The Dominance of Dublin GAA *Mod warning post#1*

MayoAreMagic

salmocab wrote: »

Yeah they are both in county Dublin. County being the important word there.
Probably hold off on the fundraising for now as this isn’t actually going to happen. It’s just people making noise over and over like anything said here would matter anywhere.
Connacht Center of excellence in Connacht doesn’t strengthen your argument by the way.

Of course it does. The centre is in mayo. But it is no more mayos than galways etc. Croke park would not belong to north dublin either. It is just a pragmatic use of resources. South dublin would not be playing away from home in those games either, whereas everyone else has to do so when they face dublin at present. What is your solution to that? Build an 80 thousand seater in every county?
Since the belief is that nobody from dublin would support these teams anyway, then really and truely, they should row in with what everyone else in leinster has done and just give up home games, right?
Yours is just another disingenuous response, in a long list of disingenuous responses. The 2 dublin teams could easily use cp as their home ground with no issue in the world.

RoyalCelt

Hawkeye9212 wrote: »

4 of these contenders will be Dublin teams so we could end up with all-Dublin finals. That would definitely kill the intercounty game.

Sorry I meant to type I don't agree with splitting Dublin in 4. It's a ridiculous suggestion. Split into North and South should be the only consideration and I don't believe it should happen until after Dublin have broken the records such as a 10 in a row and the most wins beating kerrys 37.

MayoAreMagic

RoyalCelt wrote: »

Sorry I meant to type I don't agree with splitting Dublin in 4. It's a ridiculous suggestion. Split into North and South should be the only consideration and I don't believe it should happen until after Dublin have broken the records such as a 10 in a row and the most wins beating kerrys 37.

Why though? I dont think you have to wait to see them break every record. It is clear that it aready needs attention. Also, relying on something like that is foolish. For example, say if dublin were on the wrong end of a cormac reilly-esque bad reffing performance and thet happened to lose a game one year. The record might stay intact but that wouldnt reflect the reality of the situation.

salmocab

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Of course it does. The centre is in mayo. But it is no more mayos than galways etc. Croke park would not belong to north dublin either. It is just a pragmatic use of resources. South dublin would not be playing away from home in those games either, whereas everyone else has to do so when they face dublin at present. What is your solution to that? Build an 80 thousand seater in every county?
Since the belief is that nobody from dublin would support these teams anyway, then really and truely, they should row in with what everyone else in leinster has done and just give up home games, right?
Yours is just another disingenuous response, in a long list of disingenuous responses. The 2 dublin teams could easily use cp as their home ground with no issue in the world.

Oh it’s definitely disingenuous just like practically every post on this thread. People are picking up bits that suit their arguments and completely disregarding what doesn’t.
Dublin won’t be split this is all just an online chat where people get to vent whatever they want. Dublin being split would be an enormous move by the GAA and the end of inter county football. Attendances and money would crash. Something certainly needs to be done but not what a lot of people are looking for, it needs a long term plan not people shouting for the thing that would drag it all down.

tritium

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

They are both in county Dublin though, and it wouldnt be an official home ground of north dublin either, nor is it for dublin at present for that matter. It is just handy for dublin, as it would be handy for both Dublin teams.
I dont see that as any issue at all. The connacht centre of excellence is in mayo, it doesnt mean it is any less the connacht centre of excellence.

But if that doesnt suit, by all means get fundraising and build one.

Connacht centre of excellence in Mayo = no problem at all

Croke park in Dublin = outrage, scandal, something must be done, dubs get everything etc,.

The mind boggles sometimes...

gaffer91

RoyalCelt wrote: »

Sorry I meant to type I don't agree with splitting Dublin in 4. It's a ridiculous suggestion. Split into North and South should be the only consideration and I don't believe it should happen until after Dublin have broken the records such as a 10 in a row and the most wins beating kerrys 37.

It's not a ridiculous suggestion at all. There's no point in waiting for Dublin to 10 in a row or 15 out of 16 All- Ireland's- people's interest will go long before then and the game will be irreparably damaged. And we're already on that trajectory currently.

