The Dominance of Dublin GAA *Mod warning post#1*

Enquiring

tritium wrote: »

Very sneaky. What he’s actually conceded is that Connellanns figures (which he doesn’t debate) indicate disproportionate funding if you read the full quote- I. Fact he explicitly says that!. He also explains why it was necessary, including the neglect of sport in dublin




Again, do you agree with all his points, including those that make a no sense of stuff you’ve posted here?

He says there is no argument against what was put forward. The disproportionate funding led to the decimation of the men's Leinster championship. It's what we already knew to be true but having the Leinster council chairman face up to the fact has to be welcomed.

tritium

Enquiring wrote: »

He says there is no argument against what was put forward. The disproportionate funding led to the decimation of the men's Leinster championship. It's what we already knew to be true but having the Leinster council chairman face up to the fact has to be welcomed.

He says exactly what he means, he’s very explicit. Only someone trying to sandbag a leaking argument would look to selectively quote him to serve their argument

One last time - do you accept his points that make nonsense of stuff you’ve posted here?
(Last time because any more asking into a vacuum would likely derail this thread, given its your standard tactic I’ll take silence as an acknowledgement in that case)

Enquiring

tritium wrote: »

He says exactly what he means, he’s very explicit. O lily someone trying to sandbag a leaking argument would look to selectively quote him to serve their argument

One last time - do you accept his points that make nonsense of stuff you’ve posted here?
(Last time because any more asking into a vacuum would likely derail this thread, given its your standard tactic I’ll take silence as an acknowledgement in that case)

That was the big draw from the interview. The Leinster council chairman who actively tries to defend the over funding of Dublin admitted that it has led to the decimation of the Leinster football championship at a minimum.

Nothing in the rest of the article goes against anything I've said. In fact, it backs up what I've been saying. I think you need to read the article more closely.

JeffKenna

tritium wrote: »

Very sneaky. What he’s actually conceded is that Connellanns figures (which he doesn’t debate) indicate disproportionate funding if you read the full quote- I. Fact he explicitly says that!. He also explains why it was necessary, including the neglect of sport in dublin




Again, do you agree with all his points, including those that make a no sense of stuff you’ve posted here?

This is actually ridiculous at this stage. It's there in black and white what he said. If you want to make something up and claim he didn't say what he said by all means do.

flasher0030

tritium wrote: »

He says exactly what he means, he’s very explicit. Only someone trying to sandbag a leaking argument would look to selectively quote him to serve their argument

One last time - do you accept his points that make nonsense of stuff you’ve posted here?
(Last time because any more asking into a vacuum would likely derail this thread, given its your standard tactic I’ll take silence as an acknowledgement in that case)

You really need to go back and read the article a little more closely.

tritium

flasher0030 wrote: »

You really need to go back and read the article a little more closely. Or if you cannot understand it, have some interpret it for you.

No offence mate but if you think that article advances the anti dublin argument you’re delusional. Teehan hands Connellan his arse- by the end he’s conceded the dublin project was completely necessary and is reduced to whinging about Galway to the Leinster council chairman

ArielAtom

tritium wrote: »

No offence mate but if you think that article advances the anti dublin argument you’re delusional. Teehan hands Connellan his arse- by the end he’s conceded the dublin project was completely necessary and is reduced to whinging about Galway to the Leinster council chairman

Well said. To the point and no waffle, unlike some of the replies you receive, some posters think quantity trumps quality😂

tritium

Enquiring wrote: »

That was the big draw from the interview. The Leinster council chairman who actively tries to defend the over funding of Dublin admitted that it has led to the decimation of the Leinster football championship at a minimum.

Nothing in the rest of the article goes against anything I've said. In fact, it backs up what I've been saying. I think you need to read the article more closely.

I guess I’ve mixed you up with the poster who said this.

Enquiring wrote: »

Just so we're clear here. Posters such as the above have tried to claim that the funding has stopped since 2017 and it only began in 2007. Proof will be provided to show that this is false. Also, many are not aware of the figures or willfully ignore them. The more people know about just how much Dublin were given above every other county, the better. Let's end the farce.

Pat Teehan has confirmed in the article that the dublin funding has actually been scaled back since 2017 to a sustaining level, while funding for the rest of Leinster has tripled. Unless you’re arguing that dublin should get zero from the GAA Pat just sank you there.

Now I’m sure you’ll pull your usual cute hoor stuff where you assure us that you really meant what pat said but to be honest no one without an axe to grind is buying it anymore

Enquiring

tritium wrote: »

I guess I’ve mixed you up with the poster who said this.



