The Dominance of Dublin GAA Mod warning post#1

tritium wrote: »

Except the gap isn’t really growing except on your selective figures. Gd funding is being addressed and a number of counties are sorting out their commercials to maximise that stream. Equally you have this rather convenient habit of treating the county allocation as the be and end all while ignoring other funding that happens at a provincial level for example but benefits counties, and not at the same ratio as their county allocation. Then there’s your habit of harping in about money spent by the dublin clubs themselves as evidence of dublin spending: it’s very strange how other clubs outside dublin aren’t allowed to spend their own money isn’t it? Or the harping on about the high cost of membership in dublins clubs but miss that this is a choice they’ve made. GAA in dublins is traditionally strongest in working class communities so the argument about dubs have more money to pay subs doesn’t hold water either. It’s touching your concern for Mayo too, a county who have millions more income than their rivals. I suppose that is and always has been a fair level of competition? Tell me, have those millions bought Mayo any advantage or does money magically gain superpowers when it crosses the dublin border?

I don’t know why you think I’ll be defending Kerry either I’m the poster who has highlighted more than anyone the financial advantages Kerry and a few others have enjoyed over decades while you and other posters have been dismissive.I think at this point the one backed into a corner is yourself.

It is growing. I'm taking my figures from the Dublin county board. Dublin had sponsorship of 1.1 million in 2015, then it was 1.5 million in 2016, it was 2.3 million in 2020. Similarly, the spend on games development has increased to near 4 million per year. Are you saying these numbers are false?

We dealt with the provincial funding a long time ago. Counties including Dublin get funding from their provincial council's. This funding was enough for all counties bar Dublin to pay for between 1 and 6 coaches. You looked at the figures backing this up. Are you claiming they're false?

The funds available within Dublin clubs is a clear argument supporting the split. As has been noted by Dublin supporters, the resources are there for 4 counties to thrive. Do you have any evidence backing up your claim that it's only working class communities joining these clubs?

What financial advantages have you highlighted with Kerry? Do you have a problem with Kerry having a higher income level to anyone else? Can you explain the problems you have with them? Oh no, looks like you're trapped.

dobman88

Again using words to suit your agenda. Dublin funding. But Kerry income. Use like for like. Income from sponsorship has nothing to do with over funding from sports Ireland or whatever it is.

dobman88 wrote: »

Again using words to suit your agenda. Dublin funding. But Kerry income. Use like for like. Income from sponsorship has nothing to do with over funding from sports Ireland or whatever it is.

Maybe you can correct Dublin supporters misplaced victim complex? You know Kerry and the likes spending power is next on the list!

Obviously, the funding of Dublin and its results are the reasons for the split but having an annual income of 7 million plus and rising just adds to the urgency of it. Kerry had a one off year of extremely high income but we've already discussed pooled sponsorship etc which will sort that kind of thing.

I'm sure you can agree that continued income earnings of millions more than everyone else can't lead to fair competitions?

dobman88

Enquiring wrote: »

Maybe you can correct Dublin supporters misplaced victim complex? You know Kerry and the likes spending power is next on the list!

Obviously, the funding of Dublin and its results are the reasons for the split but having an annual income of 7 million plus and rising just adds to the urgency of it. Kerry had a one off year of extremely high income but we've already discussed pooled sponsorship etc which will sort that kind of thing.

I'm sure you can agree that continued income earnings of millions more than everyone else can't lead to fair competitions?

Again, you're talking about sponsorship. I couldnt give a fiddlers what any county gets through private sponsorship. If any county is unhappy or feel they are being given less than they should be by a sponsor, it's up to the county board to get a new, better deal.

If you have some evidence that Kerry were funded in line with Dublin from sports Ireland and the like, I'd be all for cutting that funding if it meant spreading it to smaller counties more evenly but while you continue to change the words to suit your agenda like funding and income, it's hard to take you seriously tbh

dobman88 wrote: »

Again, you're talking about sponsorship. I couldnt give a fiddlers what any county gets through private sponsorship. If any county is unhappy or feel they are being given less than they should be by a sponsor, it's up to the county board to get a new, better deal.

If you have some evidence that Kerry were funded in line with Dublin from sports Ireland and the like, I'd be all for cutting that funding if it meant spreading it to smaller counties more evenly but while you continue to change the words to suit your agenda like funding and income, it's hard to take you seriously tbh

You've made your position on fair competitions clear before. Discussing pooled sponsorship etc is for another thread.

