IONITY - charging / fees / tips

Cyrus

mp3guy wrote: »

Yeah really it's those with smaller batteries and extra long trips that get screwed over here.

or those with big batteried inefficient evs

Silent Running

So is this just another 'screw the paddies' thing. The prices on their website aren't anywhere near these figures. :mad:

https://www.maingau-energie.de/e-mobilit%C3%A4t/Autostrom-Tarif#preismodell


Although it looks like they're changing to a per minute and per kWh pricing model from 1/9/20

slave1

Black_Knight wrote: »

Very much selectable on the app for me. 64c, waiting for me to hit "start charge".

Interesting to see what price ESB come up with for their new 150kW (psyc! 75kW when a leaf shows up) chargers.

Nothing for me, I've no payment method setup, maybe that's it?
Just to be 100%, the chargepoint app as below?

MJohnston

Silent Running wrote: »

So is this just another 'screw the paddies' thing. The prices on their website aren't anywhere near these figures. :mad:

https://www.maingau-energie.de/e-mobilit%C3%A4t/Autostrom-Tarif#preismodell

You didn't scroll down

Silent Running

MJohnston wrote: »

You didn't scroll down

It looks like they're increasing their prices for other providers, and giving in on the Ionity price.

Sheep Shagger

Silent Running wrote: »

So is this just another 'screw the paddies' thing. The prices on their website aren't anywhere near these figures. :mad:

https://www.maingau-energie.de/e-mobilit%C3%A4t/Autostrom-Tarif#preismodell


Although it looks like they're changing to a per minute and per kWh pricing model from 1/9/20

It's quoting 73.11c per kw for Ionity which is what the email received today says?

ELM327

kanuseeme wrote: »

Get a Phev:D:D:D:D

No way , if I'm moving from tyhe tesla it's something like this


https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/ford-excursion-4x4-6-8l-v10/25671918

MJohnston

Silent Running wrote: »

It looks like they're increasing their prices for other providers, and giving in on the Ionity price.

Ionity isn't an Irish-only system though, so it's not "screw the paddies" as you suggested.

Silent Running

MJohnston wrote: »

Ionity isn't an Irish-only system though, so it's not "screw the paddies" as you suggested.

Yes, my profuse apologies to all who read the post.

Sheep Shagger

Only use Ionity once or twice a year when doing a big trip so won't affect me much - home charge or use free non esb chargers otherwise.

Black_Knight

slave1 wrote: »

Nothing for me, I've no payment method setup, maybe that's it?
Just to be 100%, the chargepoint app as below?

Correct. Screenshot of mine below. I've no payment method set either. Just downloaded and registered today.


create image url

KCross

The more people who say its a ridiculous price and refuse to use Ionity the better.... more space for the rest of us!

slave1

I don't think you'll have any issue with queues at Ionity, you can have them all to yourself

ewj1978

yeah, say I use 25kwh to get to the one in Kill. Thats 150km for €18.47 or €12.31 per 100km.
Its 125.6 next door to me for unleaded, So thats close to 10L/100km.

Feck that.

Rotary939

slave1 wrote: »

Nothing for me, I've no payment method setup, maybe that's it?
Just to be 100%, the chargepoint app as below?

Try changing your filter (three dot icon on top right of map screen) to include "DC Fast -Combo" and Ionity chargers will appear. Did for me anyway

Kramer

Kramer wrote: »

It was apparent weeks ago Maingau's price would rise as they were the last MSP offering a reduced rate. It's hugely disappointing though that there will be no reasonable rate for Ionity charging.

I posted that three weeks ago - I had a premonition :pac:.

It's mad though - put in huge & costly infrastructure & then price it to ensure no one will use it.
Imagine how CCS EV owners felt, short on charge, passing by banks of Tesla superchargers, all unused, while they crawled along to the next, single ECars fast charger, praying it wasn't broken, ICEd or blocked by a Leaf.

It'll be the same now, passing by 4 stall Ionity chargers, unused, as they are so ridiculously expensive.

Backwards we're going, backwards I tell you .

My next car will likely be a 3 litre straight 6 PHEV.

kanuseeme

ELM327 wrote: »

No way , if I'm moving from tyhe tesla it's something like this


https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/ford-excursion-4x4-6-8l-v10/25671918

That's not what I had in mind, I was thinking of a more like BMW 5 series, X5 xDrive45e or a Mercedes GLE 350 de.

