The Dominance of Dublin GAA Mod warning post#1

https://www.dublingaa.ie/news/dubs-going-to-the-dogs-players-holiday-fundraiser

Enquiring wrote: »

You're just talking about football here. 22 counties have won provincial championships since the 90's. Directly prior to the Dublin funding taking effect, 5 other counties won Leinster championships. Last year we saw Cavan and Tipperary win provincial titles. Monaghan with a very small population have been competing at the top level. There is nothing wrong with senior football apart from one county receiving special treatment and being artificially placed at the top of the tree.

Yes, other counties need funding. That has to be done but first Dublin must be split.

Absolutely. Anyone who defends this nonsense needs to ask themselves when was the last time you seen Dublin GAA out begging for money recently? Out raffling houses or as Leitrim are doing at the moment, getting supporters out walking 50 miles to raise 50k. 50k. Dublin GAA probably turn over 50k in a week but they still put out 15 players on a football field as every other county. You won't see a Dublin panel player out trying to raise money for their county because they don't have to.

Anyone who says that money has no bearing on how a team performs is utterly deluded. Money buys professional structures, professional structures that Dublin have at the moment... a full time paid CEO, full time commercial manager, a backroom team as large as the entire panel,funded games promotion officers for each club and so on.... money allows clubs to produce a conveyor belt of talent trained and nurtured to perform. Add population in to the mix and it's an unstoppable force. Until every county is funded in the same way as Dublin, nothing will change.

ooter

Gael85

ooter wrote: »

https://www.dublingaa.ie/news/dubs-going-to-the-dogs-players-holiday-fundraiser

The friends of Dublin football also have a yearly corporate gig in the Shelbourne Hotel as a fundraiser. Think it was 3k for a table.

ooter wrote: »

https://www.dublingaa.ie/news/dubs-going-to-the-dogs-players-holiday-fundraiser

A link from 2015. A handy corporate gig at 3k a pop. I see.

FullBack Jam

ooter wrote: »

https://www.dublingaa.ie/news/dubs-going-to-the-dogs-players-holiday-fundraiser

You're sending a link that's nearly 5.5 years old!!! Anything a bit more recent?

It wasn't great financial management to be fair. After spending the millions on the CEO, the commercial manager, the backroom team, the promotion officers, nutritionists, and everyone else who joined the gravy train, they forgot to leave a few bob aside for the central figures - the players!! tut tut.

ooter

I'm just pointing out that Dublin panel players do try to raise money for their county.
People seem to be able to throw out statements like confetti on here without having to back them up.
The same event definitely went ahead in 2017, not sure about 18 or 19.

ooter wrote: »

I'm just pointing out that Dublin panel players do try to raise money for their county.
People seem to be able to throw out statements like confetti on here without having to back them up.
The same event definitely went ahead in 2017, not sure about 18 or 19.

Have a look at the graphic in this article and you will see how what a pittance Dublin fundraising is compared to any other county. Sure why would they bother

https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/dublin-reign-supreme-but-where-does-your-county-rank-on-the-2018-gaa-rich-list-36922874.html

ArielAtom

I think a lot of people are forgetting that sponsorship is fundraising.

JeffKenna

ArielAtom wrote: »

I think a lot of people are forgetting that sponsorship is fundraising.

A simple Google search will tell you it's not.

ArielAtom

JeffKenna wrote: »

A simple Google search will tell you it's not.

A simple google search suggest it can be, if you look at all the descriptions.

StupidLikeAFox wrote: »

Have a look at the graphic in this article and you will see how what a pittance Dublin fundraising is compared to any other county. Sure why would they bother

https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/dublin-reign-supreme-but-where-does-your-county-rank-on-the-2018-gaa-rich-list-36922874.html

Exactly, why would they bother when full time Dublin GAA employee, Tomas Quinn, knocks on doors for them to get the juicy corporate sponsorship money. No 10eurs in the biscuit tin jobbies. But according to folk on this thread there's no problem. Nothing to see here.

This is the GAA, an Amateur organisation, not the bloody Premiership.

ShyMets

FromADistance wrote: »

Exactly, why would they bother when full time Dublin GAA employee, Tomas Quinn, knocks on doors for them to get the juicy corporate sponsorship money. No 10eurs in the biscuit tin jobbies. But according to folk on this thread there's no problem. Nothing to see here.

This is the GAA, an Amateur organisation, not the bloody Premiership.

