How can you claim something would be beneficial without any idea of how it would work in practice...Does the split include hurling? Will there be 3 new county grounds built? Is there 4 separate club championships within Dublin?
That would be a discussion for later; it wouldn't be particularly hard to do and perhaps could be even more than 4 teams if there are more benefits to the GAA as a whole from a larger split.
Yeah tbh perhaps sometimes we do overfocus on the split. The split is only necessary because of the unfair advantages Dublin enjoy over everyone else- the funding from the GAA and the government, from their sponsors that vastly outstrips every other team; playing finals and semi-finals in their home stadium that the GAA spent millions building, their playing pool being vastly larger than the likes of Cork, itself a big outlier. What's strange is that some partisan Dublin fans just can't seem to accept that these issues are in fact advantages which is bizarre. Even if they don't win every year, they absolutely are unfairly advantaged.
So we need to accept the truth that Dublin are unfairly advantaged over every other county and then discuss how we deal with it. If Dublin weren't unfairly advantaged, nobody, including me, would want them to be split! But this is clearly not the case.
Any detail on how you would split Dublin into 4 teams - 2 northside & 2 southside?
Best solution is scrap provincials and have an open draw , but it's all only opinions on here
Kill the game? Attendances have already plummeted especially Leinster. No better time to reset when the public in Dublin have lost interest pre semi final stage. Either way even if Dublin were split they shouldn't be in Leinster. They're a province in all aspects.
Most Leinster counties want to keep the provincials but without Dublin.
Monaghan, Mayo, Tyrone, Donegal if they were in Leinster losing every year to Dublin they'd lose motivation. They'd go into terminal decline like Leinster counties did.
Only Kerry would have a chance but they're by far pound for pound the best county in football.
Kerry Cork Galway Mayo etc are unfairly advantaged over Leitrim Longford Carlow etc , splitting them reduces these advantages and helps all Counties. Enhancing the prestige, integrity and fairness of the competition will increase competitiveness .To be clear though splitting Dublin alone will only help a handful of Counties of which" i have no doubt your County is one of "
But as i said before , the main way i think you are going wrong is not willing to accept the reality that Kerry Cork Galway Mayo etc are unfairly advantaged in terms of population , funding , money etc over Leitrim Longford Carlow etc , the GAA has a real problem indeed !!
Still waiting to hear what County you are from ??
Definitely don't bow on on my part, I'm happy to continue the discussion. The projection is quite noticeable in your case, you repeatedly accuse me of things you yourself are guilty of doing e.g. you answering "42" and then saying I don't answer questions which I have already responded/debunked several times in the past; just because you don't like an answer doesn't mean it isn't one.
But as I said before, the main way I think you and others are going wrong is not being willing to accept the reality that Dublin are uniquely unfairly advantaged in terms of population, funding, money etc. Tbf, if they weren't and they were winning fairly then of course they shouldn't be split! That's not the case though. They are far ahead of any other county on any of these metrics individually so when you combine them together and make them persist over decades, we realise the GAA has created a real problem.
There’s no stadium in south Dublin for a split to play in so that’s a bit of a problem that seems to get ignored.
Agreed it's never gonna happen
"The split" is a handy little one to focus on for Dublin fans. It's never gonna happen, there is no real appetite for it in any serious gaa circles, and it provides a handy little diversion for Dublin fans to divert from all the other special treatment they have gotten over the past few decades
I'll not be replying to you any more after this, we're going in circles, you're repeating the same crap every time (when you're not moving the goalposts) and just now you're resorting to "no you are" when this is all pointed out to you. It's like arguing with a child, so I'll be bowing out before I get baited into a ban.
1.Dublin won't exist, and that won't hinder their chances, according to you. Would you get up the yard. If the competition was unfair (according to you), then making it fair by removing Dublins advantage (again, this is your position) hurts their chances at winning. This is, according to you, good for Dublin.
