The Dominance of Dublin GAA *Mod warning post#1*

gaffer91

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122520023#Comment_122520023

It is significantly different- it's significantly more. There's no way you could have read the arguments and concluded that. And then factor in sponsorship funding, money from the Irish government etc. And also recall that Dublin's population is so much of an outlier that that alone is grounds for a split- not more funding.

gaffer91

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122520600#Comment_122520600

No, Dublin alone should be split. It's because Dublin alone have the unique combination, nature, scale and duration of unfair advantages in population, funding, playing at home etc. As they're the only county which is a complete outlier, they're the only county which should be split.

It's not about hobbling a county, or even just because of their success, the destruction of the Leinster Championship etc- it's because their success has come via competing from an unfairly advantaged position. So Dublin alone should be split to help the GAA in all counties.

dunnerc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122523505#Comment_122523505

Ah this old chestnut rolled out again and again , but sure what's good for the goose and all that , so here we go again

I disagree Kerry alone should be split , 100 years of unfair advantages in Munster has to stop. Kerry have ruined Munster , its a basket case the lack of interest and support is killing the game down there.

jack67

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122523505#Comment_122523505

God almighty this poster has repeated this nonsense hundreds of times

Over and over again , nothing new to see here !!

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122523556#Comment_122523556

There are risks to splitting a county, it could cause a huge drop in interest. From a population perspective, the GAA couldn't afford to take that risk and lose the revenue from Dublin.

Much better that a more successful county with already established, recognised and supported divisions be split as a pilot project. If that is successful, and it will take a decade to find out, a merger of two unsuccessful counties could also be considered as another pilot (say Carlow and Wicklow) with a final reorganisation in about 20 years time affecting all counties following proof of concept.

With all those pieces in place, splitting Dublin could be part of the consideration.

dunnerc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122523622#Comment_122523622

Indeed there would be risks , but its a risk i feel the GAA should take . its the only way to save Munster and it would also revive interest in Kerry , agreed splitting Dublin could possibly be looked at years down the road , 20 years sounds just about right.

munster87

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122523739#Comment_122523739

why 20 years?

dunnerc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122523779#Comment_122523779

These things can't be rushed 😂

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122523779#Comment_122523779

The pilot proposals of splitting Kerry first, then merging Carlow and Wicklow, would need about ten years each to be fully assessed, before wider proposals for other mergers (Leitrim/Roscommon, Laois/Offaly, Longford/Westmeath) and other splits - Cork, Dublin, Galway - could then form part of a future full reorganisation.

A sensible approach to the issue addressing competitiveness rather than blaming one county.

gaffer91

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122523739#Comment_122523739

This is actually a massive breakthrough! You've now accepted there are circumstances where you are wiling for Dublin to be split. Blanch152 is the same, although he/she has accepted numerous times in the past that they are open to splitting Dublin. Whereas you've previously said Dublin should never be split. I did say people could be convinced to change their minds on this and it looks like I was right.

Whereas I have never accepted that any county other than Dublin should be split. This is because the unfair advantages that Dublin enjoy do not exist in any other county. That's why I say that Dublin alone should be split to enhance the prestige, integrity and fairness of inter-county gaelic games.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122523894#Comment_122523894

The objective isn't splitting Dublin, the objective is to improve the competitiveness of the All-Ireland Football Championship. That is where we differ.

You favour a singular vindictive approach focussed on the most recent successful team. That that team has now won only one All-Ireland in four years takes away the immediacy of focussing on them, as well as making it irrational to focus on just that one team and clearly shows the unbalanced emotional focus of your proposal. With a requirement to take a broader wider approach that looks at the overall competitiveness and includes mergers as well as a number of splits, looking at the most successful county overall for a split, and the least successful counties for candidates for a merger makes for an unbreakable logical outcome.

If the pilots of splitting Kerry, and merging of Carlow and Wicklow don't work out, nothing will really have changed as they will still be the most successful and least successful counties. Again, logic that is absent from all of your ranting.

dunnerc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122523894#Comment_122523894

Actually what i said was Splitting Dublin " could possibly be looked at " 20 years down the road, more than likely i would be 6 feet under by then lol….And again your wrong , Kerry have enjoyed unfair advantages for over 100 years , that's why Kerry alone should be split ,and wait for it , " TO ENHANCE THE PRESTIGE, INTEGRITY AND FAIRNESS OF INTER-COUNTY GAELIC GAMES ", I wonder how many times you have used these words ?😂

munster87

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122523890#Comment_122523890

Sounds good…could this thread be shut until then? Or at least discuss the county championship or something relevant?

dunnerc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122524069#Comment_122524069

Yes this thread could be shut until then ,unfortunately it probably won't be .

