NBP part II

Orebro

So I presume we hold our breaths today and wait to see what the Gov/Richard Brutons response to this is? Let’s hope they see this as the ambush it is and push ahead with the signing.

The Cush

Orebro wrote: »

So I presume we hold our breaths today and wait to see what the Gov/Richard Brutons response to this is? Let’s hope they see this as the ambush it is and push ahead with the signing.

Committee recommendations are non binding, of course the Dept and government will respectfully consider the recommendations and respond and then file it beside the PAC's last report.

Other big issues to be dealt with next month when the Dáil returns, Brexit, cervical check, public services card etc.

clohamon

Recommendations as related by Examiner.
https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/--945170.html

• a three-month external independent review by an expert “with international experience” should take place into the Government’s existing broadband plan, its €3bn cost, and tendering process
• this review should be given the right to recommend a universal service obligation, which would ensure any broadband system remains in public ownership
• it should also be allowed to recommend directly awarding a new contract to ESB or Eir to allow either firm to provide broadband at a fraction of the existing €3bn predicted cost, after Eir claimed earlier this year it could provide the service for around €1bn
• a full cost-benefit analysis into the National Broadband Plan should take place before any contract with Granahan McCourt is signed
• and that the Government’s previous broadband review by Peter Smyth should be “updated” within a month due to fresh evidence “which emerged linking Frank McCourt with the Granahan McCourt bid”.

Difficult to see where the testimony of KPMG, Analysys Mason, PWC, Eircom, ESB ComReg, DCCAE has been absorbed.

As far as I could see, the level of attendance at the meetings was abysmal. And the European Commission were seemingly never asked to attend or submit an opinion.

westyIrl

This is Timmy on Clare FM following vote (nothing new)

https://www.mixcloud.com/ClareFMNewsSports/timmy-dooley-speaking-to-clare-fms-james-mulhall-on-national-broadband-plan-review/

Reading through the recommendations, it should be quite easy for the Dept/Govt to respond and debunk most if not the entirety of them. For example, since when does a USO ensure infrastructure remains in public ownership?

Trying not to sound disrespectful or pretentious but I'd have thought a committee would come up with something more substantial, competent and constructive after 16 weeks.

Jim

The Cush

https://www.thejournal.ie/broadband-plan-contract-4776601-Aug2019/

- Communications Committee 70 page report to be published next week.

- One of the only recommendations not adopted by the committee was a proposal from Fine Gael members to sign the contract and to roll-out the network as soon as possible.

government sources have hit back at Fianna Fail’s position to carry out a review, stating that nothing new will be discovered.

“When the NBP was announced back in May, the opposition claimed they had an alternative that would be cheaper for the taxpayer and deliver broadband to rural Ireland more swiftly.

“After months of hearings, the opposition’s big plan is to delay the roll out, and instead commission more reports, and hire more consultants.

“It’s proof positive that there is no better plan,” they said.

BarryM

rodge123 wrote: »

Explain what’s “throwback ireland” about never giving a certain party a vote again based on them scuppering a plan that is very important to you?

You are probably too young.... but it was common that the 'head of the household' dictated how the voters in the house voted. I thought/think it is no longer the case.

Nothing to do with NBP.

rodge123

BarryM wrote: »

You are probably too young.... but it was common that the 'head of the household' dictated how the voters in the house voted. I thought/think it is no longer the case.

Nothing to do with NBP.

So you’re implying I have that much power to influence my friends vote as well as members of my household?
Didn’t occur to you that maybe they are all equally annoyed and can make up their own minds?!
Seen as we are jumping to wild assumptions, here’s one for you - you must be an old school ardent life long FF voter that’s upset people can see right through Timmy’s/FF stance on the NBP. Eye rolls x 100!!

careless sherpa

westyIrl wrote: »

This is Timmy on Clare FM following vote (nothing new)

https://www.mixcloud.com/ClareFMNewsSports/timmy-dooley-speaking-to-clare-fms-james-mulhall-on-national-broadband-plan-review/

Reading through the recommendations, it should be quite easy for the Dept/Govt to respond and debunk most if not the entirety of them. For example, since when does a USO ensure infrastructure remains in public ownership?

Trying not to sound disrespectful or pretentious but I'd have thought a committee would come up with something more substantial, competent and constructive after 16 weeks.

Jim

I thought they would have put Timmy into the attic after his act of national sabotage regarding Brexit. The man is a serious liability

clohamon

The Cush wrote: »

https://www.thejournal.ie/broadband-plan-contract-4776601-Aug2019/

- Communications Committee 70 page report to be published next week.
government sources have hit back at Fianna Fail’s position to carry out a review, stating that nothing new will be discovered.

“After months of hearings, the opposition’s big plan is to delay the roll out, and instead commission more reports, and hire more consultants.

Seems like someone would have to pay for these consultants. I'm guessing the Committee doesn't have the power to employ consultants.

