The Dominance of Dublin GAA *Mod warning post#1*

tritium

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Do Dublin need to build training centres when they have use of third level institutions facilities etc that isnt possible for most other counties.

And this funding extension to other counties should have been done years ago.

Plenty of other counties also have access to third level institutions facilities etc. Kerry have close links with Tralee IT yet built their COE (I’m sure someone will now tell me about the vast distances in Kerry as though it was the Canadian Rockies or Russian steppes)

As already stated most dublin posters are happy for funding to move to develop the game in other counties also. As an experiment dublin’s success, even allowing for a golden generation, indicates it has promise as a strategy to develop teams. Honestly it would be great to see 3-4 possible winners of each province and if each of those had a realistic shot at the AI. The bit that dublin posters are pointing out is that this hasn’t been the case for a lot longer than the 15years you mentioned.

beggars_bush

Dots1982 wrote: »

The funding for Dublin is because Dublin clubs have the greatest catchment area of kids. This means clubs get the most money in from membership thereby investment in Dublin makes sense because you get a much greater return on the money on the money invested. You put a coach in Roscommon etc and you get far less of a return.

It’s why the funding is being extended to the commuter belt in counties around Dublin...greatest concentration of young families.

This is not an argument for or against the funding...it’s simply the reason why. A reason that is consistently missed by everyone.

23000 people in Athlone, no full time coach
22000 in mullingar, no coach
20000 Tullamore, no coach
20000 Portlaoise, no coach
Lots more large towns across Ireland that could do with a full time GAA development officer and plan
BUT THE MONEY ISN'T THERE for those counties to apply for

That is 85000 people in an urban area and no full time coaches funded by the GAA

But Dublin can get the money. And it's increased when they need more coaches

tritium

beggars_bush wrote: »

23000 people in Athlone, no full time coach
22000 in mullingar, no coach
20000 Tullamore, no coach
20000 Portlaoise, no coach
Lots more large towns across Ireland that could do with a full time GAA development officer and plan
BUT THE MONEY ISN'T THERE for those counties to apply for

That is 85000 people in an urban area and no full time coaches funded by the GAA

But Dublin can get the money. And it's increased when they need more coaches

Didn’t take me much searching to find this

https://leinstergaa.ie/turas-programme-gaa-coaches-leinster/

https://westmeathgaa.ie/westmeath-coaching-and-games-development-update/

But of course you’ll be telling me the GAA and Leinster council don’t care about development outside of dublin and each of these you’ve listed should have a dozen full time coaches

Maybe the GAA, you know, have a plan to cluster areas to get maximum benefit? (I don’t know by the way, that’s only my interpretation- I’d love if someone with detailed knowledge would chip in). But you'd rather take the approach of “dublin get everything”.

beggars_bush

One visit to a club doesn't exactly give much support

beggars_bush

tritium wrote: »

Didn’t take me much searching to find this

https://leinstergaa.ie/turas-programme-gaa-coaches-leinster/

https://westmeathgaa.ie/westmeath-coaching-and-games-development-update/

But of course you’ll be telling me the GAA and Leinster council don’t care about development outside of dublin and each of these you’ve listed should have a dozen full time coaches

Maybe the GAA, you know, have a plan to cluster areas to get maximum benefit? (I don’t know by the way, that’s only my interpretation- I’d love if someone with detailed knowledge would chip in). But you'd rather take the approach of “dublin get everything”.

Dublin is funded separately to Leinster GAA

tritium

beggars_bush wrote: »

One visit to a club doesn't exactly give much support

Jesus I bet you complain that they’re not building a separate full children’s hospital in each of those towns too

You do realize that the population of Tallaght alone isn’t far off the numbers you’ve quoted

bruschi

Dots1982 wrote: »

Is GAA an amateur sport..like really?

The players don’t get paid for now but the GAA are maximizing revenue through negotiating tv deals and putting fixtures in the calendar that put revenue generation as the most important element in their fixture setting decisions.

Why would games development funding decisions be any different?

It depends on where the game is going really. There is always the point that there are 15 players on one team and 32 teams out there (in very simple terms). so is it right that the governing body puts the vast majority of its resources to one of these counties?

