The Dominance of Dublin GAA *Mod warning post#1*

Yeah Right

You're stuck on repeat, saying the same crap every time. This does not make it true, no matter how many times you repeat it.

1. Dublins chances of winning the all Ireland are reduced if you split them. Reduced. This doesn't help them, it reduces their chances. You are stuck in some weird form of denial but cause you claimed the opposite, and are making stuff up to bolster that argument.

2. You don't want to benefit Dublin. You want to restrict their chances by splitting them up. You're making some bizarro argument that this helps them when it doesn't. And when the tables are turned, and it's suggested that we benefit other counties by splitting them up (which is your position, remember?) all of a sudden, no that's not gonna work.

3,4 and 5..... You're not even bothering to copy and paste any more. If you're not arsed replying then don't get your knickers in a twist when others do the same. It is plain as day that your replies to these questions are not based in logic or fairness or anything else other than spite and bitterness.

6. You haven't explained anything. Splitting Dublin doesn't help New York because they've never made it to the point where they might meet them in the competition. Same with Leitrim, only once in a century has that happened. So it has zero bearing on their respective campaigns. Zero. You're shiting on now about interest waning, but that's not what was being discussed. I've said why it's worse for those teams (more tier 2 teams) but you've no counterargument for that, so you ignored it. Your entire debating style is founded on being dishonest.

7. You've completely jumped the shark here. I asked you if Leitrims odds would be higher with a split Dublin in the competition or lower. You said "THe odds are improved.......Because, as stated before, without a split the game will slide into irrelevance so Leitrim won't even have a competition to compete in!"

First of all improved odds means they have a lower chance of winning (10/1 shot has a better chance at winning than a 20/1 shot. 20/1 is an improvement on 10/1). So thanks for making my point for me.

Secondly, if it was announced that the AI were to be cancelled from 2025, this would have zero bearing on the odds being offered for the 2024 championship. Zero. Literally no effect. To suggest otherwise is lunacy.

This is what I mean about your debating style. You haven't a clue what you're talking about, getting mixed up everywhere and muddying the waters (on purpose, a cynical person might suspect). You're changing the goalposts and cherry picking the bits and bobs you have an answer to (or think you have an answer to). You ignored the question about odds until recently and it's now blown up in your face.

"So you accept that, at the least, splitting Dublin helps every county except Dublin?

Yes. Of course I do. That's the entire basis of my argument, well that and the fact that it helps the smaller counties in negligible amounts (and hinders them in other ways) while vastly improving the chances of three other counties. I don't want it to happen, because it will destroy GAA in the capital. You want it to happen for the same reasons, no matter how hard you pretend otherwise. This will not help Dublin, it will kill them.

I've dealt with your questions again now, I'd appreciate if you could do the same for me

I already did, as above, see previous replies etc. Copy and paste, baby.

dunnerc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121602589#Comment_121602589

Your argument is full of contradictions , your questions are pure nonsense , Cork kerry Galway Mayo etc are hugely advantaged over Leitrim Carlow Longford etc ,you support what you think is best for your County , you dont give a monkeys about the weaker Counties no matter what evidence is presented

Players in Dublin will only play for Dublin , Dublin is and always will be a 1County team

As i've explained before splitting Dublin , would only help a handful of Counties "which yours is one of no doubt"

You dont give a monkeys about the prestige integrity and fairness of the game , your fooling no one as above all you care about is helping your own County by weakening Dublin

Guess what , your sad 13 year campaign has failed , it will never happen

So id appreciate if you would stop blindly posting the same rubbish out over and over again for the last 13 years

Now its fair that you for once and for all answer the question you have been asked

What County are you from ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

dunnerc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121602478#Comment_121602478

How can Kerry Mayo Tyrone Galway Monaghan etc compete with Dublin ? Stop the whinging lad

😏

dunnerc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121603369#Comment_121603369

I would like to see the provincials scrapped , open draw is worth a try .