Dublin's population is such a statistical outlier that it was grounds alone for a split, although population alone is probably only enough for a two way split. But combine the impact of the financial doping with the population, plus the other unfair advantages Dublin have, and it becomes obvious that a four way split is preferable. There are currently no moves afoot to equalise the funding and end the financial doping that Dublin are engaged in. And the residual impact of the funding of the last 15 years will be felt for years and years to come.

So a two way split would be insufficient as the Dublin subdivisions would still be excessively unfairly advantaged (which says a lot for just how bad the current state of affairs is, when all the advantages are concentrated into a single team). So Dublin should be split into four teams to save the inter-county game and help every county from Leitrim to Dublin in the process.

tritium

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Of course it does. The centre is in mayo. But it is no more mayos than galways etc. Croke park would not belong to north dublin either. It is just a pragmatic use of resources. South dublin would not be playing away from home in those games either, whereas everyone else has to do so when they face dublin at present. What is your solution to that? Build an 80 thousand seater in every county?

Pragmatic use of resources- I wonder do the Leinster counties who repeatedly decide to play in Croker have a similar view maybe?

Since the belief is that nobody from dublin would support these teams anyway, then really and truely, they should row in with what everyone else in leinster has done and just give up home games, right?
Yours is just another disingenuous response, in a long list of disingenuous responses. The 2 dublin teams could easily use cp as their home ground with no issue in the world.

One dublin team using croker all the time is a scandal and a huge advantage to dublin but two dublin teams using it is just hunky dory? Jesus we really are in the twilight zone at this stage. The whole anti dub thing is a parody of itself at this point

gaffer91

salmocab wrote: »

Dublin being split would be an enormous move by the GAA and the end of inter county football. Attendances and money would crash. Something certainly needs to be done but not what a lot of people are looking for, it needs a long term plan not people shouting for the thing that would drag it all down.

It would be an enormous move but it wouldn't be the end of inter-county football and it definitely wouldn't cause attendances or money to crash.

Not splitting Dublin is actually what will have those effects- people are rapidly losing interest in the game as can be evidenced by declining attendances and viewership.

Dublin's dominance is built on unfair advantages and will now continue indefinitely. That is what is driving this dwindling interest.

There are other changes that can be made to the GAA but splitting Dublin is the most important reform.

The Lost Sheep

gaffer91 wrote: »

It would be an enormous move but it wouldn't be the end of inter-county football and it definitely wouldn't cause attendances or money to crash.

Not splitting Dublin is actually what will have those effects- people are rapidly losing interest in the game as can be evidenced by declining attendances and viewership.

Dublin's dominance is built on unfair advantages and will now continue indefinitely. That is what is driving this dwindling interest.

There are other changes that can be made to the GAA but splitting Dublin is the most important reform.

but splitting Dublin doesnt actually make leinster counties improve from the general mediocrity that has been leinster teams beyond Dublin for the last few years. Dublin dominance isnt based on unfair advantages when most of these so called unfair advantages existed when Dublin couldnt get near winning an all Ireland.

gaffer91

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

but splitting Dublin doesnt actually make leinster counties improve from the general mediocrity that has been leinster teams beyond Dublin for the last few years. Dublin dominance isnt based on unfair advantages when most of these so called unfair advantages existed when Dublin couldnt get near winning an all Ireland.

Splitting Dublin helps everyone. It's the single best step that can be taken to ensure Gaelic Games remain alive, interesting and viable at inter- county level. No-one will care about the All-Ireland championship as this dominance continues (well, maybe there'll be 200 Dubs going to games in their home stadium in 2030 claiming the dominance is fair, cyclical and that every other team just needs to pull their socks up).

Just because some team didn't historically take full benefit of unfair advantages doesn't mean they weren't or aren't unfair. The financial doping only started in earnest in the mid 2000s anyway. And the population is larger in relative and absolute numbers than many counties compared to what it was historically.

The Lost Sheep

gaffer91 wrote: »

Splitting Dublin helps everyone. It's the single best step that can be taken to ensure Gaelic Games remain alive, interesting and viable at inter- county level. No-one will care about the All-Ireland championship as this dominance continues (well, maybe there'll be 200 Dubs going to games in their home stadium in 2030 claiming the dominance is fair, cyclical and that every other team just needs to pull their socks up).