Maximising one county to the detriment of others, being coordinated by the governing body, just doesnt sit right to me in what is supposed to be a level playing field. There will always be variances, population, resources, history, etc. However when the governing body itself creates a manufactured imbalance, that to me is wrong.

The program worked, college courses in Carlow, more recognition of S&C and other sports based programs to get quality coaches to work in with clubs to maximise participation levels and quality of coaching set ups. Why it took so long to expand this elsewhere is the issue. And steadfastly so. Despite many counties struggling for long times and looking for just additional coaches at central county level, never mind specific club coaching and always being refused.

If nothing else, the success of the Dublin coaching project should be the catalyst to be able to offer the program outside of Dublin. Whether counties or clubs take up on this is another thing, but at least make the option available.

beggars_bush

tritium wrote: »

Jesus I bet you complain that they’re not building a separate full children’s hospital in each of those towns too

You do realize that the population of Tallaght alone isn’t far off the numbers you’ve quoted

How many clubs in Tallaght?

blanch152

bruschi wrote: »

It depends on where the game is going really. There is always the point that there are 15 players on one team and 32 teams out there (in very simple terms). so is it right that the governing body puts the vast majority of its resources to one of these counties?

Maximising one county to the detriment of others, being coordinated by the governing body, just doesnt sit right to me in what is supposed to be a level playing field. There will always be variances, population, resources, history, etc. However when the governing body itself creates a manufactured imbalance, that to me is wrong.

The program worked, college courses in Carlow, more recognition of S&C and other sports based programs to get quality coaches to work in with clubs to maximise participation levels and quality of coaching set ups. Why it took so long to expand this elsewhere is the issue. And steadfastly so. Despite many counties struggling for long times and looking for just additional coaches at central county level, never mind specific club coaching and always being refused.

If nothing else, the success of the Dublin coaching project should be the catalyst to be able to offer the program outside of Dublin. Whether counties or clubs take up on this is another thing, but at least make the option available.

That is exactly what is happening. Over the last few years the money given to Dublin has been decreasing while the money to others increasing to the extent that per capita Dublin is now in the middle of the pack when it comes to games development funding. There was a post a while back that showed this clearly.

ArielAtom

beggars_bush wrote: »

How many clubs in Tallaght?

Of the top of my head 5. Thomas Davis, St Marks, St Annes, Kevin Killians and Croi ro Naofa. I might be wrong.

gaffer91

All this nonsense about the Mayo donor is a red herring- even if the money was fundraised and misspent, the sums talked about pale in comparison to the millions that Dublin have received and continue to receive.

If you want to factor in capital spending/ infrastructure projects e.g Pairc Ui Chaoimh, centre of excellence in Kerry, then the comparison must be with similar entities in Dublin e.g Croke Park, the games development centre at Abbotstown, DCU's facilities- again, Dublin are grossly favoured and overfunded relative to everyone else.

The question really is- are you a biased, partisan supporter of your own county who is happy to see the game die at inter-county level, or are you someone who sees the unfair advantages that Dublin have for what they are? I'm definitely the latter- because of this, I am in favour of splitting Dublin, not because of any animosity towards people from the county, whatever siege mentality they may have, but because it will enhance the game all over the country (including in Dublin).

Strumms

If someone did send in a big fat donation cheque to Mayo GAA worth whatever...I’d say good luck to them, if they wanted to use all or part of it to employ coaches ? Absolutely fine with that too, to improve facilities ? Great ! To build a center of excellence ? Fantastic ! To improve the overall administration of the games in the county ? Most excellent, to be applauded... not going to begrudge success at all, it’s great to see.

Strumms

gaffer91 wrote: »

If you want to factor in capital spending/ infrastructure projects e.g Pairc Ui Chaoimh, centre of excellence in Kerry, then the comparison must be with similar entities in Dublin e.g Croke Park, the games development centre at Abbotstown, DCU's facilities- again, Dublin are grossly favoured and overfunded relative to everyone.

DCU is a college. They don’t discriminate as to who they allow use the facility. In fact talking about Mayo probably their best two footballers are gym members there and maybe more besides they are just the two I’ve seen....

