The Dominance of Dublin GAA *Mod warning post#1*

gaffer91

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121597643#Comment_121597643

I did address what you said. You can disregard it because it clashes with your partisan worldview but that's on you.

You shouldn't just come in demanding that people answer your laundry list of questions, especially when you don't reciprocate. You haven't addressed my issues at all (e.g. dealing with how Dublin are unfairly advantaged in terms of population, funding, playing at home etc) but in the interests of continuing our discussion, I'm happy to deal with your questions, despite having done so many times before including in my posts to you today where I debunked your previous comments.

1. I want Dublin to be split up to improve the fairness in the All-Ireland competition, for all counties, including Dublin, despite what you misquoted me as saying in your previous post. It enhances the GAA in Dublin because it means any potential Dublin divisional sides successes will come fairly, unlike currently. This is better for the GAA in Dublin.
2. No other county has the unique combination of unfair advantages that Dublin enjoy. That's why Dublin alone should be split. As I've said before, it's not just the fact Dublin are successful, it's more the fact this success is coming from an unfairly advantaged position.
3. By enhancing the prestige, integrity and fairness of the competition, it benefits smaller counties in the short-term but particularly the medium to long-term. Without splitting Dublin the game will probably fade away at inter-county level.
4. As above, interest will be enhanced in the competition once Dublin are split. This will make a small difference in the short term but the benefits will become more apparent as the years progress. Similar to how Dublin's unfair advantages took years to fully manifest. Not splitting Dublin definitely does nothing to help Leitrim get out of Connaught!
5. By dispersing the unfair advantages across several teams rather than one, the unfair advantages are significantly reduced and the competition becomes fairer and more competitive. I'm not sure what is hard to understand about this.
6. Same answer as for question 3. You need to get out of the mindset that the status quo can be justified. It can't, because of Dublin's unfair advantages. Leaving Dublin as a single entity is far, far more harmful to smaller counties than splitting them.
7. Same answer as for question 3.

You're wrong when you say Cork have a bigger population advantage over Leitrim than Dublin do over Cork, please check the absolute (not relative) figures in the latest census. By every metric, funding, population, playing at home, Dublin are leagues ahead of everyone else. Any one of these things would be a probably by itself but combine them all together, make the gaps enormous, concentrate them over decades and we realise how crazy the current situation is.

So i've dealt with your questions, now please explain to me how funding makes no difference in sport (far higher for Dublin than every other county), available playing pool makes no difference in sport (far higher for Dublin than every other county), how playing at home makes no difference (unique for Dublin in the All-Ireland). And also please explain how not splitting Dublin helps the likes of Leitrim and Carlow, who you clearly care so much about? Surely they don't benefit from all these unfair advantages being concentrated into a single team?

dunnerc

Go away with your nonsense, your fooling no one , all your after is to weaken Dublin to help your own County, and once again what County are you from ? We are all still waiting to hear !!

munster87

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121597976#Comment_121597976

Kerry man here...Munster is pointless.

The All Ireland is pretty pointless for the majority of counties participating in it too to be fair?

dunnerc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121599394#Comment_121599394

100% agreed munster87 probably only 6-7 counties can realistically win the All Ireland

Splitting Dublin wouldn't help the weaker Counties one bit .

munster87

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121599562#Comment_121599562

I’d like to see the top competition eventually made up of teams like in the AFL. Even starting out with a small number like 6 or 8 and growing from there.

Obviously still have the club competitions within counties.

I know a lot of history would be at risk but it’s not like it’s completely destroyed due to change.

reclose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121598694#Comment_121598694

This lad can’t be a serious poster?

dunnerc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121599618#Comment_121599618

13 years posting the same nonsense over and over again😏

RoyalCelt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121597976#Comment_121597976

Pretty pointless although not as bad as Leinster. At least cork have the ability to eventually catch up to Kerry unlike Leinster. Nobody will ever regularly challenge Dublin ever again.

