The Dominance of Dublin GAA *Mod warning post#1*

dunnerc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121662739#Comment_121662739

Pot kettle black 🙄

gaffer91

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121662206#Comment_121662206

I mean, you can "point out" that the sky is green and that grass is blue but that doesn't make it accurate. To anyone with a neutral interpretation of the situation, it's obvious and has been proven that Dublin are unfairly advantaged in population, funding, playing at home vs everyone else. These are advantages in sport, including the GAA, there is no doubt about it. I alone am not the arbitrator but I'm just someone who can see things in a neutral way, unlike many of the hyper-partisan fans who cannot even bring themselves to admit Dublin are advantaged, never mind split! Nobody thinking rationally and fairly can take that view seriously.

gaffer91

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121662230#Comment_121662230

Well we'd have to see how what the funding breakdown was for the hurlers. We do know Dublin has a population advantage- as I said before, and the GAA formerly did long before Dublin's current success, population alone is grounds for a two-way split for Dublin, All-Irelands or not. It's sadly only the decades of overfunding and other advantages that mean that now a 4+ split is necessary.

Billy_the_Kid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121662783#Comment_121662783

Is population alone grounds to split New York?

dunnerc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121662783#Comment_121662783

And again more nonsense from this Kerry poster , we do know CORK KERRY GALWAY MAYO etc have population advantage and funding advantage over Leitrim Longford Carlow etc , but he is not interested in this , all he is interested in is weakening Dublin , to help his own County Kerry dominate , your only fooling yourself you jealous bitter little Kerry Man .

dunnerc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121662774#Comment_121662774

Its obvious Kerry Cork Galway Mayo etc are unfairly advantaged over Leitrim Longford Carlow etc there is no doubt about it, you are just someone who wants there County which is "KERRY" to dominate , You don't care about weaker Counties , think about the poor Waterford Clare Limerick supporters dominated by the Kerry for more than a century , a level playing field you claim you want ? only answer is to Split Kerry .

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121662774#Comment_121662774

But unfortunately, because of where you are from, you don't have a neutral interpretation of the situation and neither can you see things in a neutral way.

I have previously proposed the splitting of both Dublin and Kerry (at least) to be accompanied at the same time by amalgamations of other counties as a possible way to rebalance the All-Ireland Championship and would lead to a much leveller playing field than your biased approach.

gaffer91

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121662835#Comment_121662835

No, Dublin alone should be split. We're talking about Gaelic Gaelic which are generally only played by Irish people. (Before anyone says, I am aware 15-20% of the population in Dublin is foreign-born; even accounting for this Dublin have an enormous advantage and this is reflected in playing numbers. If we want to dig into minutiae, we should look at playing-age player pool which favours Dublin even more than other counties, providing yet more reasons for them alone to be split)

gaffer91

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121662948#Comment_121662948

I do- it's because I can see things in a neutral way that I want Dublin to be split. As I've said before I don't mind teams winning fairly, it's only when the success comes from an unfairly advantaged position, as Dublin's has, that I have an issue with it.

Voluntary amalgamations can be offered but Dublin should be split regardless, for the good of the game. This is because Dublin alone are uniquely unfairly advantaged. This is what would really improve the All-Ireland competition.

dunnerc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121663000#Comment_121663000

No if Dublin is to be split Kerry and possibly a few more would have to be split also, we should look at the Munster situation 84 Munster titles total domination yet more reasons for Kerry to be split .

dunnerc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121663009#Comment_121663009

Because you want Kerry to be the dominant County is why you want Dublin split , as i have said before 84 Munster titles alone is reason enough for Kerry to be split

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121663009#Comment_121663009

Nonsense, it is absolutely 100% clear now that you have zero interest in a level-playing field.

dunnerc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121663088#Comment_121663088

Agreed blanch its as clear as day what this guy is up to , a level-playing field !! as you say Nonsense .

mobby

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121663009#Comment_121663009

"Dublin are uniquely unfairly advantaged" Would you get up the yard? for years Kerry would have to play one maybe serious game in Munster, into a AL semi-get an Ulster team when Ulster was the poor relation of the GAA into a final and then anything could happen (thank you Mr. Aldridge 78) The not-quite-so-cute Kerry man has been found out.

gaffer91

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121663253#Comment_121663253

Once again, as I've explained before, you are just looking at the outputs (i.e. success) and not the inputs into that success. So it's not the fact teams are successful or not, it's whether that success has come from a fair or unfair position. In Dublin's case, we have conclusively determined that their success has come from an unfair position due to the unique combination, scale, nature and duration of the advantages they have enjoyed and continue to enjoy in population, funding, home pitch and other areas. There are discrepancies between other counties but Dublin alone are a complete outlier in all of these areas. So if they were winning fairly, I and other wouldn't mind but this has been shown to not be the case. Kerry don't enjoy these advantages over other Munster teams. Similarly, not winning doesn't mean you aren't unfairly advantaged- Dublin were always unfairly advantaged due to their population advantage, even before their current success, they just didn't (fully) capitalise on it but it was still an unfair advantage.

