for sure, but it's often different people participating. So while a point may be old to many long term participants, it's new to newer posters reading it. And while it is obvious that the pro-fairness side has won this debate, for as long as people pretend Dublin are competing on a level playing field, and that no action is needed, there will be a need to discuss it. It's an important issue for the GAA and it's good that the unfairness prevalent currently that benefits Dublin is highlighted and discussed. People can choose not to participate if they so wish and it's only one thread ultimately. The amount of posts and traffic it gets relative to other threads also suggests people do want to debate and discuss the issues though.

gaffer91

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122495239#Comment_122495239

We agree on Dublin’s unfair advantages being an issue for the GAA then, which is good.

I also agree that puke football, as you call it, if the kind Dublin introduced and perfected last decade is bad for the game. And Dublin's dominance of Leinster coming as it has off a platform of unfair advantages has been catastrophic for the province and the GAA as a whole. But I'll keep talking about it for as long as there is something to talk about. So for as long as Dublin's unfair advantages persist basically. You're in this discussion with me, don't forget!

Charlo30

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122495285#Comment_122495285

I suspect if we subtracted your posts and the posts of a certain other poster. Then this thread would be a good deal less active. Which would reflect the apathy a lot of people have toward this topic, right now

jack67

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122495303#Comment_122495303

We agree on diddly , Let's talk about Kerry's unfair advantages and the dour puke football they have produced since 2011 , we have heard enough of your anti Dublin nonsense thanks .

Playing in a province for over 100 years winning 85 titles is total dominance and shocking that it has been allowed to continue , no wonder the Kerry support is pathetic. Kerry have perfected this puke dour football since 2011 actually

Anyway this discussion wont last long , a thread shut down is due once again i reckon .

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122495199#Comment_122495199

This is the most deluded analysis of football I have ever seen.

Even the inventor of "puke" football - Spillane - says that Dublin are the only ones to play the game properly. He has castigated his own county for it.

Of all the hills to die on about Dublin, claiming that they play the most boring football is the craziest. They are the only team to go man-to-man for nearly every kickout, unless they are so far ahead it is wasting energy.

gaffer91

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122495364#Comment_122495364

Well we agree on the need for the GAA to address issues so we agree on more than "diddly". I'm happy to talk about other teams too. If we do that though, the first thing we need to do is place those teams in the context of all teams within inter-county GAA. If we do that, we see that Dublin are uniquely unfairly advantaged so we again need to hone in on them. Dominance is okay if it's done fairly but this isn't the case for Dublin coming as it has off a platform of playing at home, funding and population advantage. Attendances are declining across the board for various reasons, including the competition format, the style of dour, negative football that Dublin introduced and perfected in the 2010s but a large reason is just the playing field isn't level- again, see the predictable collapse in interest in Leinster if you want to see the outcome. But even if you don't win every year since 2011 and have those advantages, it's still a problem.

There's nothing anti-Dublin in what I post, precisely 0% of this is the fault of Dublin. But why do you want the discussion to be closed down? What happened to "live and let live"? You can just not participate if it upsets you.

gaffer91

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122495432#Comment_122495432

Well, there are people in this thread claiming that Dublin don't have advantages in population, funding and playing at home so you can easily find far more deluded analysis in this thread! And it's not a "hill to die on", as it's the correct position. Dublin did indeed introduce and perfect this dour, negative style of play of 15 men behind the ball, no high fielding, endless handpassing, only shooting from close in. Absolutely within the rules of the game so they have no obligation to change, but it's awful to watch. This style of play that Dublin introduced, the format and Dublin's unfair advantages are killing interest at inter-county level, as we saw in Leinster this year in particular. You may place a lot of weight in what Pat Spillane says but unfortunately the truth is in what I am telling you.

jack67

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122497326#Comment_122497326

Same nonsense over and over again , everything you post is anti Dublin , Kerry started and perfected the dour football , Kerry have and still have unique advantages , Kerry's dominance in Munster is not fair and attendances are dropping in every province , Kerry support is one of the worst in the Country .