It's been 20 years which is about a quarter of my life. In another 20 year's I expect Dublin to win every Leinster championship bar maybe two at best. So half my life the once most exciting football province pre over funding will be a waste.

RoyalCelt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121597686#Comment_121597686

If roles were reversed and Meath had Dublin's advantages we'd have won every Leinster the last 20 years. If yous had our situation you'd be a div 4 team. At least Kerry don't have everything in their favour. Pound for pound they're the best county by a country mile.

Most dubs don't even support yous anymore pre semi final. They're bored and they're not idiots. They can see the unfairness. Enjoy the next 20 Leinster championships because as long as Dublin are competing in it nobody outside of the nut jobs will.

dunnerc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121599952#Comment_121599952

Have a read of this and dry your eyes lad

Meath legend Bernard Flynn hits out at Royal chiefs over decade of decline

• https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/meath-legend-bernard-flynn-hits-out-at-royal-chiefs-over-decade-of-decline/a2105265459.html
• Bernard Flynn has claimed Meath footballers could fall even further adrift without an injection of leadership in the higher echelons of the county board.

RoyalCelt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121600178#Comment_121600178

Nah I'm good. Not surprised there's a decade of decline nobody with sense in Meath gives a shite about inter county anymore. People realise it's a waste of time the GAA want Dublin to win everything so why bother. Save your money, time and put it into something more productive. Let the dubs enjoy winning 100 Leinster's in a row because we're all just laughing at yous at this point.

dunnerc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121600402#Comment_121600402

So why waste your time whinging on here 😂

RoyalCelt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121600534#Comment_121600534

Because I feel like moaning. It's funny seeing a few loonies though pretending the championship isn't dead and that it's worth Dublin's time playing in it.

MrRigsby

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121598693#Comment_121598693

I said “win” . It’s present tense . When did Cork last win an All Ireland in either code ? If you are willing to go far enough into history, many counties will have won something ( even Mayo 😂)

Did you smash it

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121600925#Comment_121600925

What relevance is it when they have won?Your point was that population doesn’t matter. Cork and Dublin have won the same amount of senior men’s all irelands: 37.

MrRigsby

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121601115#Comment_121601115

The fairly obvious relevance is that Cork has the third or fourth biggest population in the country and hasn’t won an All Ireland football title in 13 years ending a 20 year drought. They haven’t even reached a football final since that win . In those 13 years , Kerry with roughly 25% of the population of Cork has won 2 all Ireland’s and reached several finals . This destroys the point made by several posters that population is a major and unfair advantage . If it was down to population Cork should win Munster titles every year ( hasn’t happened for about 11 years ) and reach at least the All Ireland semi finals in both codes Dublin and Antrim the two most populated counties should be the top teams in both codes which they clearly aren’t .

dunnerc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121600770#Comment_121600770

Whinge away so 😂

Did you smash it

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121601257#Comment_121601257

ok well I don’t agree, cork and Dublin are the most populous counties in Ireland and are the joint third most successful counties in the GAA’s history so to make an argument that population doesn’t matter because cork haven’t won lately is missing the general obvious trend.

RoyalCelt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121601431#Comment_121601431

Touche brother.

Yeah Right

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121598694#Comment_121598694

You'd make a great politician, I'll give you that. You have been repeatedly asked to explain your position and you keep giving these unrelated, partial, misdirecting answers that don't even come close to being a real answer.

1 You want to split Dublin up, making it harder for Dublin to win, correct? How is that not restricting their chances?

I want Dublin to be split up to improve the fairness in the All-Ireland competition, for all counties, including Dublin, despite what you misquoted me as saying in your previous post. It enhances the GAA in Dublin because it means any potential Dublin divisional sides successes will come fairly, unlike currently. This is better for the GAA in Dublin.

 A partial, BS answer that doesn't address the actual question asked and contradicts itself multiple times in three sentences. I asked how is splitting them up not restricting their chances and you ignored that part and said it would enhance GAA in Dublin, which is complete rubbish. Not once did you say if it does/does not restrict their chances, which is what was asked.