2. Yeah you said all that already and weren't able to back it up when pushed further. I asked you why splitting Dublin is to their benefit and why splitting Kerry wouldn't and your response has been "because Dublin are uniquely advantaged in blah blah blah", which is a non-answer. Weasel words. You havent answered, because there is no world in which you can argue that splitting Dublin is for their own good while splitting Kerry isn't. It just doesn't make sense. You're trying to cover this up by showcasing some top notch ctrl+c / ctrl+v skills.
3. Three times I've told you that enhancing the prestige does nothing for competitiveness. Same with the integrity. Three times you've avoided acknowledging this point, because you've no rebuttal. Same with my comment about how it doesn't necessarily make it fairer either, but you've ignored that too.
4. HOW much more likely are they to get out of Connaught?........ "As above" is a bullshit attempt to avoid the question and doesn't cut it I'm afraid. Some meandering response about the overall fairness of the competition and a rising tide lifts all boats etc. but not once have you actually said they're more likely to get out of the province. Never mind how, which was the question asked, you've avoided actually saying they ARE more likely. Because they aren't. And you know that. You just can't spin enough bullshit to hide the fact.
5 HOW are they going to meet these subdivisional Dublin teams that are easier to beat?........more "as above" bolloxology. They're not going to meet them, because they can't get out of Connaught. They've only done so twice in a total of about 150 years. That's not Dublins fault, or anyone else's. You can pin the blame tail on some other donkey. Again, you cannot answer this straight and started shiting on about how overall fairness improves everything for every county..... Which has nothing to do with Leitrims failure to make it to a QF.
6. This question was originally about making it more competitive. You've twisted it now so that it's about interest waning in the competition. Bacause you have fcuk all else to say.
7. I asked if Leitrim would have worse odds if Dublin were split or better. You dodged the question first time round, then got all confused. Here's a simple example for you..... If Spain were removed from the FIFA World Cup and replaced by four separate Spanish teams, do you think it would be easier for Ireland to win the WC or harder? An increased number of better teams than you competing for the same prize means it's more difficult for you than before. Yeah, there's no more Spain/Dublin to contend with, but there's 4 times the chances of meeting another team that aren't quite as good but are still better than you.
The rest of your post is an attempt to derail the conversation. You don't believe any of that, you're literally copying what I'm saying (without any proof or evidence) and trying to turn it around on me. Hard luck, though I won't be falling for this trickery.
Have a nice life. Up the Dubs.
🎶 oh when the DUBS!....... GO UP! .....TO LIFT THE SAM MAGUIRE!.....OH WE'LL BE THERRRRRE......OH WE'LL BE THERRRRRE 🎵
Of course splitting Dublin would kill the game in Dublin , it aint gonna happen your wasting your time 13 years of it lol.................
What County are you from ??????????????
No Dublin doesn't need to be split and wont be split , your 13 year campaign has failed
What County are you from ??????????????????????????
I agree; scrap the provincials, equalise funding and split Dublin and inter-county football will be given a whole new lease of life.
6.Interest waning is bad for the competition. It does help them as as the fairness of the competition increases from splitting Dublin all teams participating benefit. Take a League 3 team competing in the FA Cup. Even if they don't win it, they benefit from knowing that the tournament hasn't been rigged in favour of one particular team. This is good but in and of itself but also because it maintains interest, which helps the competition in the longer term.
7.It's obvious what I meant, Leitrim have a better chance of winning the All-Ireland if Dublin are split. (Also, I don't accept that's what improved odds means, you're wrong again there. But that's a separate topic) It's a small benefit originally but at least the advantages will be split among numerous teams rather than concentrated into one as at present. The benefits wills become more apparent as the years progress. So there is a benefit to Letirim from splitting Dublin, in both the short and long term. But you don't care about Leitrim, you just use them as a tool to try and advance your failed argument. You've already acknowledged that splitting Dublin helps 31 out of 32 counties (it's really 32 out of 32 but it may take some more time for you to realise that). And as I've said before, not splitting Dublin definitely doesn't help Leitrim.