This thread is done with , as i said above same bullshit over and over again , thread should be closed end of .

ledwithhedwith

thread should be closed, was obviously opened by a few mullas with fears of the Dubs winning 10 in a row. Turns out as anyone with half a brain figured out , it was a generational side , best we have ever seen. It’s time to move on.

gaffer91

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122497668#Comment_122497668

On the contrary, nothing I post is anti-Dublin. Some of the interventions I've supposed (e.g., splitting Dublin) are actually pro Dublin. Again, any advantages any other team may or may not have pale in comparison with the nature, scale, combination and duration of advantages that Dublin enjoy- that's why I focus on them. If any other team had 1.5 million in population, received millions more in funding from the GAA and their sponsorship partners, played all consequential games at home then I'd focus on them instead. But as things stand, this only applies to Dublin!

I agree that you are posting the "same bullshit over and over again", but why do you not want other people to have a discussion? You can just ignore it and not participate if it upsets you.

gaffer91

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122497719#Comment_122497719

Not all, Dublin winning or not winning for a few years has no bearing on whether Dublin are uniquely unfairly advantaged, which they clearly are. Take a look at the Leinster Championship, a once great competition which is now in terminal decline. Nothing has been addressed there to make the competition fairer, whether Dublin lost to Galway or not in the QF. Nothing "generational" about that. It should never have been allowed come to this but it has and drastic action is now needed. How do you propose improving Leinster otherwise?

Charlo30

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122498731#Comment_122498731

You talk of Leinster being a once great competition. But beyond a 5/6 year period in the late 90/early 00's, The Leinster Championship has been sown up between 3 counties for the guts of 50 years. Which suggests that the above period was the exception not the rule.

Tell me what are you suggestions to improve the Munster Championship. Which Kerry have dominated for the last 70/80 years

jack67

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122498719#Comment_122498719

Actually everything you post in this thread is anti Dublin

No other County has gained more than Kerry in advantages leading to Handy All Irelands etc , but again this thread is going around in circles , all this and more has been mentioned over and over again

Your anti Dublin posts can't and won't be ignored , and i'm not one bit upset thanks

So once again this thread is going around in circles , time to shut it down , enough is enough .

jack67

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122498731#Comment_122498731

How do you propose to improve Munster ?

Nothing has been addressed , it's a **** show and by god after over 100 years and in your own words drastic action is most definitely needed.

But as i have already mentioned , all this has already been talked to death and is going around in circles .

gaffer91

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122498814#Comment_122498814

But even 3 counties being competitive is far, far better than the absolute shambles that is the Leinster Championship today. Plus prior to 2005, it was getting even more competitive for the 10 years before then. So it was a much better competition in the past, it has clearly deteriorated by quite a lot.

You haven't given any proposals for improving the Leinster Championship by the way despite demanding that I account for the Munster Championship, which has nothing to do with this thread? But I will answer anyway. One thing I would do to help the Munster Championship is I'd split Dublin into multiple teams. This will greatly increase the fairness of all aspects of the All-Ireland competition, including the Munster championship. This will increase interest and participation across all counties. Another thing I'd do is pool all sponsorship funding centrally and distribute more equally. The current set-up is quite unfair, where counties like Dublin are completely overfunded relative to everyone else, from the GAA, the Irish government and their sponsors. But pooling of funding would apply to all counties, not just Dublin.

Another important thing to realise about Munster, and all other parts of inter-county football, is that no other county has the unfair advantages that Dublin do. That's why it's so important to deal with them, as their situation is completely unique. Counties like Kilkenny dominating in hurling wasn't so important, as it wasn't coming from an unfairly advantaged position. This hasn't been the case with Dublin.

gaffer91

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122498845#Comment_122498845

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122498876#Comment_122498876

Eh, no it's not. I haven't blamed Dublin for anything, I've proposed measures that help them and all counties so none of that can be considered "anti-Dublin". You've yet to answer why you don't want other people to discuss this issue? As before, if it upsets you, you can just not participate yourself. No need to try and impose your will on everyone else, they can make their own decisions.