I do agree Provincials should be abolished- should have happened decades ago and look at what an uncompetitive shambles Leinster in particular has become since Dublin's funding advantage has taken off. But whatever happens to the Provincial Championships, Dublin should 100% be split for the benefit of the GAA.

dunnerc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121664244#Comment_121664244

Once again ,as i have explained many many times in Kerry's case , we have conclusively proven that there success has come from an unfair advantage , due to there unique combination nature and duration being in Munster and there population and funding advantage over Leitrim Longford Carlow etc , now if Kerrys success was won fairly , i and others wouldn't mind , but this has been shown not to be the case

The provincials should be abolished , it should have happened decades ago , look at what an uncompetitive shambles Munster in particular has been for over 100 years , Kerry 84 Munster titles helping them winning 38 All Ireland titles from an unfair advantage compared to Ulster in Particular

Yeah Right

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121662753#Comment_121662753

You avoided answering the question by referring to previous answers that had SFA to do with the question.

I pointed this out to you, citing it as an example of how you avoided answering questions and asked you to answer it again.

Your answer was "I've already answered that".

Now that I've pulled you up on THAT response, your reply, to absolutely nobody's surprise, you're claiming it has already been answered.

You have to be extracting the urine with this nonsense.

gaffer91

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121664759#Comment_121664759

But you were lying when you said I hadn't answered the question, just as you lied when I said I hadn't answered questions previously. I had answered the question. For instance, you asked me to say what I thought the new odds would be for Leitrim after a split and I selected one of your three options, and explained why for good measure. You then lied and said I didn't answer the question. When this was pointed out, you just ignored the response. As I said, you seem to live in your reality. I'm happy to keep explaining things to you, it is good to inform you but you should actually engage with the issues rather than just continuing to lie and lie.

But like this is a side issue. The main thing is Dublin win based off an unfairly advantaged platform of massive population, funding and home pitch advantages over every other county. They should be split to disperse these advantages into several teams rather than concentrating them into one. This enhanced prestige, integrity and fairness will benefit every county who takes place in the competition.

NJSC1980

This is gone beyond cringeworthy now. It’s a terrible idea; I’d be embarrassed were I a Kerry man and this were the way I wished to take the Dubs down. The great Kerry team of the 70’s and 80’s went toe to toe with a great Dublin team and more often than not came out on top and ultimately won that war. That’s what Kerry should be aspiring to do again.

Like them or not; Dublin are going nowhere and rightly so.

Yeah Right

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121662739#Comment_121662739

You posted a whole pile of meandering shite that had NOTHING to do with the question. Nothing. The status quo has nothing to do with their chances in the scenario posted, which was a hypothetical based on the status quo changing. You deliberately tried to muddy the waters by prefacing your answer with a wghole host of irrelevant crap. I specifically asked you to answer 1, 2 or 3, which you eventually attempted to do, but made a complete balls of it.

You're again ignoring the devastating impact of the continuation of the status quo- Dublin win unfairly, interest and competitiveness drop and the game withers away like the Railway Cup (or even the Leinster Championship)- in this case, Letirim's chances would disimprove, if the competition even continued to exist. So taking your highly contrived scenario, Leitrim would go to 90/1 after a split and things would get even better for them from there, as it would for all counties, including Dublin.

You've said they would go to 90/1. You didn't elaborate on that at all, you just said they'd go to 90/1 without any justification or rationale behind it. You're literally just picking the option which says you were right but not giving anything to back it up.

So here's another question for you to avoid. Why do you think their chances would improve? Why is it more likely for them to get out of Connaught if there are more teams in Leinster? The overall competition has no bearings on this, now, remember? this is just Connaught. Why would more Dublin teams mean either have better chances at getting out of the provincial Championship, please?

So, as you can see, you HAVEN'T answered it, not really. You just picked an answer because that's the one you want it to be.

gaffer91

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121664849#Comment_121664849

Not at all, if Dublin were winning fairly I wouldn't mind but sadly this is not the case for Dublin. This reform I'm proposing is not about helping any county or harming any particular one- it's just about doing what is best for the GAA as a whole. Dublin will benefit tremendously from this change, just as everyone else will. I do wish other reforms would be effective but the unfair status quo has gone on long that unfortunately this is the best option available now.

gaffer91

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121664959#Comment_121664959

I've already comprehensively addressed this but happy to do so again. First of all, thanks for accepting that you lied when you falsely claimed I hadn't answered this question, we are making progress! The preamble to my answer was highly relevant- it justified the argument as to why things would improve for Leitrim after a split. The elaboration is at the beginning, not at the end and the argument is logical, consistent and overwhelming as to why splitting Dublin helps Leitrim.

Again, you should take some time to reflect on how not splitting Dublin harms Leitrim- Dublin winning off of a platform of unfair advantages is intrinsically bad from a fairness perspective but it's also killing interest in the GAA. You refuse to engage with what happens if there is not a split- this is far worse for Leitrim and everyone else.