I’m a member and I’m a joe soap, there too are athletes from the 32 counties, female, male countless sports from GAA, athletics, cricket, soccer, basketball, etc

DCU is in Dublin but not ‘for’ Dublin

tritium

gaffer91 wrote: »

All this nonsense about the Mayo donor is a red herring- even if the money was fundraised and misspent, the sums talked about pale in comparison to the millions that Dublin have received and continue to receive.

If you want to factor in capital spending/ infrastructure projects e.g Pairc Ui Chaoimh, centre of excellence in Kerry, then the comparison must be with similar entities in Dublin e.g Croke Park, the games development centre at Abbotstown, DCU's facilities- again, Dublin are grossly favoured and overfunded relative to everyone else.

The question really is- are you a biased, partisan supporter of your own county who is happy to see the game die at inter-county level, or are you someone who sees the unfair advantages that Dublin have for what they are? I'm definitely the latter- because of this, I am in favour of splitting Dublin, not because of any animosity towards people from the county, whatever siege mentality they may have, but because it will enhance the game all over the country (including in Dublin).

Ah so you can’t answer the questions on Kerry’s historical advantages so we move to this...

I assume we can discount all dublin spending back to rural prices? Factor in the amount of money facilities like Croke park provide back to the wider GAA through concerts matches etc? (Remember if there’s a net gain anywhere that should offset any dublin money )And the use non dubs get from it needs to be considered, after all Kerry have played more AI finals there than dublin.....

beggars_bush

Strumms wrote: »

DCU is a college. They don’t discriminate as to who they allow use the facility. In fact talking about Mayo probably their best two footballers are gym members there and maybe more besides they are just the two I’ve seen....

I’m a member and I’m a joe soap, there too are athletes from the 32 counties, female, male countless sports from GAA, athletics, cricket, soccer, basketball, etc

DCU is in Dublin but not ‘for’ Dublin

I cannot understand why the Waterford footballers or Leitrim hurlers aren't using DCU or UCD more

ClanofLams

tritium wrote: »

Plenty of other counties also have access to third level institutions facilities etc. Kerry have close links with Tralee IT yet built their COE (I’m sure someone will now tell me about the vast distances in Kerry as though it was the Canadian Rockies or Russian steppes)

As already stated most dublin posters are happy for funding to move to develop the game in other counties also. As an experiment dublin’s success, even allowing for a golden generation, indicates it has promise as a strategy to develop teams. Honestly it would be great to see 3-4 possible winners of each province and if each of those had a realistic shot at the AI. The bit that dublin posters are pointing out is that this hasn’t been the case for a lot longer than the 15years you mentioned.

Most Dublin posters were telling us funding had no impact whatsoever on the dominance of their team. Good to see at least one poster recognising the strategy was a substantial factor in their success.

tritium

ClanofLams wrote: »

Most Dublin posters were telling us funding had no impact whatsoever on the dominance of their team. Good to see at least one poster recognising the strategy was a substantial factor in their success.

What, coaching kids leads to adults who can play the game? Seems a bit obvious no? More than happy for more money to be spent to ensure counties who tell us haven’t had access to that expertise can do it. The Turas Programme on the face of it looks like a very clever approach to making sure that happens.

Interesting though that you need to spin my words. Anyone could just look at a hundred years of the Munster championship to see that a funding gap will have some effect, the trick now is ensuring that (I) counties like dublin mayo and Kerry aren’t allowed the same finance gap to the Carlows and Leitrims that has historically existed and (Ii) the funds are used in a way that enables long term competitiveness

tritium

beggars_bush wrote: »

I cannot understand why the Waterford footballers or Leitrim hurlers aren't using DCU or UCD more

There a top class pitch and GAA facilities in WIT, I was down there only last weekend for something non. GAA related and saw them. Are you telling me no one is using them? I’d be asking questions of the county board if that the case. It’s pretty standard after all, Kerry have used Tralee it for yonks and I think some other posters have mentioned mayo with GMIT. It seems pretty obvious tbh

Bonniedog

WIT has won 8 Fitzbibbons in last 30 years. Waterford hurlers hardly need to be travelling to Dublin for any reason.