You need to talk to the poster tritium looking for evidence in relation to funding etc. He appears to be making the claim that Kerry have been over funded a lot longer than Dublin.

dobman88

Enquiring wrote: »

You've made your position on fair competitions clear before.

I have and I'm all for it. The sooner we get a tiered system the fairer it will be for every county to have a decent shot at all Ireland honours.

dobman88 wrote: »

I have and I'm all for it. The sooner we get a tiered system the fairer it will be for every county to have a decent shot at all Ireland honours.

Your idea of fair competitions is Dublin and Kerry spending millions so they can go back to the good old days of a 2 team football championship. That's not in anyone else's interest.

Have you messaged tritium in relation to his issues with Kerry's finances?

tritium

Enquiring wrote: »

It is growing. I'm taking my figures from the Dublin county board. Dublin had sponsorship of 1.1 million in 2015, then it was 1.5 million in 2016, it was 2.3 million in 2020. Similarly, the spend on games development has increased to near 4 million per year. Are you saying these numbers are false?

We dealt with the provincial funding a long time ago. Counties including Dublin get funding from their provincial council's. This funding was enough for all counties bar Dublin to pay for between 1 and 6 coaches. You looked at the figures backing this up. Are you claiming they're false?

The funds available within Dublin clubs is a clear argument supporting the split. As has been noted by Dublin supporters, the resources are there for 4 counties to thrive. Do you have any evidence backing up your claim that it's only working class communities joining these clubs?

What financial advantages have you highlighted with Kerry? Do you have a problem with Kerry having a higher income level to anyone else? Can you explain the problems you have with them? Oh no, looks like you're trapped.

Keep flogging that dead horse, might come to life yet

Do I have a problem with Kerry? Not once everyone’s happy that the imbalance that’s existed in the GAA for many many decades is just continuing. If I were from most of the Munster counties I might legitimately ask why everyone cares about resources when dublin are mentioned but didn’t care for decades when Kerry were dishing out the hidings. A few Connacht counties might legitimately ask the same of mayo. Personally I’d love to see weaker counties funded better but a split of Dublin does nothing for that. Your split proposal would simply split dublin income 4 ways while keeping exceptionally high income levels for Mayo, Kerry and a handful of others.

In terms of dublin GAA, are you actually aware of where many dublin clubs are concentrated- ballymun, finglas for example. it’s actually been one of the talking points for the last number of years that the development was leaving that group behind, someone pointed out a few years ago how tallaght for example wasn’t seeing as many players come through to the dublin team as in the past.

The funds within dublin clubs have nothing to say about the split. Not without accounting for the costs associated with managing a bigger pool of people in a more expensive environment A more legitimate question is if dublin clubs charge higher subs to their members but as a result can resource half the cost of a coach for example what’s to stop any other club or group of clubs doing the same?

On the other funding we really didn’t address it. Millions in gd funding isnt accounted for in your selective figures. And your only argument is that it must get distributed in the same way. Where is the breakdown for this?

It’s interesting you didn’t address the point in mayos financial advantages over many of their opponents btw

tritium wrote: »

Keep flogging that dead horse, might come to life yet

Do I have a problem with Kerry? Not once everyone’s happy that the imbalance that’s existed in the GAA for many many decades is just continuing. If I were from most of the Munster counties I might legitimately ask why everyone cares about resources when dublin are mentioned but didn’t care for decades when Kerry were dishing out the hidings. A few Connacht counties might legitimately ask the same of mayo. Personally I’d love to see weaker counties funded better but a split of Dublin does nothing for that. Your split proposal would simply split dublin income 4 ways while keeping exceptionally high income levels for Mayo, Kerry and a handful of others.

In terms of dublin GAA, are you actually aware of where many dublin clubs are concentrated- ballymun, finglas for example. it’s actually been one of the talking points for the last number of years that the development was leaving that group behind, someone pointed out a few years ago how tallaght for example wasn’t seeing as many players come through to the dublin team as in the past.

The funds within dublin clubs have nothing to say about the split. Not without accounting for the costs associated with managing a bigger pool of people in a more expensive environment A more legitimate question is if dublin clubs charge higher subs to their members but as a result can resource half the cost of a coach for example what’s to stop any other club or group of clubs doing the same?

On the other funding we really didn’t address it. Millions in gd funding isnt accounted for in your selective figures. And your only argument is that it must get distributed in the same way. Where is the breakdown for this?

It’s interesting you didn’t address the point in mayos financial advantages over many of their opponents btw

Maybe you can outline the issues you have with Kerry and provide some evidence, dobman has requested some above.