gaffer91

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121603434#Comment_121603434

1. The Dublin county team will no longer exist but this is better than the status quo as unfortunately Dublin can take no pride in their recent success as it has come from a grossly unfairly advantaged position. If they won fairly I wouldn't mind but this is not the case. You asked how Dublin benefit from being split; among other things they benefit from a once completely unfair competition becoming far fairer.
2. I absolutely want to help Dublin, I want the game to thrive in all counties. Only Dublin are uniquely unfairly advantaged. Therefore only Dublin alone should be split. The benefits from splitting Dublin come from the reduction in unfairness that will result from spreading their unfair advantages across multiple teams instead of one. As no other single team has these advantages, there is no benefit from splitting them, unlike in Dublin's case
3. 3-5, I did reply, you just didn't deal with them hence no new response was needed. Again, try to actually read and internalise the responses rather than just coming back with the same things over and over. You're accusing me of doing the exact thing you are guilty of, it's funny but doesn't make for a good debate

6.Interest waning is bad for the competition. It does help them as as the fairness of the competition increases from splitting Dublin all teams participating benefit. Take a League 3 team competing in the FA Cup. Even if they don't win it, they benefit from knowing that the tournament hasn't been rigged in favour of one particular team. This is good but in and of itself but also because it maintains interest, which helps the competition in the longer term.

7.It's obvious what I meant, Leitrim have a better chance of winning the All-Ireland if Dublin are split. (Also, I don't accept that's what improved odds means, you're wrong again there. But that's a separate topic) It's a small benefit originally but at least the advantages will be split among numerous teams rather than concentrated into one as at present. The benefits wills become more apparent as the years progress. So there is a benefit to Letirim from splitting Dublin, in both the short and long term. But you don't care about Leitrim, you just use them as a tool to try and advance your failed argument. You've already acknowledged that splitting Dublin helps 31 out of 32 counties (it's really 32 out of 32 but it may take some more time for you to realise that). And as I've said before, not splitting Dublin definitely doesn't help Leitrim.

So to quote you, "This is what I mean about your debating style. You haven't a clue what you're talking about, getting mixed up everywhere and muddying the waters (on purpose, a cynical person might suspect). You're changing the goalposts and cherry picking the bits and bobs you have an answer to (or think you have an answer to)." While this incorrect in my case, this definitely applies to you unfortunately. The truth is you want Dublin alone to continue to be unfairly advantaged, acknowledging as you have that splitting them would benefit 31 counties; that alone should be grounds for a split as the net benefit is so clear, but it's really 32 counties benefiting so the case is even stronger. You should care more about the game as a whole, rather than just what benefits Dublin. And I don't accept that splitting Dublin will kill the game in the capital.

gaffer91

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121603572#Comment_121603572

I agree; scrap the provincials, equalise funding and split Dublin and inter-county football will be given a whole new lease of life.

dunnerc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121603638#Comment_121603638

No Dublin doesn't need to be split and wont be split , your 13 year campaign has failed

What County are you from ??????????????????????????

dunnerc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121603627#Comment_121603627

Of course splitting Dublin would kill the game in Dublin , it aint gonna happen your wasting your time 13 years of it lol.................

What County are you from ??????????????

Yeah Right

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121603627#Comment_121603627

I'll not be replying to you any more after this, we're going in circles, you're repeating the same crap every time (when you're not moving the goalposts) and just now you're resorting to "no you are" when this is all pointed out to you. It's like arguing with a child, so I'll be bowing out before I get baited into a ban.

1.Dublin won't exist, and that won't hinder their chances, according to you. Would you get up the yard. If the competition was unfair (according to you), then making it fair by removing Dublins advantage (again, this is your position) hurts their chances at winning. This is, according to you, good for Dublin.