Just because some team didn't historically take full benefit of unfair advantages doesn't mean they weren't or aren't unfair. The financial doping only started in earnest in the mid 2000s anyway. And the population is larger in relative and absolute numbers than many counties compared to what it was historically.

Dublin being split doesnt help every team. It helps the dubs closest rivals. Two Dublin sides will still beat a lot of the leinster counties and will stop badly affect other counties chances of making the super 8s. How does that help most counties?

tritium

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Why though? I dont think you have to wait to see them break every record. It is clear that it aready needs attention. Also, relying on something like that is foolish. For example, say if dublin were on the wrong end of a cormac reilly-esque bad reffing performance and thet happened to lose a game one year. The record might stay intact but that wouldnt reflect the reality of the situation.

Surely by that argument Kerry should have been split before Darby scored his famous goal. Looking at the record book post that we have exactly the apocalyptic scenario you describe except the four horsemen were wearing green and gold rather than blue (oh and the world didn’t end)

gaffer91

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Dublin being split doesnt help every team. It helps the dubs closest rivals. Two Dublin sides will still beat a lot of the leinster counties and will stop badly affect other counties chances of making the super 8s. How does that help most counties?

Because not splitting them would be much worse?? Dublin will keep winning indefinitely without splitting them. That wouldn't be the case with any of the (ideally four) Dublin subdivisions.

No player or supporter will care in a few years about reaching the Super 8s (which probably won't even exist then) as it will be increasingly clear that the end result of yet another championship will be a victory by a team with seven times their population and multiples of their funding.

You need to realise that it is keeping the status quo that will result in the death of the inter-county game. Not splitting Dublin- that will enhance the game, massively.

gaffer91

tritium wrote: »

Surely by that argument Kerry should have been split before Darby scored his famous goal. Looking at the record book post that we have exactly the apocalyptic scenario you describe except the four horsemen were wearing green and gold rather than blue (oh and the world didn’t end)

Once again- it'd not just the end results that are important. It's the inputs into the results that are equally important- in Dublin's case this includes a combination of unfair advantages such as population, funding advantage and playing at home, among others. This combination is unique and exclusive to Dublin.

The Lost Sheep

gaffer91 wrote: »

Because not splitting them would be much worse?? Dublin will keep winning indefinitely without splitting them. That wouldn't be the case with any of the (ideally four) Dublin subdivisions.

No player or supporter will care in a few years about reaching the Super 8s (which probably won't even exist then) as it will be increasingly clear that the end result of yet another championship will be a victory by a team with seven times their population and multiples of their funding.

You need to realise that it is keeping the status quo that will result in the death of the inter-county game. Not splitting Dublin- that will enhance the game, massively.

Splitting Dublin will not make any counties any better. Should funding to many other counties increase. Of course but when Dublin has such a significant proportion of population they will get such a significant proportion of development funding.
And splitting into 4 straight away Is just to aid your own county and nothing else.

tritium

gaffer91 wrote: »

It's not a ridiculous suggestion at all. There's no point in waiting for Dublin to 10 in a row or 15 out of 16 All- Ireland's- people's interest will go long before then and the game will be irreparably damaged. And we're already on that trajectory currently.

Dublin's population is such a statistical outlier that it was grounds alone for a split, although population alone is probably only enough for a two way split. But combine the impact of the financial doping with the population, plus the other unfair advantages Dublin have, and it becomes obvious that a four way split is preferable. There are currently no moves afoot to equalise the funding and end the financial doping that Dublin are engaged in. And the residual impact of the funding of the last 15 years will be felt for years and years to come.

So a two way split would be insufficient as the Dublin subdivisions would still be excessively unfairly advantaged (which says a lot for just how bad the current state of affairs is, when all the advantages are concentrated into a single team). So Dublin should be split into four teams to save the inter-county game and help every county from Leitrim to Dublin in the process.

Yawn, come back to me when dublin look like getting 10 in a row. Right now they’ve only marginally exceeded what other teams have already achieved (granted one of those historical teams had significant advantages handed to them)

tritium

gaffer91 wrote: »

Once again- it'd not just the end results that are important. It's the inputs into the results that are equally important- in Dublin's case this includes a combination of unfair advantages such as population, funding advantage and playing at home, among others. This combination is unique and exclusive to Dublin.