gaffer91

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122523982#Comment_122523982

Calm down, you seem to be getting riled, again. If the objective is to improve the competitiveness of the All-Ireland , to take a broader, wider approach, then you should favour splitting Dublin alone. As they are the only county uniquely unfairly advantaged. While I welcome you repeatedly stating that you are open to splitting Dublin, most of the rest of your proposals are wrong. Only Dublin should be split. Voluntary amalgamations can be considered too, as long as the split of Dublin is done on a mandatory basis.

gaffer91

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122524055#Comment_122524055

Exactly, you indicated you were open to splitting Dublin, under certain circumstances. This is a massive breakthrough. Whereas I have never indicated an openness to splitting any other county.

dunnerc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122524158#Comment_122524158

Again Kerry have been uniquely unfairly advantaged for over 100 years , Kerry should be split immediately "

 TO ENHANCE THE PRESTIGE, INTEGRITY AND FAIRNESS OF INTER-COUNTY GAELIC GAMES".

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122524167#Comment_122524167

That refusal to even consider other splits and amalgamations clearly demonstrates beyond doubt that your approach is based purely on an envious vindictive approach. My broader approach to solve the competitiveness issue has much more support on here because it is broadly based, because it is not negative towards any county, because it builds on existing structures.

tritium

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122524167#Comment_122524167

but your lack of openness to the problems the Kerry Monster has created over the last century and more is not the key factor. We can see the fans are clamouring for the increase in competition, prestige and fairness that would come with a Kerry split. Think of the benefits for the game in Munster, the massive influx of football supporters for Tipperary and Limerick for example, and the increased interest in the football championship in those counties.

and for Kerry the extending of the wearing of the Jersey to many players who never would otherwise. All the while under the banner of already established structures. Even from a stadium perspective it makes sense, with a range of large stadia available in Munster. All with a simple split to negate the toxic effects of a century plus of unique and unfair privilege.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122525337#Comment_122525337

Not only that, but it would boost football in Kerry too. Could you imagine the excitement in Dingle if West Kerry managed to get to a Munster final.

gaffer91

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122524649#Comment_122524649

We have consider other splits. I've correctly concluded they're not necessary as Dublin alone are uniquely unfairly advantaged- which is why Dublin alone should be split. You've already acknowledged your openness to splitting Dublin under certain circumstances so you clearly appreciate the argument has some validity. We've also considered amalgamations- I've correctly concluded they can be offered on a voluntary basis, after or in conjunction with a mandatory split of Dublin. So it's not vindictive- you're partisan and only want what you think is best for Dublin (despite a split helping Dublin). But if you truly take a broad based, non-partisan approach, it's obvious that given the unique circumstances that prevail in Dublin, their position as being solely unfairly advantaged in population, funding, playing at home etc, it's obvious that Dublin, and only Dublin, should be split.

gaffer91

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122525337#Comment_122525337

You need to take a step back here. Drop the Dublin partisanship and assess things in a neutral way. Dublin alone are complete outliers in population, far above the median population, multiple standard deviations away. Dublin alone are uniquely overfunded relative to everyone else, by whatever metric you want to look at. Dublin alone play almost all consequential games in their home stadium. There are other advantages and factors in their success, but these three reasons are the main things to consider when we say that Dublin are uniquely unfairly advantaged. No other county has these advantages in combination, in the scale that Dublin enjoy, had them persist for decades etc.

As transfers are exceedingly rare, a larger population results in a far larger playing pool, meaning more top-class footballers. The money helps to develop these players, among other things. Playing at home helps Dublin eke out victories in close games they might otherwise draw or lose.

So drop the partisan lens for a moment. If you assess these advantages properly, in a neutral, unbiased way, we see that Dublin alone should be split. As they are the only county uniquely unfairly advantaged. Contrary to what you think, this is actually a pro-Dublin position! All counties benefit from this, and while Dublin's benefits are different in certain ways to other counties, it would be very positive for the GAA in the county too. Supporters don't like Dublin competing from an unfairly advantaged position. The Leinster Championship is dying a death. If we split Dublin and disperse their unfair advantages, while not the only reform needed, it goes a long to fixing the issues for the GAA.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122527022#Comment_122527022

Nonsense, I have conceded that there is a competitiveness issue in the All-Ireland Championship, not that Dublin should be split.

Since 1960, only 11 of 33 teams have won the All-Ireland, many of them only once or twice. Kerry have won 38 out of 137, nearly 30% of all titles. To bring competitiveness and fairness to the competition, something has to be done about Kerry, to take away the long-standing unfair advantages that they have had.

As I said already, splitting Kerry for 20 years won't erase their lead at the top of the winners chart, they will still be the leading county. It will also help Kerry as it is clear that supporters there have lost interest. If the splitting up of the leading county works, and only if, then we can consider splitting the next few counties on the leaderboard - Dublin, Galway and Cork. It is a non-partisan approach, based on evening up the competition.

Lost Ormond

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122527053#Comment_122527053

But the problem is no counties are fairly differentiated by population size. So unless you change up all counties then there will be differences between counties. That's life/sport.