So to quote you, "This is what I mean about your debating style. You haven't a clue what you're talking about, getting mixed up everywhere and muddying the waters (on purpose, a cynical person might suspect). You're changing the goalposts and cherry picking the bits and bobs you have an answer to (or think you have an answer to)." While this incorrect in my case, this definitely applies to you unfortunately. The truth is you want Dublin alone to continue to be unfairly advantaged, acknowledging as you have that splitting them would benefit 31 counties; that alone should be grounds for a split as the net benefit is so clear, but it's really 32 counties benefiting so the case is even stronger. You should care more about the game as a whole, rather than just what benefits Dublin. And I don't accept that splitting Dublin will kill the game in the capital.
I would like to see the provincials scrapped , open draw is worth a try .
How can Kerry Mayo Tyrone Galway Monaghan etc compete with Dublin ? Stop the whinging lad
😏
Your argument is full of contradictions , your questions are pure nonsense , Cork kerry Galway Mayo etc are hugely advantaged over Leitrim Carlow Longford etc ,you support what you think is best for your County , you dont give a monkeys about the weaker Counties no matter what evidence is presented
Players in Dublin will only play for Dublin , Dublin is and always will be a 1County team
As i've explained before splitting Dublin , would only help a handful of Counties "which yours is one of no doubt"
You dont give a monkeys about the prestige integrity and fairness of the game , your fooling no one as above all you care about is helping your own County by weakening Dublin
Guess what , your sad 13 year campaign has failed , it will never happen
So id appreciate if you would stop blindly posting the same rubbish out over and over again for the last 13 years
Now its fair that you for once and for all answer the question you have been asked
What County are you from ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
You're stuck on repeat, saying the same crap every time. This does not make it true, no matter how many times you repeat it.
1. Dublins chances of winning the all Ireland are reduced if you split them. Reduced. This doesn't help them, it reduces their chances. You are stuck in some weird form of denial but cause you claimed the opposite, and are making stuff up to bolster that argument.
2. You don't want to benefit Dublin. You want to restrict their chances by splitting them up. You're making some bizarro argument that this helps them when it doesn't. And when the tables are turned, and it's suggested that we benefit other counties by splitting them up (which is your position, remember?) all of a sudden, no that's not gonna work.
3,4 and 5..... You're not even bothering to copy and paste any more. If you're not arsed replying then don't get your knickers in a twist when others do the same. It is plain as day that your replies to these questions are not based in logic or fairness or anything else other than spite and bitterness.
6. You haven't explained anything. Splitting Dublin doesn't help New York because they've never made it to the point where they might meet them in the competition. Same with Leitrim, only once in a century has that happened. So it has zero bearing on their respective campaigns. Zero. You're shiting on now about interest waning, but that's not what was being discussed. I've said why it's worse for those teams (more tier 2 teams) but you've no counterargument for that, so you ignored it. Your entire debating style is founded on being dishonest.
7. You've completely jumped the shark here. I asked you if Leitrims odds would be higher with a split Dublin in the competition or lower. You said "THe odds are improved.......Because, as stated before, without a split the game will slide into irrelevance so Leitrim won't even have a competition to compete in!"
First of all improved odds means they have a lower chance of winning (10/1 shot has a better chance at winning than a 20/1 shot. 20/1 is an improvement on 10/1). So thanks for making my point for me.
Secondly, if it was announced that the AI were to be cancelled from 2025, this would have zero bearing on the odds being offered for the 2024 championship. Zero. Literally no effect. To suggest otherwise is lunacy.
This is what I mean about your debating style. You haven't a clue what you're talking about, getting mixed up everywhere and muddying the waters (on purpose, a cynical person might suspect). You're changing the goalposts and cherry picking the bits and bobs you have an answer to (or think you have an answer to). You ignored the question about odds until recently and it's now blown up in your face.
"So you accept that, at the least, splitting Dublin helps every county except Dublin?
Yes. Of course I do. That's the entire basis of my argument, well that and the fact that it helps the smaller counties in negligible amounts (and hinders them in other ways) while vastly improving the chances of three other counties. I don't want it to happen, because it will destroy GAA in the capital. You want it to happen for the same reasons, no matter how hard you pretend otherwise. This will not help Dublin, it will kill them.
I've dealt with your questions again now, I'd appreciate if you could do the same for me
I already did, as above, see previous replies etc. Copy and paste, baby.