The Cush

clohamon wrote: »

Seems like someone would have to pay for these consultants. I'm guessing the Committee doesn't have the power to employ consultants.

FF have a liking for consultant reports, Micheal Martin had lots of them done when he was health minister.

clohamon

The Cush wrote: »

FF have a liking for consultant reports, Micheal Martin had lots of them done when he was health minister.

Yes, but would he blow €25-€50K of party money on it?

westyIrl

clohamon wrote: »

Yes, but would he blow €25-€50K of party money on it?

Not a hope. That's why they are only recommending it be done so the Govt would commission it. It's just pure politics at this stage. If the Govt make a mess of the NBP FF can say we told you so and if its a success FF will say it was because of them keeping FG in check. Sadly, nothing occurring at the moment is for the timely delivery of the NBP. As rodge123 said above, it's all too easy to see through Timmy & FF's stance on this.

BarryM

rodge123 wrote: »

So you’re implying I have that much power to influence my friends vote as well as members of my household?
Didn’t occur to you that maybe they are all equally annoyed and can make up their own minds?!
Seen as we are jumping to wild assumptions, here’s one for you - you must be an old school ardent life long FF voter that’s upset people can see right through Timmy’s/FF stance on the NBP. Eye rolls x 100!!

Please calm down :cool:, it was a 'joke' remark, fell on deaf ears.....

bye, back to the subject of the thread......

Orebro

The roadshow is continuing regardless of the noise being made from Timmy and his merry band of mis-informed muppets:

http://www.westmeathexaminer.ie/2019/08/22/e47-million-to-be-invested-in-westmeath-under-national-broadband-plan/

I might go to the Ploughing myself if the announcement is imminent!

clohamon

Orebro wrote: »

The roadshow is continuing regardless of the noise being made from Timmy and his merry band of mis-informed muppets:

http://www.westmeathexaminer.ie/2019/08/22/e47-million-to-be-invested-in-westmeath-under-national-broadband-plan/

I might go to the Ploughing myself if the announcement is imminent!

Nearly all the counties' investments have been re-announced in the last few weeks. There are minimal differences since May 7th except maybe Kerry -€10M and Meath +€10M.

The Cush

Kinda recycled news from last March - Government spends more than €25m on consultancy fees for National Broadband Plan

Sir Timmy & Co want to spend more

Members of the committee also voted for the government to commission an external and independent review on whether the current proposal is value for money.

Fianna Fáil’s Communications spokesperson Timmy Dooley said this week that an independent expert, from outside the State, who has expertise in EU law as well as broadband network provision should carry out the review.

He did not believe that someone from one of the established consultancy firms, often used to carry out reviews into government matters, such as the national broadband plan, should be asked to do the review.

“The consultancy fees spent by government on their botched National Broadband Plan is disgraceful but unsurprising. They have spent over €25 million of taxpayers’ money for the private sector to recommend a flawed privatisation model that will see €3 billion transferred from the public purse to private shareholders.

clohamon

The Cush wrote: »

Kinda recycled news from last March - Government spends more than €25m on consultancy fees for National Broadband Plan

Sir Timmy & Co want to spend more

The suggestion in the article that they would not compensate NBI if the contract were to be cancelled is not credible. It would not have been possible for NBI to engage staff or sub-contractors, or order kit, if there was no commitment from DCCAE. The damage to all future procurement from cancellation without compensation would be hard to estimate. I guess a lot hangs on the word "obligation"

The letter from Donohoe clarifies that if the government walks away from the contract with the preferred bidder, “there is no obligation to reimburse” the bidder, “regardless of whether or not the procurement results in the award of a contract”.

Update:

John McGurk (yes, I know) refers to the letter and defends gap-funding here.
https://t.co/Bgc9ZNDjNJ

westyIrl

Minister hits out at proposal to recommend re-opening the broadband

https://www.newstalk.com/news/minister-hits-proposal-recommend-re-opening-broadband-process-897547

Not news really but it gives a good indication as to what the Dept/Government will be doing with the Committee recommendations.

Jim

The Cush

Communications Committee report launch next Tuesday

Tue, 27 Aug 2019

12.00 Joint Committee on Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Audio Visual Room, LH 2000

Report Launch: an investigation to examine the National Broadband Plan process thus far and how best to proceed and the best means to roll out rural broadband

tsue921i8wljb3

Emmanuel Lemon Louse wrote: »

Would NBI be willing to enter a contract with the scope of the intervention area still uncertain? I don't believe so. Anyway, has any deadline been met in this interminable process? I won't believe it is happening until I see evidence of NBI putting fibre on poles.