2. Yeah you said all that already and weren't able to back it up when pushed further. I asked you why splitting Dublin is to their benefit and why splitting Kerry wouldn't and your response has been "because Dublin are uniquely advantaged in blah blah blah", which is a non-answer. Weasel words. You havent answered, because there is no world in which you can argue that splitting Dublin is for their own good while splitting Kerry isn't. It just doesn't make sense. You're trying to cover this up by showcasing some top notch ctrl+c / ctrl+v skills.

3. Three times I've told you that enhancing the prestige does nothing for competitiveness. Same with the integrity. Three times you've avoided acknowledging this point, because you've no rebuttal. Same with my comment about how it doesn't necessarily make it fairer either, but you've ignored that too.

4. HOW much more likely are they to get out of Connaught?........ "As above" is a bullshit attempt to avoid the question and doesn't cut it I'm afraid. Some meandering response about the overall fairness of the competition and a rising tide lifts all boats etc. but not once have you actually said they're more likely to get out of the province. Never mind how, which was the question asked, you've avoided actually saying they ARE more likely. Because they aren't. And you know that. You just can't spin enough bullshit to hide the fact.

5 HOW are they going to meet these subdivisional Dublin teams that are easier to beat?........more "as above" bolloxology. They're not going to meet them, because they can't get out of Connaught. They've only done so twice in a total of about 150 years. That's not Dublins fault, or anyone else's. You can pin the blame tail on some other donkey. Again, you cannot answer this straight and started shiting on about how overall fairness improves everything for every county..... Which has nothing to do with Leitrims failure to make it to a QF.

6. This question was originally about making it more competitive. You've twisted it now so that it's about interest waning in the competition. Bacause you have fcuk all else to say.

7. I asked if Leitrim would have worse odds if Dublin were split or better. You dodged the question first time round, then got all confused. Here's a simple example for you..... If Spain were removed from the FIFA World Cup and replaced by four separate Spanish teams, do you think it would be easier for Ireland to win the WC or harder? An increased number of better teams than you competing for the same prize means it's more difficult for you than before. Yeah, there's no more Spain/Dublin to contend with, but there's 4 times the chances of meeting another team that aren't quite as good but are still better than you.

The rest of your post is an attempt to derail the conversation. You don't believe any of that, you're literally copying what I'm saying (without any proof or evidence) and trying to turn it around on me. Hard luck, though I won't be falling for this trickery.

Have a nice life. Up the Dubs.

🎶 oh when the DUBS!....... GO UP! .....TO LIFT THE SAM MAGUIRE!.....OH WE'LL BE THERRRRRE......OH WE'LL BE THERRRRRE 🎵

StupidLikeAFox

"The split" is a handy little one to focus on for Dublin fans. It's never gonna happen, there is no real appetite for it in any serious gaa circles, and it provides a handy little diversion for Dublin fans to divert from all the other special treatment they have gotten over the past few decades

dunnerc

Agreed it's never gonna happen

Did you smash it

There’s no stadium in south Dublin for a split to play in so that’s a bit of a problem that seems to get ignored.

gaffer91

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121604185#Comment_121604185

Definitely don't bow on on my part, I'm happy to continue the discussion. The projection is quite noticeable in your case, you repeatedly accuse me of things you yourself are guilty of doing e.g. you answering "42" and then saying I don't answer questions which I have already responded/debunked several times in the past; just because you don't like an answer doesn't mean it isn't one.

