The Dominance of Dublin GAA *Mod warning post#1*

dunnerc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121595956#Comment_121595956

Again no it wouldn't, it would only help a handful of Counties , it would not help Leitrim Longford Carlow etc compete with Kerry Mayo Galway Tyrone etc

So again what County are you from ?

gaffer91

I've explained how splitting Dublin helps Leitrim, Carlow etc. by enhancing the prestige, integrity and fairness of the competition. Why not address that rather than just asserting that splitting Dublin won't help those counties?

dunnerc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121596018#Comment_121596018

It would not enhance the prestige ,integrity and fairness of the competition . This has been explained to you many times

Leitrim and Carlow etc cant compete with Kerry Mayo etc ,it is not a fair competition for the weaker Counties

Why wont you address not revealing what County you are from ?

gaffer91

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121596212#Comment_121596212

It hasn't been explained, you have falsely asserted it a few times but you never provide any justification for your argument. Whereas I have given reasons why splitting Dublin helps every county, especially Dublin. Maybe splitting Dublin won't immediately solve everything for the smaller counties, but it will certainly help and is the single most important thing that can be done, along with equalising funding.

Yeah Right

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121596018#Comment_121596018

It's clear as day that you are on the wind-up. You are ignoring the points being put to you and repeating the same auld shite every three posts, as if repeating it will somehow make it true. Spoiler alert: it will in its hole.

But let's play Devil's advocate, here and extrapolate based on your suggestions.

Let's take the worst county as an example......say New York just for argument's sake.

There are 17 counties competing in the Hurling and 33 counties in the Football championships.

As the 33rd best county, in order for New York to win the football all-Ireland, they need to perform better than their opponents, of which there are another 32. On a purely mathematical level, if all other things were considered equal, they have a 32/1 chance at winning the AI. If we split Dublin into 4, then there are now 36 teams in the mix and their odds have increased to 35/1. So they're objectively worse off, from the get go, and that's just from the maths POV pertaining to the AI.

Three extra Dublin teams does sweet feck all to the Munster SFC. Or the Connaught or the Ulster. Leitrim have 1 AI Semi-final appearance in the last 100 years, and three Connaught final appearances in the last 60 years. 4 brand new Dublin teams will do absolutely nothing to impact that. They'll still get whipped like a red-headed stepchild by the likes of Mayo and Galway every year. So from a practical POV, you're also spouting a load of horseh1t. If German and France were split into three teams each for the World Cup in soccer, would it be easier or harder for Ireland to make it to the semis?

prestige, integrity and fairness 

Deliberately hobbling the best team in the competition doesn't increase the prestige of the competition, it weakens it. It cheapens the whole thing if you're not actually playing against the best teams.

Deliberately hobbling the best team in the competition doesn't increase the integrity of the competition, it weakens it, for the same reasons.

Deliberately hobbling the best team in the competition doesn't increase the fairness of the competition, it weakens it. 5 or 6 counties, max, have a better chance of making it all the way, while the other 25+ have a worse chance of making the final. Making it easier for some counties and harder for others is objectively unfair as it only benefits some, not all.

You can keep cherry-picking and massaging stats all you want, it doesn't mean your proposal has any merit whatsoever, no matter how often you repeat it. Your entire argument is built on sand and doesn't stand up to even the most basic of scrutiny.

You're talking out of your hole, essentially, but you already knew that. Your refusal to state what county you support proves this point even further. My money is on either Meath or Mayo, btw, going purely on bitterness alone.

dunnerc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121596261#Comment_121596261

No it wont help , and you falsely asserted a few times without providing any justification for your argument , how it will help the weaker Counties compete with Kerry Mayo Tyrone Derry etc

Again you have not said what County you are from ????

gaffer91

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121596266#Comment_121596266

Not on a wind-up at all, as I said, we're having a friendly discussion. I don't ignore the posts, I take them on board and present a counterargument.