As with Charlo30, you haven't answered as to how you'd deal with Leinster yet are demanding I answer irrelevant questions about Munster! As I like to be accommodating though, I have answered, please see my post to him. In short, splitting Dublin and pooling sponsorship money would help there.

Charlo30

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122499103#Comment_122499103

Ok. That's me out. Debating with you is like trying to pick up mercury with a fork

jack67

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122499126#Comment_122499126

What you propose is nonsense , ain't gonna happen and is 100% anti Dublin

As for not participating , eh and let you spout your anti Dublin nonsense ,i think not

It is you who has being trying to oppose your will on this thread over and over again

Its time to move on , there's nothing new being added to this thread and it has run its course

Ditto you should take your own advice , if you don't like what your hearing you can stop participating.

gaffer91

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122499237#Comment_122499237

It's not nonsense, it probably won't happen in the short term and it's not anti-Dublin. So max of one third of that sentence is correct. I'm happy for you to continue participating in our friendly discussion, no issues with a frank exchange of views (and tbh I may convince you eventually). I just don't understand why you want the thread closed rather than just not participating yourself. Others can discuss things if they see fit. As I said before, while it can be repetitive, it's often different people participating and realising the issues with Dublin alone being favoured by the GAA. The evidence is overwhelming so the longer the discussion goes on, and the more people that read it, the better if you ask me.

jack67

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122499888#Comment_122499888

Oh but it is nonsense, correction it definitely won't in the short term and not in the long term either.

The thread should be closed as there is nothing new being discussed , it just goes around in circles with you constantly repeating yourself

I agree the evidence is overwhelming , Kerry have had a unique advantage for over 100 years and have made a jokeshop out of Munster

Lets start by putting them into Connaught for a few years ,and let Munster recover.

.

gaffer91

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122500193#Comment_122500193

I think they probably will in the long-term or the game will be irreparably damaged. The discussion has died down a bit in recent years, true, but to me that's wrong because the issue was not Dublin's success, but more that they were obtaining that success from a uniquely unfairly advantaged platform. I don't think any of us wants to see the All-Ireland go the same as Leinster as over the last 20 years! That would be a disaster for the GAA, including Dublin.

You've yet to answer about why you want others to not be allowed discuss things? If you think it's going round in circles, it's easy to ignore. You've also yet to give proposals as to what you would like to done to reform the shambles that is the Leinster Championship? Despite me giving proposals for what I would do for Munster.

jack67

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122501537#Comment_122501537

No i think they won't long or short term

Likewise i don't think anyone wants Leinster to go the same way as Munster , Kerry dominating for 100 years also a disaster for Kerry and the GAA

No problem with people wanting to discuss things, however when the same things are being mentioned over and over again by the same poster its time to say enough is enough, this is my opinion , if you don't like this ,please feel free to hit the ignore button.

As for my opinions on Leinster , I would move Dublin into Connaught along with Kerry .But that's not going to happen either .

randd1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122501653#Comment_122501653

Or…

Base the national leagues on the provinces, and base the Championship/Tailtean Cup on the league?

Munster - 6 teams, Round Robin. Top two to final. 6 Rounds total in province, including final.

Leinster - Two groups (6 & 6 (London into Leinster instead of Connaught)). Round Robin. Top two of each group into SF's. 7 Rounds total in province, including final.

Ulster - Two groups of 5 & 4. Crossover league, so group with 4 each play the 5 teams of other group, and group of 5 each play the 4 teams of other group. Top two of each group into SF's. 7 Rounds total in province, including final.

Connaught - 6 teams, Round Robin. Top two to final. 6 Rounds total in province, including final.