So how should Dublin get sponsorship. Just sit around and hope some company approaches them

FullBack Jam

ArielAtom wrote: »

A simple google search suggest it can be, if you look at all the descriptions.

Is this the same type of definition system that you have that deems that Parnell Park is Dublin's home pitch because Parnell Park is mentioned at the bottom of some website. :rolleyes::rolleyes::o:o
But you ignore the real world where Dublin senior men's team don't play any championship matches in Parnell Park.

15 seconds on google will tell you the difference.
Two major sources of funding are fundraising and sponsorship – it is a common mistake to confuse these two, and an even bigger challenge when they are treated the same. ... For the purposes of this article, fundraising includes grants, donations and events, and sponsorship includes providing marketing value.Nov 12, 2018

Fundraising vs. Sponsorship: Which Is Right For You? - CSAE ...

ShyMets wrote: »

So how should Dublin get sponsorship. Just sit around and hope some company approaches them

Talking about missing the point...

Not every county has the luxury of a full time commercial manager. I take you haven't much of a clue about how counties fundraise and the difficulties faced with a statement like that.

ShyMets

FromADistance wrote: »

Talking about missing the point...

Not every county has the luxury of a full time commercial manager. I take you haven't much of a clue about how counties fundraise and the difficulties faced with a statement like that.

But its not Dublin's fault if other counties haven't such people in place

ooter

It's the same type of definition system that deems that dublin senior hurling has been a success post funding because they had a decent year about 10 years ago when they won a leinster and a league.

[Deleted User]

Of course Dublin has the most funding, it needs it because it has the most players, when its split it should continue to get the most money, I think that's obvious. That money isn't to be spent on county teams (apart from sponsorship) for the most part, but clubs.
The county absolutely has to be split, the demographic divide is way too big, no other county can compete with them. Interest in intercounty football is way down, there's a fierce sense of inevitability about it.
Kilkenny became dominant but we knew it couldn't last indefinitely because of the size of the county. Limerick may well dominate now, but that too will be temporary. With Dublin it has lasted longer than ever in history and we know it will continue because of the population.

ArielAtom

flasher0030 wrote: »

Is this the same type of definition system that you have that deems that Parnell Park is Dublin's home pitch because Parnell Park is mentioned at the bottom of some website. :rolleyes::rolleyes::o:o
But you ignore the real world where Dublin senior men's team don't play any championship matches in Parnell Park.

15 seconds on google will tell you the difference.
Two major sources of funding are fundraising and sponsorship – it is a common mistake to confuse these two, and an even bigger challenge when they are treated the same. ... For the purposes of this article, fundraising includes grants, donations and events, and sponsorship includes providing marketing value.Nov 12, 2018

Fundraising vs. Sponsorship: Which Is Right For You? - CSAE ...

As I said there are conflicting descriptions on both, but you choose the one that suits you, it your choice, well done, and as you have stated Parnell Park is the home of Dublin GAA, that is not up for discussion.

Rosita

FromADistance wrote: »

Exactly, why would they bother when full time Dublin GAA employee, Tomas Quinn, knocks on doors for them to get the juicy corporate sponsorship money. No 10eurs in the biscuit tin jobbies. But according to folk on this thread there's no problem. Nothing to see here.

This is the GAA, an Amateur organisation, not the bloody Premiership.

The difference between having a full-time employee knocking up commercial opportunities and those in rural pubs on a Saturday night selling lottery tickets so that they can hand money over to a coach is one of scale rather than kind. By all means argue the point on Dublin on the basis of unsustainable competitive advantage but let's not overplay the amateur thing as if there's some innate moral superiority in having a parish of 400 people.

Rosita wrote: »

The difference between having a full-time employee knocking up commercial opportunities and those in rural pubs on a Saturday night selling lottery tickets so that they can hand money over to a coach is one of scale rather than kind. By all means argue the point on Dublin on the basis of unsustainable competitive advantage but let's not overplay the amateur thing as if there's some innate moral superiority in having a parish of 400 people.