You 32 vs 36 argument is irrational as all things are not equal currently- Dublin are uniquely favoured vs every other team. So by splitting them it disperses the unfair advantages across multiple teams, rather than concentrating them into a single one. This is not ideal but unfortunately it is the best option available to us. So New York benefit here as we do have not have one financial/population juggernaut but instead several smaller entities which is far more manageable.

But even leaving asides the chances of success, the other issue is that Dublin are uniquely favoured- by population, by funding, by playing at home etc. If Dublin won fairly, then I wouldn't mind, but that's simply not the case. In fact, even if they don't win every year they would still be favoured so the issues would have to be addressed regardless. I'm sure, like me, you hate unfairness in sport- splitting Dublin helps ameliorate the very unfair status quo. Again, not perfect, and an option I was reluctant to arrive at, but it's the best one available. It would have been better for this situation to never have arisen to begin with but we are where we are. It's not right that Dublin alone have enormous and unique advantages over ever other county.

It's not about deliberately hobbling a team- as I've said, there is no animosity towards Dublin, just a desire to do what is best for the GAA in all counties. In this case, this means ridding the competition of the current unfairness which can be done by splitting Dublin.

For you to believe that Dublin are not unfairly advantaged, you'd have to believe that funding makes no difference to sporting success, playing at home makes no difference to sporting success, having a vastly larger playing pool makes no difference to funding success- to believe this would be clearly ridiculous, the argument is built on sand and doesn't stand up to even the most basic scrutiny.

dunnerc

Again how will weaker Counties compete with Kerry Mayo Tyrone Derry etc , Your talking nonsense 13 years of it .

And once again what County are you from ?

Yeah Right

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121596360#Comment_121596360

Annnnnd you've ignored pretty much all of the points put to you and just repeated the same auld shite. Again.

As if that makes it true. Again.

And you're pretending that you've reluctantly come to this as the only possible solution. Again.

You're also cherry-picking bits of my post for which you think you have a response. Again.

Everybody can see through this charade, and I really mean everybody. It's as transparent as it is absurd.

"it's not about hobbling a team, it's about restricting Dublin's chances"....aka hobbling them, listen to what you're saying man.

So New York benefit here as we do have not have one financial/population juggernaut but instead several smaller entities which is far more manageable.

Several, smaller entities that are ALL BETTER THAN NY are so it makes it even less likely that they'll progress further in the AI..........tell me again, how does this improve their chances? How is it more manageable? You keep positing these little soundbites but you have absolutely SFA to back them up. Just saying something doesn't make it true, you have to back it up with a reasoned argument, which you have failed to do, so far. Instead of 31 better teams to compete against, they have 35 teams to compete against.

In 2023 New York beat Leitrim on penalties after a drawn Connaught QF and were beaten out the gate by Sligo in the SF. How would splitting Dublin in four improve the chances of either them or Leitrim doing better in the competition? Or Carlow, or Longford or Fermanagh or Antrim or Clare or Waterford? It wouldn't, because they have only met the Dubs a handful of times in a century. Splitting Dublin has zero impact on these counties. Zero.

For everyone else reading this nonsense, this sentence right here is the first sign that the mask is slipping:

So by splitting them it disperses the unfair advantages across multiple teams, rather than concentrating them into a single one. This is not ideal but unfortunately it is the best option available to us. So New York benefit here as we do have not have one financial/population juggernaut but instead several smaller entities which is far more manageable.

Gaffer is openly admitting that splitting Dublin benefits a handful of other teams (several smaller entities) and that he thinks that handful of teams should be unfairly advantaged against Dublin and the smaller teams.

gaffer91

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121596508#Comment_121596508

We're having a friendly discussion as I said, and I hate to say it, but unfortunately it's you who has "repeated the same old shite. Again". And who has cherrypicked what to respond to. I debunked most of your claims in my last post but I'm happy to continue the discussion. You're misquoting me also, I never said anything about "restricting Dublin's chances", if a Dublin subdivisional sides competes fairly and wins (unlike the current Dublin team), I'd be delighted for them. The most likely thing here is that you a partisan Dublin fan, and just don't want them to be split as they are "your" team, even though this would clearly benefit the organisation as a whole, including Dublin.