If your going that way I'd suggest this https://www.usadscenter.com/2002-Ford-Excursion-Pawtucket-214087 , easy to find parking in the empty ionity bays.:D:D:D

Kramer

Kramer wrote: »

My next car will likely be a 3 litre straight 6 PHEV.

kanuseeme wrote: »

That's not what I had in mind, I was thinking of a more like BMW 5 series, X5 xDrive45e

:cool:.

An E-Tron, 30kWh/100km wouldn't be unreasonable on a motorway run at 120km/h.
At Ionity, that's 22c/km :eek:

That's equivalent to 18l/100km in an ICE or 15mpg :eek:.

kanuseeme

If I had Ionity on my property, I would be looking for another service provider like easygo

irishgrover

Really struggling to see how they will remain commercially viable......
Also they are going to give fecking ecars notions about what they can charge for their 150 chargers..
So all in all, bad news, even if you don't use em

10-10-20

kanuseeme wrote: »

If I had Ionity on my property, I would be looking for another service provider like easygo

Well, as per the email last week, EasyGo were looking for new sites to install on... We now have 4 candidate locations: Kill, Cashel, Gorey and Stamullen!

All come with 150kW capability (underused at this time).

Busman Paddy Lasty

FFS. No idea what Ionity are playing at just as the sites are getting busy.

Used Cashel twice last week totalling 65.4 kWh. Would not do that at the higher price. There was another EV charging each time. Some business ought to be better than no business.

Kramer

irishgrover wrote: »

Really struggling to see how they will remain commercially viable......

I don't think they want Ionity as a viable, stand alone entity.
I think they want to use it as an exclusive addon/incentive to sell their brand of cars, just like Tesla.

This is the problem with the private market. Let's say Easygo or another entity wants to compete with Ionity on a busy route - say the Naas road approaching Dublin.
They spend hundreds of thousand of Euros on an installation, offer charging at 50c/kWh - Ionity immediately drop their price to 20c/kWh & keep it there until the competition go broke.
They have no commercial imperative to operate at a profit if they are solely driven by increasing car sales from their parent companies - VW, Audi, BMW etc.

Yes, a recurring subscription model - that's what all companies want - just like BMW tried with Apple Carplay & Tesla do with maps etc.

MJohnston

It's worth saying nothing has changed about Ionity's pricing model since January. This is a change in Maingau's pricing model. I'm not saying it's any less crazy that Ionity did that back in January, but this has long since been bedded in.

eddhorse

MJohnston wrote: »

It's worth saying nothing has changed about Ionity's pricing model since January. This is a change in Maingau's pricing model. I'm not saying it's any less crazy that Ionity did that back in January, but this has long since been bedded in.

Is Ionity not also 79c gross per kWh?

They won't pay for their fancy network with no customers

Kramer

eddhorse wrote: »

Is Ionity not also 79c gross per kWh?

They won't pay for their fancy network with no customers

Tesla hubs here must have cost hundred of thousands of Euros & are largely idle, most of the time. 10 stalls+ per location & they charge just €0.29/kWh.

They are still largely empty most of the time & certainly wouldn't be profitable if they were a stand alone entity.

Ionity are simply following suit IMO.

Back to ECars 50kW single chargers I go .

eddhorse

Kramer wrote: »

Tesla hubs here must have cost hundred of thousands of Euros & are largely idle, most of the time. 10 stalls+ per location & they charge just €0.29/kWh.

They are still largely empty most of the time & certainly wouldn't be profitable if they were a stand alone entity.

Ionity are simply following suit IMO.

Back to ECars 50kW single chargers I go .

Tesla charge points are there also as a selling point for the cars.
Ionity are there to make money.

Kramer

eddhorse wrote: »

Tesla charge points are there also as a selling point for the cars.

Yes. Allegedly the cost of providing these is baked into the initial car's cost.

eddhorse wrote: »

Ionity are there to make money.

Well they won't at 79c/kWh .

Ionity, it seems to me, are now fulfilling the exact same function as Tesla charging hubs - to facilitate sales of EVs from their parent car manufacturers.
They'll also facilitate monthly, charging access subscriptions, for said manufacturers, Audi etc.