1. As I said before, Dublin don't benefit from the status quo because there is no honour, integrity, prestige or fairness from winning titles unfairly.
2. I have answered and backed it up but here it is again in simple terms. One team, and one team only, Dublin, is unfairly advantaged. Splitting them reduces these advantages and helps all counties. As the circumstance of unfair advantages exists in their case only, there is no benefit from splitting any other team. So Dublin alone should be split as they are the only county from whom benefits result from a split.
3. You've stated it, yes, but you were wrong. As you might say, repeating something does not make it true! So I stand by my previous response. Enhancing the prestige, integrity and fairness of the competition will increase competitiveness, even if the benefits are only small to begin with. It'll increase as the years go by.
4. Ftr, I'm in favour of scrapping the provincials; it's not as important a reform as splitting Dublin but reforms to the GAA don't have to end there! To be clear though, yes, splitting Dublin will help Leitrim get out of Connaught because, as stated in answer 3 and previously overall competitiveness will be enhanced as the unfairness is reduced. This will help all teams to compete more. It will also help Leitrim if they reach the All-Ireland series for Dublin to be split as the unfair advantages are no longer concentrated in a single team! Plus you'd already acknowledged that splitting Dublin helps everyone except for Dublin, so you surely accept that Leitrim do benefit?
5. As for question 4
6. The two are interlinked, not mutually exclusive. Increased competitiveness results in increased interest, and vice versa. It's a virtuous circle. Decreased competitive results in decreased interest , and vice versa. It's a vicious circle. Not splitting Dublin is therefore bad for both competitiveness and interest.
7. It's not a proper analogy as (as best I know, because I don't watch soccer), Spain are not uniquely advantaged over every other team in terms of population, funding, playing at home. But if that was the case for Spain, then absolutely, splitting Spain would help Ireland. It would enhance Irish interest and competitiveness as the Irish team would know they are no longer playing in an unfair competition. This would have significant benefits in both the short and long term.

But as I said before, the main way I think you and others are going wrong is not being willing to accept the reality that Dublin are uniquely unfairly advantaged in terms of population, funding, money etc. Tbf, if they weren't and they were winning fairly then of course they shouldn't be split! That's not the case though. They are far ahead of any other county on any of these metrics individually so when you combine them together and make them persist over decades, we realise the GAA has created a real problem.

dunnerc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121604570#Comment_121604570

Kerry Cork Galway Mayo etc are unfairly advantaged over Leitrim Longford Carlow etc , splitting them reduces these advantages and helps all Counties. Enhancing the prestige, integrity and fairness of the competition will increase competitiveness .To be clear though splitting Dublin alone will only help a handful of Counties of which" i have no doubt your County is one of "

But as i said before , the main way i think you are going wrong is not willing to accept the reality that Kerry Cork Galway Mayo etc are unfairly advantaged in terms of population , funding , money etc over Leitrim Longford Carlow etc , the GAA has a real problem indeed !!

Still waiting to hear what County you are from ??

RoyalCelt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121603572#Comment_121603572

Most Leinster counties want to keep the provincials but without Dublin.

Monaghan, Mayo, Tyrone, Donegal if they were in Leinster losing every year to Dublin they'd lose motivation. They'd go into terminal decline like Leinster counties did.

Only Kerry would have a chance but they're by far pound for pound the best county in football.

RoyalCelt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121603694#Comment_121603694

Kill the game? Attendances have already plummeted especially Leinster. No better time to reset when the public in Dublin have lost interest pre semi final stage. Either way even if Dublin were split they shouldn't be in Leinster. They're a province in all aspects.

dunnerc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121604809#Comment_121604809

Best solution is scrap provincials and have an open draw , but it's all only opinions on here

Billy_the_Kid

Any detail on how you would split Dublin into 4 teams - 2 northside & 2 southside?

gaffer91

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121604243#Comment_121604243

Yeah tbh perhaps sometimes we do overfocus on the split. The split is only necessary because of the unfair advantages Dublin enjoy over everyone else- the funding from the GAA and the government, from their sponsors that vastly outstrips every other team; playing finals and semi-finals in their home stadium that the GAA spent millions building, their playing pool being vastly larger than the likes of Cork, itself a big outlier. What's strange is that some partisan Dublin fans just can't seem to accept that these issues are in fact advantages which is bizarre. Even if they don't win every year, they absolutely are unfairly advantaged.