The "smaller entities" (this refers to Dublin subdivisional sides, not other non-Dublin teams) helps New York because the unfair advantages are now dispersed across multiple teams. This is beneficial both for New York's level of competitiveness (easier to beat Dublin subdivisional teams than the current unfairly advantaged single unit) and the fairness of the competition as whole- people and teams radically lose interest when one team is unfairly advantaged over everyone else, as is the case currently. One thing is for sure- not splitting Dublin definitely doesn't help New York. So even though there are more teams competing after a split, each Dublin divisional side is individually now easier to compete with for New York. But you're just focusing on outcomes again here (New York winning or not winning); what's actually more important is whether it is a fair competition. As long as Dublin have this unique combination of unfair advantages, it absolutely is not a fair competition.

Do you accept that funding, playing pool, playing at home etc are advantages? If you do, then you will accept that Dublin are uniquely advantaged over everyone else as they vastly outstrip every other side on all these metrics individually, never mind when you take them together, concentrate them for decades, are of a scale completely disproportionate to other differences between counties. Once you accept this reality of how Dublin are unfairly advantaged, the conversation can move forward. If you have a proposal for how to mitigate these advantages that doesn't involve splitting Dublin, I'm definitely open to it; as I said, it is not out of any desire to harm Dublin that I want this to happen. But after a lot of discussion and debate, this remains the best option.

dunnerc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121597237#Comment_121597237

No it wouldn't benefit the organisation as a whole , and most definitely not Dublin , it would only benefit a handful of Counties Once again who are " your team" ?

Yeah Right

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121597237#Comment_121597237

More nonsense with nothing to back it up.

I debunked most of your claims in my last post but I'm happy to continue the discussion.

You didn't 'debunk' anything, a phrase that belongs in the CT forum. You didn't even address about 80% of what I said and the parts you did address, you only did so partially, and incorrectly. Keep saying things and it'll make them come true though, eh?

You're misquoting me also, I never said anything about "restricting Dublin's chances"

You want to split Dublin up, making it harder for Dublin to win, correct? (1) How is that not restricting their chances? This is what I meant by partially addressing my points. You said it's not about hobbling a team, then went on to say that you want Dublin to be hobbled. When I put this point to you, your reply is "well, technically I never said I want them to be 'restricted'" while refusing to discuss the matter raised: that you are contradicting your own words. You chose to skip over that part and start claiming I misquoted you (if you want to bet really technical, I never misquoted anyone, I paraphrased your words, if I'm quoting you it'll be done in a proper quote)

if a Dublin subdivisional sides competes fairly and wins (unlike the current Dublin team), I'd be delighted for them.

Sure you would, like your man from the Simpson's eating the lemons.

even though this would clearly benefit the organisation as a whole, including Dublin.

Splitting Dublin in 4 would benefit Dublin? (2) Why not split Kerry then, and Mayo and Kilkenny and Galway.........it's for their own benefit, right? This is another example of what I'm talking about above. You're making outlandish statements with no discussion or delving below the surface. Just spouting shite in the hopes that people will think it's true.

The "smaller entities" (this refers to Dublin subdivisional sides, not other non-Dublin teams) helps New York because the unfair advantages are now dispersed across multiple teams. This is beneficial both for New York's level of competitiveness (easier to beat Dublin subdivisional teams than the current unfairly advantaged single unit) and the fairness of the competition as whole

You haven't addressed my points, though. You're just reposting the same crap.

(3) HOW does it make it more competitive for New York? Or Leitrim?

(4) HOW much more likely are they to get out of Connaught?

(5) HOW are they going to meet these subdivisional Dublin teams that are easier to beat? They're not gonna meet them at all, are they, seeing as they've never made it far enough? Hell, Leitrim only made it far enough once in the last century, never mind New York.

(6) So how does it benefit them or make it fairer for them in any way, shape or form? It doesn't. Notionally, on paper, IF they managed to get out of Connaught and IF the Dublin sides also managed to do so and IF they were drawn together, then MAYBE they'd have a better chance at progressing, but that's a lot of Ifs and Maybes.