As expected, the contract signing has been delayed (yet again). It may not happen now before the budget which is announced on October 8th.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/ireland/broadband-deal-signing-with-granahan-mccourt-set-to-be-delayed-for-month-rt5dbq3hh?region=ie&t=ie

The Cush

Emmanuel Lemon Louse wrote: »

As expected, the contract signing has been delayed (yet again). It may not happen now before the budget which is announced on October 8th.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/ireland/broadband-deal-signing-with-granahan-mccourt-set-to-be-delayed-for-month-rt5dbq3hh?region=ie&t=ie

So, delayed due to the extended mapping consultation

The signing of the state’s €2.9bn national broadband contract will be delayed after the Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment added a month-long extension to a consultation process required under EU state aid regulations.
…
the final map of properties to be covered by the contract cannot be completed until the department establishes if commercial broadband providers intend serving any of the 540,000 homes, farms and businesses in the provisional “intervention region”. EU state-aid rules require governments to prove there has been market failure to service properties before intervention is approved.

Last Friday was the original deadline for submissions to the department in the state-aid consultation process but operators were notified on Tuesday that the deadline was being extended to September 20. This means the contract is unlikely to be signed before September 30, as the map will have to be redrawn and the EU will have to approve it. The signing may not happen before the budget on October 8.

The department said: “To allow sufficient time to participate in the consultation, the deadline for submissions has been extended.”

At least 40,000 properties are expected to be withdrawn from the map, which currently covers 1.1m people.

Communications company Eir has told the department it can make high-speed fibre available to 40,000 rural premises currently included on the intervention map. Siro, a rival company, says it may deploy broadband in infill urban sites also on the map.

KOR101

This means the contract is unlikely to be signed before September 30, as the map will have to be redrawn and the EU will have to approve it. The signing may not happen before the budget on October 8.

Any guesses as to who asked twice for the extension? Maybe their is some technical cost advantage for EIR in nailing down the additional premises for themselves.

Mortelaro

What happens to the properties withdrawn?
My own road is 11kms end to end
8kms approx is fibred from a rural exchange stopping exactly at the Wicklow wexford border on the road
Then theres no fibre until you meet the fibre coming out from the Arklow town end of that 11km stretch
Theres approximately 2kms on the road in the dark,that's all cable that's needed to finish that road
The cable coming from the rural exchange is coming along 8kms of the road but the fibre from the town just goes 1km or less beyond the town boundary and stops
Theres surely plenty play to bring that the other 2kms? Plenty houses and farms in that stretch
It spurs down a more minor road several kilometres instead

celticbhoy27

Mortelaro wrote: »

What happens to the properties withdrawn?
My own road is 11kms end to end
8kms approx is fibred from a rural exchange stopping exactly at the Wicklow wexford border on the road
Then theres no fibre until you meet the fibre coming out from the Arklow town end of that 11km stretch
Theres approximately 2kms on the road in the dark,that's all cable that's needed to finish that road
The cable coming from the rural exchange is coming along 8kms of the road but the fibre from the town just goes 1km or less beyond the town boundary and stops
Theres surely plenty play to bring that the other 2kms? Plenty houses and farms in that stretch
It spurs down a more minor road several kilometres instead

That scenario is in every county in Ireland. TBH 40000 is an understatement that eir could comfortably reach. If they do insist on providing fiber (eir) to these areas they better be given a short time frame to complete. Not the same as the nbp circa 5 years

KOR101

‘Overly Complex, Restrictive, Redundant And Unfit For Purpose’

In a highly critical report into the National Broadband Plan (NBP) seen by The Sunday Business Post, members of the cross-party Oireachtas Communications Committee warned that public money would be used to subsidise its roll-out in areas where it wasn’t needed.

The report, which will be published on Tuesday, found that the procurement process run by the Department of Communications was “overly complex, restrictive, redundant and unfit for purpose”, despite being well intentioned.

It said the terms of the tender were too narrow and excluded “other viable options”.

A government source disputed the findings and said that if the recommendations were followed it would add a further siginificant delay to the project.

https://www.broadsheet.ie/2019/08/26/overly-complex-restrictive-redundant-and-unfit-for-purpose/

Johnboy1951

roll-out in areas where it wasn’t needed

Maybe not presently ..... but can any of them predict the future?
If the service is available development is not hindered and so will likely happen in those places it now cannot.

careless sherpa

KOR101 wrote: »

This means the contract is unlikely to be signed before September 30, as the map will have to be redrawn and the EU will have to approve it. The signing may not happen before the budget on October 8.

Any guesses as to who asked twice for the extension? Maybe their is some technical cost advantage for EIR in nailing down the additional premises for themselves.

If not signed before halloween you would imagine that brexit is going to sink the entire enterprise.

Johnboy1951

careless sherpa wrote: »

If not signed before halloween you would imagine that brexit is going to sink the entire enterprise.

I hope not ...... it is going to be a long drawn out affair at best.

KOR101

Too much pessimism on here. They're too dug in on this to back out now, and the finish line is in sight.

careless sherpa

KOR101 wrote: »

Too much pessimism on here. They're too dug in on this to back out now, and the finish line is in sight.

That is optimistic as brexit could be a massive economic shock. Although the government have said that the border area will be hit very hard and not providing broadband services would only compound that so even if it is a hard brexit it still might work out