 2 Why not split Kerry then, and Mayo and Kilkenny and Galway.........it's for their own benefit, right?

No other county has the unique combination of unfair advantages that Dublin enjoy. That's why Dublin alone should be split. As I've said before, it's not just the fact Dublin are successful, it's more the fact this success is coming from an unfairly advantaged position.

 Another non-answer. You claim that splitting Dublin will benefit them. I asked how does that not apply to the other teams like Mayo and Kerry. I mean, if it benefits one team then it’ll benefit every team, right? Right? You ignored this, and trotted out the same soundbite that you always do, ignoring the crux of the question and providing your own, ready-made, preloaded answer. Zero reasons given as to why this would/would not benefit other counties. It couldn’t possibly be that splitting them up would be to their detriment, could it? Which is the exact opposite of what you claimed earlier, no?

 3 HOW does it make it more competitive for New York? Or Leitrim?

By enhancing the prestige, integrity and fairness of the competition, it benefits smaller counties in the short-term but particularly the medium to long-term. Without splitting Dublin the game will probably fade away at inter-county level.

 Another pre-loaded copy and paste answer that avoids the actual question, again. Enhancing the prestige does nothing for competitiveness. Same with the integrity. Splitting Dublin makes it LESS competitive for the smaller counties, not MORE competitive. Having more competition at the top table does nothing for New York or Leitrim’s chances at going farther in the competition. Having 4 Dublin teams instead of 1 REDUCES their chances of doing so, making it LESS fair on them. But you knew that, so you’ve avoided the actual question again.

 4 HOW much more likely are they to get out of Connaught?

As above, interest will be enhanced in the competition once Dublin are split. This will make a small difference in the short term but the benefits will become more apparent as the years progress. Similar to how Dublin's unfair advantages took years to fully manifest.

 I didn’t ask you about interest in the competition (which has no bearing on their chances of getting out of Connaught). The goings-on in Leinster means SFA to New York or Leitrim getting out of their own province, which has only happened literally a handful of times in about 150 cumulative years of football. You KNOW this. So instead of admitting it, you answered a question that wasn’t asked.

 Not splitting Dublin definitely does nothing to help Leitrim get out of Connaught!

Great. That’s the exact opposite of what you were asked though. What does splitting Dublin do to their chances? Your refusal to answer speaks volumes, because the answer doesn't fit the narrative you're conjuring up.

5 HOW are they going to meet these subdivisional Dublin teams that are easier to beat?

By dispersing the unfair advantages across several teams rather than one, the unfair advantages are significantly reduced and the competition becomes fairer and more competitive. I'm not sure what is hard to understand about this.

They're not gonna meet them at all, are they, seeing as they've never made it far enough? Hell, Leitrim only made it far enough once in the last century, never mind New York. I understand that you cannot answer the question truthfully because it pokes holes in your entire argument. I asked you HOW are they going to meet these teams when they can’t get out of their province and you’ve avoided it. Again. Why can’t you just answer the question? I’m not sure what’s so hard to understand about this? Do you need me to explain it to you in simpler terms? Or is it because the real answer is “they aren’t going to meet these Dublin teams in all probability, so splitting Dublin does absolutely nothing for them as it will have zero impact on their campaign”.

 6 So how does it benefit them or make it fairer for them in any way, shape or form?

Same answer as for question 3. You need to get out of the mindset that the status quo can be justified. It can't, because of Dublin's unfair advantages.

 We’ve shown that your answer to question 3 is a pile of shite. Integrity and prestige have zero relevance to competitiveness and it is my position that splitting Dublin decreases the number of tier 1 teams and nearly doubles the number of tier 2 teams, thereby making it harder (i.e. less competitive) for the Tier 3 teams and below. You've said nothing to convince me to change that position.

 Leaving Dublin as a single entity is far, far more harmful to smaller counties than splitting them.