Theres a huge difference between the likes of Fermanagh depending on their supporters club to fundraise for games development personnel, or clubs in Cork coming together to self fund a gdo - compared to Dublin who get a subsidised gdo in every club, several million in sponsorship, a surplus of over 1m a year from commercial activities and zero need to fundraise. It beggars belief how unequitable it is - the gaa is giving the richest team the most resources, it wouldn't be tolerated in any other sport

Rosita

StupidLikeAFox wrote: »

Theres a huge difference between the likes of Fermanagh depending on their supporters club to fundraise for games development personnel, or clubs in Cork coming together to self fund a gdo - compared to Dublin who get a subsidised gdo in every club, several million in sponsorship, a surplus of over 1m a year from commercial activities and zero need to fundraise. It beggars belief how unequitable it is - the gaa is giving the richest team the most resources, it wouldn't be tolerated in any other sport

It's telling how your answer doesn't touch the sides of the point I made about the comments on Tomás Quinn. If want to argue something different that's fine but you need to address it elsewhere.

Rosita wrote: »

The difference between having a full-time employee knocking up commercial opportunities and those in rural pubs on a Saturday night selling lottery tickets so that they can hand money over to a coach is one of scale rather than kind. By all means argue the point on Dublin on the basis of unsustainable competitive advantage but let's not overplay the amateur thing as if there's some innate moral superiority in having a parish of 400 people.

In my opinion, the GAA is only as strong as the sum of its parts, as strong as its weakest link. Some people won't be happy until it goes fully pro. Dublin are as near a pro setup as one can get. 6 All Ireland's a row and no sign of that changing anytime soon. I'm certainly not moralising about how a parish club is financed vs a county setup but the current suitation where you have counties barely able to finance themselves is hardly sustainable. It's certainly more evident in these difficult times.

A commercial manager is a complete luxury for most counties, and lets be honest, for a lot of counties, the commercial opportunities that Dublin enjoy are just simply not there. So until the playing field is made more equitable when it comes to financial resources and Dublin is split for the greater good of the wider game, nothing will change.

Rosita wrote: »

It's telling how your answer doesn't touch the sides of the point I made about the comments on Tomás Quinn. If want to argue something different that's fine but you need to address it elsewhere.

The difference is that if another county wanted to employ a full time commercial manager, they would need to divert resources from somewhere else to do that, then hope that the guy is good enough to squeeze enough money from a limited pool of potential sponsors to cover his salary and make a decent profit to go back to development.

If the Dublin model of having professional chairmen, commercial directors and coaching staff is the way forward then the gaa need to step-in and help counties set that up, because Dublin can afford these things off their own back, other counties cant. And if that needs to come from pooled sponsorship, central resources etc then fair enough

Its not anti Dublin to propose this - it would benefit the entire gaa to have a more even playing field off the pitch

superbluedub

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

Of course Dublin has the most funding, it needs it because it has the most players, when its split it should continue to get the most money, I think that's obvious. That money isn't to be spent on county teams (apart from sponsorship) for the most part, but clubs.
The county absolutely has to be split, the demographic divide is way too big, no other county can compete with them. Interest in intercounty football is way down, there's a fierce sense of inevitability about it.
Kilkenny became dominant but we knew it couldn't last indefinitely because of the size of the county. Limerick may well dominate now, but that too will be temporary. With Dublin it has lasted longer than ever in history and we know it will continue because of the population.

If Dublin is to be split , there will have to be mergers , other wise
Dublin Gaa will never accept it

superbluedub wrote: »

If Dublin is to be split , there will have to be mergers , other wise
Dublin Gaa will never accept it

It'll never happen - you can't redraw one county's boundaries on the basis of population but then ignore all the others. It would be a radical change and the gaa don't really do radical changes

Enquiring wrote: »

The coaches go to schools for player recruitment and coaching but their main role is within the club they're hired by. Developing talent within the club, coaching other coaches etc is their main duty. They also develop elite talent, organise camps etc. Their influence is huge.

Every club would love to have someone like this on board. It would be of enormous benefit. You want it ignored but the fact that this was only available for Dublin clubs is the major issue. Why wasn't it made available across the country? Why was the finance ring fenced for Dublin?

Most clubs can't afford these coaches. Even with the enormous wealth in Dublin, they are still claiming the money to pay for half the coaches wages. The huge impact the professional coaches have made to standards in Dublin is obvious and has been admitted to by high level employees of Dublin GAA.

It has been ongoing since 2002, every other county have had to operate with limited resources while Dublin had access to their own special fund. It should never have happened to begin with and the realisation that it has to be stopped is dawning on many.