The aim is for everyone to compete on an equal footing. That includes all counties. The only inconsistency here is coming from yourself. You have issues with finances of other counties but none for Dublin who have far more!

So you also have no evidence to back up your claim that it's just working class people joining clubs. That's a very lengthy list of claims you've made that you failed to back up.

The cost of club memberships and land issues is very much connected to the split. It shows that the 4 counties are well positioned to thrive and also the new county boards will be better placed to sort land issues with their already established county councils.

We did address it. The funding paid for between 1 to 6 coaches. You read the data supporting this.

Mayo's finances have been brought up before and we had Mayo posters state they had no issue with the extra funding being sorted out. It appears to be only Dublin and Kerry supporters who want the status quo to continue.

You still have failed to justify your view that 2 decades of over funding and increased income of over 7 million annually off the back of that is all fine without resorting to whataboutery. Are you unable to justify it?

Enquiring wrote: »

Maybe you can correct Dublin supporters misplaced victim complex? You know Kerry and the likes spending power is next on the list!

Obviously, the funding of Dublin and its results are the reasons for the split but having an annual income of 7 million plus and rising just adds to the urgency of it. Kerry had a one off year of extremely high income but we've already discussed pooled sponsorship etc which will sort that kind of thing.

I'm sure you can agree that continued income earnings of millions more than everyone else can't lead to fair competitions?

What split ? , there is no split , and there wont be anytime soon if ever

the kelt

superbluedub wrote: »

What split ? , there is no split , and there wont be anytime soon if ever

I think there will be.

And its unfortunate because its not Dublins fault, they only made the best use of every advantage that was handed to them but its gone too far unfortunately.

The GAA have a lot to answer for

tritium

the kelt wrote: »

I think there will be.

And its unfortunate because its not Dublins fault, they only made the best use of every advantage that was handed to them but its gone too far unfortunately.

The GAA have a lot to answer for

There won’t be a split any time soon I reckon. A small number of the stronger counties may try to push it but the majority of counties will see nothing for them in a change that simply reinforces the previous status quo. Most of the smaller counties will be more interested in how they get their hands on gdos and queuing to pay their 50% share since they see that the system is a good and innovative one. They’ll basically see it as their chance to catch up to the mayos and Kerry’s (which it is) and the GAA need to support that (and to be fair they seem to be)

If the stronger counties push a split in their own self interest they actually run the risk of it coming back to bite them. Many of the counties that have traditionally been ignored and left behind will legitimately ask why it’s ok for Kerry and Mayo to have massive resources and why they’re not also being restructured. Once that happens the whole inter county structure of the championship is up for debate. That’s a whole separate discussion but realistically the strongest counties would likely cease to exist in a restructure of that magnitude.

Be careful what you wish for

Jaden

The intercounty setup is no longer a viable proposition in the long term - if the measure of viability is an even chance for all participants to attain honours. It could be argued very strongly that it was never fair. I don't think anyone is claiming otherwise. The imbalance is inherent in the county division system.

Realistically, a move away from this setup to a more even distribution of resource (Funding, Population) is the only way to ensure inherent fairness. I'm just not sure the appetite to embrace this brave new world exists yet. Alot of the ethos of the GAA is mired in tradition, and building up enough forward momentum to overcome this inertia is no small task.

Rosita

Enquiring wrote: »

But as it is, I've already noted that the 4 new counties have the population and resources to thrive. They will be better positioned to promote hurling and football in our capital. I don't see how you think having 4 new competitive teams in hurling and football is counter productive?

Having four new competitive teams in the Dublin area is counter-productive if the plan is to re-energise the competitions from the point of view of other counties. In the long run it'd make Dublin stronger and potentially reconfigure the whole football competition into a Dublin-centric competition. You'd end up with a few counties dotted around the country in isolation like Antrim's hurlers.
If you're happy with that of course then it's not counter-productive. But when I used the phrase I assumed the object of your argument was to declaw Dublin.

tritium

Jaden wrote: »

The intercounty setup is no longer a viable proposition in the long term - if the measure of viability is an even chance for all participants to attain honours. It could be argued very strongly that it was never fair. I don't think anyone is claiming otherwise. The imbalance is inherent in the county division system.

Realistically, a move away from this setup to a more even distribution of resource (Funding, Population) is the only way to ensure inherent fairness. I'm just not sure the appetite to embrace this brave new world exists yet. Alot of the ethos of the GAA is mired in tradition, and building up enough forward momentum to overcome this inertia is no small task.