There's now young lads on county panels who've only been alive for 1 year where Dublin didn't win Leinster. That puts things into perspective. If Dublin win the next 4/5 young lads on county panels will have lived through only Dublin wins. If you were born in 2000 you'd have been 4 when Westmeath won and 10 when Meath won so you would be a 24 year old intercounty player and you'll only remember 1 year when Dublin didn't win.
It's obvious why players from Leinster counties won't fully commit. It's pointless. The funny thing is this won't change over the next 20 year's but you'll still have posters on here claiming Dublin should be in the championship as they go for their 38th Leinster in 40 seasons or something like that.
Just be thankful if you're old enough to remember Leinster in the 80's, 90's and 00's. Absolutely blessed to have experienced that period it will never return. And even though Dublin still topped the roll of honour for those 3 decades it was competitive and fun.
Except Dublin, but that's the intended goal, whether you'll admit that or not.
So you accept that, at the least, splitting Dublin helps every county except Dublin? That's a big concession to make but not fully accurate. The truth is the split of Dublin helps Dublin as well, for the reasons I have already given. Even if it don't accept that, the fact you would oppose a split that you admit benefits at least 31 out of 32 counties, and oppose it purely for partisan reasons, shows you are not a true supporter of the GAA as a whole. Just a supporter of what you (incorrectly) think is best for Dublin.
I think the main issue is you think the current setup can be considered a fair competition. It can't- Dublin, and Dublin alone, are uniquely unfairly advantaged in terms of population, funding, playing at home, among other things. The advantages on all of these are enormous, far outstripping the differences between other counties on the same metrics, and have persisted for decades. Dublin also do not lead on just one of these things, but all of them together! Once you have accepted this reality, it will become a lot easier to understand why Dublin should be split. There is no advantage to keeping Dublin as a single entity for smaller counties, none at all. It harms the game terribly given how long the advantages have been allowed to persist for.
I've dealt with your questions again now, I'd appreciate if you could do the same for me.
Literally an average Leinster team since Dublin dominance took over in 2005.
There's no motivation in Meath anymore. Amateur sport and it's not worth giving up your life for such a biased system.
We'll remain an average team who'll bounce between div 1 and 3 going forward. The general GAA public are only invested in club football now.
Meath are a terrible Leinster team these days, mostly because they're shite. That has nothing to do with Dublin.
Another stinking pile of shite.
But splitting Dublin is one of the few reforms that we can say will benefit every single county in the short, medium and long-term!
So I've dealt with your questions again.
No, you haven't. You've put forward replies to them, but you have in no way answered them. I agree that this is getting tiresome. There is nothing to analyse in your replies, it's all a load of old cobblers.
I'd appreciate now if you can respond to my answers around funding, playing pool, playing at home etc somehow not favouring Dublin. I've answered your questions calmly and directly it's fair that you do the same.
I already answered your questions directly, the answer is 42.
I'm not sure how to do the wraparound quotations so you'll have to bear with me. I have dealt with your questions and given comprehensive answers and debunked many myths you tried to propagate, but I'm happy to do so again (despite you having not answered my far more reasonable questions). And of course, there are no contradictions in my argument- I operate off the factual basis that Dublin alone are uniquely unfairly advantaged and my views then flow from that. Whereas you just will support what you think is best for Dublin (despite Dublin also benefiting from a split) no matter what evidence is presented.
So I've dealt with your questions again. I'd appreciate if you try to actually grapple with the answers and try to analyse them rather than just blindly reposting the same stuff over and over, which I have already answered/debunked; I'm happy to continue responding but it is a bit tiresome. I'd appreciate now if you can respond to my answers around funding, playing pool, playing at home etc somehow not favouring Dublin. I've answered your questions calmly and directly it's fair that you do the same.
Meath are run of the mill for a Leinster team these days. Problem is there's an over funded province in the tournament.
I have to disagree with you Yeah Right , gaffer91 would make a lousy Politician 😂
And the number one teams in both codes, what are their population sizes like?
I mean, if the general trend is that the 15th and 21st most populous counties have been top of the heap for decades, that kinda blows your argument out of the water, does it not?
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