You keep saying this

You keep ignoring the century plus of administrative and financial doping that your own county has and continues to benefit from

Call me cynical but I struggle with the ahem purity of your argument

gaffer91

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Splitting Dublin will not make any counties any better. Should funding to many other counties increase. Of course but when Dublin has such a significant proportion of population they will get such a significant proportion of development funding.
And splitting into 4 straight away Is just to aid your own county and nothing else.

It will help the competition survive- how can you not understand this? No-one will give a **** in 5 years as Dublin stroll to yet another All-Ireland.

The population is an unfair advantage too- not a reason for more funding.

And once again, as has been repeatedly pointed out: the funding for Dublin is disproportionate on whatever basis you want to use - per head of population, per registered player etc. This discrepancy is even worse when sponsorship funds are factored in.

This has been repeatedly explained, not just in general, but to you personally. Actually try to retain this simple information this time.

Splitting Dublin is to aid everyone, not to help any particular county.

gaffer91

tritium wrote: »

Yawn, come back to me when dublin look like getting 10 in a row. Right now they’ve only marginally exceeded what other teams have already achieved (granted one of those historical teams had significant advantages handed to them)

Hi Tritium- coming back as requested. Dublin look like getting 10 in a row. They've won 6 of the last 7 All-Irelands, have an endless conveyor belt of excellent new players to replace the old guard and have massive population, funding and home pitch advantages.

gaffer91

tritium wrote: »

You keep saying this

You keep ignoring the century plus of administrative and financial doping that your own county has and continues to benefit from

Call me cynical but I struggle with the ahem purity of your argument

Why does it matter who makes the argument? It stands on its own merits. Imagine I'm from Leitrim if that helps you to actually deal with things.

Any advantages any other county may or may not enjoy pale in comparison with the nature, duration, scale and combination of advantages Dublin enjoy.

The Lost Sheep

gaffer91 wrote: »

It will help the competition survive- how can you not understand this? No-one will give a **** in 5 years as Dublin stroll to yet another All-Ireland.

The population is an unfair advantage too- not a reason for more funding.

And once again, as has been repeatedly pointed out: the funding for Dublin is disproportionate on whatever basis you want to use - per head of population, per registered player etc. This discrepancy is even worse when sponsorship funds are factored in.

This has been repeatedly explained, not just in general, but to you personally. Actually try to retain this simple information this time.

Splitting Dublin is to aid everyone, not to help any particular county.

Dublin has always had more people, got more funding. Splitting Dublin would mean even more funding going their way as new processes and everything else would have to be created and developed. So it would just see more money going to Dublin and less going to everyone else as there would be 3 more sides to fund.

The sides with biggest populations should be getting most in development funding. Because theyve more people to work with. How can you not grasp that?
Splitting Dublin doesnt benefit everyone as a split Dublin would still beat many of the weakest counties and would stop some counties frin reaching latter rounds of championship they otherwise would

gaffer91

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Dublin has always had more people, got more funding. Splitting Dublin would mean even more funding going their way as new processes and everything else would have to be created and developed. So it would just see more money going to Dublin and less going to everyone else as there would be 3 more sides to fund.

The sides with biggest populations should be getting most in development funding. Because theyve more people to work with. How can you not grasp that?
Splitting Dublin doesnt benefit everyone as a split Dublin would still beat many of the weakest counties and would stop some counties frin reaching latter rounds of championship they otherwise would

You clearly have difficulty understanding several points so I will just do one at a time to try and help you understand.

The funding Dublin gets, both from the GAA and from their sponsors, and from the government, is disproportionate compared to other counties even when their population and/or registered playing numbers are factored in. This means that Dublin are getting substantially more per registered player/ per head of population than every other county. Can you understand this simple information?

You're just regurgitating the same garbage over and over- try to actually tackle the points people raise.

The Lost Sheep

gaffer91 wrote: »

You clearly have difficulty understanding several points so I will just do one at a time to try and help you understand.

The funding Dublin gets, both from the GAA and from their sponsors, and from the government, is disproportionate compared to other counties even when their population and/or registered playing numbers are factored in. This means that Dublin are getting substantially more per registered player/ per head of population than every other county. Can you understand this simple information?