Pat Teehan has confirmed in the article that the dublin funding has actually been scaled back since 2017 to a sustaining level, while funding for the rest of Leinster has tripled. Unless you’re arguing that dublin should get zero from the GAA Pat just sank you there.

Now I’m sure you’ll pull your usual cute hoor stuff where you assure us that you really meant what pat said but to be honest no one without an axe to grind is buying it anymore

Nothing new came from that article except the first high profile admittance that the funding disparity has made a mess of the football championship. It once again shows that the argument that the money was just for primary school kids or had no effect on the improvement in Dublin GAA across the board is absolute nonsense. Even the Leinster council chairman, someone who wants to defend the funding disparity, has confirmed the obvious.

So the Dublin coaching program didn't end in 2017. Where are you getting the impression it did? Instead of unbalanced funding in favour of Dublin, it's now unbalanced funding in favour of Dublin, Meath, Louth, Wicklow and Kildare. This is after almost 2 decades of Dublin only schemes.

tritium

Then there was this gem

Enquiring wrote: »

I've already said that the clubs pay for half the wages of the coach in the Dublin only scheme. The rest is paid by taxpayers, the GAA and the Leinster council. This adds up to more than 30 million since 2002.

If Dublin have around 90 clubs and around 75 coaches, that is nearly one per club. Definitely nearly one per club for all the clubs in the top divisions.

Dublin are way overfunded and have access to far more coaches to anyone else. From 2015, Dublin only had 12% of the total of registered players aged 8-18.

To be fair you already rolled back from claiming 90 coaches so you were in fast retreat at this point.

Enquiring wrote: »

Leinster isn't a county. There is no coaching plan in operation like the Dublin only scheme where there's a paid coach or two for nearly every club. While Dublin had about 90 paid coaches, every other county had below 6 with some just with 1!

Pat makes it nice and clear:

the model we are copying now for the rest of Leinster, whereby the clubs contribute and the Games Promotion Officer goes into the club and it’s a part-funded by both. The number of coaches in Dublin in 2017 was 64 and it’s still 64. In the rest of Leinster in 2017 it was 72 and it’s now 118.

Indeed the model is great value for the GAA since they only actually pay half the cost, the clubs have to have skin the game so the GAA can get twice the benefit of what they put in through the commitment of their partners. So happy are the GAA that they’re actively using it elsewhere now

what I was trying to get across at the Leinster convention was that we need the coaching that is happening in Dublin to continue. And we need to expand that model to the rest of the country.

A real success story there

tritium

Enquiring wrote: »

Nothing new came from that article except the first high profile admittance that the funding disparity has made a mess of the football championship. It once again shows that the argument that the money was just for primary school kids or had no effect on the improvement in Dublin GAA across the board is absolute nonsense. Even the Leinster council chairman, someone who wants to defend the funding disparity, has confirmed the obvious.

So the Dublin coaching program didn't end in 2017. Where are you getting the impression it did? Instead of unbalanced funding in favour of Dublin, it's now unbalanced funding in favour of Dublin, Meath, Louth, Wicklow and Kildare. This is after almost 2 decades of Dublin only schemes.

Not the plan- once again pat directly contradicts you on the intention

we need the coaching that is happening in Dublin to continue. And we need to expand that model to the rest of the country.

On the plus side if they roll it out on stages well eventually figure out which county you support as soon as you stop complaining about that aspect

Enquiring

tritium wrote: »

Then there was this gem



To be fair you already rolled back from claiming 90 coaches so you were in fast retreat at this point.





Pat makes it nice and clear:



Indeed the model is great value for the GAA since they only actually pay half the cost, the clubs have to have skin the game so the GAA can get twice the benefit of what they put in through the commitment of their partners. So happy are the GAA that they’re actively using it elsewhere now



A real success story there

So you trawled through my posts and came back with posts that are factually correct. I'm not sure what the point of that is? Which part of the below post is incorrect?

I've already said that the clubs pay for half the wages of the coach in the Dublin only scheme. The rest is paid by taxpayers, the GAA and the Leinster council. This adds up to more than 30 million since 2002.

If Dublin have around 90 clubs and around 75 coaches, that is nearly one per club. Definitely nearly one per club for all the clubs in the top divisions.

Dublin are way overfunded and have access to far more coaches to anyone else. From 2015, Dublin only had 12% of the total of registered players aged 8-18.

I think you were stung badly by me catching you out fiddling the numbers but quoting factually correct posts from myself and trying to claim they're otherwise won't cut the mustard.