So even though there are more teams competing after a split, each Dublin divisional side is individually now easier to compete with for New York.

Currently they have 30 teams to compete against that are better then them, but you think increasing that number to 34 teams is better for them, because you want to restrict Dublin's chances. Introducing more 'good' teams will reduce their chances of progression, not increase them.

(7) Here's a question for you: If Dublin had been split in 4 at the start of last year's championship, would Leitrim's odds at winning the thing have increased (because there's a higher number of better teams than them to compete against), or would they have shortened (because the Dublin 'juggernaut' is no longer a factor)?

As long as Dublin have this unique combination of unfair advantages, it absolutely is not a fair competition.

More repetition, in the hope that it will stick.

Dublin's advantages are not unique. This has been pointed out to you and you keep refusing to accept it. Cork has a bigger advantage over Leitrim than Dublin do over Cork. By your own feckin reasoning, Cork should be split.

I've included 7 questions in my post here, if you're not going to bother answering them then your claims that you're debunking anything aren't worth but a fart in the wind.

RoyalCelt

Are Dublin still playing in the Leinster championship? What are they going for now 19/20? Most pointless tournament in Ireland.

Yeah Right

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121597666#Comment_121597666

Not our fault the culchie teams can't get their sh1t together, now, is it? Must be a Meathman with that username, I'll bet it stings.

Also, for the record, your cherry picked stats are shown to be a load of horsesh1t when compared with other provinces over a longer timeframe.......Munster championship has had four different winners in the last century, with two teams winning 98 of those 100 games. Surely this is more pointless, going by your own logic, no?

Billy_the_Kid

Dublin is far smaller in size than most counties with pitches at a premium. The value of land is far higher than other counties. Due to its unique combination of disadvantages and in the interest of fairness they should be given an increase in funding and allotted large swaths of lands in Meath and Kildare. You couldnt be having differences between counties right?

dunnerc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121597666#Comment_121597666

Agreed pointless tournament , but Munster is too is it not ?

MrRigsby

If population size is the deciding factor why do Cork win nothing and why don’t Dublin win the hurling? How did Kilkenny achieve all their success? Anyone who repeatedly won’t declare their county in a GAA discussion is obviously ashamed of where they come from

Did you smash it

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121598485#Comment_121598485

Cork win nothing? Nothing equals 37 all irelands across both codes?

I’m sorry but the arguments on both sides are so endlessly lacking any sense.

read the blog that I posted in the last page if you actually want to educate yourself on the reasons why the GAA invest in dublin….but you won’t do that. You’ll just go around in circles reciting the same argument for another 300 pages.

gaffer91

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121597643#Comment_121597643

I did address what you said. You can disregard it because it clashes with your partisan worldview but that's on you.

You shouldn't just come in demanding that people answer your laundry list of questions, especially when you don't reciprocate. You haven't addressed my issues at all (e.g. dealing with how Dublin are unfairly advantaged in terms of population, funding, playing at home etc) but in the interests of continuing our discussion, I'm happy to deal with your questions, despite having done so many times before including in my posts to you today where I debunked your previous comments.

1. I want Dublin to be split up to improve the fairness in the All-Ireland competition, for all counties, including Dublin, despite what you misquoted me as saying in your previous post. It enhances the GAA in Dublin because it means any potential Dublin divisional sides successes will come fairly, unlike currently. This is better for the GAA in Dublin.
2. No other county has the unique combination of unfair advantages that Dublin enjoy. That's why Dublin alone should be split. As I've said before, it's not just the fact Dublin are successful, it's more the fact this success is coming from an unfairly advantaged position.
3. By enhancing the prestige, integrity and fairness of the competition, it benefits smaller counties in the short-term but particularly the medium to long-term. Without splitting Dublin the game will probably fade away at inter-county level.
4. As above, interest will be enhanced in the competition once Dublin are split. This will make a small difference in the short term but the benefits will become more apparent as the years progress. Similar to how Dublin's unfair advantages took years to fully manifest. Not splitting Dublin definitely does nothing to help Leitrim get out of Connaught!
5. By dispersing the unfair advantages across several teams rather than one, the unfair advantages are significantly reduced and the competition becomes fairer and more competitive. I'm not sure what is hard to understand about this.
6. Same answer as for question 3. You need to get out of the mindset that the status quo can be justified. It can't, because of Dublin's unfair advantages. Leaving Dublin as a single entity is far, far more harmful to smaller counties than splitting them.
7. Same answer as for question 3.