Slattsy

Bonniedog wrote: »

WIT has won 8 Fitzbibbons in last 30 years. Waterford hurlers hardly need to be travelling to Dublin for any reason.

The birds.

gaffer91

Strumms wrote: »

DCU is a college. They don’t discriminate as to who they allow use the facility. In fact talking about Mayo probably their best two footballers are gym members there and maybe more besides they are just the two I’ve seen....

I’m a member and I’m a joe soap, there too are athletes from the 32 counties, female, male countless sports from GAA, athletics, cricket, soccer, basketball, etc

DCU is in Dublin but not ‘for’ Dublin

The point is that Dublin have these terrific facilities at their doorstep that they don't have to pay for- the capital spending can be a bit misleading as it can just depend on the stage of the cycle a particular piece of infrastructure is at (basically, stadiums and training facilities have to be repaired/ replaced at some stage). I rarely mention this kind of spending myself, but if people want to mention it in other counties, the fair comparison is with similar entities in Dublin- e.g Croke Park, Abbotstown etc. And again, we're forced to conclude that it's another area where Dublin are much better off than the average county.

Slattsy wrote: »

The birds.

Your post are genuinely terribly unfunny. Seriously- they're absolutely dreadful.

tritium wrote: »

Ah so you can’t answer the questions on Kerry’s historical advantages so we move to this...

I assume we can discount all dublin spending back to rural prices? Factor in the amount of money facilities like Croke park provide back to the wider GAA through concerts matches etc? (Remember if there’s a net gain anywhere that should offset any dublin money )And the use non dubs get from it needs to be considered, after all Kerry have played more AI finals there than dublin.....

I already have answered the questions on Kerry's perceived historical advantages which you grossly exaggerated- basically, they're not a patch on the advantages Dublin have enjoyed and continue to enjoy (e.g Dublin's financial doping, huge population and home pitch advantage).

The second paragraph of your post is confusing waffle, even more so than usual. I'll just bring it back to basics- Croke Park is Dublin's de facto home pitch. Dublin's overfunding, combined with their population and other advantages means they are winning games and titles from an unfair platform. It means their success is not replicable by anyone else.

Edit: also, it's great to see you concede that Dublin's funding has made a positive difference to their results in a recent post- it's a massive breakthrough for a Dublin supporter on this thread to finally see and accept this, so I commend you on it.

Bonniedog

There are good - very good in many cases - sports facilities attached to third level institutions across the country.

DCU may have been a pioneer but they are no longer not only unique, but cutting edge. And even when they were they majority of their footballers were non Dubs.

ClanofLams

tritium wrote: »

What, coaching kids leads to adults who can play the game? Seems a bit obvious no? More than happy for more money to be spent to ensure counties who tell us haven’t had access to that expertise can do it. The Turas Programme on the face of it looks like a very clever approach to making sure that happens.

Interesting though that you need to spin my words. Anyone could just look at a hundred years of the Munster championship to see that a funding gap will have some effect, the trick now is ensuring that (I) counties like dublin mayo and Kerry aren’t allowed the same finance gap to the Carlows and Leitrims that has historically existed and (Ii) the funds are used in a way that enables long term competitiveness

Wasn’t trying to twist your words at all. Thought you were acknowledging funding was a factor. If you’re yet another Dublin poster who believes the funding had no impact all, that’s fine.

beggars_bush

Bonniedog wrote: »

There are good - very good in many cases - sports facilities attached to third level institutions across the country.

DCU may have been a pioneer but they are no longer not only unique, but cutting edge. And even when they were they majority of their footballers were non Dubs.

True.
Nobody was really talking about their team though
We're talking about Dublin GAA being able to piggyback on the facilities and the GAA's faculties in Croke Park. And before that the national GAA centre

Dublin have had to fund practically nothing in terms of capital infrastructure

odyssey06

beggars_bush wrote: »

True.
Nobody was really talking about their team though
We're talking about Dublin GAA being able to piggyback on the facilities and the GAA's faculties in Croke Park. And before that the national GAA centre
Dublin have had to fund practically nothing in terms of capital infrastructure

And the reason why that suits the GAA is the money and punters Dublin brings in to pay for those facilities in rent and gate etc etc
Tha GAA are also piggy backing on Dublin. It suits them to have Dublin there as much as possible rather than setting up a 25000 stadium somewhere else in Dublin.

