The Dominance of Dublin GAA *Mod warning post#1*

spurshero

SilverFox2 wrote: »

Dublin could fill Croker twice over.
having 2 teams would have more going to games and the GAA would have extra income from
gate receipts and 2 sponsorships deals for more money possibly.

They don’t fill it for any game bar the final and some semi finals depending on who there playing . There Leinster finals last few years are life morgues

salmocab

SilverFox2 wrote: »

Dublin could fill Croker twice over.
having 2 teams would have more going to games and the GAA would have extra income from
gate receipts and 2 sponsorships deals for more money possibly.

No there would be less people going as interest would immediately fall and sponsors would also lose interest.

SilverFox2

salmocab wrote: »

No there would be less people going as interest would immediately fall and sponsors would also lose interest.

Once could say the same of Madrid, with Real and Athletico, or the Milans.
If teams are winning or dominant they will be supported

salmocab

SilverFox2 wrote: »

Once could say the same of Madrid, with Real and Athletico, or the Milans.
If teams are winning or dominant they will be supported

County’s aren’t the same thing as professional clubs. Even if it happened it would take years to get the buy in from supporters to the point where the money was back to where it is, all that time the second team would need funding with a smaller pot to fund it so even less for everyone else. This splitting nonsense isn’t thought out it’s just people saying things to be heard.

The_Honeybadger

Just to be clear, when I brought up the draft system I was not saying it would work in the GAA. It can only work in professional sports.

One possible solution is to make the league the main summer competition and really get behind it from a marketing perspective. It’s our best and fairest competition imo, and it is easy to follow.

Smaller counties have no chance in the current championship and they never will. Give them a system and incentives to amalgamate for the championship and overlap the competition with the league. The difficulty with this is that supporters may not identify with an amalgamated team.

If the players and supporters don’t buy in it can’t work obviously, but it is potentially one way where the very best players from smaller counties can get a genuine shot at an All Ireland. If they don’t want that then I don’t know what else can be done, you’ll never improve the Division 3-4 counties enough to compete at the top regardless of how much money you pump in.

RedDevil55

kilns wrote: »

People are never going agree on here, this is an internet forum after all and people can say things without backing them up.

I understands some posters grumblings, nobody likes anyone who wins all the time except if its your team however splitting Dublin or totally cutting their funding and giving it to counties who have proven they couldnt run a sale out of their own car boot is not a solution. A whole overhaul is required, splitting Dublin and cutting their funding will not bring counties like Longford, Offaly, Sligo etc any closer to winning an All Ireland. We need to be looking at solutions how that can be brought about and see how people from counties like this can look at each season and say we have a chance.

Your thoughts on this wider problem are most welcome

I don't want to see Dublin split personally and nobody said cut their funding totally, why the need for hyperbole? This stuff about we can't give funding to other counties as they'll waste it is rubbish. All games development funding is spent on coaches. A lot of counties get 2 with their funding, Dublin get 50+ with theirs. Would anyone have a problem with levelling out the massive differences that exist?

Overtime that will bring up the standards in weaker counties.

SilverFox2

RedDevil55 wrote: »

I don't want to see Dublin split personally and nobody said cut their funding totally, why the need for hyperbole? This stuff about we can't give funding to other counties as they'll waste it is rubbish. All games development funding is spent on coaches. A lot of counties get 2 with their funding, Dublin get 50+ with theirs. Would anyone have a problem with levelling out the massive differences that exist?

Overtime that will bring up the standards in weaker counties.

HQ should decouple the local income from the county with that shared with that county.
Give the weaker counties a higher portion for training. This over time will benefit he standards of football in all counties

mcgragger

Putting expert coaches into Longford Kilkenny and Leitrim etc is not going to deliver an all Ireland football title ever.
There isnt the players. They are just not there. It might raise the level a bit but they will never be able to compete with the bigger counties.

Unless we make a rule forcing people to move to those counties!