Like I've always said, every other county had between one and six while Dublin had almost one per club. Obviously, a few junior clubs never had access to a coach. You've tried to write off two decades of funding disparity but I've repeatedly stated that this can't be done. Teehan acknowledges that this funding has decimated the football championship. He accepts that the reason Dublin ladies and male footballers are dominating at the moment is because of the disproportionate funding Dublin received since 2002.

The mistake he's making is thinking that giving 4 other counties disproportionate funding will make everything ok. Obviously, that's nonsense. Especially when you look at what Dublin spend on games development funding now. Almost 4 million per year.

Enquiring

tritium wrote: »

Not the plan- once again pat directly contradicts you on the intention



On the plus side if they roll it out on stages well eventually figure out which county you support as soon as you stop complaining about that aspect

So the Dublin funding didn't finish in 2017 then? Another porkie exposed.

What did Teehan contradict me on? Do you know the difference between the present and future tense?

Again one of your posts is framed as some sort of expose. This is all common knowledge. You have revealed nothing new. None of it goes in any way against the argument to split Dublin. As has been pointed out to you repeatedly, 2 decades of funding disparity has left Dublin GAA in a position where they have resources far behind everyone else. That's why they must be split. They had their own special scheme and have benefitted in a major way off the back of it. The unjust scheme is irreversible.

Just to illustrate again that the disparity has not ended. Let's compare Dublin and Cork. Cork had 2,041 registered youth teams in 2019. Dublin had 2,049. Cork have a far bigger area to cover but only had 7 coaches to do this job, Dublin had 64.

Dickie10

I would imagine the GAA will just get some PR Company to package, South Dublin, Fingal and Dublin city GAA it would actually be a huge earner having three GAA teams in dublin, so when GAA realise that and its packaged that way it WILL happen, once money is involved.

tritium

Enquiring wrote: »

So you trawled through my posts and came back with posts that are factually correct. I'm not sure what the point of that is? Which part of the below post is incorrect?

I've already said that the clubs pay for half the wages of the coach in the Dublin only scheme. The rest is paid by taxpayers, the GAA and the Leinster council. This adds up to more than 30 million since 2002.

If Dublin have around 90 clubs and around 75 coaches, that is nearly one per club. Definitely nearly one per club for all the clubs in the top divisions.

Dublin are way overfunded and have access to far more coaches to anyone else. From 2015, Dublin only had 12% of the total of registered players aged 8-18.

I think you were stung badly by me catching you out fiddling the numbers but quoting factually correct posts from myself and trying to claim they're otherwise won't cut the mustard.

Like I've always said, every other county had between one and six while Dublin had almost one per club. Obviously, a few junior clubs never had access to a coach. You've tried to write off two decades of funding disparity but I've repeatedly stated that this can't be done. Teehan acknowledges that this funding has decimated the football championship. He accepts that the reason Dublin ladies and male footballers are dominating at the moment is because of the disproportionate funding Dublin received since 2002.

The mistake he's making is thinking that giving 4 other counties disproportionate funding will make everything ok. Obviously, that's nonsense. Especially when you look at what Dublin spend on games development funding now. Almost 4 million per year.

You do realise that 90, 75 and 64 are different numbers right?

You do get that 90 > 75 > 64 right?

You do realise that if I pay 50% of something that I’ve only paid for half of it right?

Cause you’re posts are getting more comical as your misrepresentations are exposed

Enquiring

tritium wrote: »

You do realise that 90, 75 and 64 are different numbers right?

You do get that 90 > 75 > 64 right?

You do realise that if I pay 50% of something that I’ve only paid for half of it right?

Cause you’re posts are getting more comical as your misrepresentations are exposed

This is desperate stuff. Do you know numbers can change from year to year? I know you want to limit this to a couple of years but I've told you, the disparity was for 2 decades. The number of coaches have changed throughout that time. Some clubs haven't had access to coaches every year.

You've yet again failed to answer any question put to you. After all your trawling you still can't come up with a coherent argument to justify the enormous over funding of Dublin. The Leinster Council chairman has faced up to the major issues caused by the funding disparity. Maybe time for you to do the same?

dobman88

Enquiring wrote: »

You've yet again failed to answer any question put to you.