So we need to accept the truth that Dublin are unfairly advantaged over every other county and then discuss how we deal with it. If Dublin weren't unfairly advantaged, nobody, including me, would want them to be split! But this is clearly not the case.

gaffer91

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121605178#Comment_121605178

That would be a discussion for later; it wouldn't be particularly hard to do and perhaps could be even more than 4 teams if there are more benefits to the GAA as a whole from a larger split.

Billy_the_Kid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121606900#Comment_121606900

How can you claim something would be beneficial without any idea of how it would work in practice...Does the split include hurling? Will there be 3 new county grounds built? Is there 4 separate club championships within Dublin?

dunnerc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121606882#Comment_121606882

You over focus on the split 13 years of it 🙄the splits are only necessary because of the unfair advantages Kerry Cork Galway Mayo enjoy over Leitrim Longford Carlow etc , the funding from the GAA and there sponsors vastly outstrips these Counties ,Finals and Semi finals are played in Croke Park which is in Dublin , what's strange is a weird poster on here who refuses to say what County he is from just cant seem to accept that the Cork Kerry Galway Mayo issues are in fact advantages which is bizarre , they beat these Counties 99% of the time so they are unfairly advantaged

So we need to accept the truth that Cork Kerry Galway Mayo etc are unfairly advantaged over Leitrim Longford Carlow etc and then discuss how we deal with it, if Cork Kerry Galway Mayo etc weren't unfairly advantaged nobody including me would want them split! But this is clearly not the case .

And once again What County are you from ?

dunnerc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121606900#Comment_121606900

This clearly wont happen , your 13 year campaign of nonsense has failed lol....

What County are you from ?

gaffer91

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121607175#Comment_121607175

We do have any idea as to how it would work in practice; the currently Dublin inter-county team would be split into multiple divisional sides which would then compete in the All-Ireland instead. Just the particulars of which club would fall into which team haven't been ironed out yet (and would of course be dependent on the number of divisional sides it is deemed best for the GAA for Dublin to be split into, a 4-way split would be different to a 5-way split for instance). The split probably would include hurling (as before, just because they don't win every year doesn't mean they aren't unfairly advantaged) but perhaps could be a smaller split as I'm unsure how much of the funding was routed their way. No need for new county grounds. Separate club championships could be considered but we could probably yield to the desire of locals clubs in Dublin on that one- it would be of critical importance that any potential split would be as beneficial as possible to the GAA within Dublin.

So as I said, these are just minor details. The most important thing is that the unfair advantages are recognised and dealt with.

dunnerc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121607337#Comment_121607337

The most important thing is that the unfair advantages Kerry Cork Galway Mayo have over Leitrim Longford Carlow etc are recognised and dealt with . What County are you from ?

RoyalCelt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121604968#Comment_121604968

But you can do that and keep the provincials. The only time a team other then Dublin would have a chance of winning would be if they held it earlier in the season before Dublin would take it seriously.

The issue here is Leinster without Dublin would be a much bigger spectacle then any other alternative. Louth brought a huge crowd to the final last year. If that was Louth Vs Kildare there would have been 60k at it. Without Dublin Leinster championship matches could grow as spectacles again. An open draw won't have the same effect because Sam Maguire isn't a realistic target for most Leinster counties and never will be.

dunnerc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121607364#Comment_121607364

And thats your opinion fair enough , for me though an open draw is the way to go .

Billy_the_Kid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121607337#Comment_121607337

I would be open to any suggestions around improvements in the GAA but splitting Dublin hurling team into 4/5 teams is just ridiculous. Maybe merging weaker counties like Meath & Westmeath might be a better solution.

gaffer91

Definitely voluntary amalgamations should be offered along with a mandatory split of Dublin.

Only a two-way split of Dublin was merited originally in my view, on population grounds. It's the decades of overfunding that now mean a larger split is necessary to really help the GAA.

dunnerc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121607546#Comment_121607546

in my view due to population and over funding Cork Galway Kerry etc over Leitrim Longford Carlow etc would have to be split to really help the GAA

WHAT COUNTY ARE YOU FROM ?