The Dominance of Dublin GAA *Mod warning post#1*

Rockbeast2

Hill 16

That's it.

If you are not from Dublin then you can never experience watching your team win 1/2/3/4/5 All-Irelands from Hill 16.

Hard luck

gaffer91

tritium wrote: »

Kerry have one if the longest established and most lucrative sponsorship arrangements in Irish sport. In addition to sponsorship they’ve happily written large cheques for infrastructure.

That’s on top of their “fundraising” - dipping into the pockets of foreign and domestic corporate and high net worth donors while they’re distracted by a plate of chicken curry.

And the occasional off the books donation from German sportswear manufacturers


They’ve had this advantage for decades and, combined with administrative structures that favorited them they’ve managed to turn their own province into a footballing wasteland. It has inevitably led them to an easier path to win all the AIs they’ve amassed, with less and less taxing games. It’s not coincidental had we have seen a significant level of Kerry dominance for those decades, with only a brief blip after the second greatest team in Gaelic football history grew old together. Nothing has happened to correct this- at best dublin represent a viable attempt to enable a challenger: I honestly wish they’d do the same for cork to make them competitive in Munster and then tailor and fund plans for other Munster counties- it would do Kerry and the GAA good to have to have real competition there at last, it’s only taken a century

Fix the Kerry problem and when we see how the land lies we might look at dublin

Again, you're trying to draw some sort of absurd false equivalence between Kerry and Dublin. There is none.

Dublin's funding has totally outstripped Kerry's. Their population is much larger than everyone else's. Dublin play all consequential games at home- Kerry don't. You're continuing to only look at the outcomes, rather than the inputs (in Dublin's case, these inputs include unfair advantages like financial doping, huge playing pool and home advantage, among others).

If you were to argue that the provincials should be done away with- that's fine, Dublin still have to be split.
If you were to argue that all spending on inter-county teams should be leveled (maybe after things like mileage and accommodation are taken into account)- that's fine, Dublin will still have to be split, both because of population and because of the residual impact of the financial doping that has taken place over the last 15 or so years.

Rockbeast2

^ Population of Dublin - 1.8 Million

- Minus Women = 900,000

- Minus those under 18 and over 32 = 200,000

- Minus blowin culchies (LOL) = 100,000

- Minus new Irish = 50,000

- Minus Rugby only players = 20,000

- Minus Soccer only players = 1,134

- Minus computer nerds = 34

- Minus that lad who didn't like sport in school = 33

33. That's the number of players available to Jim Gavin. And he can still assemble a 5-in-a-row squad from those numbers!

* For citations, please refer to my a$$.

Up The Dubs!

LOL ;-)

Fann Linn

Rockbeast2 wrote: »

^ Population of Dublin - 1.8 Million

- Minus Women = 900,000

- Minus those under 18 and over 32 = 200,000

- Minus blowin culchies (LOL) = 100,000

- Minus new Irish = 50,000

- Minus Rugby only players = 20,000

- Minus Soccer only players = 1,134

- Minus computer nerds = 34

- Minus that lad who didn't like sport in school = 33

33. That's the number of players available to Jim Gavin. And he can still assemble a 5-in-a-row squad from those numbers!

* For citations, please refer to my a$$.

Up The Dubs!

LOL ;-)

And don't forget the 2 who don't like Aslan.

tritium

gaffer91 wrote: »

Again, you're trying to draw some sort of absurd false equivalence between Kerry and Dublin. There is none.

Dublin's funding has totally outstripped Kerry's. Their population is much larger than everyone else's. Dublin play all consequential games at home- Kerry don't. You're continuing to only look at the outcomes, rather than the inputs (in Dublin's case, these inputs include unfair advantages like financial doping, huge playing pool and home advantage, among others).

If you were to argue that the provincials should be done away with- that's fine, Dublin still have to be split.
If you were to argue that all spending on inter-county teams should be leveled (maybe after things like mileage and accommodation are taken into account)- that's fine, Dublin will still have to be split, both because of population and because of the residual impact of the financial doping that has taken place over the last 15 or so years.