You're just regurgitating the same garbage over and over- try to actually tackle the points people raise.

drop the insults.
Dublin do get more in sponsorship. They would anyway. Sponsors look for exposure and a successful side and side based in biggest population base will always get more in sponsorship than the rest
Look in the mirror about regurgitating garbage as all you seem to post about is alleged bias towards Dublin about funding

gaffer91

@The Lost Sheep here's a very simple puzzle to help you with this.

County A has 100 people and 10 GAA players.
County B has 200 people and 20 GAA players.

Do you think it would be fair to give County B twice the amount of funding as County A, or 30 times as much? Because your current argument is that both options are equally fair

gaffer91

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

drop the insults.
Dublin do get more in sponsorship. They would anyway. Sponsors look for exposure and a successful side and side based in biggest population base will always get more in sponsorship than the rest
Look in the mirror about regurgitating garbage as all you seem to post about is alleged bias towards Dublin about funding

I don't accept it was an insult. You do indeed keep posting the same tripe over and over, no matter how many times it has been rebutted.

So your argument now seems to have moved from "Dublin get more, but they have a bigger population so it's fair" to "Dublin get much more but it doesn't matter". That's an interesting transition.

There's no reason sponsorship money, from all counties, couldn't be centrally pooled and shared amongst all counties.

The Lost Sheep

gaffer91 wrote: »

I don't accept it was an insult. You do indeed keep posting the same tripe over and over, no matter how many times it has been rebutted.

So your argument now seems to have moved from "Dublin get more, but they have a bigger population so it's fair" to "Dublin get much more but it doesn't matter". That's an interesting transition.

There's no reason sponsorship money, from all counties, couldn't be centrally pooled and shared amongst all counties.

so a lot of counties get more than their share while quite a few as a result got lot less. If it was professional sport with salary and spending cap then yes but it isnt.
And quit putting words in my mouth and everyone else to try get things to suit your twisted agenda against Dublin.

tritium

gaffer91 wrote: »

Hi Tritium- coming back as requested. Dublin look like getting 10 in a row. They've won 6 of the last 7 All-Irelands, have an endless conveyor belt of excellent new players to replace the old guard and have massive population, funding and home pitch advantages.

So they’re right now about at the level your own counties best team has achieved

Sky didn’t fall in then,not about to fall in now

MayoAreMagic

tritium wrote: »

Pragmatic use of resources- I wonder do the Leinster counties who repeatedly decide to play in Croker have a similar view maybe?



One dublin team using croker all the time is a scandal and a huge advantage to dublin but two dublin teams using it is just hunky dory? Jesus we really are in the twilight zone at this stage. The whole anti dub thing is a parody of itself at this point

Yes actually that is exactly what they see it as Id imagine. Why else would they do it?

Re it being hunky dory, well it isnt, but, again, being pragmatic about it, if one dublin team can use it then the other team could use it in the same fashion. By all means, go and build 2 new stadia if this is what you feel needs to be done. I dont think it would be an immediate requirment personally, but if you do, by all means get out and get fundraising

MayoAreMagic

tritium wrote: »

Surely by that argument Kerry should have been split before Darby scored his famous goal. Looking at the record book post that we have exactly the apocalyptic scenario you describe except the four horsemen were wearing green and gold rather than blue (oh and the world didn’t end)

No kerry at no point in history should have been split. They are in fact the example that should be rolled out across every organisation. What they have achieved from the numbers they have is exemplary. If some9ne cannot understand the differences between the resources at play there, then this discussion may be going over their heads

MayoAreMagic

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

so a lot of counties get more than their share while quite a few as a result got lot less. If it was professional sport with salary and spending cap then yes but it isnt.
And quit putting words in my mouth and everyone else to try get things to suit your twisted agenda against Dublin.

But it isnt their share.
Hence the use of the word - disproportionate. If it was their share it would be proportionate. This is the opposite of that - disproportionate.

Also, if you think that dublin are simply getting back the money they generate for the gaa, you are wrong there too. Id you analyse the attendance figures you see that they are in fact getting sizeably more of a percentage than that they generate, which means that, basically the rest of the gaa world is footing the bill for the financial doping of a competitor. That is a ludicrous situation