Is this the end of Democrat front runner Joe Biden?

Quin_Dub

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

I am not even a fan of Trump but the amount of inaccuracies in the thread are startling you would think you were on the echo chamber that is Twitter, If you want to criticize someone at least be accurate, if they are as bad as you think then no one needs to lie about them or misrepresent what they say by injecting accusations of dog whistling or whatever.

Give me 3...Any 3 will do...

mcmoustache

Deleted User wrote: »

It's really difficult to pull a coherent thought out of that...

Look. When you're copying and pasting everything, sometimes you put the wrong clipboard contents into the wrong part of the wrong post.

Try writing multiple comments in multiple fora where all you do is copy from dodgy Trump-suckup sites and paste into your posts and see for yourself how quickly your posts start to look like incoherent ramblings.

weisses

Quin_Dub wrote: »

Give me 3...Any 3 will do...

Its not the end of front runner Joe Biden ..... Thats one

jackboy

Quin_Dub wrote: »

Having a big Statue in the middle of a town to Traitorous Racists is not in anyway shape or form defensible.

How much of a traitor? Do we go with the technical definition only?

How much of a racist? Should Churchill and Gandhi statues come down?

Of course there are statues that the vast majority would not like to see. But there are many, many statues that divide opinion.

What will Biden do if president? His opinion on statue knocking might be more robust then.

Quin_Dub

jackboy wrote: »

How much of a traitor? Do we go with the technical definition only?

Well , the legal definition will do fine

Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort

So , the Confederate states and their leaders are covered there quite clearly.

jackboy wrote: »

How much of a racist? Should Churchill and Gandhi statues come down?

What we are talking about is a country celebrating people that fought against them and sought to destroy them - Who the hell does that??

jackboy wrote: »

Of course there are statues that the vast majority would not like to see. But there are many, many statues that divide opinion.

What will Biden do if president? His opinion on statue knocking might be more robust then.

I'd say Biden will do the sensible thing - Which is to remove all of the Confederate from public places , they do not have to be destroyed , they should be moved to Museums or some other contextually relevant location.

Theme park isn't the right word , but parks telling the history of an event would be fine. For example there would be nothing wrong with having the statues of all the opposing generals at the sites of Gettysburg or Appomatox or whatever.

The issue is having them on main thoroughfares in places that suggest that they are to be glorified.

Remembered absolutely , but glorified and considered "Heroes" ? absolutely categorically not.

Overheal

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

I am not even a fan of Trump but the amount of inaccuracies in the thread are startling you would think you were on the echo chamber that is Twitter, If you want to criticize someone at least be accurate, if they are as bad as you think then no one needs to lie about them or misrepresent what they say by injecting accusations of dog whistling or whatever.

These dog whistles aren’t just made up? $88 baseball, the Nazi like tee shirt, just to name a couple.

Nobody is making this up. It’s right there.

ohnonotgmail

jackboy wrote: »

How much of a traitor? Do we go with the technical definition only?

How much of a racist? Should Churchill and Gandhi statues come down?

Of course there are statues that the vast majority would not like to see. But there are many, many statues that divide opinion.

What will Biden do if president? His opinion on statue knocking might be more robust then.

the confederate statues were nearly all erected during the jim crow and civil rights eras. they were a sign to black people that the same white people were still in charge of their lives.

rossie1977

jackboy wrote: »

It is just as valid to consider some confederate generals ‘heroes’ as considering some union generals heroes.

The civil war was not a war caused and fought solely over slavery. There were a lot of different leaders on both sides fighting for different reasons. Seeing it as a straight fight of good against evil is very simplistic. Some confederate military leaders did achieve some incredible things during some battles. It is not surprising or wrong that a lot of people would consider some of these leaders heroes.

Sorry what..

Rommel is arguably one of the greatest military commanders in history but yet nobody views him as a hero.

Civil war was solely over slavery. Numerous states clearly outline slavery as key reason for leaving union, confederate constitution has a clause enshrining slavery forever.

In fact confederate vice president Alexander Stephens in a speech in 1861 said

Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite idea; its foundations are laid, its corner-stone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery subordination to the superior race is his natural and normal condition

jackboy

rossie1977 wrote: »

Sorry what..

Rommel is arguably one of the greatest military commanders in history but yet nobody views him as a hero.

Civil war was solely over slavery. Numerous states clearly outline slavery as key reason for leaving union, confederate constitution has a clause enshrining slavery forever.

In fact confederate vice president Alexander Stephens in a speech in 1861 said

You are right, but politicians start wars and then soldiers have to fight them. A lot of the confederate military leaders were not more evil than a lot of the union military leaders.

The Germans may not think Rommel is a hero but there is no doubt a lot of the Southerners see some of the confederates as heroes. Maybe this is due to poverty and too many people compensating for a lack of meaning in their lives.

Anyway, if statues are to come down, riots are not the way to do it. We will see what Biden does if he wins. I suspect when his time comes, he will condemn the knocking of statues.

ohnonotgmail

jackboy wrote: »

You are right, but politicians start wars and then soldiers have to fight them. A lot of the confederate military leaders were not more evil than a lot of the union military leaders.