Except based on the criteria you’ve set Kerry have been a financially (and administratively) doped juggernaut for decades. The effect is so severe that any historical analysis shows it even outstrips any population advantages other counties may have.

It’s clear that the population advantage (for dublin and other counties) has always existed yet dublins historical success levels are, as some have pointed out, unexceptional, so a splitting for population reasons is clearly a red herring.

It’s also clear that Kerry’s significant financial and administrative advantages have also essentially always existed, and there we do see a correlation with success, therefore the inescapable conclusion is that Kerry is a problem that long ago got out of hand and needs to be fixed before anything else.

As I said previously, I’d support the GAA extending development finance to teams like cork to realize their potential- it would be great for Munster. A different but financially supported model could apply to other Munster counties. Undoing the damage Kerry have done to the Munster championship would be a noble goal.

I’d also go so far as saying counties with significant sponsorship and corporate benefactors should give a percentage to be redistributed. Mind you today’s revelations make me wonder how much is actually openly declared and indeed how much is reclassified from corporate donations to fundraising- a very firm hand would be needed here

kyote00

Jaysus, gaffer91 - you are like the flat eathers - repeating the same stuff even though it has been proven incorrect.... so lets go again....

gaffer91 wrote: »

Dublin's funding has totally outstripped Kerry's.

This statement is incorrect and unfair. As was shown in earlier posts - they funding per clubs/player/teams are roughtly the same.
Kerry have also taken advantage of massive funding from Kerry Group over the years.

gaffer91 wrote: »

Dublin play all consequential games at home-

This statement is also incorrect. You attempt to define all and consequential is weak as it is not up to Dublin who are drawn against them. Dublin have played Tyrone twice in Omagh in recent years. In the past there was the famous battle of omagh where Dublin were forced to warm up in the car park

This year final saw a kerry waterboy try to squirt water at a Dublin player from the sideline (missed as most of those shots in the second half)

Also the Mayo GPS throwing incident

gaffer91

tritium wrote: »

Except based on the criteria you’ve set Kerry have been a financially (and administratively) doped juggernaut for decades. The effect is so severe that any historical analysis shows it even outstrips any population advantages other counties may have.

It’s clear that the population advantage (for dublin and other counties) has always existed yet dublins historical success levels are, as some have pointed out, unexceptional, so a splitting for population reasons is clearly a red herring.

It’s also clear that Kerry’s significant financial and administrative advantages have also essentially always existed, and there we do see a correlation with success, therefore the inescapable conclusion is that Kerry is a problem that long ago got out of hand and needs to be fixed before anything else.

As I said previously, I’d support the GAA extending development finance to teams like cork to realize their potential- it would be great for Munster. A different but financially supported model could apply to other Munster counties. Undoing the damage Kerry have done to the Munster championship would be a noble goal.

I’d also go so far as saying counties with significant sponsorship and corporate benefactors should give a percentage to be redistributed. Mind you today’s revelations make me wonder how much is actually openly declared and indeed how much is reclassified from corporate donations to fundraising- a very firm hand would be needed here

Again- Dublin receive much more money than Kerry do. Both from the GAA and from their sponsors.

The All Ireland was always unfairly biased towards Dublin because of their larger population- just because they historically failed to take full benefit of this doesn't mean it wasn't an unfair advantage. Inputs into their victories, not just the outcomes are important. Also, they weren't mediocre, they had the 2nd highest title count.

Also, Dublin have had home advantage too.

So the three big factors I've identified i.e financial doping, population and home advantage- only benefit Dublin. As these are so entrenched, the only viable solution is to split Dublin.

gaffer91

kyote00 wrote: »

Jaysus, gaffer91 - you are like the flat eathers - repeating the same stuff even though it has been proven incorrect.... so lets go again....



This statement is incorrect and unfair. As was shown in earlier posts - they funding per clubs/player/teams are roughtly the same.
Kerry have also taken advantage of massive funding from Kerry Group over the years.




This statement is also incorrect. You attempt to define all and consequential is weak as it is not up to Dublin who are drawn against them. Dublin have played Tyrone twice in Omagh in recent years. In the past there was the famous battle of omagh where Dublin were forced to warm up in the car park

This year final saw a kerry waterboy try to squirt water at a Dublin player from the sideline (missed as most of those shots in the second half)

Also the Mayo GPS throwing incident

What a terrible post by you.