RedDevil55

mcgragger wrote: »

Putting expert coaches into Longford Kilkenny and Leitrim etc is not going to deliver an all Ireland football title ever.
There isnt the players. They are just not there. It might raise the level a bit but they will never be able to compete with the bigger counties.

Unless we make a rule forcing people to move to those counties!

So because Leitrim, Longford and Kilkenny (don't even have a football team ffs) will never win Sam we leave everything the way it is now?

mcgragger

RedDevil55 wrote: »

So because Leitrim, Longford and Kilkenny (don't even have a football team ffs) will never win Sam we leave everything the way it is now?

Did I say leave it the way it is ?? Nope!

My point is there is no point in preaching equality in funding where there is no point - KK being a great example as they have no interest in a football team. Thanks for being observant.

There has to be some structured thoughts put into the way to fix the competition.

Spreading funding equally is not going to work.
Splitting Dublin is the end of the All Ireland. It would probably see the 2 Dublin sides meeting each other anyway given the current strength in depth.
The reality is what people are asking for is for Dublin to be Handicapped.
They have the population to develop players. The rest of the country will never have that amount of people to pull and develop players from that is just the fact.

Funding the Corks and the Mayos and Kerrys and the Galways etc more to get more coaches, whatever it will be, may get those counties to Dublin Level. Maybe.
So is that the end of those sides arguing about funding cos they are winning or might win again?

What about the rest of the counties?
How do you go about making the competition some way a level playing field?
its more than a funding issue.

mcgragger

jmayo wrote: »

Yeah because the trip from Dublin to Ballina is so much shorter than that to Castlebar. :rolleyes:
A lot of the Mayo panel live outside the county so dividing it would have fook all difference on distance to training.

But I am guessing you know that anyway.

The intercounty game is facing huge issues.
Even if you take out the huge fooking elephant in the room that is Dublin football, then there are other issues where now it costs so much in money and time to run a somewhat competitive intercounty team.

Look how many staff are now tied to intercounty teams.
Gone are the days of a doctor and a physio for match days.
Now you have strength and fitness, physios, dieticians and then you have the others like performance analysis, statistician, media manager, yoga trainers, camerman, goalie coach, forwards coach, backs coach, administrators.

The All Ireland winning teams of Dublin and Tipperary I think had 23 member backroom teams.

Now granted they are not all paid, but by damn they will all be on varying degrees of expenses.

And then most importantly you have the time and effort that players now need to put in to compete at highest level.

It is much easier for Dublin as they almost all to a man live and work in Dublin.
And they are winning and they get the rewards that come with that.

And one can understand how the likes of Kerry, Mayo and a couple of other teams can entice players to put in the efforts as they win provincials and get big days in Croker.

But why the feck would someone in Wicklow, Carlow, Leitrim, Waterford, Fermanagh, Antrim, etc bother putting their lives on hold for the odd win in any given year.
And this is very noticable how players can't be bothered waiting for backdoor matches.

Top GAA players are now basically semi pros, without the paypacket.

Sense!
The game is approaching if not already at a tipping point. It needs to go Pro but that goes against the ethos of the Association.

jmayo

salmocab wrote: »

... What I will say is I doubt supporters of any other sport would be looking for ways to make the best weaker instead of the rest better.

Ehh motorsport often does, but the bigger teams almost always still come out on top.

Horse racing has handicap weights.

SilverFox2 wrote: »

Maybe some key Dublin players should join Mayo to level the playing field in the GAA?

Nah better idea to scupper Dublin is to give them the county board.

Lets see how long that 1.6 million, or is it 1.9 million would last.

It would be 1.6 mill once the lads got their hands on it anyways.

Feck it I have solved the whole problem, no need for splits or anything.
Oh and all we ask is to have Gavin in return.