Ionity isn't an independent charging network - it's a component of German car manufacturers.

KCross

eddhorse wrote: »

Tesla charge points are there also as a selling point for the cars.
Ionity are there to make money.

I dont know about that. You believe Ionity will be profitable?
Its going to be a loss making venture for quite some time.

markpb

slave1 wrote: »

A true nail into the coffin, just got email Maingau prices for Ionity going to 73.11cent/kWh from September 1st.
Ionity charge points will be well and truly freed up (and I've never seen a car charging at one ever!!)

Ionity on M8 at Cashel had two cars (including mine) on Wednesday afternoon. Ionity on the M11 near Gorey had three cars (including mine) on Saturday afternoon. ECars had a Leaf charging at the 50kW charger so 3/4 and 1/2 in use.

They’re definitely getting some use and came in very handy on my recent holiday but if the price doubles, I wouldn’t bother.

liamog

eddhorse wrote: »

Tesla charge points are there also as a selling point for the cars.
Ionity are there to make money.

Based on the public pricing structure, Ionity doesn't appear to be intended to make money. It appears to be structured to help sell charging memberships alongside EVs from the member manufacturers.

eddhorse

liamog wrote: »

Based on the public pricing structure, Ionity doesn't appear to be intended to make money. It appears to be structured to help sell charging memberships alongside EVs from the member manufacturers.

Plausible way of keeping the spots empty alright for the member manufacturers who have cut a better deal.

liamog

eddhorse wrote: »

Plausible way of keeping the spots empty alright for the member manufacturers who have cut a better deal.

I can see roughly where they are coming from. The head of Groupe PSA was asked about joining Ionity and said

“We are not in the business of making highways. We are not in the business of making roads. We are not in the business of making petrol stations. We are not in the business of making charging networks.”
“If the people’s representatives have voted for electric vehicles, they have to fund the investment of the charge network”
“At the end of the day, car makers will not invest in charging networks because they’re not sure that this is the right technology. Why? Because it’s not their choice, it’s the choice of the parliaments.”

https://www.driving.co.uk/news/business/tavares-why-should-peugeot-pay-electric-car-chargers/

I can see why you would want to control access based on who's invested. In an ideal world we'd see Tesla and Ionity join up to offer mutual access, I believe Tesla's offer to allow other manufacturers to invest in, and provide access to the supercharger network was rejected for branding reasons.

redcup342

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=114362098&postcount=56

Bad News for you guys in Ireland, I guess those Ionity Chargers will be empty again.

quietsailor

MJohnston wrote: »

Can't fill up with diesel or petrol at home though, I suppose is the point.

Has the law changed around storing diesel or petrol at home? When I was small my father used to have a 1000Litre tank of diesel for the car and we'd have kept 20Litres of petrol in one of the army metal cans with a lockable spout

Black_Knight

redcup342 wrote: »

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=114362098&postcount=56

Bad News for you guys in Ireland, I guess those Ionity Chargers will be empty again.

Not just Ireland, and if you read above we've been discussing it since yesterday

redcup342

Black_Knight wrote: »

Not just Ireland, and if you read above we've been discussing it since yesterday

Well it kind of is really, you guys only have eCars as a viable alternative.

I'm still getting 37 cents / kWh on all Rapids except Ionity (there's lots of them)

Ionity stalls were empty before over here, they'll just go back to empty again

The Dutch for example don't really care all that much about Ionity since they have Fastned (better than Ionity)

You're a bit funked in Ireland, no competition at all.

Thierry12

redcup342 wrote: »

Well it kind of is really, you guys only have eCars as a viable alternative.

I'm still getting 37 cents / kWh on all Rapids except Ionity (there's lots of them)

Ionity stalls were empty before over here, they'll just go back to empty again

The Dutch for example don't really care all that much about Ionity since they have Fastned (better than Ionity)

You're a bit funked in Ireland, no competition at all.