So that's 8 teams into Provincial finals, and from there League SF's and League final. Teams 3&4 of Munster and Connaught, and the third placed teams of the two groups in Leinster and Ulster (8 teams in total) into National Shield QF's (open draw).

Max number of games is 9. Ten week run off time, with one week off in between. Provincial finals/Shield QF's begin the same weekend.

3 weeks between league/shield finals and the Championship/Tailteann Cup.

Then onto the Championship.

Championship - 2 groups of 8. Top 2 to QF's. Playoffs are teams 3&6 and 4&5 of opposite groups. Bottom team of each group relegated. 2nd bottom of each group in relegation playoff, loser relegated.

Tailtean Cup - 2 groups of 8. Top 2 to QF's. Playoffs are teams 3&6 and 4&5 of opposite groups. Bottom two teams of each group gone. SF losers in promotion playoff.

7 Rounds of round robin in the Championship, with one week off after round 4. Week are the playoffs. Week off. Championship/Tailteann Cup QF's. Week off. Championship/Tailteann Cup SF's. Week off. Championship/Tailteann Cup Finals.

Tailtean Cup SF's are curtain raiser to AISF's. Tailtean Cup finals played the day before the AI final.

Simples.

No more arguments about provinces helping/hindering teams. Simple structures. New York conundrum solved (they play in the provincial season but not the Tailteann Cup, due to travel requireements.

And if the AI final was played in the first Sunday in August, the whole season would start in February instead of January, and still have the split season.

tritium

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122501537#Comment_122501537

I think we all agree we want the all Ireland to be competitive, and indeed the vision of the GAA with the Dublin project some years ago was a step in the right direction. It went some way to balance the huge unfair advantages Kerry had enjoyed for over a century by allowing a county, with vision and a plan, to begin to develop their potential. This was hugely important given the game had been in danger of dying in Dublin, and lo and behold once a team was given an at least somewhat level playing field against the Kerry juggernaut they managed to overcome them, becoming the greatest team in the history of the game with a brand of slick attacking football that led to Six in a row glory- a redefining of the game from the lump it up the field tactics that had been successful for teams in the 70s

the problem of course is that too many Leinster counties haven’t fulfilled their potential, with Meath and Kildare routinely being hammered by teams like Kerry, with their host of unfair advantages, and even by strong teams from other provinces. Thankfully the GAA has been working in recent years to develop those counties too. I’d look forward to a Leinster championship that produced two or three AI contenders similar to Ulster

in the short term though there should be a rejigged provincial with Dublin and Kerry paired and rotated between Munster and Leinster to give room to other counties in those provinces every second year. The thought of teams like Limerick being successful in football genuinely excites me - hard to believe that proud county had two all Irelands before Kerry ever had a sniff of one, and before the deck was stacked in Munster

In parallel stadiums in Leinster need to be developed to the level of other provinces to remove the reliance on Croke Park and reap the benefits of resurgent crowds. The GAA should be aiming for 4 or more 25k stadia in Leinster, including Parnell Park to develop a suitable home venue for Dublin and remove the need for them to play in Croker at the behest of the Leinster Council. It would be expensive of course but the GAA have a history of supporting such initiatives.

gaffer91

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122501653#Comment_122501653

The problem with comparing other provinces with Leinster is that no other province has the set-up which Leinster does, where Dublin alone are favoured over every other county. Plus Dublin's dominance since 2005, and in particular since 2011 is unprecedented in any province. This is what people mean when people say that Leinster is a shambles.

Moving Dublin into Connaught won't solve anything- it'll just mean that Connaught teams are exposed to Dublin's unfair advantages for the Provincial Championship, rather than Leinster ones. But the underlying unfairness will remain the same. The issue in Leinster isn't with other teams, it's with Dublin.

gaffer91

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122502507#Comment_122502507

Look you have given this some thought but tbh it won't be positive for inter-county football. In fact, due to the number of low-consequence games, persistence of mismatches, it may exacerbate some of the existing issues.