In fairness, you can hardly accuse lads of this when you've failed to answer loads of very simple questions asked of yourself.

blanch152

tritium wrote: »

I take it you do agree with him so? For example that the revenue generated in dublin is necessary to address the issues with facilities? That the level of revenue they generate inevitably looks greater while they’re successful? That the structures dublin have developed give their players more games exposure that’s key to their development, and which is now being copied elsewhere with support from the Leinster council? That the rest of Leinster is receiving almost twice the funding per head of population that dublin is at present? That you can’t simply “means test” clubs? That funding is still needed for dublin?

That issue about playing structures gets lost.

Dublin organise their games properly, giving meaningful matches at juvenile level for all types encouraging them to stay with the game. It was the key thing needed to rival soccer.

These are simple things that other counties don’t bother with.

tritium

Enquiring wrote: »

This is desperate stuff. Do you know numbers can change from year to year? I know you want to limit this to a couple of years but I've told you, the disparity was for 2 decades. The number of coaches have changed throughout that time. Some clubs haven't had access to coaches every year.

You've yet again failed to answer any question put to you. After all your trawling you still can't come up with a coherent argument to justify the enormous over funding of Dublin. The Leinster Council chairman has faced up to the major issues caused by the funding disparity. Maybe time for you to do the same?

Ah here, you’re beginning to snort the fairy dust you’ve been trying to sell to the rest of us I think. Desperate stuff from you at this stage. Unfortunately you’ve been found out yet again since you’ve seen with numbers at various stages.

If you’d bothered to read the article you’d have seen that one of the the big takeaways (yes there’s more than one! Who knew!) is that Pat actually provides the reasons and justification for the project that you keep whinging on about. He does it so well that by the end Connellan, high priest of the anti dublin fanboys, is actually forced to agree that the project was the right thing to do

Enquiring

dobman88 wrote: »

In fairness, you can hardly accuse lads of this when you've failed to answer loads of very simple questions asked of yourself.

I've answered all relevant questions.

dobman88

Enquiring wrote: »

I've answered all relevant questions.

Lol

Enquiring

tritium wrote: »

Ah here, you’re beginning to snort the fairy dust you’ve been trying to sell to the rest of us I think. Desperate stuff from you at this stage. Unfortunately you’ve been found out yet again since you’ve seen with numbers at various stages.

If you’d bothered to read the article you’d have seen that one of the the big takeaways (yes there’s more than one! Who knew!) is that Pat actually provides the reasons and justification for the project that you keep whinging on about. He does it so well that by the end Connellan, high priest of the anti dublin fanboys, is actually forced to agree that the project was the right thing to do

You've been asked to point out any new information from the article. You have failed to do so. The only new information is the Leinster council chairman admitting that the funding is behind Dublin's success.

By the way, I have never said the funding should stop in our capital. It should continue within the 4 new counties along with every other county. Nothing Teehan said goes against the argument for the split, in fact, once again it reinforces why it has to happen.

The information I provided you from 2019 shows that the disparity between Dublin and a huge amount of counties continues. With more clubs, around the same number of youth teams and a far wider area to cover, Cork have fractions of the amount of coaches Dublin have. It's been like that for 2 decades. No wonder people like the Leinster council chairman have to admit it has decimated the championship.

RoyalCelt

Enquiring wrote: »

You've been asked to point out any new information from the article. You have failed to do so. The only new information is the Leinster council chairman admitting that the funding is behind Dublin's success.

By the way, I have never said the funding should stop in our capital. It should continue within the 4 new counties along with every other county. Nothing Teehan said goes against the argument for the split, in fact, once again it reinforces why it has to happen.

The information I provided you from 2019 shows that the disparity between Dublin and a huge amount of counties continues. With more clubs, around the same number of youth teams and a far wider area to cover, Cork have fractions of the amount of coaches Dublin have. It's been like that for 2 decades. No wonder people like the Leinster council chairman have to admit it has decimated the championship.

That was major progress. A Leinster Official admitting that money has led to more Dublin success and recognising it's not good for the association dublin strolling leinster every year. I wonder what they'll be thinking in 10 years time when Dublin have won 20 in a row.

tritium

RoyalCelt wrote: »

That was major progress. A Leinster Official admitting that money has led to more Dublin success and recognising it's not good for the association dublin strolling leinster every year. I wonder what they'll be thinking in 10 years time when Dublin have won 20 in a row.

But royalcelt, your county, as has been pointed out, has been receiving funding disproportionate to even dublins over the last few years. You’re part of the east Leinster project and so have hugely benefitted from your share of the 118 resources assigned to rest of Leinster (as opposed to 65 in dublin) - you’re actually part of the problem now according to enquiring. You also have significant population and infrastructure advantages compared to many counties.