Those millions in EU grants and richest automakers in the world financing obviously wasnt enough to stop that 100% increase

MJohnston

quietsailor wrote: »

Has the law changed around storing diesel or petrol at home? When I was small my father used to have a 1000Litre tank of diesel for the car and we'd have kept 20Litres of petrol in one of the army metal cans with a lockable spout

No idea, but you’d still have to get that diesel/petrol from a petrol station at petrol station prices, is my point

innrain

Electrify America founded in the aftermath of the dieselgate by the same or about, has it pricing structure to deter the use of EVs



At Ionity in 35 mins it would charge my car about 40kWh. which is about 270 km drive
At EA assuming the middle tariff that would cost about 22 dollars. With 22 USD one can buy about 25 l of petrol in California. Worth to mention that in the same state electricity is cheaper than in Ireland.

We were naive to think they've created Ionity or Electrify America for all good reasons.
It was good while it lasted though. At least we should learn and next time when they'd be caught red handed, should not get away so cheaply.

liamog

50c/min for 125kW is 24c/kWh, that's cheaper than eCars, can't see how that's a discouragement.

innrain

liamog wrote: »

50c/min for 125kW is 24c/kWh, that's cheaper than eCars, can't see how that's a discouragement.

That pricing is in a market where 1l of petrol <80c of a dollar and average price for 1kWh is a bit more that 10c of a dollar.

MJohnston

Again—you can't compare charging network prices directly to the cost of fuel at filling stations.

An ICE driver will get 100% of their fuel at filling stations.
Most EV drivers will get far less than 100% of their electric at charging stations.

liamog

innrain wrote: »

That pricing is in a market where 1l of petrol <80c of a dollar and average price for 1kWh is a bit more that 10c of a dollar.

Tesla charge $0.28 per kWh in the US, are you also now of the opinion that Tesla are pricing superchargers to discourage people from switching to EVs, presumably to protect their ICE business too.

innrain

If you would believe the mission statements of the two companies cited
https://ionity.eu/en/about.html
https://www.electrifyamerica.com/about-us/
you would think that they refer to all and not most drivers. But at the end of the day they are private companies and they can decide their pricing as they wish. So far this month my Maingau bill stands at 76 and it would probably will reach 100. September coming I and lots other CCS users would think twice before plugging at Ionity which would hurt CHAdeMO fellow users who don't even have the expensive option.

kanuseeme

MJohnston wrote: »

Again—you can't compare charging network prices directly to the cost of fuel at filling stations.

Most ice drivers will, part of the email Ecars sent out explaining their pricing was a comparison between a diesel 1.6 ford focus and a leaf, their justification of the price was that it would be 35% cheaper to use a leaf on their network compared to the focus.

This is really a step back for BEV,s Ionity was touted as the ideal network with no chademo and super fast charging speeds,

liamog

kanuseeme wrote: »

This is really a step back for BEV,s Ionity was touted as the ideal network with no chademo and super fast charging speeds,

I can't say I'm that surprised, maybe it will finally answer the question for people who thought that Ionity was an international charging company, and not a charging network to enable the manufactures to sell cars (with a charging subscription).

If I could pay 80c/kWh to charge my car at a Tesla Supercharger, I'd be delighted as for those rare occasions when I need it would really make a difference.

liamog

KCross wrote: »

Maybe it highlights the real cost of these networks

It's like the example from earlier in The Netherlands, Fastned's walk up price is 59c/kWh.

Black_Knight

KCross wrote: »

EV drivers will need to get used to these prices and ensure they buy an EV with the appropriate battery size for them that limits their reliance on high powered rapids.

Exactly. It's always been said here "don't buy a car that will rely on the public network". Mostly because of reliability, but also because of costs. I won't use public charging too often, and when I do I'll likely use the cheapest fast charger that's convenient to my trip (Ioniq battery size doesn't really warrant the faster speeds of ionity for the additional cost). As our family grows and we upgrade to a bigger EV (with bigger battery) i'll likely not need to fast charge half as much, but when that time comes i'll do the maths and see how much time I save using Ionity vs ESB. For the handful of times a year I might need to use Ionity I won't notice the cost.

Kramer

KCross wrote: »

EV drivers will need to get used to these prices and ensure they buy an EV with the appropriate battery size for them that limits their reliance on high powered rapids.

So you're saying EV motorway motoring or regular long distance travelling should be within the sole purview of the more affluent then, i.e. those who can afford to buy 80/90/100kWh cars, at upwards of €100,000?

That's not going to help the environment in the move to greener means of transport.

:P.