In your opinion. But, as we’ve already seen, your opinion is tarnished and tainted and not worth a fiddler’s fart, in reality. You continue to hide behind this façade of “I’m only looking out for the future of the game, won’t someone think of the poor wee counties?” when it is plain as day that you do not believe this. You cannot even argue your point without avoiding the questions and going off on unrelated tangents. You are as biased a poster as I’ve ever seen on Boards, pretending you are coming from an altruistic starting point fools nobody.

 7 If Dublin had been split in 4 at the start of last year's championship, would Leitrim's odds at winning the thing have increased (because there's a higher number of better teams than them to compete against), or would they have shortened (because the Dublin 'juggernaut' is no longer a factor)?

Same answer as for question 3.

Which, again, was a steaming pile of shite. And also has nothing to do with the question asked. Again. I've asked you a very simple question that has a binary answer....either their odds increased or they decreased, and your answer to that is "By enhancing the prestige, integrity and fairness of the competition, it benefits smaller counties....." Why can't you give a straight answer? Is it because a straight answer would scuttle your entire argument and show it up for the nonsense that it is?

I’d like to note here, that now you’re not even bothered to copy and paste your responses any more, directing people to previous answers, no matter how irrelevant those answers are to the questions posed. You even copied and pasted my “your argument is built on sand” response earlier in the thread. Your argument is in the toilet and everyone can see it. 

So i've dealt with your questions,....

You hadn't dealt with my questions, which is why I numbered them and asked them again. Because you were avoiding them. You've some neck to accuse me of doing what you just did yourself. And, for the record, you STILL haven't answered them, you've provided answers that either do not relate to the question asked or answer a completely different question altogether. So, to reciprocate, I'll now answer your questions in the same format.

now please explain to me how funding makes no difference in sport (far higher for Dublin than every other county), available playing pool makes no difference in sport (far higher for Dublin than every other county), how playing at home makes no difference (unique for Dublin in the All-Ireland). And also please explain how not splitting Dublin helps the likes of Leitrim and Carlow, who you clearly care so much about? Surely they don't benefit from all these unfair advantages being concentrated into a single team?

Sure, no problem. The answer to that question is 42. Next question please.

Yeah Right

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121599952#Comment_121599952

"wahhhh wahhh, Meath haven't been competing in Leinster because Dubs are so unfairly advantaged, not because Meath are shite.....waahhhhhh"

Yeah Right

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121601460#Comment_121601460

And the number one teams in both codes, what are their population sizes like?

I mean, if the general trend is that the 15th and 21st most populous counties have been top of the heap for decades, that kinda blows your argument out of the water, does it not?

dunnerc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121601695#Comment_121601695

I have to disagree with you Yeah Right , gaffer91 would make a lousy Politician 😂

RoyalCelt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121601706#Comment_121601706

Meath are run of the mill for a Leinster team these days. Problem is there's an over funded province in the tournament.

gaffer91

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121601695#Comment_121601695

I'm not sure how to do the wraparound quotations so you'll have to bear with me. I have dealt with your questions and given comprehensive answers and debunked many myths you tried to propagate, but I'm happy to do so again (despite you having not answered my far more reasonable questions). And of course, there are no contradictions in my argument- I operate off the factual basis that Dublin alone are uniquely unfairly advantaged and my views then flow from that. Whereas you just will support what you think is best for Dublin (despite Dublin also benefiting from a split) no matter what evidence is presented.