I've been proven correct over and over. I do find these threads often go off inconsequential tangents though so I try to bring it back to basics (i.e Dublin are financial doping, home advantage helps them, they have a much larger playing pool) as often as I can.

The funding per player (from the association alone, never mind when sponsors are taken into account) is much higher in Dublin- this is a matter of public record. From 2007-2018, Dublin received €274 per registered player. The next highest county was a quarter of that. Dublin's sponsors contribute more also.

Yes, Dublin have been forced to play away the last two years- granted. I should have said "most consequential games"- I normally remember to make that qualification. Regardless, they play every semi final and final at home which is a huge advantage to them.

The population is also a huge advantage as it is very difficult to transfer in Gaelic Games so if you have a larger playing pool, your likelihood of having naturally excellent players correspondingly increases. The money then helps to develop and condition these players.

Rockbeast2

^ I think it's great that David Clifford is playing for Kerry, rather than playing Aussie Rules.

kyote00

Interesting, you have managed to totally defeat your own argument with that post ....

Dublin get €274 per registered player ---> think about this ---> you are then trying to say that this €274 is enough to make a world beater of a player.

15 players take the field for Dublin --> not 1.8 million -> the diluted effect of the funding is €274 per player

So I think its time to call BS on the financial doping.

gaffer91 wrote: »

What a terrible post by you.

I've been proven correct over and over. I do find these threads often go off inconsequential tangents though so I try to bring it back to basics (i.e Dublin are financial doping, home advantage helps them, they have a much larger playing pool) as often as I can.

The funding per player (from the association alone, never mind when sponsors are taken into account) is much higher in Dublin- this is a matter of public record. From 2007-2018, Dublin received €274 per registered player. The next highest county was a quarter of that. Dublin's sponsors contribute more also.

Yes, Dublin have been forced to play away the last two years- granted. I should have said "most consequential games"- I normally remember to make that qualification. Regardless, they play every semi final and final at home which is a huge advantage to them.

The population is also a huge advantage as it is very difficult to transfer in Gaelic Games so if you have a larger playing pool, your likelihood of having naturally excellent players correspondingly increases. The money then helps to develop and condition these players.

Happyilylost

kyote00 wrote:

This year final saw a kerry waterboy try to squirt water at a Dublin player from the sideline (missed as most of those shots in the second half)

kyote00 wrote:

Also the Mayo GPS throwing incident

How has either of these points got to do with where Dublin play?

Hammer Archer

For Jesus sake people, surely you're all grown adults? Calm the fcuk down and stop posting absolute nonsense, both sides.
We will be issuing threadbans if this sort of posting continues. You know who you are.

Dots1982

Number of posts: 3286?

Number of Dublin supporters convinced that their success is due to unfair advantages: 0

Number of non-Dubliners persuaded that Dublin's success is due to Jim Gavin, better county board/volunteer organisation, a once in a generation standard of player: 0

Rockbeast2

* Number of All-Irelands in last 10 years?

blanch152

Rockbeast2 wrote: »

This will be fun!

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/millionaire-withholds-250000-from-mayo-county-board-38536084.html

Dots1982 wrote: »

Mayo GAA fundraised 1.761 million in two years. Dublin raised 161k in 3 years. All according to their own accounts.

In the same two year period Dublin paid 2 million in administration expenses (half are salaries). Mayo paid 130k for the same expenses for the same two years.

I know which one i think is more likely to be inept and dysfunctional. Especially given wages in the Dublin GAA is out of control.

aodomhnaill wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2019/0926/1078310-wealthy-backer-withholds-250-000-from-mayo-gaa/

Mayo spends over €1m annually on preparing county teams alone so the €250,000 is a significant sum in this context, though it hasn't been included in the county’s annual budget for this year or next.

The county has been in financial trouble in the past, with Croke Park bailing them out on €5m of debt run up redeveloping Elverys MacHale Park, a project itself that was mired in planning difficulties and led to long-running disputes with local residents in Castlebar.