You keep coming out with this trip, jesus this thread is like Groundhog Day. The GAA don’t drop a coach in nearly every club in dublins. A few pages back you told us they had provided 90 coaches. Then it was 72. On top of that you don’t even have a solid figure on the number of clubs in dublin. The numbers of games development personell for dublin have been provided in links already. At a generous push it’s mid 60’s (you might tell us which job titles you want to include) the clubs paid for half of that. That works out at around 30 people provided for dublin by the GAA to develop the game with kids.

What’s ghat, it was a special dublin only project? Well yes it was . Why was that I wonder. Two obvious reasons: the first was GAA self interest. A realisation that they’d neglected one of their cash cows and it was dying. The rest of the GAA basically didn’t want to lose the money dublin could ultimately provide them with. The second if you read the Leinster council proceedings was that this was a new approach because the GAA were sick of development funds finding their way into other county spends. This was a trial of a project that had full oversight and accountability to ensure the money was spent on development and not on the inter county team. Read that last sentence again because it’s fundamental to what the project was. Not dublin inter county, building the game across dublin.

When you tell us everyone else only got 6 fully funded maybe you could acknowledge that dublin getting 5x the coaches paid for might reflect that they have more than 5x the people to spread the game to than many of those. That’s before you allocate the rest of the GD spend that clearly is not distributed in the same ratios.

What’s that you say? But cork only got 6 with so many people? You give me cork and I’ll raise you Leitrim. Maybe you should talk to the GAA about how they define the coaching needs. Certainly on a per capita Leinster for example with 118 resources dedicated to games dev is doing far better than dublin at the moment.

What’s that you say, but the clubs spent their own money to hire coaches? Fair ****s to them, it’s their money. Absolutely no reason a club or group of clubs elsewhere couldn’t be doing the same. Apart from they couldn’t be arsed. And yes that should mean they get some say on how the coaches time is used. I’ve seen the efforts my own club has put into raising funds to develop the facilities and I’ve seen the challenges it’s faced so please don’t try this ****e that the dublin clubs have it easy somehow

Oh but you say dublin have all this sponsor revenue. Again fair ****s to them. When counties can say with a straight face that they’ve looked to maximise what they can, by incrementally growing their brand,like dublin and Kerry are, like cork are starting to I’ll be open to the idea of some redistribution of a portion. While they still want to sit on their hand and beggar their neighbors not so much. Maybe if they’d started that a decade ago instead of laughing at the dubs strategic plan they’d be a bit closer now.

SheepsClothing wrote: »

I didn't know London and New York were counties. Good to learn something new.

Well if population is such an advantage those two should be cleaning up.....

Enquiring wrote: »

Yes, all counties should demand fair funding as one of the key elements of this movement. Splitting Dublin is central to it as well though. Without that, we would be allowing one county compete on a professional basis. It would be contrary to the ideals of fair play.

You still refuse to define fair apart from some wishy washy “a committee would look at it” . Is it roughly per capita for example? If it is then when all gd funding is split dublins will get an increase for example

SheepsClothing wrote: »

It shouldn't be that complicated. Splits are by their nature, less alienating than amalgamations. Somebody who was born and raised in the Fingal County Council area has been affiliated and thought of themselves as part of that area for much of/all of their life.

Somebody born and raised in Monaghan, has never affiliated themselves with being from Cavan, in fact they consider Cavan their rival. If suddenly, the Mavan senior football team is formed, that Monaghan supporter is going to have much harder time supporting the Mavan team, than the former Dublin supporter will have supporting Fingal.

There's also the fact that splitting Dublin is the path of least resistance to bringing about some semblance of competition. Splitting Dublin and disfranchising one counties support(I personally think it would drive support) for the benefit of the other 31, is easier than disenfranchising the other 31 counties in order to suit the one runaway train county.

You’re clearly not a dub so. People in fingal have basically no affiliation to fingal, it’s basically an artificial construct to most people. They consider themselves Dubliners primarily. Basically you don’t know what you’re talking about.

Since that doesn’t matter to you then amalgamation should be just as palatable. Don’t worry if some counties are traditional rivals, that could be resolved by splitting the county, say split Kerry in two and merge half with part of cork for example and half with another with part of Limerick. The two Kerry’s would quickly develop a strong rivalry (Actually to be fairly to Leitrim we could of course have franchises equal to the population size of that county but that probably gets cumbersome)

When you say some semblance of competition I assume what you mean is a return to the status quo? It certainly won’t help the leitrims or make Munster more competitive given it hasn’t been for over a century. Strange that that version of uncompetitive is ok for you.