1. It's not restricting their chances because players from Dublin will still get to compete in the All-Ireland, just with subdivisional sides, with the added benefit that any success in this scenario would come far more fairly than it does at present. Of course a single Dublin entity will no longer exist, but the GAA as a whole within the county, and elsewhere will benefit. Without splitting Dublin, the game at inter-county level will die, which will impact Dublin as it does everywhere else.
2. As I've explained before, splitting Dublin alone is desirable as they alone are uniquely unfairly advantaged. As Mayo, Kerry, Kilkenny and Galway etc. are not uniquely unfairly advantaged, there is no benefit from splitting them, either for the teams individually or for the organisation as a whole.
3. Same answer as before- by enhancing the prestige, integrity and fairness of the competition, every county participating benefits. By dispersing Dublin's unfair advantages across multiple teams, it will stop the competition from withering and dying, as it is currently on the path to do. It also makes it better on a competitive basis as Dublin's divisional sides will not have the same combination of advantages that the single Dublin team currently enjoy.
4. As above, and as previously stated- as interest in the competition is enhanced due to the increased fairness that will result from splitting Dublin, it will become more competitive and every team will be able to compete more, both in the short and long-term. Dublin's unfair advantages are weighing on competition at all stages of the All-Ireland, from Connaught prelims right up to the All-Ireland final. Therefore splitting them will benefit all teams. So splitting Dublin enhances the chances of Leitrim and New York. It's marginal to begin with but it'll be more apparent over the years as the benefits become more apparent, especially as without a split the game will decline. As I said before, not splitting Dublin definitely does nothing to help Leitrim and New York get out of Connaught!
5. As for question 4
6. I've shown that your answer here is "a pile of shite", to use your phrase. The status quo cannot be justified. Inter-county will wither and die if Dublin are not split. If they were winning fairly, I wouldn't mind, but sadly this is not the case.
7. THe odds are improved. It's marginal at first, although still a benefit, but it will become more Leitrim's perspective as the years progress. Because, as stated before, without a split the game will slide into irrelevance so Leitrim won't even have a competition to compete in! The thing about most reforms is that they will benefit some counties but not others, may have minor benefits etc. But splitting Dublin is one of the few reforms that we can say will benefit every single county in the short, medium and long-term!

So I've dealt with your questions again. I'd appreciate if you try to actually grapple with the answers and try to analyse them rather than just blindly reposting the same stuff over and over, which I have already answered/debunked; I'm happy to continue responding but it is a bit tiresome. I'd appreciate now if you can respond to my answers around funding, playing pool, playing at home etc somehow not favouring Dublin. I've answered your questions calmly and directly it's fair that you do the same.

Yeah Right

Another stinking pile of shite.

1. I'm not talking about the players' chances, I'm talking about "Dublin's" chances. If you split them in 4 and force all the best players to split up, you are reducing the chances that Dublin will win the All-Ireland. Therefore, you want to restrict their chances, not improve them, yet you seem reluctant to admit this and accused me of putting words in your mouth when I pointed this out.
2. You've said that splitting Dublin will be to their benefit. You have not said why, bar any spurious bollocks reasons. Why would you want to benefit Dublin if they're already at an unfair advantage? And why wouldn't you want to benefit other teams by splitting them as well? Three times you've 'answered' this question now and not once have you said why splitting Kerry wouldn't be to their benefit.
3. "same answer as before" which I've already shown to be complete rubbish. Copying and pasting again.
4. "as above"....another Copy and paste
5. "as per question 4" another copy and paste
6. You have shown no such thing. What impact do Integrity and Prestige have on whether or not something is competitive? Zero impact, is the answer any reasonable person will arrive at but you won't admit this. We're not talking about Dublin in this question, it's purely about the weaker counties. Yet you've nothing to say in response to my question "how will it improve their chances" other than to wishy-washy nonsense about fairness and integrity. The simple truth here is that splitting Dublin harms Dublin, full stop. It does nothing for the likes of Leitrim. You again are refusing to admit this, which is bizarre behaviour.
7. Finally, after 21 answers we get one that addresses the question directly. But wait......!.....you've pulled another stinker out of your hole. the only reason you think that their chances would be improved is because there'll be no all-Ireland in X years? WTF are you smoking? If it were even remotely true, why would the competition winding up improve their chances? You're speaking crazy talk here.

But splitting Dublin is one of the few reforms that we can say will benefit every single county in the short, medium and long-term!

Except Dublin, but that's the intended goal, whether you'll admit that or not.

So I've dealt with your questions again.

No, you haven't. You've put forward replies to them, but you have in no way answered them. I agree that this is getting tiresome. There is nothing to analyse in your replies, it's all a load of old cobblers.