I do wonder though, enquiring has claimed that dublins success was pretty much instantaneous ( actually faster than that ) what’s holding Meath back? I mean I know you’ll blame dublin in Leinster but you have the back door. If it was all about money shouldn’t Meath also be hovering around an ai final consistently now? Could there maybe be something else at play?

EICVD

tritium wrote: »

But royalcelt, your county, as has been pointed out, has been receiving funding disproportionate to even dublins over the last few years. You’re part of the east Leinster project and so have hugely benefitted from your share of the 118 resources assigned to rest of Leinster (as opposed to 65 in dublin) - you’re actually part of the problem now according to enquiring. You also have significant population and infrastructure advantages compared to many counties.

I do wonder though, enquiring has claimed that dublins success was pretty much instantaneous ( actually faster than that ) what’s holding Meath back? I mean I know you’ll blame dublin in Leinster but you have the back door. If it was all about money shouldn’t Meath also be hovering around an ai final consistently? Could there maybe be something else at play?

Don’t you know it’s because kids in Meath are afraid to play Senior inter county because Dublin will hammer them. All the underage success Meath have over Dublin lately but them poor boys do be traumatised at what happens at Senior level, that’s the excuse anyway

Enquiring

tritium wrote: »

But royalcelt, your county, as has been pointed out, has been receiving funding disproportionate to even dublins over the last few years. You’re part of the east Leinster project and so have hugely benefitted from your share of the 118 resources assigned to rest of Leinster (as opposed to 65 in dublin) - you’re actually part of the problem now according to enquiring. You also have significant population and infrastructure advantages compared to many counties.

I do wonder though, enquiring has claimed that dublins success was pretty much instantaneous ( actually faster than that ) what’s holding Meath back? I mean I know you’ll blame dublin in Leinster but you have the back door. If it was all about money shouldn’t Meath also be hovering around an ai final consistently now? Could there maybe be something else at play?

Do you have an issue with counties having access to more coaches and other advantages all of a sudden? You don't seem to have a problem with Dublin having it for almost 2 decades.

And that's the key here. If Meath or any other county had their own special scheme planned and funded for them for nearly 2 decades, the same calls would be happening as with Dublin.

As it is, there is no justification for the coaching scheme to be limited to a certain area of the country. I'm sure not many from Meath or the other counties apart from Dublin would even attempt to justify the funding disparity.

By the way, you might need to check up on your facts yet again. The funding for Dublin first dramatically improved results at underage level and that brought unprecedented levels of success across all grades and codes. You may have noticed some upturn in results for those involved in the east Leinster project, Meath winning a Leinster minor title, Kildare an All Ireland u20, Wicklow beating Dublin at minor level for example.

Now imagine if it was only one of those counties who had access to far more coaches than every other county since 2002. Let's say Meath as it's the county being discussed. They had far more coaches which led to increased success. They increased sponsorship to a level above 2 million per year, they were spending over 2 million on salaries, 2 million on expenses, 1.5 million per year on team preparations, now spending close to 4 million per year on games development and they were beating every Leinster county including Dublin by cricket scores, would you have an issue with this?

ooter

With the advantages meath have (population, location, funding, coaches) I would expect them to be reaching an all ireland final in the next year or 2.

tritium

ooter wrote: »

With the advantages meath have (population, location, funding, coaches) I would expect them to be reaching an all ireland final in the next year or 2.

Yes certainly, it’s the logical conclusion of enquirings argument. If it’s doesn’t happen, and indeed if we don’t see all Leinster ai finals for the foreseeable future after that it effectively debunks the argument

Enquiring

tritium wrote: »

Yes certainly, it’s the logical conclusion of enquirings argument. If it’s doesn’t happen, and indeed if we don’t see all Leinster ai finals for the foreseeable future after that it effectively debunks the argument

Did you miss the post with a few questions posed to you?

It took Dublin 9 years post funding disparity to reach an All Ireland football final. Dublin's hurlers took 9 years post funding to win a Leinster title. This was when only Dublin had access to the huge level of funding and everyone else were given pittance.

And yet again because you can't form any argument to counter the facts presented to you, you're forced to invent an argument I've made and try to discuss that. The funding disparity of Dublin and the resulting financial gains leaving Dublin GAA with enormous resources are the reasons for the split, the success gained off the back of this was inevitable but not the reason for the split.

ooter

The increased funding for dublin began in 2007 and they were reaching all ireland semi finals/finals 3/4 years lately.
I would expect similar from meath in the next year or 2.