You're wrong when you say Cork have a bigger population advantage over Leitrim than Dublin do over Cork, please check the absolute (not relative) figures in the latest census. By every metric, funding, population, playing at home, Dublin are leagues ahead of everyone else. Any one of these things would be a probably by itself but combine them all together, make the gaps enormous, concentrate them over decades and we realise how crazy the current situation is.

So i've dealt with your questions, now please explain to me how funding makes no difference in sport (far higher for Dublin than every other county), available playing pool makes no difference in sport (far higher for Dublin than every other county), how playing at home makes no difference (unique for Dublin in the All-Ireland). And also please explain how not splitting Dublin helps the likes of Leitrim and Carlow, who you clearly care so much about? Surely they don't benefit from all these unfair advantages being concentrated into a single team?

dunnerc

Go away with your nonsense, your fooling no one , all your after is to weaken Dublin to help your own County, and once again what County are you from ? We are all still waiting to hear !!

munster87

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121597976#Comment_121597976

Kerry man here...Munster is pointless.

The All Ireland is pretty pointless for the majority of counties participating in it too to be fair?

dunnerc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121599394#Comment_121599394

100% agreed munster87 probably only 6-7 counties can realistically win the All Ireland

Splitting Dublin wouldn't help the weaker Counties one bit .

munster87

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121599562#Comment_121599562

I’d like to see the top competition eventually made up of teams like in the AFL. Even starting out with a small number like 6 or 8 and growing from there.

Obviously still have the club competitions within counties.

I know a lot of history would be at risk but it’s not like it’s completely destroyed due to change.

reclose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121598694#Comment_121598694

This lad can’t be a serious poster?

dunnerc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121599618#Comment_121599618

13 years posting the same nonsense over and over again😏

RoyalCelt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121597976#Comment_121597976

Pretty pointless although not as bad as Leinster. At least cork have the ability to eventually catch up to Kerry unlike Leinster. Nobody will ever regularly challenge Dublin ever again.

It's been 20 years which is about a quarter of my life. In another 20 year's I expect Dublin to win every Leinster championship bar maybe two at best. So half my life the once most exciting football province pre over funding will be a waste.

RoyalCelt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121597686#Comment_121597686

If roles were reversed and Meath had Dublin's advantages we'd have won every Leinster the last 20 years. If yous had our situation you'd be a div 4 team. At least Kerry don't have everything in their favour. Pound for pound they're the best county by a country mile.

Most dubs don't even support yous anymore pre semi final. They're bored and they're not idiots. They can see the unfairness. Enjoy the next 20 Leinster championships because as long as Dublin are competing in it nobody outside of the nut jobs will.

dunnerc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121599952#Comment_121599952

Have a read of this and dry your eyes lad

Meath legend Bernard Flynn hits out at Royal chiefs over decade of decline

• https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/meath-legend-bernard-flynn-hits-out-at-royal-chiefs-over-decade-of-decline/a2105265459.html
• Bernard Flynn has claimed Meath footballers could fall even further adrift without an injection of leadership in the higher echelons of the county board.

RoyalCelt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121600178#Comment_121600178

Nah I'm good. Not surprised there's a decade of decline nobody with sense in Meath gives a shite about inter county anymore. People realise it's a waste of time the GAA want Dublin to win everything so why bother. Save your money, time and put it into something more productive. Let the dubs enjoy winning 100 Leinster's in a row because we're all just laughing at yous at this point.

dunnerc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121600402#Comment_121600402

So why waste your time whinging on here 😂