Dublin do play most of their games in croke park but with changes to competition formats play more away now in the all ireland series. Hard to suggest changes so they play more away from croke park.

All counties don't get an advantage from a Split Dublin. As counties that don't make last 8 regularly or much at all will now have another stronger team than them so their pathway to that level is now harder.

Leinster is dying a death but you just put blame on Dublin and don't look at other reasons. Dublin are not the reason that leinster only had 1 team competing in division 1 of nfl for years. Or drop in standards from other counties

dunnerc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122527022#Comment_122527022

And once again your incorrect Kerry have been uniquely unfairly advantaged for over 100 years !

dunnerc

You need to step back and take the anti Dublin blinkers off , then you will see it is Kerry who have been unfairly advantaged for over 100 years , and so Kerry alone should be split .

tritium

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122527053#Comment_122527053

you accuse everyone else of having a partisan lens yet you have shown yourself to be completely unwilling to address the longer lasting and more egregious issues that exist in Munster. How are the issues in the GAA fixed by reverting to a status quo whereby Kerry, aided by a wide range of historical and unfair advantages, romp to Munster title after Munster title and then have a handy skip along to another all Ireland final?

granted it’s easy to pretend as one poster chimed in that “they’re just good” when the inequity and bias has persisted for so long- it almost becomes part of the fabric of the sport that Kerry are just given these advantages. I can actually understand and sympathise why you, as a Kerry person, would have a blind spot to this. But you having a blind spot doesn’t make everything OK. Restoring a status quo just so your county can start winning again isn’t fair and isn’t OK anymore. And make no mistake that’s exactly what you’re calling for without advocating a mandatory, wider national level change in structure that reins in Kerry’s inherently unfair advantages. Thats exactly what you’re advocating with hand waving waffle about how we could revisit everything else on a voluntary basis down the line. No sane assessment could conclude that Gaelic football was healthy and competitive before dublins GOAT team came along. It’s inherently ridiculous to imply that monopoly has greater levels of competition and fairness for all than a duopoly or an even more diverse spread. Yet that’s exactly what you're proposing here.

gaffer91

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122527247#Comment_122527247

You've conceded multiple times that there are certain circumstances where you are willing to see Dublin split. You do in this post also. You've also stated numerous times you are open to splitting Dublin immediately, not with a lead-in period- you know this, but I'm happy to pull a few posts for you if you'd like. Whereas I have never conceded that anyone other than Dublin should be split. So you can see some merit in my argument, but I cannot see any merit in yours.

As before, you are focusing on the outputs. What is more important are the inputs- are teams competing fairly? In Dublin's case the answer is a resounding no. They are uniquely unfairly advantaged in population, funding, home pitch advantage etc. So the issue is coming from success coming from an unfairly advantaged position. Or just competing from an unfairly advantaged position as Dublin do is a problem- even though they didn't win the All-Ireland this year, lost in their home stadium vs Galway, they are still unfairly advantaged. That's why Dublin alone should be split. By contrast, nobody had an issue with Kilkenny's success- because they aren't uniquely unfairly advantaged like Dublin are.

dunnerc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122528011#Comment_122528011

There is no merit in anything you say , Kerry alone should be split , over 100 years of unfair advantages!

gaffer91

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122527355#Comment_122527355

Yes, there are discrepancies in population but nothing of the scale of Dublin's advantage. For instance, the gap between Dublin and Cork is larger than the gap between Cork and Leitrim in absolute terms! Plus Dublin are multiples of the mean or median population, are many standard deviations away from the norm. Minor discrepancies can be tolerated but not ones of this scale. As I've stated before, it is the unique combination, nature, scale and duration of unfair advantages that Dublin enjoy that mean they should be split, not just one of these things individually.

Dublin still play finals, semi-finals in their home stadium. If Dublin were forced back into Parnell Park for say NFL games then maybe it would be easier to tolerate but unfortunately the GAA has allowed this unfair state of affairs to develop and persist for decades now- hence why we have reluctantly concluded that this, combined with their other unfair advantages, means they need to be split to rectify things for the good of the game.

All counties benefit from splitting Dublin as it enhances the prestige, integrity and fairness of the competition because one county alone is no longer uniquely unfairly advantaged by the GAA. Every county who participates in the competition benefits. If your argument is that Dublin divisional sides will still be too strong, this is an argument for a larger split, as it shows how unfair the status quo is! Regardless, even multiple Dublin divisional sides will be better for the competition, especially for the smaller teams who have no hope currently.

I don't "blame" Dublin for Leinster as not 1% of the current dire situation is their fault- it's the GAA's. But interest and participation is dwindling in Leinster because Dublin alone have been uniquely unfairly advantaged. Supporters and players to a lesser extent just don't want to participate in such an unfairly stacked competition and tbh, I can't say I blame them.