I'd appreciate now if you can respond to my answers around funding, playing pool, playing at home etc somehow not favouring Dublin. I've answered your questions calmly and directly it's fair that you do the same.

I already answered your questions directly, the answer is 42.

Yeah Right

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121602478#Comment_121602478

Meath are a terrible Leinster team these days, mostly because they're shite. That has nothing to do with Dublin.

RoyalCelt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121602827#Comment_121602827

Literally an average Leinster team since Dublin dominance took over in 2005.

There's no motivation in Meath anymore. Amateur sport and it's not worth giving up your life for such a biased system.

We'll remain an average team who'll bounce between div 1 and 3 going forward. The general GAA public are only invested in club football now.

gaffer91

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121602822#Comment_121602822

1. Dublin don't benefit from the status quo. Winning competitions in a grotesquely unfair competition is not something to take pride in. So splitting them helps them too. Of course, Dublin as a single entity won't compete anymore but even that is better than the status quo for Dublin. And then you have the additional benefits to the competition as a whole, which also benefits Dublin
2. I want to benefit Dublin because I care about the game in all counties. As I've said before, as Dublin are the only team uniquely unfairly advantaged, they are the only team that there is a benefit from splitting. No other county structure is as damaging to the All-Ireland competition so there is no benefit from splitting them.
3. 3-5, As I said before, try to actually deal with the arguments presented. People don't like being contradicted and you probably have a partisan attachment to your team but try to think about the game as a whole, not just Dublin
4. As above
5. As above
6. I've already answered how splitting Dublin improves things for Leitrim but happy to do so again. For one, if people don't think the competition is fair, which it clearly isn't currently, interest will wane. So any team in the competition benefits from an improvement in fairness of the competition, which is what will come from splitting Dublin. Any team who participates therefore benefits from this change
7. As long as Dublin are uniquely unfairly advantaged over everyone else, then interest will wane. It will go the way of the Railway Cup without public interest. It's already happening. So not only is it right from a moral perspective to split Dublin, it also helps the competition in the short and long-term and by extension, every team who participates in the competition.

Except Dublin, but that's the intended goal, whether you'll admit that or not.

So you accept that, at the least, splitting Dublin helps every county except Dublin? That's a big concession to make but not fully accurate. The truth is the split of Dublin helps Dublin as well, for the reasons I have already given. Even if it don't accept that, the fact you would oppose a split that you admit benefits at least 31 out of 32 counties, and oppose it purely for partisan reasons, shows you are not a true supporter of the GAA as a whole. Just a supporter of what you (incorrectly) think is best for Dublin.

I think the main issue is you think the current setup can be considered a fair competition. It can't- Dublin, and Dublin alone, are uniquely unfairly advantaged in terms of population, funding, playing at home, among other things. The advantages on all of these are enormous, far outstripping the differences between other counties on the same metrics, and have persisted for decades. Dublin also do not lead on just one of these things, but all of them together! Once you have accepted this reality, it will become a lot easier to understand why Dublin should be split. There is no advantage to keeping Dublin as a single entity for smaller counties, none at all. It harms the game terribly given how long the advantages have been allowed to persist for.

I've dealt with your questions again now, I'd appreciate if you could do the same for me.

RoyalCelt

There's now young lads on county panels who've only been alive for 1 year where Dublin didn't win Leinster. That puts things into perspective. If Dublin win the next 4/5 young lads on county panels will have lived through only Dublin wins. If you were born in 2000 you'd have been 4 when Westmeath won and 10 when Meath won so you would be a 24 year old intercounty player and you'll only remember 1 year when Dublin didn't win.

It's obvious why players from Leinster counties won't fully commit. It's pointless. The funny thing is this won't change over the next 20 year's but you'll still have posters on here claiming Dublin should be in the championship as they go for their 38th Leinster in 40 seasons or something like that.

Just be thankful if you're old enough to remember Leinster in the 80's, 90's and 00's. Absolutely blessed to have experienced that period it will never return. And even though Dublin still topped the roll of honour for those 3 decades it was competitive and fun.