Leitrim's chances would improve as the prestige, integrity and fairness of the competition are enhanced following a split, for the reasons already given. To put it simply: Dublin continuing to be unfairly advantaged off a platform of unfair advantages => devastating for the competition, and may even kill it as a competitive interest (see the Leinster championship); Splitting Dublin to disperse their advantages and make everything more fair => very beneficial for all counties who compete, which of course includes Leitrim! As the provincials are a part of the overall All-Ireland, it helps this competition too. Without splitting Dublin, as competition and interest declines, less players take part, the competition may even stop eventually which makes it far less likely that Leitrim will get out of Connaught.

Please try to grapple with the issues this time! I know you don't like it but if I have previously answered a question which you then refuse to engage with, I will direct you to my previous response.

NJSC1980

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121665178#Comment_121665178

You have addressed SFA. Empty vessel making a whole pile of noise is all I’m seeing from you all along. Just because you keep saying something doesn’t make it true.

Yeah Right

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121664836#Comment_121664836

You didn't explain why. That's exactly the point. You just vomited up a whole pile of word salad, picked 90/1 and never explained your reasoning.

The number of teams playing in Leinster has nothing to do with a team's chances of making it out of Connaught.

You know this. Everyone does. You won't admit it, though, you're trying to claim black is white.

You might as well be trying to claim that Luke Littler's 9-darter the other day means Man City will find it harder to win the Champion's League. They are two separate competitions with zero correlation. You just picked the answer that you want to be true.

As I said. A Fraud. A charlatan even.

gaffer91

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121665196#Comment_121665196

I agree saying something alone doesn't make something true, that's why I and others have provided mountains of evidence in this thread around the impact of population, funding, playing at home, the scale of the differences in these areas for Dublin vs everyone else, why it matters for their dominance, the harms this does to the game, how splitting Dublin helps all counties etc.

gaffer91

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121665203#Comment_121665203

Please read my previous and subsequent posts. I have explained repeatedly why splitting Dublin helps Leitrim (and not just Leitrim, but all counties): intrinsically from a fairness perspective, helps them get out of Connaught, helps them compete in the All-Ireland, helps them in both the short and particularly the long-term.

You have yet to explain how leaving Dublin intact as a single entity and winning off a platform of unique unfair advantages helps Leitrim though! Which is the other side of this whole debate. Again, you are projecting, it's funny at times but very transparent.

Yeah Right

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121665178#Comment_121665178

I never accepted anything of the sort, please refrain from putting words in my mouth, thanks very much.

You never explained how it justifies the argument. You just claimed it did and never explored it further. You're comparing apples and oranges and coming up with whatever the fcuk fits your argument. This is intellectually dishonest.

This is like pulling teeth.......For the final time:

The amount, quality, types and makeup of the teams in Leinster has no bearing on the other provincial championships. None, whatsoever. They are separate competitions, completely independent of each other.

You've claimed multiple times that this isn't the case and when asked to explain why, you meander off on some bollocks about what effect the current status quo has on blah blah blah blah....... The truth of the matter is that splitting Dublin into (x) number of teams does nothing for the smaller counties. But you're still playing make believe that it does, because to admit otherwise shows your argument up for the pile of shite that it is.

Yeah Right

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121665252#Comment_121665252

I have read it. I've read all of them.

They don't make sense, so I asked you to elaborate.

I'm asking you to elaborate because you keep dodging the fcuking question, referring others to your previous answers, even thoguh the previous answers either a) don't answer the fcuking question either or b) consist of more "read my previous answers". You've done it again right now, with this post I'm quoting. ALL THE WHILE CLAIMING THAT YOU'RE NOT DODGNG QUESTIONS.

You have yet to explain how leaving Dublin intact as a single entity and winning off a platform of unique unfair advantages helps Leitrim though! Which is the other side of this whole debate. Again, you are projecting, it's funny at times but very transparent.

I never claimed that not splitting Dublin helps Leitrim. You're asking me to defend a position I never held.

You DID claim that splitting them helps Leitrim. So far, you've provided nothing of substance to back it up.

Can you see the difference?

gaffer91

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121665287#Comment_121665287

You tacitly accepted you lied. You initially claimed I refused to answer entirely, now you're accepting that this was not the case, which is gracious of you.

I've already answered this so please refer to my previous responses. A team winning unfairly and dominating in Leinster, the All-Ireland is terribly destructive to the competition. This is the status quo. As the provincials ultimately feed into the All-Ireland, taking steps to reduce this unfairness, such as by splitting Dublin, helps teams competing in the provinces and in the All-Ireland too, which the provincials feed into. Competitiveness and interest will increase as the unfairness declines, just as they decrease as the unfairness increases.

So they're not separate, they're all intertwined. As well as people just generally caring about fairness. So I have explained it, comprehensively, multiple times. So please try to grapple with this this time.

gaffer91

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121665308#Comment_121665308

You haven't read them properly or you have to re-read them to fully understand the message- as we saw with your false claims that I hadn't answered your question, which you now accept. If I have answered the question previously, I will refer you to that old answer (in fact, you can even refer to my old answers where I've previously said this!)

You failed to answer how not splitting Dublin helps Leitrim. I've asked you repeatedly and have even comprehensively addressed your repetitive questions, providing overwhelming evidence as to why splitting Dublin helps all counties (and by extension Leitrim). It's fair that you reciprocate now.