Mayo are hoping to develop a new centre of excellence in the county, a project the Mayo GAA International Supporters Foundation say they were set to support, though that may now be in doubt.

Mayo GAA already has an official fundraising body, Cáirde Maigheo, which was set up several years ago amid concerns over the governance of unofficial fundraising groups.

sounds like everything is in tip top shape from an administration point in Mayo alright.

We have told on these threads on many occasions that other county boards have solid development plans in place that haven't attracted funding. Now it seems that Mayo at least can't even get their own billionaire supporters to agree that they have solid business plans in place. I have consistently argued that other county boards are not as well-run as Dublin. Today's article only adds to the evidence in favour.

I have also said that the figures show that Mayo have concentrated funding on the senior team, to the exclusion of development, in a valiant but ultimately failed attempt to secure an All-Ireland from their greatest ever group of talent. The figures didn't reveal 61k for a jolly in New York until now.

This comes only a week after it was revealed that the government has had to bail out the Kerry Sport Academy in IT Tralee

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/government-gives-5m-in-emergency-funding-to-keep-it-tralee-afloat-1.4021249

Why it was needed with the Kerry GAA hothouse academy in Farranfore, I don't know. Remember that was the one built on fundraising, which consisted of putting the hand out for funding from Kerry Group, National Lottery, Munster Council and central GAA for 80% of the funding. Still, it shows that sport in Kerry hasn't got its house in order either.

Criticism of Dublin from those quarters will need to be taken with a pinch of salt (and bitter lemon). They need to concentrate on getting their own house in order first.

Everything the Dubs have said about the deficiencies in other counties is being shown by these relevations to be true. Yet, no evidence has ever been produced as to how players like Rock, Brogan, McCaffrey, McCarthy etc. were improved by "financial doping" rather than their own natural DNA coming from their families. Neither has it been explained how Cluxton revolutionised Gaelic football goalkeeping thanks to "financial doping".

The argument that financial doping created the Dublin success was always full of holes. Today, it looks like a beaten docket.

As I said earlier in the thread, long may Dublin continue pouring money into mass juvenile participation rather than expensive training facilities for the senior team (or jollies to New York) or white elephant projects such as Pairc Ui Chaoimh.

odyssey06

The irony is that 'donations' from sugar daddies and overvalued sponsorship deals are what financial fair play rules were brought into soccer to prevent!

Rockbeast2

^ Great post, Blanch152


* old PC, so I can't quote. Sorry :-(

ToBeFrank123

odyssey06 wrote: »

The irony is that 'donations' from sugar daddies and overvalued sponsorship deals are what financial fair play rules were brought into soccer to prevent!

Forgetting the greatest sugar daddy of them all are we? The once mighty Bertie Ahern who was able to direct 1.5 million a year of our money for the purposes of games development solely in Dublin. Willing to overlook FFP on that one I suppose?

blanch152

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Forgetting the greatest sugar daddy of them all are we? The once mighty Bertie Ahern who was able to direct 1.5 million a year of our money for the purposes of games development solely in Dublin. Willing to overlook FFP on that one I suppose?

Again, nobody has shown the mechanism whereby funding of mass juvenile participation makes Dean Rock a better player than his dad.

beggars_bush

odyssey06 wrote: »

The irony is that 'donations' from sugar daddies and overvalued sponsorship deals are what financial fair play rules were brought into soccer to prevent!

When is the money from AIG going to be spread out to other counties?

beggars_bush

blanch152 wrote: »

We have told on these threads on many occasions that other county boards have solid development plans in place that haven't attracted funding. Now it seems that Mayo at least can't even get their own billionaire supporters to agree that they have solid business plans in place. I have consistently argued that other county boards are not as well-run as Dublin. Today's article only adds to the evidence in favour.

I have also said that the figures show that Mayo have concentrated funding on the senior team, to the exclusion of development, in a valiant but ultimately failed attempt to secure an All-Ireland from their greatest ever group of talent. The figures didn't reveal 61k for a jolly in New York until now.