The Lost Sheep

SilverFox2 wrote: »

Once could say the same of Madrid, with Real and Athletico, or the Milans.
If teams are winning or dominant they will be supported

it isnt anywhere near the same. It isnt inter county competition if you are splitting counties just to stop one wide from dominating. Real and athletico are just two strongest clubs within Madrid. Plenty other clubs in Madrid within same league ladder systen

salmocab wrote: »

County’s aren’t the same thing as professional clubs. Even if it happened it would take years to get the buy in from supporters to the point where the money was back to where it is, all that time the second team would need funding with a smaller pot to fund it so even less for everyone else. This splitting nonsense isn’t thought out it’s just people saying things to be heard.

yeah years and years if it would ever get back to anywhere near where buy in as it is now.

The_Honeybadger wrote: »

Just to be clear, when I brought up the draft system I was not saying it would work in the GAA. It can only work in professional sports.

One possible solution is to make the league the main summer competition and really get behind it from a marketing perspective. It’s our best and fairest competition imo, and it is easy to follow.

Smaller counties have no chance in the current championship and they never will. Give them a system and incentives to amalgamate for the championship and overlap the competition with the league. The difficulty with this is that supporters may not identify with an amalgamated team.

If the players and supporters don’t buy in it can’t work obviously, but it is potentially one way where the very best players from smaller counties can get a genuine shot at an All Ireland. If they don’t want that then I don’t know what else can be done, you’ll never improve the Division 3-4 counties enough to compete at the top regardless of how much money you pump in.

its not that the league should be the main summer competition but that the league shouldn't be played to completion before all Ireland starts. There should be integration of the inter county competitions like in soccer/rugby/most other sports where teams compete on multiple fronts through the season.

salmocab

jmayo wrote: »

Ehh motorsport often does, but the bigger teams almost always still come out on top.

Horse racing has handicap weights.
.

There is a difference between these things and just making one team/outfit worse. The plan should be to make others better. Handicapping in horse racing is for lower levels and really it’s only make betting harder. Sports try to make everyone better not drag the best back to the pack. Dublin aren’t much better than Kerry who aren’t much better than mayo and Tyrone and it goes on the differences are actually quite small and some of the right investment will see others pick up but with the changes in how we live small counties are even less likely to make a breakthrough than in the past as people move to larger conurbations.

MayoAreMagic

Hawkeye9212 wrote: »

South Dublin doesn't have a stadium capable of holding intercounty games. Also, you're not a psychic. I'm not a Dub.

They can play in croke park.
Or, they can just build one like everyone else has to...

salmocab

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

They can play in croke park.
Or, they can just build one like everyone else has to...

So your solution means a county never having a home game? I presume you’ve never complained about Dublin playing too many games at home so, as that would be hypocritical? Or spend millions on some of the most expensive real estate in the country and more on building a stadium, where do you envisage that money coming from?

MayoAreMagic

salmocab wrote: »

So your solution means a county never having a home game? I presume you’ve never complained about Dublin playing too many games at home so, as that would be hypocritical? Or spend millions on some of the most expensive real estate in the country and more on building a stadium, where do you envisage that money coming from?

But cp would be a home game....
Re spend millions, again everyone else had to do it. I dont see the problem. Every coubty faces issues be it travel to games and training or whatever else.
However, Im sure they could cut a deal with cp to play home games.
I do think they should play less games in cp as it stands, and maybe make efforts to balance the support for games that are meant to be neutral. The two arent both possible to implement together though, without any real issue.

Dots1982

No, Croke Park would not be a home game for SouthDublin. And since many are talking about a Dublin split in 3 then you would have to build 2 stadiums.

If anyone is looking to the right and fair solution this would be clear. But if you’re main aim is to punish Dublin then you would think it’s grand to just split Dublin and be damned.

salmocab

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

But cp would be a home game....
Re spend millions, again everyone else had to do it. I dont see the problem. Every coubty faces issues be it travel to games and training or whatever else.
However, Im sure they could cut a deal with cp to play home games.
I do think they should play less games in cp as it stands, and maybe make efforts to balance the support for games that are meant to be neutral. The two arent both possible to implement together though, without any real issue.

Firstly Croke park is not in south Dublin so not a home game.
Secondly what your talking about is overnight starting a new county which would need structures and infrastructure in place you can’t compare that to counties who have had a very long time to develop these things as the game developed.