SelmaHayek

odyssey06 wrote: »

And the reason why that suits the GAA is the money and punters Dublin brings in to pay for those facilities in rent and gate etc etc
Tha GAA are also piggy backing on Dublin. It suits them to have Dublin there as much as possible rather than setting up a 25000 stadium somewhere else in Dublin.

Isn't this why the GAA agreed to go along with the plan to finance Dublin GAA in the first place? A better Dublin meant higher resources for the GAA.

tritium

ClanofLams wrote: »

Wasn’t trying to twist your words at all. Thought you were acknowledging funding was a factor. If you’re yet another Dublin poster who believes the funding had no impact all, that’s fine.

Did it have an impact on making gaelic games accessible to many kids in the capital at an early age who might otherwise have been lost. Yeah, sure. Tbh I’m not sure how anyone interested in promoting Gaelic games would see that as a bad thing. The GAA clearly don’t since they’ve looked to build initiatives like Turas to continue this across Leinster.

Did it lead to the current golden generation. No, not really. Players like Cluxton and the Brogans were already committed before the money to develop young players arrived. It will only be the next generation, such as Murchan, that you might see the benefit of the development funds. I do think that the success of this golden generation will probably do more to bring kids to GAA than any amount of funding though

tritium

gaffer91 wrote: »

The point is that Dublin have these terrific facilities at their doorstep that they don't have to pay for- the capital spending can be a bit misleading as it can just depend on the stage of the cycle a particular piece of infrastructure is at (basically, stadiums and training facilities have to be repaired/ replaced at some stage). I rarely mention this kind of spending myself, but if people want to mention it in other counties, the fair comparison is with similar entities in Dublin- e.g Croke Park, Abbotstown etc. And again, we're forced to conclude that it's another area where Dublin are much better off than the average county.



Your post are genuinely terribly unfunny. Seriously- they're absolutely dreadful.



I already have answered the questions on Kerry's perceived historical advantages which you grossly exaggerated- basically, they're not a patch on the advantages Dublin have enjoyed and continue to enjoy (e.g Dublin's financial doping, huge population and home pitch advantage).

The second paragraph of your post is confusing waffle, even more so than usual. I'll just bring it back to basics- Croke Park is Dublin's de facto home pitch. Dublin's overfunding, combined with their population and other advantages means they are winning games and titles from an unfair platform. It means their success is not replicable by anyone else.

Edit: also, it's great to see you concede that Dublin's funding has made a positive difference to their results in a recent post- it's a massive breakthrough for a Dublin supporter on this thread to finally see and accept this, so I commend you on it.

I’ve got to hand it to you, your argument gets its ass handed to it and you just repackage it as some other nonsense and come right back for more. Doesn’t actually make it any more valid though.

It would be nice though if you stopped misrepresenting posts to suit yourself

Oh it would also be nice if actually answered the points about Kerry’s historic advantages!

blanch152

beggars_bush wrote: »

I cannot understand why the Waterford footballers or Leitrim hurlers aren't using DCU or UCD more

Have you been out to the WIT sports complex?

MayoAreMagic

aodomhnaill wrote: »

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/millionaire-withholds-250000-from-mayo-county-board-38536084.html

Anything to say about this mayoaremagic? €415k in one year from a single investor. €60k training camps in New York, any thoughts?

Interesting to read just how inept and dysfunctional the mayo county board, this type of stuff generally filters down to players on the field as we all know.

Massive spending no doubt about it. You would imagine it couldnt be topped.
And yet, despite having food and accommodation sponsored - which mayo dont - dublin still manage to outspend them in a per game basis. What the hell are they spending it on? Solid gold boots?
I suppose the difference is, I can say it is massive spending that my county is doing. I wont blame everyone and anyone and claim it is 31v1, and all that other bs. That is where we differ