The Germans may not think Rommel is a hero but there is no doubt a lot of the Southerners see some of the confederates as heroes. Maybe this is due to poverty and too many people compensating for a lack of meaning in their lives.

Anyway, if statues are to come down, riots are not the way to do it. We will see what Biden does if he wins. I suspect when his time comes, he will condemn the knocking of statues.

it is not a question of evil. they resigned their commissions in the union army and fought against the union army. pretty much the definition of traitor.

Igotadose

jackboy wrote: »

You are right, but politicians start wars and then soldiers have to fight them. A lot of the confederate military leaders were not more evil than a lot of the union military leaders.

The Germans may not think Rommel is a hero but there is no doubt a lot of the Southerners see some of the confederates as heroes. Maybe this is due to poverty and too many people compensating for a lack of meaning in their lives.

Anyway, if statues are to come down, riots are not the way to do it. We will see what Biden does if he wins. I suspect when his time comes, he will condemn the knocking of statues.

You can be 100% certain that 'a lot of the Germans' saw Rommel as a hero, even after WWII. They simply had to be quiet because they lost and there was no attempt at rehabilitation/normalization like was done with the Confederacy.

Leopards can't change their spots.

Fr Tod Umptious

rossie1977 wrote: »

Sorry what..

Rommel is arguably one of the greatest military commanders in history but yet nobody views him as a hero.

Civil war was solely over slavery. Numerous states clearly outline slavery as key reason for leaving union, confederate constitution has a clause enshrining slavery forever.

In fact confederate vice president Alexander Stephens in a speech in 1861 said

No it wasn't

It was about states rights.

Sure slavery was front and center in the discussion about states rights but the union had no plans to emancipate slaves in the south at the start of the civil war, emancipation only came much later.

In 1861 Washington was not going to remove slavery from the existing slave states in the south.

It was about the rights of new states to decide themselves if they are to be slave states or free states and not have Washington decide for them.

Oddly enough it's happening again in the Trump era.

Liberal states like California and Massachusetts are pushing back against Washington when it comes to immigration etc, they are playing the states rights card in order to not do what Washington wants.

rossie1977

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

No it wasn't

It was about states rights.

Sure slavery was front and center in the discussion about states rights but the union had no plans to emancipate slaves in the south at the start of the civil war, emancipation only came much later.

In 1861 Washington was not going to remove slavery from the existing slave states in the south.

It was about the rights of new states to decide themselves if they are to be slave states or free states and not have Washington decide for them.

When South Carolina became first state in Union to leave the primary reason they gave was "an increasing hostility on the part of the non-slaveholding States to the Institution of Slavery".

History especially southern white conservatives might try to white-wash the reason for secession but it was clearly over slavery.

Oddly enough it's happening again in the Trump era.

Liberal states like California and Massachusetts are pushing back against Washington when it comes to immigration etc, they are playing the states rights card in order to not do what Washington wants.

No and here is the difference.

When the southern states left the Union they actually opposed state rights. They left because they were verimently against the northern states outlawing slavery.

California isn't going to leave the union just because say Kentucky says 'no more immigrants'.

timsey tiger

Quin_Dub wrote: »

What we are talking about is a country celebrating people that fought against them and sought to destroy them - Who the hell does that??

We do, or at least Leo etc al. were going to until there was a bit of a commotion and the whole virus thing.

threeball

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

No it wasn't

It was about states rights.

Sure slavery was front and center in the discussion about states rights but the union had no plans to emancipate slaves in the south at the start of the civil war, emancipation only came much later.

In 1861 Washington was not going to remove slavery from the existing slave states in the south.

It was about the rights of new states to decide themselves if they are to be slave states or free states and not have Washington decide for them.

Oddly enough it's happening again in the Trump era.

Liberal states like California and Massachusetts are pushing back against Washington when it comes to immigration etc, they are playing the states rights card in order to not do what Washington wants.

I think you are seeing a lot of history repeating itself but playing out in another part of the world. Its not inconceivable to see the the US disintegrate like the Roman empire with states or block of states forming alliances such are the economic disparities across the country. If that happens there's no guarantee it doesn't head towards aggression as the poor states get poorer and the rich richer. Just like Europe tore itself apart in the 30s, its very possible the US does the same 100years later.

timsey tiger

Igotadose wrote: »

You can be 100% certain that 'a lot of the Germans' saw Rommel as a hero, even after WWII. They simply had to be quiet because they lost and there was no attempt at rehabilitation/normalization like was done with the Confederacy.

Leopards can't change their spots.

Well, this is probably true, doesn't stop the deplorables trying to tell us that there were many fine people on the confederate side fighting for individual rights* or something.

* individual right to own slaves

The Tulsa rally apparently led to a spike.

https://twitter.com/AP/status/1280971561097482249?s=19

Timberrrrrrrr

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The Tulsa rally apparently led to a spike.

https://twitter.com/AP/status/1280971561097482249?s=19

Well I for one am shocked!