Bonniedog

Dublin is going down the tubes anyway,

Can we not hold on to one of the few good things we have in the mean time :-)

MayoAreMagic

Dots1982 wrote: »

No, Croke Park would not be a home game for SouthDublin. And since many are talking about a Dublin split in 3 then you would have to build 2 stadiums.

If anyone is looking to the right and fair solution this would be clear. But if you’re main aim is to punish Dublin then you would think it’s grand to just split Dublin and be damned.

It is very close to south dublin - much closer than it would be for all but one of their opponents... milans 2 teams share the san siro. It is a common enough thing. Its not ideal but it would work perfectly well. Either that or pay for their own stadium, like everyone else. Nothing unreasonable about that, it is simply what needs to be done. When you consider what everyone else has to do, it is actually a pretty soft deal dublin would be getting...

Your mistake is judging the change in terms of the ridiculous terms dublin have at present, rather than the situation everyone else faces into at present.

salmocab

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

It is very close to south dublin - much closer than it would be for all but one of their opponents... milans 2 teams share the san siro. It is a common enough thing. Its not ideal but it would work perfectly well. Either that or pay for their own stadium, like everyone else. Nothing unreasonable about that, it is simply what needs to be done. When you consider what everyone else has to do, it is actually a pretty soft deal dublin would be getting...

Your mistake is judging the change in terms of the ridiculous terms dublin have at present, rather than the situation everyone else faces into at present.

Both Milan teams are from Milan south dublin are not from north Dublin.

MayoAreMagic

salmocab wrote: »

Both Milan teams are from Milan south dublin are not from north Dublin.

They are both in county Dublin though, and it wouldnt be an official home ground of north dublin either, nor is it for dublin at present for that matter. It is just handy for dublin, as it would be handy for both Dublin teams.
I dont see that as any issue at all. The connacht centre of excellence is in mayo, it doesnt mean it is any less the connacht centre of excellence.

But if that doesnt suit, by all means get fundraising and build one.

salmocab

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

They are both in county Dublin though, and it wouldnt be an official home ground of north dublin either, nor is it for dublin at present for that matter. It is just handy for dublin, as it would be handy for both Dublin teams.
I dont see that as any issue at all. The connacht centre of excellence is in mayo, it doesnt mean it is any less the connacht centre of excellence.

But if that doesnt suit, by all means get fundraising and build one.

Yeah they are both in county Dublin. County being the important word there.
Probably hold off on the fundraising for now as this isn’t actually going to happen. It’s just people making noise over and over like anything said here would matter anywhere.
Connacht Center of excellence in Connacht doesn’t strengthen your argument by the way.

Beechwoodspark

after...what....320 pages of debate it’s clear what the overall outcome of the debate is. Dublin needs to be split into 2/4.

I will be passing on this proposal to my county reps with my personal approval and also will be providing excerpts of comments on the thread.

Thanks all and happy new year.

salmocab

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

after...what....320 pages of debate it’s clear what the overall outcome of the debate is. Dublin needs to be split into 2/4.

I will be passing on this proposal to my county reps with my personal approval and also will be providing excerpts of comments on the thread.

Thanks all and happy new year.

They’ll be delighted to hear from you and excited to hear that you’ve arrived at that decision. We can all move on now that you’ve sorted it out.

Beechwoodspark

salmocab wrote: »

They’ll be delighted to hear from you and excited to hear that you’ve arrived at that decision. We can all move on now that you’ve sorted it out.

I am just one person but believe me people from all 32 counties are strongly behind splitting dublin

salmocab

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

I am just one person but believe me people from all 32 counties are strongly behind splitting dublin

Still won’t be happening but you get your proposal in quickly.

Beechwoodspark

salmocab wrote: »

Still won’t be happening but you get your proposal in quickly.

Let’s see what happens salmon and happy new year to you and yours

salmocab

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Let’s see what happens salmon and happy new year to you and yours

And to you