It’s a big one alright. If you were building it from the ground up tomorrow you’d probably say most of the top counties could support at least two teams and several small counties weren’t by themselves large enough to support a team. It would create enormous logistical issues to change things as well, some sponsors for example may be locked in for years. That said once the talk of splits gets going it’s inevitable that the inherent historical inequality of the GAA is on the table and all of these discussions are fair game. Could west Mayo vs east Mayo be a viable local derby? In soccer we see it often between city teams but the history and ethos is quite different.- who knows?

the kelt wrote: »

I think there will be.

And its unfortunate because its not Dublins fault, they only made the best use of every advantage that was handed to them but its gone too far unfortunately.

The GAA have a lot to answer for

And your entitled to your opinion , sure its all only opinions afterall

It's clear the argument defending the funding disparity has been lost and lost badly. Dublin supporters are just close of saying they're taking their ball and going home.

This is what we can expect when this gets even more publicity and momentum in the media etc. The empty threats will be thrown about along with the abuse and deflection. It's important everyone in favour of change stand up to this and let the facts and evidence do the talking. That's what those who want fair competitions have in our favour. The numbers and data speaks for itself.

Rosita wrote: »

Having four new competitive teams in the Dublin area is counter-productive if the plan is to re-energise the competitions from the point of view of other counties. In the long run it'd make Dublin stronger and potentially reconfigure the whole football competition into a Dublin-centric competition. You'd end up with a few counties dotted around the country in isolation like Antrim's hurlers.
If you're happy with that of course then it's not counter-productive. But when I used the phrase I assumed the object of your argument was to declaw Dublin.

Basically you're picking something out of thin air with nothing at all to back it up. A sure sign of a weak defense.

Enquiring wrote: »

It's clear the argument defending the funding disparity has been lost and lost badly. Dublin supporters are just close of saying they're taking their ball and going home.

This is what we can expect when this gets even more publicity and momentum in the media etc. The empty threats will be thrown about along with the abuse and deflection. It's important everyone in favour of change stand up to this and let the facts and evidence do the talking. That's what those who want fair competitions have in our favour. The numbers and data speaks for itself.

In your opinion

TCP/IP

ShyMets wrote: »

In your opinion

Your better off not engaging with the OP as he has a very clear agenda and best not fall to his level.

TCP/IP wrote: »

Your better off not engaging with the OP as he has a very clear agenda and best not fall to his level.

Their agenda is very clear. The OP also has talent for avoiding answering certain questions or just plain ignoring them
.
But I enjoy indulging them from time to time. It's a guilty pleasure

ShyMets wrote: »

In your opinion

You're free to outline why Dublin should be allowed to continue as is with 2 decades of over funding and the resulting annual income of 5 and 6 million more than most other counties.

Try to give an answer without whataboutery. No one has even attempted to justify it up to now.

Rosita

Jaden wrote: »

The intercounty setup is no longer a viable proposition in the long term - if the measure of viability is an even chance for all participants to attain honours. It could be argued very strongly that it was never fair. I don't think anyone is claiming otherwise. The imbalance is inherent in the county division system.

/QUOTE]

Only problem with this is that sport never sets out to give all participants an even chance. That's an unrealistic premise for starters.

Enquiring wrote: »

You're free to outline why Dublin should be allowed to continue as is with 2 decades of over funding and the resulting annual income of 5 and 6 million more than most other counties.

Try to give an answer without whataboutery. No one has even attempted to justify it up to now.

You're also free to outline the answer to the question I asked you a couple of days back about what you where doing to effect change beyond posting on Boards ie.

ShyMets wrote: »

You're also free to outline the answer to the question I asked you a couple of days back about what you where doing to effect change beyond posting on Boards ie.

That's already been outlined. Watch out for congress 2022. You have any defence of the funding?

Enquiring wrote: »

That's already been outlined. Watch out for congress 2022. You have any defence of the funding?

No it has not. Beyond posting on Boards you have never specifically outlined what you are doing to effect change.

Enquiring wrote: »

That's already been outlined. Watch out for congress 2022. You have any defence of the funding?

Yea looking forward to congress 2022 , the splitting Dublin in 4 followers
will be drying there eyes .

superbluedub wrote: »

Yea looking forward to congress 2022 , the splitting Dublin in 4 followers
will be drying there eyes .

Let's see. Change is definitely coming, we'll just have to wait to find out what that is. One things for sure, not many in the GAA world will be left unaware of the level of funding disparity in Dublin's favour for the past 2 decades and the resources they now possess. The near 100 titles Dublin GAA have won since 2002 will forever be associated with the funding disparity.