Danno

Deleted User wrote: »

The Tulsa rally apparently led to a spike.

https://twitter.com/AP/status/1280971561097482249?s=19

Trump must have been very busy holding rallies across vast parts of the USA where we see Covid-19 case increases.

Or, perhaps there was a very liberal backed protest dotted with riots, lootings and killings taking place in multiple US cities.

Nah, it was Trumps - barely attended - rally that is causing the Covid surge. :rolleyes:

greenfield21

Interesting section on bidens supply chain plan from an Irish perspective. Heck I'm surprised they didn't just name Ireland. Both biden and trump now seem to be on the same page re onshoring.

Paragraph below

"Ensure the U.S. tax code encourages on-shoring of pharmaceutical supply chains: Pharmaceutical offshoring has been heavily driven by tax code provisions that have encouraged companies to locate pharmaceutical production in low-tax countries even where those countries have labor and other costs comparable to the U.S. Biden will eliminate Trump Administration tax incentives for offshoring and pursue other tax code changes that will encourage pharmaceutical production in the U.S".

I doubt we will see any changes though...

https://joebiden.com/supplychains/

Overheal

Danno wrote: »

Trump must have been very busy holding rallies across vast parts of the USA where we see Covid-19 case increases.

Or, perhaps there was a very liberal backed protest dotted with riots, lootings and killings taking place in multiple US cities.

Nah, it was Trumps - barely attended - rally that is causing the Covid surge. :rolleyes:

In fact analysis has shown that the protests haven't led to a correlative spike in covid cases.

Sparked by the killing of George Floyd in police custody, the 2020 Black Lives Matter protests have brought a new wave of attention to the issue of inequality within criminal justice. However, many public health officials have warned that mass protests could lead to a reduction in social distancing behavior, spurring a resurgence of COVID-19. This study uses newly collected data on protests in 315 of the largest U.S. cities to estimate the impacts of mass protests on social distancing and COVID-19 case growth. Event-study analyses provide strong evidence that net stay-at-home behavior increased following protest onset, consistent with the hypothesis that nonprotesters’ behavior was substantially affected by urban protests. This effect was not fully explained by the imposition of city curfews. Estimated effects were generally larger for persistent protests and those accompanied by media reports of violence. Furthermore, we find no evidence that urban protests reignited COVID-19 case growth during the more than three weeks following protest onset. We conclude that predictions of broad negative public health consequences of Black Lives Matter protests were far too narrowly conceived.

https://www.nber.org/papers/w27408.pdf

Danno

Danno wrote: »

Trump must have been very busy holding rallies across vast parts of the USA where we see Covid-19 case increases.

Or, perhaps there was a very liberal backed protest dotted with riots, lootings and killings taking place in multiple US cities.

Nah, it was Trumps - barely attended - rally that is causing the Covid surge. :rolleyes:

The thing is, you don't actually have surges in the locations where there were protests. Eg Minnesota levels remained the same. But sure don't let the facts get in the way. Viruses behave differently outside plus a large proportion of protesters did wear masks.

Timberrrrrrrr

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Well I for one am shocked!

You must be the only one so:)

paul71

Dead tread, like Trumps campaign. Shaping up the be the biggest landslide since 1984.

nofiller69

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

No it wasn't

It was about states rights.

Its about slavery! = No its about states rights ! = States rights to keep slaves ! x 1000000.

This circular argument doesn't really help your point.

Timberrrrrrrr

Not seen many Trump fans in here recently, have they finally seen the way the wind is blowing?

Funny clip here of Trumps idea of US history.

But Biden is the one in decline

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtgzVARrPu4

Overheal

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Not seen many Trump fans in here recently, have they finally seen the way the wind is blowing?

Funny clip here of Trumps idea of US history.

But Biden is the one in decline

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=

I think they finally realized there was zero pull in going on about Biden isolating and campaigning from home after #BunkerBitch teargassed the clergy. In the time since, Biden has had to do very little but stay quiet while Trump makes a laughing stock of himself in interviews of his own making.

WALLACE: Hot enough for you here, Mr. President?

TRUMP: It’s hot. It’s about, well, sort of almost record breaking stuff.

WALLACE: You know, we wanted to do it inside. This is your choice.

TBF though this thread serves no real purpose, the other thread is a 2020 Election thread covering any and all candidates.

Igotadose

Overheal wrote: »

WALLACE: You know, we wanted to do it inside. This is your choice.

TBF though this thread serves no real purpose, the other thread is a 2020 Election thread covering any and all candidates.

I vote to ask a mod to delete this thread.

weisses

Igotadose wrote: »

I vote to ask a mod to delete this thread.

Locking it well suffice for me... I want the mental gymnastics displayed in this thread to be visible for eternity ...;)

MOH

Overheal wrote: »

In fact analysis has shown that the protests haven't led to a correlative spike in covid cases.



https://www.nber.org/papers/w27408.pdf

Isn't that saying that there wasn't a spike in cases after the protests because everyone else was staying at home?

That's like saying there was no spike in deaths after a surge in drink driving, because everyone else stayed off the roads. It doesn't mean the initial action wasn't highly irresponsible.