This comes only a week after it was revealed that the government has had to bail out the Kerry Sport Academy in IT Tralee

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/government-gives-5m-in-emergency-funding-to-keep-it-tralee-afloat-1.4021249

Why it was needed with the Kerry GAA hothouse academy in Farranfore, I don't know. Remember that was the one built on fundraising, which consisted of putting the hand out for funding from Kerry Group, National Lottery, Munster Council and central GAA for 80% of the funding. Still, it shows that sport in Kerry hasn't got its house in order either.

Criticism of Dublin from those quarters will need to be taken with a pinch of salt (and bitter lemon). They need to concentrate on getting their own house in order first.

Everything the Dubs have said about the deficiencies in other counties is being shown by these relevations to be true. Yet, no evidence has ever been produced as to how players like Rock, Brogan, McCaffrey, McCarthy etc. were improved by "financial doping" rather than their own natural DNA coming from their families. Neither has it been explained how Cluxton revolutionised Gaelic football goalkeeping thanks to "financial doping".

The argument that financial doping created the Dublin success was always full of holes. Today, it looks like a beaten docket.

As I said earlier in the thread, long may Dublin continue pouring money into mass juvenile participation rather than expensive training facilities for the senior team (or jollies to New York) or white elephant projects such as Pairc Ui Chaoimh.

If Dublin were in the connacht championship they'd have to go over every few years.
They might actually be able to organise a fundraiser to build their own training centre

Strumms

beggars_bush wrote: »

When is the money from AIG going to be spread out to other counties?

At the same time that money from Chill Insurance is spread out to other counties , at the same time money from Kerry group is spread out to other counties, Avenmore too....

Floppybits

blanch152 wrote: »

Again, nobody has shown the mechanism whereby funding of mass juvenile participation makes Dean Rock a better player than his dad.

Ah here, the auld lad is better.:D

blanch152

beggars_bush wrote: »

When is the money from AIG going to be spread out to other counties?

beggars_bush wrote: »

If Dublin were in the connacht championship they'd have to go over every few years.
They might actually be able to organise a fundraiser to build their own training centre

Neither of your posts in any way address any of the points raised by me.

Even if the AIG money was spread out to other counties, the evidence suggests that Kerry, Mayo and Cork at least, would waste it on vanity projects.

Dublin don't put importance on any training centres. They train where they can, why would they waste money like other counties?

Better off keeping the money for juveniles as Dublin do.

ToBeFrank123

blanch152 wrote: »

Neither of your posts in any way address any of the points raised by me.

Even if the AIG money was spread out to other counties, the evidence suggests that Kerry, Mayo and Cork at least, would waste it on vanity projects.

Dublin don't put importance on any training centres. They train where they can, why would they waste money like other counties?

Better off keeping the money for juveniles as Dublin do.

FFS. The gdf money is ring fenced by the GAA for games development. Even if Dublin wanted to use the money on vanity projects or the senior team the GAA wouldn't let them.

The massive gdf funding is a luxury only Dublin have.

You don't really understand how gdf works or how it impacts on creating the next generation of footballer. This is the reason people call it financial doping. Its a clear advantage bestowed on Dublin by the GAA over all other counties. In fact it couldn't be clearer. Cue Dubs trying to muddy the waters though.

Rockbeast2

I'm sure my point, and the point of quite a few others, is get your house in order.

That goes for every county.

Did or did not, a tiny town close to the border defeat a Dublin "superclub" recently in a semi-final?

Too many excuses.

15 v 15.

That's it. That's all it is.

ToBeFrank123

Rockbeast2 wrote: »

I'm sure my point, and the point of quite a few others, is get your house in order.

That goes for every county.

Did or did not, a tiny town close to the border defeat a Dublin "superclub" recently in a semi-final?

Too many excuses.

15 v 15.

That's it. That's all it is.

Super rich as well as financially doped sports team tells others to get their house in order shocker!

Never grows old

Rockbeast2

"Super rich as well as financially doped... "

You need to channel this hatred into a positive thing.

Don't be bitter, be better.

Rockbeast2

Let me tell you all.

I played for Dublin once.

In Croke Park, full-house.

I got less than one minute.

I almost touched the ball.

We won.

I'm not even 40.

Rockbeast2

^^ Best day EVER