Supporters want fewer, but higher-quality games. They want games to be more consequential. They want more attacking, less defensive football. They want Dublin alone to be split into multiple teams. They want equalisation in funding. They want the traditional skills that made the game a spectacle on full display. Reforms need to reflect these realities rather than introducing more low-consequence games.

gaffer91

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122504430#Comment_122504430

Definitely agree with making the All-Ireland competitive. And I desperately want Leinster to get out of its rut and become the great competition it once was. Both of these would be helped enormously by Dublin being split up. The Dublin project was good in the sense that it provided funding for Games Development. What people have an issue with is Dublin alone again being favoured, rather than a more equitable distribution of funding across the country. Especially given that this funding was provided in a context where Dublin were overfunded elsewhere from sponsors, the Irish government etc. Plus have all the other unfair advantages we've discussed.

The game was definitely not on the verge of dying out in Dublin so in that sense there was no need to favour them alone. And the games development funding, while it contributed to Dublin's successes down the line, definitely didn't contribute to a good brand of football. It's clear that most supporters don't like the dour, negative style that Dublin introduced and perfected in the latter part of the 2010s of 15 men behind the ball, no high-fielding, only taking easy shots, endless handpassing- that's why so many people have been critical of this style of play!

Leinster hasn't been rejigged unfortunately, and even if it was in terms of games development funding, it hasn't been equalised from all sources. Sadly, it may be too late to fix Leinster now as the interest may be permanently gone because the domination from a platform of unfair advantages has just for too long. You've yet to provide evidence for how other provinces are unfair also? As before, a period of success doesn't necessarily mean unfairness (see Kilkenny from 2006-12). Whereas a lack of success doesn't mean a team isn't unfairly advantaged- see Dublin this year or even Dublin throughout its history, particularly from 2005! So rejigging provinces won't fix things, it'll just result in different counties being exposed to Dublin's unfair advantages.

There's no need for new stadiums in Dublin- it'd cost a fortune and take too long, there are much better uses for the money. Croke Park/ Parnell Park can be shared by Dublin divisional sides. The issue is more Dublin using Croke Park for NFL games- there was potentially an argument for Croker not being Dublin's home ground until that became routine. Although attendances in Leinster are plummeting so rapidly that Dublin can potentially use Parnell Park for games in both NFL and Championship soon!

jack67

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122505401#Comment_122505401

Kerry have been advantaged and favoured for over 100 years

Kerry's dominance in Munster is unprecedented 85 Munster titles

Kerry's dominance in the All Ireland is unprecedented 38 All Irelands

Moving Kerry into Connaught along with Dublin would help all the other Counties in Leinster and Munster challenge for silverware and help them recover from the dominance of Dublin and Kerry .

It would also help Kerry in the All Ireland series from going in under cooked

The issue in Munster isn't the other Counties it's with Kerry .

Rosita

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122499103#Comment_122499103

Kilkenny's dominance in Leinster is definitely coming from an unfairly advantaged position.

It is the only county which is not required to put resources, playing, coaching, sponsorship, promotion, into both hurling and football. No requirement to fund a football team playing in the National League which in Wexford's case involves a trip to London this year. All funds goes towards their hurlers, and they benefit in the long run from the suppression of any football tradition.

All their competitor hurling counties have won/been in Senior provincial finals in recent decades so the knee-jerk "what do Tyrone do for hurling?" response doesn't touch the sides of the question of actual playing advantage against competitor teams.

You picked a bad example. Might be more interesting to see you actually not constantly avoid the Kerry in Munster-shaped elephant in the room question. The problem, and it's why this debate is never-ending (even after the 10 in a row predictions in the early posts on this thread have been shown to be BS and those who argued it was simply a generational team proven correct) is that you will never accept that Dublin's funding is not an issue.

By arguing that dominance is okay once it's not connectible (by you) to funding is an apparently clever ruse to stick rigidly to the Dublin argument. But it's fairly transparent too.